NXT Thread II

[Ruzious]

I thought Cole was an inch or so taller than AJ Styles and about the same height as Jericho - though I could be wrong. He could stand to add some muscle - as Styles seems to have done since joining WWE.

[improper]

NXT has lost a lot of spark for me. These three guys who have just come in, I have no idea who they are. I don't care for the current champ. Asuka was great fun, but she's gone now too.

You don't know who Adam Cole (BAY BAY) is?

[skbucks1985]

Cole's probably got around half an inch on AJ, but he'll be noticeably shorter than Jericho. If they think adding muscle would help him stay healthy going through the wear and tear on the road when he gets to the main roster or it'll in some way make him a better worker, by all means. But if its strictly for cosmetic reasons, he should stay the same size. Cole being able to believably compete, as a heel, with guys 6+ inches taller than him and/or 50+ pounds heavier than him (which with the exception of Styles and Balor, almost every other high-card main roster guy fits one or both of those two criteria) is a very high bar to clear and I don't think putting on a little muscle makes that task easier in any real way. But if he's able to clear that bar and be believable against these types of guys, then I think his size becomes a strength because it provides as great a contrast as possible to everyone else in his position.

[Ruzious]

NXT has lost a lot of spark for me. These three guys who have just come in, I have no idea who they are. I don't care for the current champ. Asuka was great fun, but she's gone now too.

You don't know who Adam Cole (BAY BAY) is?

Speaking of which, notice that Seth Rollins has used that Bay Bay line several times over the last few weeks?

[Ruzious]

Cole's probably got around half an inch on AJ, but he'll be noticeably shorter than Jericho. If they think adding muscle would help him stay healthy going through the wear and tear on the road when he gets to the main roster or it'll in some way make him a better worker, by all means. But if its strictly for cosmetic reasons, he should stay the same size. Cole being able to believably compete, as a heel, with guys 6+ inches taller than him and/or 50+ pounds heavier than him (which with the exception of Styles and Balor, almost every other high-card main roster guy fits one or both of those two criteria) is a very high bar to clear and I don't think putting on a little muscle makes that task easier in any real way. But if he's able to clear that bar and be believable against these types of guys, then I think his size becomes a strength because it provides as great a contrast as possible to everyone else in his position.

I agree it's a difficult thing, but I think he's talented enough to clear that bar. Remember Tully Blanchard pulled it off even before being part of the 4 Horsemen - not so much with the WWE since he got himself kicked off the roster shortly after joining. 10 years ago, I'd have said Cole's too small for the WWE, but the WWE's adapted somewhat. Daniel Bryan's success made a big difference.

[skbucks1985]

Cole's probably got around half an inch on AJ, but he'll be noticeably shorter than Jericho. If they think adding muscle would help him stay healthy going through the wear and tear on the road when he gets to the main roster or it'll in some way make him a better worker, by all means. But if its strictly for cosmetic reasons, he should stay the same size. Cole being able to believably compete, as a heel, with guys 6+ inches taller than him and/or 50+ pounds heavier than him (which with the exception of Styles and Balor, almost every other high-card main roster guy fits one or both of those two criteria) is a very high bar to clear and I don't think putting on a little muscle makes that task easier in any real way. But if he's able to clear that bar and be believable against these types of guys, then I think his size becomes a strength because it provides as great a contrast as possible to everyone else in his position.

I agree it's a difficult thing, but I think he's talented enough to clear that bar. Remember Tully Blanchard pulled it off even before being part of the 4 Horsemen - not so much with the WWE since he got himself kicked off the roster shortly after joining. 10 years ago, I'd have said Cole's too small for the WWE, but the WWE's adapted somewhat. Daniel Bryan's success made a big difference.

You can definitely do it as a babyface and Cole's a good babyface. But he's best as a heel and being a small heel is really, really difficult to pull off from a psychology perspective. And look, Cole is as much of a complete package as you're going to get in the ring, on the mic and if you've ever seen interviews with him he's got an almost Cena-esque level of polish with the way he conducts himself. If he was 6 inches taller we'd be talking about him as a perennial WM main eventer. So if anyone can pull it off its him. And its why I'm glad his first program is with McIntyre because if he can talk the audience into believing that he can beat this guy and then be able to convincingly work heel against him, then he's answered that question sufficiently I think.

[iMoreland]

One big problem I've had with NXT recently is giving the title to whoever sat front row at the previous takeover, aka the biggest name possible (Roode, McIntyre). While I think Roode and McIntyre are great and both deserved the title, I wish they'd give the title to more homegrown guys. Velveteen Dream is the first guy that comes to mind, I'd love to see him get a mega push in NXT.

[Ruzious]

One big problem I've had with NXT recently is giving the title to whoever sat front row at the previous takeover, aka the biggest name possible (Roode, McIntyre). While I think Roode and McIntyre are great and both deserved the title, I wish they'd give the title to more homegrown guys. Velveteen Dream is the first guy that comes to mind, I'd love to see him get a mega push in NXT.

But would it be believable to have someone like Velveteen Dream champ when you have someone like McIntyre - who's got tons of experience and is recognized as one of the best in the world at what he does?

[skbucks1985]

One big problem I've had with NXT recently is giving the title to whoever sat front row at the previous takeover, aka the biggest name possible (Roode, McIntyre). While I think Roode and McIntyre are great and both deserved the title, I wish they'd give the title to more homegrown guys. Velveteen Dream is the first guy that comes to mind, I'd love to see him get a mega push in NXT.

This has been the "issue" with what we know as NXT since its been on. It started as, I think, a wwe.com show and was moved to the network when it was launched. And their first show on the network was Neville beating Bo Dallas for the title. Since then, there champions have been: Neville, Zayn, Owens, Balor, Joe, Nakamura, Roode and now McIntyre. All of those guys came in with a lot of accomplishments. Ultimately its occurred because of what Ruzious said, these are the best guys on the roster and that's why they're getting these spots.

There's a school of thought that this is what NXT should be, the finishing school. And the ex-athletes and body builders that they sign who have minimal to no experience should go the Matt Riddle route and make names for themselves on the Indies because for every Baron Corbin there's 25 guys that have either washed out of the system completely or just hang around the performance center with no real shot at getting a push on NXT TV much less the main roster.

[improper]

This has been the "issue" with what we know as NXT since its been on. It started as, I think, a wwe.com show and was moved to the network when it was launched. And their first show on the network was Neville beating Bo Dallas for the title. Since then, there champions have been: Neville, Zayn, Owens, Balor, Joe, Nakamura, Roode and now McIntyre. All of those guys came in with a lot of accomplishments. Ultimately its occurred because of what Ruzious said, these are the best guys on the roster and that's why they're getting these spots.

There's a school of thought that this is what NXT should be, the finishing school. And the ex-athletes and body builders that they sign who have minimal to no experience should go the Matt Riddle route and make names for themselves on the Indies because for every Baron Corbin there's 25 guys that have either washed out of the system completely or just hang around the performance center with no real shot at getting a push on NXT TV much less the main roster.

I personally am fully on board with NXT as the finishing school. WWE, as the wrestling promotion at the top of the business, shouldn't invest a lot of time and money to developing guys, which is a process that almost always takes years. For every Braun Strowman who gets thrown into the fire and develops amazingly fast, you'll get a hundred guys who just aren't ready for that spotlight and wilt. You burn a lot of money when you have dozens upon dozens of guys on your payroll who aren't earning.

I've said this before, but a better tactic for WWE, which is a company that basically every professional wrestlers aspires to work for at some point, is to sign guys as they are nearing the end of their twenties and have already spent a decade learning how to work and talk. When you go that route, you end up with guys like Kevin Owens who can immediately step in and be a main event guy. Kevin Owens' first night in NXT (first televised night, but you get the idea) saw him destroy his best friend and new NXT champ Sami Zayn, entering him straight into a title program. His first night on Raw saw him lay out John Cena, leading to his first win on the roster being over Cena on PPV. Yeah, they panicked and gave Cena two wins back, but if they were smarter and thought more long-term, they could have had Owens go over in that feud and he would have immediately been a credible main event guy right out of the gate.

I'm not saying they should develop no one, of course. If you have a chance to sign famous athletes who need to learn to work, go for it. Lock those guys down before they go elsewhere. Or if you find a physical specimen like Braun or that Lars guy in NXT and want to own him from the ground up, sure, sign him. I just think that, on a large scale, development shouldn't be something WWE should concern themselves with. They should use NXT to get indie guys familiar with the WWE fans and showcase what they can do before calling them up when a spot is available while also training twenty to thirty promising wrestlers behind the scenes and debuting them when they are ready or washing them out if it seems they'll never get there.

I think they should steer more of their developmental guys toward promotions like Evolve that they have a working relationship with and give those guys a shot at developing there, which will give them some nice indie cred as well.

[Ruzious]

This has been the "issue" with what we know as NXT since its been on. It started as, I think, a wwe.com show and was moved to the network when it was launched. And their first show on the network was Neville beating Bo Dallas for the title. Since then, there champions have been: Neville, Zayn, Owens, Balor, Joe, Nakamura, Roode and now McIntyre. All of those guys came in with a lot of accomplishments. Ultimately its occurred because of what Ruzious said, these are the best guys on the roster and that's why they're getting these spots.

There's a school of thought that this is what NXT should be, the finishing school. And the ex-athletes and body builders that they sign who have minimal to no experience should go the Matt Riddle route and make names for themselves on the Indies because for every Baron Corbin there's 25 guys that have either washed out of the system completely or just hang around the performance center with no real shot at getting a push on NXT TV much less the main roster.

I personally am fully on board with NXT as the finishing school. WWE, as the wrestling promotion at the top of the business, shouldn't invest a lot of time and money to developing guys, which is a process that almost always takes years. For every Braun Strowman who gets thrown into the fire and develops amazingly fast, you'll get a hundred guys who just aren't ready for that spotlight and wilt. You burn a lot of money when you have dozens upon dozens of guys on your payroll who aren't earning.

I've said this before, but a better tactic for WWE, which is a company that basically every professional wrestlers aspires to work for at some point, is to sign guys as they are nearing the end of their twenties and have already spent a decade learning how to work and talk. When you go that route, you end up with guys like Kevin Owens who can immediately step in and be a main event guy. Kevin Owens' first night in NXT (first televised night, but you get the idea) saw him destroy his best friend and new NXT champ Sami Zayn, entering him straight into a title program. His first night on Raw saw him lay out John Cena, leading to his first win on the roster being over Cena on PPV. Yeah, they panicked and gave Cena two wins back, but if they were smarter and thought more long-term, they could have had Owens go over in that feud and he would have immediately been a credible main event guy right out of the gate.

I'm not saying they should develop no one, of course. If you have a chance to sign famous athletes who need to learn to work, go for it. Lock those guys down before they go elsewhere. Or if you find a physical specimen like Braun or that Lars guy in NXT and want to own him from the ground up, sure, sign him. I just think that, on a large scale, development shouldn't be something WWE should concern themselves with. They should use NXT to get indie guys familiar with the WWE fans and showcase what they can do before calling them up when a spot is available while also training twenty to thirty promising wrestlers behind the scenes and debuting them when they are ready or washing them out if it seems they'll never get there.

I think they should steer more of their developmental guys toward promotions like Evolve that they have a working relationship with and give those guys a shot at developing there, which will give them some nice indie cred as well.

Or have their own lower level shows - like baseball has A ball, then AA, and then AAA. Newbie body builders/college football washouts go to A ball (with a cool re-naming). After a year or 2, they move up to AA (or use Evolve?). Then on to NXT when they're ready. Or they could have 2 NXT level groups and 2 Evolve level groups.

[Kembastockton]

When HHH signs these well known successes from other companies he knows that they can perform and bring in the crowds more than the big guy from the gym who thinks he can wrestle. Therefore, obviously these guys are going to be featured. The big guy from the gym probably would not sell out Takeover Brooklyn like Samoa Joe, Nakamora, and Roode did. The big guy from the gym is going to have to work twice as hard to prove he deserves a spot along side these guys. Guys like VD have talent, but they still have to make the most of their opportunities. Everybody needs to have that match that leaves everyone talking. So far I have forgotten about VD two minutes after he left the screen every time I have ever seen him.

[improper]

Or have their own lower level shows - like baseball has A ball, then AA, and then AAA. Newbie body builders/college football washouts go to A ball (with a cool re-naming). After a year or 2, they move up to AA (or use Evolve?). Then on to NXT when they're ready. Or they could have 2 NXT level groups and 2 Evolve level groups.

This is why I think NXT needs a midcard title. There are so many guys on the roster and only one NXT championship, and thus a lot of deserving guys never get to hold gold. I'd introduce a midcard title and alternate it back and forth between indie standouts and developmental guys.

[Dominator83]

This has been the "issue" with what we know as NXT since its been on. It started as, I think, a wwe.com show and was moved to the network when it was launched. And their first show on the network was Neville beating Bo Dallas for the title. Since then, there champions have been: Neville, Zayn, Owens, Balor, Joe, Nakamura, Roode and now McIntyre. All of those guys came in with a lot of accomplishments. Ultimately its occurred because of what Ruzious said, these are the best guys on the roster and that's why they're getting these spots.

There's a school of thought that this is what NXT should be, the finishing school. And the ex-athletes and body builders that they sign who have minimal to no experience should go the Matt Riddle route and make names for themselves on the Indies because for every Baron Corbin there's 25 guys that have either washed out of the system completely or just hang around the performance center with no real shot at getting a push on NXT TV much less the main roster.

I personally am fully on board with NXT as the finishing school. WWE, as the wrestling promotion at the top of the business, shouldn't invest a lot of time and money to developing guys, which is a process that almost always takes years. For every Braun Strowman who gets thrown into the fire and develops amazingly fast, you'll get a hundred guys who just aren't ready for that spotlight and wilt. You burn a lot of money when you have dozens upon dozens of guys on your payroll who aren't earning.

I've said this before, but a better tactic for WWE, which is a company that basically every professional wrestlers aspires to work for at some point, is to sign guys as they are nearing the end of their twenties and have already spent a decade learning how to work and talk. When you go that route, you end up with guys like Kevin Owens who can immediately step in and be a main event guy. Kevin Owens' first night in NXT (first televised night, but you get the idea) saw him destroy his best friend and new NXT champ Sami Zayn, entering him straight into a title program. His first night on Raw saw him lay out John Cena, leading to his first win on the roster being over Cena on PPV. Yeah, they panicked and gave Cena two wins back, but if they were smarter and thought more long-term, they could have had Owens go over in that feud and he would have immediately been a credible main event guy right out of the gate.

I'm not saying they should develop no one, of course. If you have a chance to sign famous athletes who need to learn to work, go for it. Lock those guys down before they go elsewhere. Or if you find a physical specimen like Braun or that Lars guy in NXT and want to own him from the ground up, sure, sign him. I just think that, on a large scale, development shouldn't be something WWE should concern themselves with. They should use NXT to get indie guys familiar with the WWE fans and showcase what they can do before calling them up when a spot is available while also training twenty to thirty promising wrestlers behind the scenes and debuting them when they are ready or washing them out if it seems they'll never get there.

I think they should steer more of their developmental guys toward promotions like Evolve that they have a working relationship with and give those guys a shot at developing there, which will give them some nice indie cred as well.

Couldn't agree more man. I love NXT the way it is, which is featuring the top Indy guys out there, and letting them put on great matches. I wouldn't change a thing

[tugs]

Sooooo...
"The Undisputed Era"...?

[improper]

Pete Dunne is such a great heel. I love how he teased going back in the ring to help Wolfgang, but then just grabbed his title and laughed.

[Pharaoh]

When HHH signs these well known successes from other companies he knows that they can perform and bring in the crowds more than the big guy from the gym who thinks he can wrestle. Therefore, obviously these guys are going to be featured. The big guy from the gym probably would not sell out Takeover Brooklyn like Samoa Joe, Nakamora, and Roode did.

Those guys get signed because NXT is no longer "developmental"!

It's a touring "brand", a "televised" product to rival the likes of TNA, LU, ROH, NJPW.

When they sign certain guys it's not necessarily to have them main eventing NXT - it's about locking them away from a rival show.

Obviously having the biggest names in the main events allows NXT to sell Takeover tickets but I think some dudes get signed to hurt the comp more than help WWE
Naka in particular, probably McIntyre to a certain extent

[WRau1]

Rumor that CFO are going to bring in another guy to go after the UK Championship. Wonder who that would be.

[Spens1]

Rumor that CFO are going to bring in another guy to go after the UK Championship. Wonder who that would be.

They got the best people in the UK right now (McIntyre, Dunne) and ZSJ is not coming. Unless they can somehow get Ospreay (which i doubt).

Joe Coffey perhaps?

[tugs]

Rumor that CFO are going to bring in another guy to go after the UK Championship. Wonder who that would be.

So CFO and not The Undisputed Era? I'm relieved.