WWE SmackDown Discussion II

[iMoreland]

Headlocks and rest holds need to be banned from wrestling

[tugs]

If Joey Ryan's moveset is still acceptable, those two mentioned will remain.

Oh and that modified sleeper, dear lord.

[improper]

Didn't watch tonight, as I was out doing things, but read the recap and really like that they added Ali to the roster. The cruiserweight division really needed legitimate proof that doing well there can lead to something bigger, and now they have it. It no longer feels like such a dead end for all the guys Vince will never push.

[iMoreland]

Spoiler:

Rusev beat Shinsuke for the US title in the SD Christmas tapings. Bout time, Shinsuke's run was terrible.

Also we're one step closer to my prediction of how they debut Lars.

[Spens1]

Spoiler:

Rusev beat Shinsuke for the US title in the SD Christmas tapings. Bout time, Shinsuke's run was terrible.

Also we're one step closer to my prediction of how they debut Lars.

Spoiler:

Yeah it really wasn't good. I can't see WWE wanting to keep him on main event money, i think they'll offer him less and Nakamura will go back to New Japan or sign with AEW. His run to date has been a monumental failure.

Either that they'll go the other way and push Nakamura into the main event to wrestle Daniel Bryan at Mania which would be great if Nakamura actually bothers to try, an abject failure if he continues to coast.

[improper]

Found this clip of Asuka just getting the tar beat out of her by Minoru Suzuki. Not only that, but Asuka is the one who booked the match. Girl is tough as nails.

Watch on YouTube

[Spens1]

Found this clip of Asuka just getting the tar beat out of her by Minoru Suzuki. Not only that, but Asuka is the one who booked the match. Girl is tough as nails.

Watch on YouTube

I'm sure she told Suzuki to stiff her though knowing her. She's ridiculously tough.

[improper]

I'm sure she told Suzuki to stiff her though knowing her. She's ridiculously tough.

Well, as I mentioned, she booked that match, as I think it was her promotion, so obviously she knew what she was getting into.

[bestnamezRtaken]

Those slaps f***ing hurt me watching, jeez.

[jakecronus8]

That's **** awful. How on earth do people think that helps the product ?

[iMoreland]

Yeah that's terrible, glad WWE doesn't do dumb crap like that.

[improper]

That's **** awful. How on earth do people think that helps the product ?

Gets heat for Suzuki, I guess. And he is supposed to have no soul, so it's not exactly out of character for him.

I think the whole point of it was for Asuka to gain respect, which is kind of dumb, but you used to see that in WWE too. Remember when Undertaker absolutely brained Maven with a steel chair during the Rumble to haze the new guy?

[jakecronus8]

That's **** awful. How on earth do people think that helps the product ?

Gets heat for Suzuki, I guess. And he is supposed to have no soul, so it's not exactly out of character for him.

I think the whole point of it was for Asuka to gain respect, which is kind of dumb, but you used to see that in WWE too. Remember when Undertaker absolutely brained Maven with a steel chair during the Rumble to haze the new guy?

The attitude era is something that we all remember fondly but if you actually go back and watch there's so much stuff that ranges from cringe to straight up gross. The nasty unnecessary head shots, the way they degraded women, the racist/sexist stuff. The other thing I noticed from watching old network stuff was just how lame and sad the nWo was. Grown ass men pretending to be high school wanna be gangstas.

[LLJ]

That's **** awful. How on earth do people think that helps the product ?

Attitudes in Japanese wrestling is different. Also remember she's from a different culture. She's not a rah-rah feminist and I'm sure she has little concept of Western sexual politics but she has her own personal brand of feminism, even if it doesn't fit Western tastes. And yeah, she has sort of an old-school machismo mentality as you posted above. She wasn't trained by modern Joshi, who are much more contemporary. Asuka was trained by the super old-school women who basically put their students through hell and abuse. If you ever watched the documentary "Gaea Girls", basically those old school women are pretty inhumane to their students. I've no doubt Asuka was trained by that generation of women. Although, she is probably quite a different person now after having worked in the U.S. for the last 3 years.

Women like Io Shirai, or Kairi Sane probably had tough training, but nowhere near as inhumane as those in the pre-2005 era. Asuka was trained in the pre-2005 era. They literally had to change their training methods because society in Japan was evolving and women were being scared away from the industry and rightfully considered those old school trainers as being unnecessarily abusive. So without any good new young talent being created, Japanese women's wrestling nearly collapsed in the mid 2000s. Asuka started her career during the absolute lowest period of Japanese women's wrestling and for a time she became one of the few bright spots in an awful period. But it's since rebounded and the talent level is quite strong nowadays.

And Asuka has always said she wanted women's wrestling to eventually be seen as being just as tough as the guys are. That means being able to take a beating in the ring and keep performing.

And hey, she just main evented a WWE PPV and won a title to close out a show after a banger of a match, so who is to say she isn't actually helping make headway there?



Since Ronda and Asuka came on the roster, the overall match quality for the women has become stiffer, harder hitting, quicker, and more realistic. Some women have raised their game--Charlotte especially has found another level of toughness this year and has really raised her game. She was already good before but now I really think she's truly earned being considered one of the best in the company in the ring. Becky also. Sasha too. While women who are still stuck in the "Diva" era of wrestling ability are rapidly being left behind and can't keep up, even as there are attempts within the WWE to still push some of these types.

Ronda and Asuka may have awful mic skills (at least in english) but they are champs because the landscape and tastes within the WWE universe have changed. You gotta be able to work come PPV time to get fans' respect nowadays. You can't just get by on looks alone. Of course it's still important to be over with crowds as this is still pro wrestling, and Ronda and Asuka are over.

[jakecronus8]

There's a big difference from working a stiff realistic style to a grown man fully slapping and punching a woman in the face. My point is you can get heat in a multitude of ways that don't involve that cheap garbage.

[improper]

There's a big difference from working a stiff realistic style to a grown man fully slapping and punching a woman in the face. My point is you can get heat in a multitude of ways that don't involve that cheap garbage.

I mean, she booked the match, so it's not like she didn't know what she was getting into.

And is it really any different than Asuka tossing Becky onto a ladder at TLC? That probably did a hell of a lot more damage to Becky than those slaps did to Asuka. Hell, Charlotte slapped Becky every bit as hard during the TLC main event, and Charlotte's probably bigger and stronger than Suzuki.

Also, what they don't show in the clip I posted above is Asuka giving him a low blow and then kicking the sh*t out of him for a minute before he snaps and destroys her.

[Stanford]

She's not a rah-rah feminist

I think you have it backwards. From my perspective, the view among feminist wrestling fans in the west is that feeling uncomfortable with intergender matches ranges from old fashioned to totally misogynistic. Jim Ross in particular has been accused of being anti equality because of the stance he's taken on intergender matches. It seems counter intuitive, but feminists would likely be supportive of this angle.

I actually agree with Jake here (wait, what?). I feel a little uncomfortable with a man beating the **** out of a woman in the manner that he did it, even if it was agreed upon. I get that you need to prove your toughness in wrestling, but I dont think anyone should feel they need to go that far, or as far a Maven did in the other clip.

[LLJ]

She's not a rah-rah feminist

I think you have it backwards. From my perspective, the view among feminist wrestling fans in the west is that feeling uncomfortable with intergender matches ranges from old fashioned to totally misogynistic. Jim Ross in particular has been accused of being anti equality because of the stance he's taken on intergender matches. It seems counter intuitive, but feminists would likely be supportive of this angle.

I actually agree with Jake here (wait, what?). I feel a little uncomfortable with a man beating the **** out of a woman in the manner that he did it, even if it was agreed upon. I get that you need to prove your toughness in wrestling, but I dont think anyone should feel they need to go that far, or as far a Maven did in the other clip.

No, I'm just saying the differences between USA feminism and attitudes around the world are different. Europe even is quite different from the USA.

I'm not making any judgements here. I live in the West and I grew up with the evolving gender politics here. But I've also spent time in other countries as well. Just saying it's different. USA sexual politics is its own animal. We often view everything through Western lens but anyone who's been in other countries will find there are very different perspectives on various issues.

Regarding the match improper posted, it was MEANT to shock. It's one of the most infamous matches she's booked, and even Japanese audiences thought it went too far. But it got buzz for her promotion and it's the first match people often direct people to when talking about her own promotion. So, business wise it worked.

[improper]

I feel a little uncomfortable with a man beating the **** out of a woman in the manner that he did it, even if it was agreed upon. I get that you need to prove your toughness in wrestling, but I dont think anyone should feel they need to go that far, or as far a Maven did in the other clip.

I guess I just don't really see a huge difference between a man pretending to beat up a woman and two women doing it. The stuff that the girls did to each other in the TLC match was far worse than anything Suzuki does to Asuka in that clip, and it's not like Charlotte is any smaller than Suzuki. She's got as much size and weight on Asuka as he does. Hell, her fake boobs alone probably weigh as much as a couple of girls in the division.

At the end of the day, though, I don't think what Suzuki did is really any functionally different from a television drama where a man beats up a woman. You're supposed to feel uncomfortable. That's the point. But, at the end of the day, it's not real. Yeah, the slaps were real enough, but Asuka has had worse done to her by other women too.

[Stanford]

I guess I just don't really see a huge difference between a man pretending to beat up a woman and two women doing it.

Looked a bit stiffski, brother.