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I was hyped to see the Rock but they have no competition, Cena already handled both Miz and Truth on his own on Raw last Monday. I'm just hoping for a smart NYC crowd that keeps things entertaining

Coach Smiley wrote:I was hyped to see the Rock but they have no competition, Cena already handled both Miz and Truth on his own on Raw last Monday. I'm just hoping for a smart NYC crowd that keeps things entertaining

I read an article that noted, astutely IMO, that this match has nothing to do with Truth or Miz. They're credible guys who are both over so they're a nice team to put in this spot. But this match will be all about the "Can Rock and Cena co-exist." The only way Miz and Truth win is if one of the two turns during the match costing his team the match.

They really need to go back to the old days of Survivor Series. This is their chance to showcase a lot of talent and make 2-3 elimnation style matches.

safi wrote:

Coach Smiley wrote:I was hyped to see the Rock but they have no competition, Cena already handled both Miz and Truth on his own on Raw last Monday. I'm just hoping for a smart NYC crowd that keeps things entertaining

I read an article that noted, astutely IMO, that this match has nothing to do with Truth or Miz. They're credible guys who are both over so they're a nice team to put in this spot. But this match will be all about the "Can Rock and Cena co-exist." The only way Miz and Truth win is if one of the two turns during the match costing his team the match.

That's fair Safi, we all know that's the point of the match really. But by Super Cena taking out both Miz/Truth, they are even more of an afterthought to this match than they should be. Why does Cena even need a partner? Why didn't he just pick someone from the active roster if he could beat both of them up without any help.

The match should be can Cena/Rock work together while facing a formidable opponent. This is why resentment towards Cena seems to be growing. He still has his loyal fans but refuses to ever look weak and if they do make him look weak it is very brief before he comes and gets his revenge in no time.

CapeCrusader wrote:They really need to go back to the old days of Survivor Series. This is their chance to showcase a lot of talent and make 2-3 elimnation style matches.

They seem to be setting up one if not two matches. Rhodes/Barrett/Christian/Ziggler/Swagger vs. Orton/Sheamus/Air Boom (before bourne was suspended) could have been one.

whysoserious wrote:

safi wrote:

Coach Smiley wrote:I was hyped to see the Rock but they have no competition, Cena already handled both Miz and Truth on his own on Raw last Monday. I'm just hoping for a smart NYC crowd that keeps things entertaining

I read an article that noted, astutely IMO, that this match has nothing to do with Truth or Miz. They're credible guys who are both over so they're a nice team to put in this spot. But this match will be all about the "Can Rock and Cena co-exist." The only way Miz and Truth win is if one of the two turns during the match costing his team the match.

That's fair Safi, we all know that's the point of the match really. But by Super Cena taking out both Miz/Truth, they are even more of an afterthought to this match than they should be. Why does Cena even need a partner? Why didn't he just pick someone from the active roster if he could beat both of them up without any help.

The match should be can Cena/Rock work together while facing a formidable opponent. This is why resentment towards Cena seems to be growing. He still has his loyal fans but refuses to ever look weak and if they do make him look weak it is very brief before he comes and gets his revenge in no time.

Miz and Truth are only in this spot because they are more credible than Curt Hawkins are Tyler Reks or one of the many other tag teams they have. This match has nothing to do with them, its all about can Cena and Rock co-exist and Miz and Truth are simply the most credible tag team to put in this match. There's no purpose in making them seem like a real threat. If anything the proper way to build this match would be to bury them even further thus really putting over the idea that Cena and Rock can only lose if they aren't able to co-exist

I get that, but simple booking says you still have to make it seem like the faces are fighting for something and the heels should look strong going in to any match typically. This past week, Cena beating both of them up made no sense. Why should I care if they can co-exist if there's no credible threat to take on and we already know the two of them are facing off at WM. There is no reason for them to co-exist.

The better buildup, IMO would have been for Rock to turn him down at the beginning, have Miz/Truth beat up Cena this week and again next week and then have Rock give in to team up. Now i care cause Cena needs his help and they need to co-exist to beat Miz/Truth and their hatred for each other continues on.

They only have to be enough of a threat that he can't take them out alone. And they'll probably get the better of him next week. The point isn't to make the two teams seem like equals, in fact that's the opposite of what they're trying to do. Cena will get the better of them occasionally because he's better than them but he can't do it all the time alone. But if he has a partner the caliber of The Rock, Miz and Truth can't beat them unless they can't co-exist.

It wouldn't make any sense for Rock to turn him down. He didn't do this to help Cena, he did it because the people wanted him to and he hates Miz and Truth. If Cena continues to get his butt kicked it doesn't change the reasons he made the decision he did.

instead of saying the only way they lose is with infighting you could have it that the only way they win is by working together because miz and truth will beat them otherwise.

I really don't see the reason Rock even said yes to this match. Wasn't it because the WWE Universe wanted Miz and Truth to get their asses kicked? Well Cena doesn't seem to have any trouble doing that himself.

safi wrote:They only have to be enough of a threat that he can't take them out alone. And they'll probably get the better of him next week. The point isn't to make the two teams seem like equals, in fact that's the opposite of what they're trying to do. Cena will get the better of them occasionally because he's better than them but he can't do it all the time alone. But if he has a partner the caliber of The Rock, Miz and Truth can't beat them unless they can't co-exist.

It wouldn't make any sense for Rock to turn him down. He didn't do this to help Cena, he did it because the people wanted him to and he hates Miz and Truth. If Cena continues to get his butt kicked it doesn't change the reasons he made the decision he did.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Can't defend WWE on this one at all. All the Rock has done is pipe up about ho much he hates Cena and he's fake and all this stuff, they're already facing each other because of this at WM, but suddenly WWE universe tweets him a bit and he's okay teaming up with a guy that he despises. On top of that, a guy that single-handedly took out the team Cena's asking Rock to team with him to face.

It makes absolute sense for Rock to turn him down cause he despises Cena. If people are already tweeting or fling or whatever, imagine if Rock turns him down, Cena gets beat up for a few weeks and then Rock says, okay, I'll do it at Survivor Series only to take out Miz/Rock. Cena doesn't need to look stronger but Miz/Truth look stronger and Rock/Cena now have a real reason to team together. Then the question remains how will they work together.

whysoserious wrote:

CapeCrusader wrote:They really need to go back to the old days of Survivor Series. This is their chance to showcase a lot of talent and make 2-3 elimnation style matches.

They seem to be setting up one if not two matches. Rhodes/Barrett/Christian/Ziggler/Swagger vs. Orton/Sheamus/Air Boom (before bourne was suspended) could have been one.

id imagine they have a team Orton vs Team Rhodes

and a

Team Vickie vs Team Air-Boom (Ryder or Ryan replacing Borune, though id imagine the both of them will be in the match)

whysoserious wrote:

safi wrote:They only have to be enough of a threat that he can't take them out alone. And they'll probably get the better of him next week. The point isn't to make the two teams seem like equals, in fact that's the opposite of what they're trying to do. Cena will get the better of them occasionally because he's better than them but he can't do it all the time alone. But if he has a partner the caliber of The Rock, Miz and Truth can't beat them unless they can't co-exist.

It wouldn't make any sense for Rock to turn him down. He didn't do this to help Cena, he did it because the people wanted him to and he hates Miz and Truth. If Cena continues to get his butt kicked it doesn't change the reasons he made the decision he did.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Can't defend WWE on this one at all. All the Rock has done is pipe up about ho much he hates Cena and he's fake and all this stuff, they're already facing each other because of this at WM, but suddenly WWE universe tweets him a bit and he's okay teaming up with a guy that he despises. On top of that, a guy that single-handedly took out the team Cena's asking Rock to team with him to face.

It makes absolute sense for Rock to turn him down cause he despises Cena. If people are already tweeting or fling or whatever, imagine if Rock turns him down, Cena gets beat up for a few weeks and then Rock says, okay, I'll do it at Survivor Series only to take out Miz/Rock. Cena doesn't need to look stronger but Miz/Truth look stronger and Rock/Cena now have a real reason to team together. Then the question remains how will they work together.

It makes sense for him to turn him down, absolutely agree. But it doesn't make sense for him to change his mind when the only thing that's changed is Cena getting his butt kicked a few more times. Why would the Rock care about Cena getting his butt kicked? If he turns him down it shows that the sway of the people and taking out Miz and Truth isn't enough for him to team with Cena. If he changes his mind and the only thing that's changed is Cena getting beat down a couple more times the deciding factor is sympathy for a guy he's supposed to hate.

safi wrote:It makes sense for him to turn him down, absolutely agree. But it doesn't make sense for him to change his mind when the only thing that's changed is Cena getting his butt kicked a few more times. Why would the Rock care about Cena getting his butt kicked? If he turns him down it shows that the sway of the people and taking out Miz and Truth isn't enough for him to team with Cena. If he changes his mind and the only thing that's changed is Cena getting beat down a couple more times the deciding factor is sympathy for a guy he's supposed to hate.

I think the difference here is, that if he does turn him down, there's already a sentiment that people want them to team. Cena getting beat down is gonna make the 'WWE Universe's" calls for Rock to team up get louder which is where he has his out and says I'm not teaming with Cena but answering the fans and coming to take out Miz/Truth who now look legit.

The way they've done it, Rock says the fans wanted it, but Cena took out the opponents on his own so what's the need for them to team? Sure, the fans want it after Cena invited him but there's no legit threat. The way you described by following up a few beat downs from Miz/Truth could totally re-establish them, but based on this past week, they made Miz/Truth look weak and Super Cena even more Super than he is. What's the need for Cena to have a partner at this point? He single-handedly took out Miz/Truth.

whysoserious wrote:

safi wrote:It makes sense for him to turn him down, absolutely agree. But it doesn't make sense for him to change his mind when the only thing that's changed is Cena getting his butt kicked a few more times. Why would the Rock care about Cena getting his butt kicked? If he turns him down it shows that the sway of the people and taking out Miz and Truth isn't enough for him to team with Cena. If he changes his mind and the only thing that's changed is Cena getting beat down a couple more times the deciding factor is sympathy for a guy he's supposed to hate.

I think the difference here is, that if he does turn him down, there's already a sentiment that people want them to team. Cena getting beat down is gonna make the 'WWE Universe's" calls for Rock to team up get louder which is where he has his out and says I'm not teaming with Cena but answering the fans and coming to take out Miz/Truth who now look legit.

The way they've done it, Rock says the fans wanted it, but Cena took out the opponents on his own so what's the need for them to team? Sure, the fans want it after Cena invited him but there's no legit threat. The way you described by following up a few beat downs from Miz/Truth could totally re-establish them, but based on this past week, they made Miz/Truth look weak and Super Cena even more Super than he is. What's the need for Cena to have a partner at this point? He single-handedly took out Miz/Truth.

So he does it because the calls get louder? That's weak.

Yes he single-handedly took them out and the week before they beat him down too and the night before they cost him the title. He'll win some because he's better than them, they'll win more of the time because of there strength in numbers. But if he gets a partner that is his equal, the only way they can lose is if they can't co-exist. And that's what the WWE wants this match to be about.

But Rock agreed because of the calls from WWE universe. If the loudness of it to you is weak, then the fact he's doing it cause WWE universe is begging him already is just weak in general. You can't build up the hate for each other, then have Rock agree to be his partner because the fans asked and follow it up by Cena taking them both out. Bad timing and execution. If we go with the way you want it done, and WWE is doing, then Cena should have gotten beat up pretty bad again last Raw.

The way to make Cena then get the best of them, is to have him go on the offensive next Raw and attack one of them separately.

The timing and execution was horrible leading up to it and the end of the last Raw. I think either scenario could be made to work. I personally prefer my scenario, makes the Heels look strong, makes the need for Rock/Cena to team up even stronger and makes the co-existence question remain. The current scenario can still do that but their timing was off which made it look weak.

It's horribly prepared and most fans don't care much for it. Cena may as well have Chyna as a tag team partner, at least that way there would be some action. The obvious heel turn had better be a creative piece of genius, because it's looking exceptionally stale right now.

Another piece in dragging this out that would have worked so well is if they plan to turn Cena heel (which we don't really know if they are) but to constantly show Cena looking like he's been beaten up but not show Miz/Truth beating him. Then he turns at SS and the show some footage after that all the beatings were staged by them to sucker Rock in to teaming up with Cena.

CapeCrusader wrote:They really need to go back to the old days of Survivor Series. This is their chance to showcase a lot of talent and make 2-3 elimnation style matches.

I thought for sure they would have put Punk and HHH on Cena's team and threw Del Rio and Nash on Awesome Truth. Guess I was pretty wrong.

whysoserious wrote:But Rock agreed because of the calls from WWE universe. If the loudness of it to you is weak, then the fact he's doing it cause WWE universe is begging him already is just weak in general. You can't build up the hate for each other, then have Rock agree to be his partner because the fans asked and follow it up by Cena taking them both out. Bad timing and execution. If we go with the way you want it done, and WWE is doing, then Cena should have gotten beat up pretty bad again last Raw.

The way to make Cena then get the best of them, is to have him go on the offensive next Raw and attack one of them separately.

The timing and execution was horrible leading up to it and the end of the last Raw. I think either scenario could be made to work. I personally prefer my scenario, makes the Heels look strong, makes the need for Rock/Cena to team up even stronger and makes the co-existence question remain. The current scenario can still do that but their timing was off which made it look weak.

No. If he's doing it for the fans, he's doing it for the fans. It makes sense. If he turns it down, he's saying the people begging him is not enough to compensate for his hate for Cena. That also makes sense. But if he turns it down and then changes his mind solely because the calls got louder, that just seems weak. You can have Cena occasionally get the better of the two of them because he's better than them. The whole point of this story line is that they can not lose unless they can't get along. So yes Cena can occasionally get the better of them but he can't do it consistently. By them constantly getting the better of Cena defeats that purpose because then it looks like they're real threats which may be what you prefer but its not the way this match is going to be built up. Miz and Truth are there solely because they can credibly pick up the scraps if the Cena-Rock team implodes.