WWE SmackDown Discussion II

bestnamezRtaken · Post #701 » by **bestnamezRtaken** » Thu Dec 6, 2018 7:44 pm

AJ usually gets booked mid card on PPVs because Vince knows it's going to be a great match, and he doesn't want it to take from his main event of the Universal title with Roman/Brock/Braun. Bubba Ray had mentioned that during a podcast I believe.

Post #702 » by **Stanford** » Thu Dec 6, 2018 7:49 pm

I was specifically talking about Bryan and AJ, who I think are good at wrestling in a way that Finn and Joe are not. If neither had a name prior to WWE, they wouldn’t just be booked differently, they wouldn’t have been signed at all. But it’s not fair to separate their talent from their stature in other companies. They got over because of their talent.

LLJ · Post #703 » by **LLJ** » Thu Dec 6, 2018 7:55 pm

Stanford wrote:I was specifically talking about Bryan and AJ, who I think are good at wrestling in a way that Finn and Joe are not. If neither had a name prior to WWE, they wouldn’t just be booked differently, they wouldn’t have been signed at all. But it’s not fair to separate their talent from their stature in other companies. They got over because of their talent.

Fair enough.

That being said, what do you think of Cesaro? He has had few opportunities in his career to showcase his singles ability, but when he did, he was always very good AT WRESTLING (imo better than Finn and Joe). But he has never been booked relative to that level of talent. Even if his promo ability is poor/sketchy, it certainly feels like he should have had a better singles career up to this point. Even if not actual World Champ material, at least a few world title shots. Cesaro by the way was also extremely over a few years ago as a singles wrestler. Yet they did nothing with him or that momentum.

improper · Post #704 » by **improper** » Thu Dec 6, 2018 8:28 pm

While it may be true that many of the cruiserweights are either every bit as talented or at least close as many guys labeled as heavyweights of similar size and stature, wrestling is about more than just sheer in-ring talent. And while it's true that in-ring talent is more important now than ever, as audiences have truly come to appreciate great work rate, even from heels, in a way they didn't twenty years ago, an ability to connect with the audience and get yourself over is still the absolute most important aspect of succeeding in wrestling for anyone who isn't related to Rock (in which case you apparently get a free pass regardless of lack of talent and/or charisma).

The thing with Daniel Bryan is that, face or heel, the man always gets himself over. If he's a heel, he knows how to make you hate him. If he's a face, he knows how to make you cheer for him and love him. Only a handful of guys/girls on the entire WWE roster have that innate ability to just get over regardless of gimmick quality or booking. Those are guys like Kevin Owens, AJ Styles, Daniel Bryan, Johnny Gargano, etc. Those are the wrestlers who can go to any wrestling promotion in the world and are going to be top guys sooner rather than later.

A lot of the cruiserweights, in contrast, have a good look (for their size) and are great in the ring, but the ability to just get an audience to give a sh*t about you is something most of them just don't possess. That doesn't mean they can't be stars, but it probably means most of them will never be superstars, and I think that's a key difference. Daniel Bryan became bigger than wrestling during the YES movement. He was pop culture. I think Gargano has that type of presence as well. Most of the cruisers? Not so much, although I like a lot of them quite a bit.

LLJ · Post #705 » by **LLJ** » Fri Dec 7, 2018 12:33 am

I do worry about Gargano, honestly. I can picture Vince looking at Gargano and thinking he's a small little dweeb. Finn looked great in NXT, but on RAW he's forced to be eternally smiling babyface jobber to the stars. How is someone supposed to get over this way?

(And Finn is still actually over, but they haven't rewarded him with even an IC run yet)

improper · Post #706 » by **improper** » Fri Dec 7, 2018 3:06 am

LLJ wrote:I do worry about Gargano, honestly. I can picture Vince looking at Gargano and thinking he's a small little dweeb. Finn looked great in NXT, but on RAW he's forced to be eternally smiling babyface jobber to the stars. How is someone supposed to get over this way?

(And Finn is still actually over, but they haven't rewarded him with even an IC run yet)

Finn is nowhere near Gargano or Bryan as an overall performer. I don't think I've ever seen Finn Balor put on anything over a four star match, and I think he just generally lacks the promo ability of Gargano and Bryan too. He's a good performer, but he has never struck me as an elite one. Gargano is literally always a five star match threat and Bryan is clearly capable of putting on MOTY candidates. Balor just is not.

LLJ · Post #707 » by **LLJ** » Fri Dec 7, 2018 3:29 am

Gargano is a 5 star threat in NXT. It will be different on the main roster. That doesn't mean he can't still put on good matches, but the main roster is way more overproduced and overbooked by various outside hands when it comes to match design.

improper · Post #708 » by **improper** » Fri Dec 7, 2018 4:39 am

LLJ wrote:Gargano is a 5 star threat in NXT. It will be different on the main roster. That doesn't mean he can't still put on good matches, but the main roster is way more overproduced and overbooked by various outside hands when it comes to match design.

Finn never even put on close to a five star match in NXT. Gargano is a threat every time he wrestles.

LLJ · Post #709 » by **LLJ** » Fri Dec 7, 2018 4:47 am

How do you feel about their use of Almas so far?

tugs · Post #710 » by **tugs** » Fri Dec 7, 2018 7:21 am

LLJ wrote:How do you feel about their use of Almas so far?

*lack of use

Post #711 » by **Stanford** » Fri Dec 7, 2018 12:23 pm

improper wrote:Finn never even put on close to a five star match in NXT. Gargano is a threat every time he wrestles.

Yep. Finn has not performed as promised in the ring. His NXT matches were never the best on the card.

Spens1 · Post #712 » by **Spens1** » Fri Dec 7, 2018 12:39 pm

LLJ wrote:How do you feel about their use of Almas so far?

So bad that his name should be up there for potential departures to AEW if that becomes a thing (especially if it means he can work CMLL and New Japan given the Los Ingorbernables link).

Scott Hall · Post #713 » by **Scott Hall** » Fri Dec 7, 2018 1:08 pm

They should turf 205 Live get rid of half the junk on there and use all the unused guys like Almas, The Club,
Sanity, Tye Dillinger, Zack Ryder, Shelton Benjamin, Bray Wyatt, No Way Jose etc

improper · Post #714 » by **improper** » Fri Dec 7, 2018 10:58 pm

Stanford wrote:Yep. Finn has not performed as promised in the ring. His NXT matches were never the best on the card.

I never followed him before his NXT career, but was he ever known as a "best in the world" type when it came to in-ring work? I don't recall him ever being regarded that way when he was coming into WWE, but it's been a while so I may just not be remembering it. At any rate, I don't think he debuted with anywhere near the hype or work rate pedigree as guys like Owens, Zayn, Almas, Ricochet, or a handful of others.

I've seen Johnny Gargano put on about twenty better matches than the best Finn Balor match I've ever seen, though, which should paint a pretty decent picture of how much better Gargano is.

The_Brecht · Post #715 » by **The_Brecht** » Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:12 pm

I really enjoyed this episode.
Storylines that make sense, excellent wrestling.
The Smackdown matches on TLC are far more interesting than the Raw ones.

Shout out to Ali, what a match against Bryan!

Post #716 » by **Stanford** » Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:55 pm

The_Brecht wrote:I really enjoyed this episode.
Storylines that make sense, excellent wrestling.
The Smackdown matches on TLC are far more interesting than the Raw ones.

Shout out to Ali, what a match against Bryan!

I wasn't a big fan of the match (commercial break ruined it - could have been longer as well), but I like the idea of rewarding a 205 Live guy with a match against the SD! champion. It makes Smackdown! seem like a big deal, especially when you tell all the wrestlers to tweet about how big of a deal it is, which they did. Everyone involved did a great job.

Spens1 · Post #717 » by **Spens1** » Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:12 am

Fox want 3.3 mill for Smackdown per episode..........

well damn, they haven't done those numbers since the mid 2000's. That is a stretch.

The show is good though lets be real though. Daniel Bryan's heel work has been making the show and Mustafa Ali was really good. I don't care about the tag team title though. Charlotte has to be the heel in this right, as soon as she's about to lose she gets the DQ (in fact its basically what Tama Tonga was pulling in G1 and he's very much a heel).

LLJ · Post #718 » by **LLJ** » Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:10 pm

They will never turn Charlotte full heel. It was "heel-ish" but not "heel". Vince has always had babyfaces do heelish things before. John Cena often came off as a jerk but he was a babyface forever.

This is either leading to Charlotte capturing the SD title at TLC or Charlotte continuing her losing streak until Wrestlemania where she topples Ronda for the redemption arc.

Post #719 » by **Stanford** » Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:32 pm

Asuka, Kairi and Io are having a conversation in Japanese on Twitter that reads incredibly bizarre through translation. Artificial Intelligence has a way to go.

tugs · Post #720 » by **tugs** » Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:46 am

Asuka: "YOWR STILL NOT READY FOR ASSSSSKAAAAAA!!!"

Kairi: "AAARRRRRRRRR!"

Io: *flies

Man I should stop.

This Miz-Shane angle is starting to become, uh, for a lack of a better term, gay-ish?