WWE Raw Discussion II

[daoneandonly]

Another meh episode of Raw. My gosh don't let Roman ever hold a mic, and the Ziggler/Drew vs Balor/Braun should have been so much more. McIntyre should have gotten the pin fall victory, not Dolph.

[Ruzious]

So many great options for this considering it's in London: Bate, Dunne, Neville, etc. Dunne makes the most sense, and I'd give him the title honestly. What a way to be introduced to the main roster than to be double champion on your first night.

Read on Twitter

Yup, I was really hoping Dunne would have at least made an appearance. I assume the crowd would have popped huge for him, as the kid oozes charisma, and it would have been a needed refreshing change of pace for the 3 hour show. Seems like a missed opportunity.

[Scott Hall]

So the A.O.P. haven't been around lately and then wrestled on Main Event yet Axel and Dallas who have
had several gimmicks and numerous chances to get over get yet another chance as if RAW needs more
jobber tag-teams. The B-Team was kind of entertaining but we'll see how long it lasts for.

Meanwhile in typical WWE fashion seems like they called up A.O.P. and literally had no plans for them

[Ruzious]

So the A.O.P. haven't been around lately and then wrestled on Main Event yet Axel and Dallas who have
had several gimmicks and numerous chances to get over get yet another chance as if RAW needs more
jobber tag-teams. The B-Team was kind of entertaining but we'll see how long it lasts for.

Meanwhile in typical WWE fashion seems like they called up A.O.P. and literally had no plans for them

From what I saw, AOP ain't close to being ready for prime time. Perhaps they were up in the majors to get some much-needed experience and to see where they are and what they need to work on.

The B-Team is there for laughs - they fill a completely different niche than AOP could - a niche that, quite frankly, very few WWE talented performers would want to fill. I'm guessing AOP isn't envious of them.

[improper]

From what I saw, AOP ain't close to being ready for prime time. Perhaps they were up in the majors to get some much-needed experience and to see where they are and what they need to work on.

Well, they sure as hell seemed main roster ready in NXT. Taking away their manager was a terrible idea, as he would have given them immediate legitimacy on the main roster. But this is a team that has been involved in some of the absolute best tag team matches of the past three years or so. Yeah, they got to work with some supremely talented teams in those matches, but you don't end up wrestling multiple four star plus matches if you're not good too.

If they're not ready, no one is.

But of course, Vince will almost certainly misuse them, try to split them up for singles pushes, and just generally sabotage them every step along the way. Because that's what Vince does.

[Ruzious]

From what I saw, AOP ain't close to being ready for prime time. Perhaps they were up in the majors to get some much-needed experience and to see where they are and what they need to work on.

Well, they sure as hell seemed main roster ready in NXT. Taking away their manager was a terrible idea, as he would have given them immediate legitimacy on the main roster. But this is a team that has been involved in some of the absolute best tag team matches of the past three years or so. Yeah, they got to work with some supremely talented teams in those matches, but you don't end up wrestling multiple four star plus matches if you're not good too.

If they're not ready, no one is.

But of course, Vince will almost certainly misuse them, try to split them up for singles pushes, and just generally sabotage them every step along the way. Because that's what Vince does.

There were also several posters here that raved about The Ascension before they made their WWE debut. The talent and skill levels at WWE are higher than NXT. That's why the best of NXT go to WWE, and the NXT is billed as a minor league for the WWE. And some who have success in NXT are not going to have it at WWE regardless of how good a push they get. I get it - sometimes I'd rather watch minor league baseball than an Orioles game - while realizing most of the minor leaguers won't make it to the majors.

This talk about the WWE sabotaging everyone (not just you) really gets tiresome after a while. If you're so unhappy about what they do, then why watch the WWE?

[improper]

There were also several posters here that raved about The Ascension before they made their WWE debut. The talent and skill levels at WWE are higher than NXT. That's why the best of NXT go to WWE, and the NXT is billed as a minor league for the WWE. And some who have success in NXT are not going to have it at WWE regardless of how good a push they get. I get it - sometimes I'd rather watch minor league baseball than an Orioles game - while realizing most of the minor leaguers won't make it to the majors.

This talk about the WWE sabotaging everyone (not just you) really gets tiresome after a while. If you're so unhappy about what they do, then why watch the WWE?

I really don't watch WWE. I don't watch Raw or Smackdown, outside of very rare occasions (like Raw after 'Mania). I usually just read recaps and then catch the PPV shows. As far as wrestling goes, I pretty much only watch NXT, Lucha Underground, and 205 Live, along with some NJPW big shows.

At any rate, I don't really think the skill level is all that different in NXT compared to the main roster, at least at the top end. Your top NXT stars are guys like Johnny Gargano, who I think is probably a better wrestler than basically anyone on the main roster. Styles and Zayn are the only real competition. Maybe Almas and Cesaro are up there as well, although not sure Almas should count since he's been on the main roster for about a minute and Cesaro hasn't been a singles wrestler for like a year now. Ciampa is probably better than 75% of the main roster too. Black and Cole would be among the top performers on the main roster as well. Strong too. Sure, the bottom half of NXT is probably mostly worse than anyone on the main roster, but the top end guys are some of the best workers in the world. Meanwhile, you've got dead weight like Corbin wasting a main roster spot despite not being a good worker, a good talker, or having a good look.

As far as the sabotage comments go, for the record, I don't think it's necessarily deliberate. I just think that the entire main roster is booked to please Vince McMahon rather than the fans, and Vince is an out of touch old man who doesn't even like wrestling.

I'm fully aware that not every act from NXT is going to succeed on the main roster, but at the same time, the main roster doesn't put most of them in any position to succeed from the start. They regularly call up guys with absolutely zero plan for them, and those guys flounder and end up on Main Event and Superstars because they were never given a real chance. Guys like Crews, Dillinger, the AOP, the Ascension, Zayn until his heel turn, and on and on and on. All of those guys were called up and then subsequently nothing was done with them. Zayn was the closest to relevance, and he was mostly only relevant at first because Vince trusts Kevin Owens and the two are always feuding.

There's no way anyone can convince me that a guy like Dillinger shouldn't have been a solid mid-card act. He's got a good look, he's perfectly fine in the ring, he debuted very over, he can cut a decent promo, and he always brings a ton of energy. He should be a mid-card guy and the WWE failed him, reportedly because Vince didn't like that his chants were wildly over.

[Stanford]

This talk about the WWE sabotaging everyone (not just you) really gets tiresome after a while

I agree but It's hard to argue.

[Dominator83]

From what I saw, AOP ain't close to being ready for prime time. Perhaps they were up in the majors to get some much-needed experience and to see where they are and what they need to work on.

Well, they sure as hell seemed main roster ready in NXT. Taking away their manager was a terrible idea, as he would have given them immediate legitimacy on the main roster. But this is a team that has been involved in some of the absolute best tag team matches of the past three years or so. Yeah, they got to work with some supremely talented teams in those matches, but you don't end up wrestling multiple four star plus matches if you're not good too.

If they're not ready, no one is.

But of course, Vince will almost certainly misuse them, try to split them up for singles pushes, and just generally sabotage them every step along the way. Because that's what Vince does.

Well to be fair, im guessing that Ellering at this age really doesn't desire a full time main roster gig

[improper]

Well to be fair, im guessing that Ellering at this age really doesn't desire a full time main roster gig

People asked Ellering about it on Twitter and he replied that he was willing to travel and that it wasn't his call.

Guessing it comes down to Vince's strange disdain for managers.

[LLJ]

I think Vince just doesn't like extra expenses. He's cut down on pyrotechnics and managers just aren't worth the money for what they do (to Vince). That's why quality promo emphasis isn't as big a deal to him now as it used to be. Like, he still values wrestlers who can cut a good promo. But he's willing to sit through bad promos from his top guys (Roman and AJ aren't the greatest promos) and foreigners struggling through english because he likely feels it doesn't affect the bottom line too much. And he's likely right on that front.

I believe Brock specifically hires Heyman personally so that's nothing for Vince. And Brock only appears like a handful of times throughout the year anyway.

[improper]

I think Vince just doesn't like extra expenses. He's cut down on pyrotechnics and managers just aren't worth the money for what they do (to Vince). That's why quality promo emphasis isn't as big a deal to him now as it used to be. Like, he still values wrestlers who can cut a good promo. But he's willing to sit through bad promos from his top guys (Roman and AJ aren't the greatest promos) and foreigners struggling through english because he likely feels it doesn't affect the bottom line too much. And he's likely right on that front.

I believe Brock specifically hires Heyman personally so that's nothing for Vince. And Brock only appears like a handful of times throughout the year anyway.

AJ may not be the best promo, but he is miles and miles better than Reigns. I've actually thought that AJ has been really good since coming to the WWE. Promos were always a weakness for him, but he really seemed to adjust when he got to WWE and I don't think it's been an issue at all.

Roman is beyond bad on the mic, though.

[LLJ]

The WWE writing doesn't help many of the stars either.

AJ is protected from doing too many promos though, even though he's basically all right as long as it doesn't go over 5 minutes. He gets over on his matches, and he's a workhorse in that he's the only top WWE star today who basically does a match on TV every week month in and month out. He's just about the only top star used perfectly to his strengths.

Roman is definitely poor on the mic. And they don't care. They really do not do the guy any favors and everything in his booking compounds the booing. I don't think you can salvage the guy as a face at this point.

[improper]

, and he's a workhorse in that he's the only top WWE star today who basically does a match on TV every week month in and month out.

I'd say Owens and Rollins belong on that list too.

[LLJ]

, and he's a workhorse in that he's the only top WWE star today who basically does a match on TV every week month in and month out.

I'd say Owens and Rollins belong on that list too.

Owens, yes. Rollins has been on a great run recently as IC champ. But there were a few months prior to WM34 when he was getting inconsistent TV time. AJ has pretty much been doing this for 2 years straight.

[Scott Hall]

Well to be fair, im guessing that Ellering at this age really doesn't desire a full time main roster gig

People asked Ellering about it on Twitter and he replied that he was willing to travel and that it wasn't his call.

Guessing it comes down to Vince's strange disdain for managers.

Interesting... I thought for sure because of his age he didn't want to travel full time

[improper]

Interesting... I thought for sure because of his age he didn't want to travel full time

I think most assumed that, which is probably why he addressed it on Twitter.

[Spens1]

Dear WWE

long matches aren't good because they're long, they're good cause of the action and story they tell.

This is just rest hold after rest hold.

Seems like we're back at 08-09 levels of garbage.

[Spens1]

also wwe ruining the only good thing on raw for the sake of Roman. Vince should just retire, he's made his money, go to the XFL and let HHH do his thing and somehow salvage this ****.

[LLJ]

also wwe ruining the only good thing on raw for the sake of Roman. Vince should just retire, he's made his money, go to the XFL and let HHH do his thing and somehow salvage this ****.

You are speechless after the Bobby sisters segment