WWE General Discussion II

[improper]

Yup.

That being said, I've still got a feeling Asuka's going to walk into SummerSlam with the SD title. If I'm wrong then this whole feud with Carmella has been a complete waste of time.

Not much of a consolation prize considering she shouldn't have lost to Charlotte in the first place, and certainly shouldn't have made to look like a f*cking fool against Carmella of all people, possibly the least credible champ ever.

[LLJ]

Yup.

That being said, I've still got a feeling Asuka's going to walk into SummerSlam with the SD title. If I'm wrong then this whole feud with Carmella has been a complete waste of time.

Not much of a consolation prize considering she shouldn't have lost to Charlotte in the first place, and certainly shouldn't have made to look like a f*cking fool against Carmella of all people, possibly the least credible champ ever.

You could make a reasonable argument that Asuka's streak had become a booking problem and Charlotte was the right person at the right time to end it. I don't like the way she tapped so quickly but having Asuka have something to shoot for down the line isn't necessarily a bad thing for her either.

MITB was horribly executed. No question. They should have protected her better, although I could see in Vince's mind that he might have seen it differently. Remember, this is a guy who thought Bobby could get over in that dumb angle he was in.

At any rate, they've definitely killed as much of the NXT Asuka as much as they could. Her survival on the main roster is up to her charisma and character work now. At least the crowds are still behind her. They turned on Bayley really quickly once the WWE messed her up.

There are people who think that Vince actually hates NXT baggage. Which is why when they get called up, he eventually strips each and every one of them of what made them famous on NXT. Roode, the 4 HW, Balor, Asuka's dominance. Triple H probably fumes whenever he does that. Vince apparently specifically instructed commentators NOT to mention NXT for Sanity's debut, too.

[Dominator83]

Doesn't really matter - he got eliminated for reasons over a period of time - presumably valid, and now people here just 3 years later are calling him the best young pro wrestler in the business. If you have different standards - that's fine. For me, it doesn't compute - at all.

If we're going by that standard, then do you still see Dolph Ziggler as a cheerleader?

I see absolutely no comparison - understanding that Ziggler was part of the Spirit Squad.

How about Derrick bateman transforming into a top 1 percenter??!

But seriously, I thought Patrick at the time was unjustly axed from the show. I thought he was a top guy out of that group. I mean sure he was a cocky SOB, but you kinda need that in this line of work, plus he backed it up with his skills. Him and Tanner (IIRC) were the top talents on that show

[Ruzious]

If we're going by that standard, then do you still see Dolph Ziggler as a cheerleader?

I see absolutely no comparison - understanding that Ziggler was part of the Spirit Squad.

How about Derrick bateman transforming into a top 1 percenter??!

But seriously, I thought Patrick at the time was unjustly axed from the show. I thought he was a top guy out of that group. I mean sure he was a cocky SOB, but you kinda need that in this line of work, plus he backed it up with his skills. Him and Tanner (IIRC) were the top talents on that show

Bateman was definitely more talented than Johnny Curtis - who still has a gig as Fandango, so I'm not very surprised. Didn't he beat Daniel Bryan during the "competition".

[improper]

There are people who think that Vince actually hates NXT baggage. Which is why when they get called up, he eventually strips each and every one of them of what made them famous on NXT. Roode, the 4 HW, Balor, Asuka's dominance. Triple H probably fumes whenever he does that. Vince apparently specifically instructed commentators NOT to mention NXT for Sanity's debut, too.

This is what makes it all the more frustrating when Vince just keeps tripping over his own d*ck into billion dollar TV deals. Like, Raw and Smackdown are generally regarded as terrible, something I think even the most die-hard fans here would admit, and yet networks are fighting for the rights to air them because they are simply multiple hours of original live content that the networks themselves don't have to produce. The quality matters much less than the quantity, which seems like WWE's mantra these days.

[The_Brecht]

Carmella isn't even that hot.

[improper]

Carmella isn't even that hot.

Yeah they slather so much make-up on her every night that she looks like a damn clown.

But she's blond and in shape, and that's really all that matters to Vince.

[LLJ]

The worst is that Carmella doesn't even really draw that much crowd reaction. They had to stick Ellsworth on her to get her some heat again. I know people will say that her mic skills are good, and for the Smackdown women she is objectively the best talker, but in the end you have to produce results. She's missing something crucial that crowds aren't connecting with. At least Alexa consistently gets reactions.

I wish they invested that much on Asuka and give her a mouthpiece, because she's somehow still over despite the crappy booking she's endured recently.

[iMoreland]

Asuka has never been interesting. Her whole NXT run was mostly predictable and stale. The undefeated streak was awful, it made everything difficult book around in NXT and on the main roster. She can't cut a promo. The only thing she has going for her is she's good in the ring and has a unique look.

[LLJ]

I always feel like when people say about foreigners "Can't cut a promo in english, no want" is actually code for "Just don't push foreigners."

For years they've called themselves "World Wrestling Entertainment" but has actually been really "American Wrestling Entertainment." If you push a foreigner and they get over to a significant degree (And Nakamura AND Asuka ARE over), then you get creative with the writing and work around the language barrier. Clearly these two have gotten over despite flawed english because of their ability to communicate their emotions with their faces and body language. This is something even many American wrestlers have yet to learn, that's why they are more over than many wrestlers who can speak *perfect* english.

This isn't the Attitude Era anymore. They've clearly changed the game up and have at least a desire to truly go international. And if they want to be successful in really bringing "the world" into the WWE, they (and their fans) need to change up their creative expectations and find ways to incorporate other nationalities instead of trying to jamhole them into the traditional tropes of long expository english monologues.

Nakamura and Asuka's pushes are interesting because it breaks established rules and defies past expectations of what types of people "should" be pushed. In the past, there was no way they'd ever get major title shots on a PPV because the rules were that foreigners shouldn't be pushed that high, shouldn't main event, and ESL wrestlers should only be used for comedy heels or just straight jobbing. I'm not surprised at the pushback I sometimes see online regarding their pushes, but I wonder how aware people are that it's actually less about them and more about getting upset at traditional rules of what constitutes a "good WWE wrestler" being broken.

NJPW allows their foreign wrestlers to say whatever and do whatever in their native language. They don't force them to be "more Japanese", they just let them be themselves. If the WWE *truly* wants to go international, they and their fans need to start accepting the idea of hearing a lot more languages on TV and being more of a melting pot of various wrestlers with varying degrees of english proficiency.

[Stanford]

WWE has been unanimously good for two straight weeks and insufferable whinging is at an all time high.

[loserX]

I don't even really understand the Carmella character. With Ellsworth, she's the always-cheating-heel, but without him, she's...what, exactly? An accent isn't a character.

Alexa Bliss may not be the best worker, but she's a great talker (always smooth) and she has perfected the mean girl/grown brat persona. Carmella is just really generic, not especially memorable in any way. I don't know if that's bad booking (quite likely) or personal limitations on her part.

[bestnamezRtaken]

I thought it would be fun to get old man Meltzer's opinion on the Dunne v Dream debate.

Read on Twitter

[Stanford]

I thought it would be fun to get old man Meltzer's opinion on the Dunne v Dream debate.

Read on Twitter

Cool! I agree.

[daoneandonly]

Yea the last couple of weeks have been solid. That said, raw needs the Universal Title back. I think the best storyline to do with lesnar now is to have him intentionally duck raw now that Strowman has the MITB, and make it more and mor eobvious as the weeks go by. Strowman needs to be the man to beat lesnar.

And Roode and lashley should both turn heel and can be Strowman's opponents at some point in his reign.

[improper]

WWE has been unanimously good for two straight weeks and insufferable whinging is at an all time high.

Well, I don't usually watch Raw or Smackdown (watched Smackdown last week because I knew that main event was gonna be great), so I mostly just go by reviews.

And for the talk of Raw being unanimously good, the 411 Csonka review of it gave it a 4.5, so maybe pump the brakes on the unanimous part. And I usually trust Csonka's ratings, as I find his views are typically pretty close to my own. Not always, as I think he often overrates NJPW matches, but most of the time.

From what I've seen, it seems like a show that had one really good match, a fun Braun segment, and not much else over the course of three hours.

[spykelee]

I didn't love Nakamura as a face but he's a tremendous heel. Especially for somebody who doesn't talk that well. That turn and execution has been perfect really.

Asuka I knew was going to lose to Charlotte and I think that was the right call. And for all I think that was the right call, I also thinks that rousey goes over charlotte at this Wrestlemania and that's the right call too.

Raw and smackdown have been a little better. Some guys are figuring out their characters better. Owens and braun are great together. Bayley really took it too Sasha. You've never really seen that from those two. That was a good segment. Ic rematch. Smackdown has rusev day and Daniel Bryan and miz and Joe... alot of those folks are in good programs atm.

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[skbucks1985]

I thought it would be fun to get old man Meltzer's opinion on the Dunne v Dream debate.

Read on Twitter

The answer to this question is based on the attributes a person most values. In Meltzer's case his answer is probably based on how he thinks Vince McMahon will evaluate the two guys.

And if that's Meltzer's thought process, he's absolutely right. When you look at the attributes and profiles of the types of guys WWE typically pushes, Dream fits the mold a lot more than Dunne does.

[LLJ]

I didn't love Nakamura as a face but he's a tremendous heel. Especially for somebody who doesn't talk that well. That turn and execution has been perfect really.

Asuka I knew was going to lose to Charlotte and I think that was the right call. And for all I think that was the right call, I also thinks that rousey goes over charlotte at this Wrestlemania and that's the right call too.

Raw and smackdown have been a little better. Some guys are figuring out their characters better. Owens and braun are great together. Bayley really took it too Sasha. You've never really seen that from those two. That was a good segment. Ic rematch. Smackdown has rusev day and Daniel Bryan and miz and Joe... alot of those folks are in good programs atm.

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I've heard that it's possible Charlotte could actually go over Rousey at WM35. Ronda's been hinting that she wants kids soon and there may be a deal in place for her to be built up to put over Charlotte and then have Ronda take a break.

[Ruzious]

Asuka has never been interesting. Her whole NXT run was mostly predictable and stale. The undefeated streak was awful, it made everything difficult book around in NXT and on the main roster. She can't cut a promo. The only thing she has going for her is she's good in the ring and has a unique look.

That being good in the ring thing is kinda important and more than makes up for any negatives, imo. I hate her ring entrance at this point, but I've very much enjoyed watching her performances.