WWE General Discussion II

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Re: WWE General Discussion II 

Post#1861 » by Scott Hall » Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:01 am

improper wrote:
Scott Hall wrote:The last 2 RAW "Legends Nights" were ordered from the USA network and with Hogan as the main attraction both
episodes saw a significant ratings increase. Hogan detractors like to pretend that Hogan doesn't have a significant
fanbase but he clearly does.


The problem is that those boosts don't really do anything, because the people who tuned in just to see Hogan will tune right back out the following week.


Yup... they book those legend shows like garbage. I know most of them can't wrestle anymore but surely they
can come up with some more creative ways to utilize them. Last few years it feels like a lot of them are just
used to get heat on Randy Orton which has been done to death and is pointless since Ortons legend killer gimmick
has been done since the mid 2000's and he's an already established guy that would go to the HOF if he retired today
and the segments just do nothing for him and the audience has been trained to know they end up going nowhere.
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Re: WWE General Discussion II 

Post#1862 » by improper » Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:31 pm

Scott Hall wrote:Yup... they book those legend shows like garbage. I know most of them can't wrestle anymore but surely they
can come up with some more creative ways to utilize them. Last few years it feels like a lot of them are just
used to get heat on Randy Orton which has been done to death and is pointless since Ortons legend killer gimmick
has been done since the mid 2000's and he's an already established guy that would go to the HOF if he retired today
and the segments just do nothing for him and the audience has been trained to know they end up going nowhere.


There's so much they could do with the legends to give some actual rub to the current performers, but they rarely ever do it. Why not bring in Steve Austin for a program where he manages someone who isn't a great talker? Or pair him up with Kevin Owens since Owens is doing an Austin schtick anyway? Then Kevin gets the rub from being on screen with an all-time great and possibly the most over wrestler of all-time and it makes him feel more important. Austin wouldn't even have to be there every week, as you could shoot a handful of backstage segments at once and use them over the course of several weeks, and then Austin can just show up at the big shows to be ringside, or hell even join commentary to put over Owens and talk up whoever Owens is facing so that, when Owens wins, it feels significant.

Like, this stuff isn't nearly as difficult as WWE makes it seem. I think half the people on here could book a far more compelling show than anything WWE has shown itself to be capable of in recent years outside of a few times when they stumbled over themselves and somehow managed to get everything right in a feud for a couple of months.
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Re: WWE General Discussion II 

Post#1863 » by Texas Chuck » Sat Sep 11, 2021 8:56 pm

improper wrote:There's so much they could do with the legends to give some actual rub to the current performers, but they rarely ever do it. Why not bring in Steve Austin for a program where he manages someone who isn't a great talker? Or pair him up with Kevin Owens since Owens is doing an Austin schtick anyway? Then Kevin gets the rub from being on screen with an all-time great and possibly the most over wrestler of all-time and it makes him feel more important. Austin wouldn't even have to be there every week, as you could shoot a handful of backstage segments at once and use them over the course of several weeks, and then Austin can just show up at the big shows to be ringside, or hell even join commentary to put over Owens and talk up whoever Owens is facing so that, when Owens wins, it feels significant.
.


Is Austin willing to do this? Does it provide enough rub to justify what I'm assuming would be an enormous payday? Would fans still care to hear Austin do his routine if the only payoff is the occasional stunner?

Cena is the legend they've booked the best--and frankly that's all about Cena. Best promo in the business and there isn't a close 2nd until Punk shows he still has his fastball and he's willing to put over any current talent while always remaining a credible threat to actually beat them. And he can still work a real match unlike Taker or Goldberg. The Rock always gives them a big pop, but it feels like it always has to be about him and him alone and Cena makes it as much about his opponent. Reigns should give Cena like 20% of his contract for essentially making audiences care about him. Both of their programs have been the best Reigns stuff of his entire career by a mile.

But what I wish they would do while NXT is still a thing is pick out 4-5 guys they believe in the most, have Heyman go down and work some NXT shows and build a stable of those guys and bring them all up together as a heel faction and let Heyman carry their promos for awhile until they are ready to hold their own and just book them super strong from the jump. And see if you can build some new stars. That is that their roster needs is a guy who hasn't been there a decade who can break into the main event scene.

Because in the next 5 years a bunch of workhorses aren't going to be able to do this full-time any longer and then they will be in real trouble.
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Re: WWE General Discussion II 

Post#1864 » by jakecronus8 » Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:07 am

Texas Chuck wrote:
improper wrote:There's so much they could do with the legends to give some actual rub to the current performers, but they rarely ever do it. Why not bring in Steve Austin for a program where he manages someone who isn't a great talker? Or pair him up with Kevin Owens since Owens is doing an Austin schtick anyway? Then Kevin gets the rub from being on screen with an all-time great and possibly the most over wrestler of all-time and it makes him feel more important. Austin wouldn't even have to be there every week, as you could shoot a handful of backstage segments at once and use them over the course of several weeks, and then Austin can just show up at the big shows to be ringside, or hell even join commentary to put over Owens and talk up whoever Owens is facing so that, when Owens wins, it feels significant.
.


Is Austin willing to do this? Does it provide enough rub to justify what I'm assuming would be an enormous payday? Would fans still care to hear Austin do his routine if the only payoff is the occasional stunner?

Cena is the legend they've booked the best--and frankly that's all about Cena. Best promo in the business and there isn't a close 2nd until Punk shows he still has his fastball and he's willing to put over any current talent while always remaining a credible threat to actually beat them. And he can still work a real match unlike Taker or Goldberg. The Rock always gives them a big pop, but it feels like it always has to be about him and him alone and Cena makes it as much about his opponent. Reigns should give Cena like 20% of his contract for essentially making audiences care about him. Both of their programs have been the best Reigns stuff of his entire career by a mile.

But what I wish they would do while NXT is still a thing is pick out 4-5 guys they believe in the most, have Heyman go down and work some NXT shows and build a stable of those guys and bring them all up together as a heel faction and let Heyman carry their promos for awhile until they are ready to hold their own and just book them super strong from the jump. And see if you can build some new stars. That is that their roster needs is a guy who hasn't been there a decade who can break into the main event scene.

Because in the next 5 years a bunch of workhorses aren't going to be able to do this full-time any longer and then they will be in real trouble.


Given his history this just doesn’t fit Steve Austin at all. DTA and what not.
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Re: WWE General Discussion II 

Post#1865 » by tugs » Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:19 am

WWE had their moments but more than a rub, they're more after "the moment" than following through with the rub

Remember The Kliq segment with The Club? Nothing happened after that. And even if there was, AJ, Gallows, Anderson aren't really the starts they should be grooming
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Re: WWE General Discussion II 

Post#1866 » by improper » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:51 am

jakecronus8 wrote:Given his history this just doesn’t fit Steve Austin at all. DTA and what not.


It's not as if Austin never teamed up with anyone. Triple H and the Two Man Power Trip comes to mind, and he allied with Vince McMahon, his biggest enemy, too.
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Re: WWE General Discussion II 

Post#1867 » by jakecronus8 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:53 am

improper wrote:
jakecronus8 wrote:Given his history this just doesn’t fit Steve Austin at all. DTA and what not.


It's not as if Austin never teamed up with anyone. Triple H and the Two Man Power Trip comes to mind, and he allied with Vince McMahon, his biggest enemy, too.

While that’s true, both of those angles were from his failed heel turn. I don’t think Austin is interested in a tv role other than the occasional one off. He’s also legitimately bigger than most of the guys on the roster so I think it would be a weird visual.
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Re: WWE General Discussion II 

Post#1868 » by Scott Hall » Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:12 pm

Waking up to the news that Ric Flair and Tommy Dreamer got cancelled on Twitter because of the
plane ride from hell. Had no idea Dark Side of the Ring is back already sounds like I need to see this
new episode asap.
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Re: WWE General Discussion II 

Post#1869 » by jakecronus8 » Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:08 pm

Scott Hall wrote:Waking up to the news that Ric Flair and Tommy Dreamer got cancelled on Twitter because of the
plane ride from hell. Had no idea Dark Side of the Ring is back already sounds like I need to see this
new episode asap.


I was jazzed to start the episode because the brief ways I’ve heard it recalled over the years propped up the Plane Ride to Hell as a funny story.

As the episode moves forward the gravity of how messed up the wrestling business was/is really takes hold of you. Rvd explaining how date rape drugs amongst the boys was interpreted as normal. Female talents being the victims of male talents exposing themselves seemingly on the regular. Ric Flair and Scott Hall attempting to sexually assault flight attendants in full view of their peers, 30k feet in the air. JR doing mostly nothing to stop the shenanigans. Just gross stuff.

Besides flair himself, Dreamer came off the absolute worst. While I can maybe understand not wanting to throw a friend and mentor under the bus on a nationally televised show, the simple method would to just give no comment or at most claim you didn’t see what happened. Instead he goes out of the way to defend Flair and essentially give the attitude of “It was funny. Don’t take things so seriously.”

Interestingly enough, they left out one of the most famous stories where Michael Hayes (who was obliterated drunk and also slipped a date rape drug) thought he was in the bathroom and attempted to urinate on Linda McMahon.

RVD was really the only one who came off likable in this episode (other than the poor flight attendant victim herself) and to a lesser extent Dustin Rhodes who in a stupor was the only one who stepped in to stop Flair’s antics from going any further. I believe Van Dam as he was probably the only guy who wasn’t drunk on the entire flight.

Another interesting part of the show was Jim Ross. I think over the years he’s mostly avoided the meat and potatoes of the story. Now as he’s interviewed in detail about it you can almost see in real time how JR slowly realizes just how messed up of a situation it was. When asked why Flair and Lesnar avoided any punishment: “…that’s a good question.”

This whole thing makes me thankful for the rosters we have today. Taker can stick it when he yearns for the good old days when “men were men.” I’ll take the wrestlers playing video games and doing podcasts over making a drunken ass out of themselves daily and exposing themselves/attempting sexual assault for fun.

This will undoubtedly affect Flair’s legacy and I don’t think Tony Khan would be stupid enough to bring him in anymore. I’ve also heard that Tommy Dreamer has already been excused from the next round of Impact tapings. I expect a future endeavors announcement on him soon.
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Re: WWE General Discussion II 

Post#1870 » by Dominator83 » Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:36 pm

jakecronus8 wrote:
Scott Hall wrote:Waking up to the news that Ric Flair and Tommy Dreamer got cancelled on Twitter because of the
plane ride from hell. Had no idea Dark Side of the Ring is back already sounds like I need to see this
new episode asap.


I was jazzed to start the episode because the brief ways I’ve heard it recalled over the years propped up the Plane Ride to Hell as a funny story.

As the episode moves forward the gravity of how messed up the wrestling business was/is really takes hold of you. Rvd explaining how date rape drugs amongst the boys was interpreted as normal. Female talents being the victims of male talents exposing themselves seemingly on the regular. Ric Flair and Scott Hall attempting to sexually assault flight attendants in full view of their peers, 30k feet in the air. JR doing mostly nothing to stop the shenanigans. Just gross stuff.

Besides flair himself, Dreamer came off the absolute worst. While I can maybe understand not wanting to throw a friend and mentor under the bus on a nationally televised show, the simple method would to just give no comment or at most claim you didn’t see what happened. Instead he goes out of the way to defend Flair and essentially give the attitude of “It was funny. Don’t take things so seriously.”

Interestingly enough, they left out one of the most famous stories where Michael Hayes (who was obliterated drunk and also slipped a date rape drug) thought he was in the bathroom and attempted to urinate on Linda McMahon.

RVD was really the only one who came off likable in this episode (other than the poor flight attendant victim herself) and to a lesser extent Dustin Rhodes who in a stupor was the only one who stepped in to stop Flair’s antics from going any further. I believe Van Dam as he was probably the only guy who wasn’t drunk on the entire flight.

Another interesting part of the show was Jim Ross. I think over the years he’s mostly avoided the meat and potatoes of the story. Now as he’s interviewed in detail about it you can almost see in real time how JR slowly realizes just how messed up of a situation it was. When asked why Flair and Lesnar avoided any punishment: “…that’s a good question.”

This whole thing makes me thankful for the rosters we have today. Taker can stick it when he yearns for the good old days when “men were men.” I’ll take the wrestlers playing video games and doing podcasts over making a drunken ass out of themselves daily and exposing themselves/attempting sexual assault for fun.

This will undoubtedly affect Flair’s legacy and I don’t think Tony Khan would be stupid enough to bring him in anymore. I’ve also heard that Tommy Dreamer has already been excused from the next round of Impact tapings. I expect a future endeavors announcement on him soon.

Agreed! You atleast hope that this stuff isn't commonplace anymore.

I'm not 100% on it being cool to cancel guys over something that happened 20 years ago though.(full disclosure: I haven't watched this episode yet maybe I'll agree with you guys afterward) If that was the case then Billups wouldn't be coaching Portland right now. I can understand it more for Dreamer because if he's too stupid today to condemn the behavior and is writing it off as no biggie, then that's on him.

Now it makes sense as to why WWE cut ties with Flair a couple months ago. I'm sure they knew this was coming and were just simply getting ahead of this.

Guys like Batista and Cena are probably thanking their lucky stars that they just missed that flight. Lol
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Re: WWE General Discussion II 

Post#1871 » by WRau1 » Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:21 pm

improper wrote:There's so much they could do with the legends to give some actual rub to the current performers, but they rarely ever do it.


According to Dark Side of the Ring, Flair has been doing a little bit too much of this.
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Re: WWE General Discussion II 

Post#1872 » by Scott Hall » Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:06 pm

jakecronus8 wrote:
Scott Hall wrote:Waking up to the news that Ric Flair and Tommy Dreamer got cancelled on Twitter because of the
plane ride from hell. Had no idea Dark Side of the Ring is back already sounds like I need to see this
new episode asap.


I was jazzed to start the episode because the brief ways I’ve heard it recalled over the years propped up the Plane Ride to Hell as a funny story.

As the episode moves forward the gravity of how messed up the wrestling business was/is really takes hold of you. Rvd explaining how date rape drugs amongst the boys was interpreted as normal. Female talents being the victims of male talents exposing themselves seemingly on the regular. Ric Flair and Scott Hall attempting to sexually assault flight attendants in full view of their peers, 30k feet in the air. JR doing mostly nothing to stop the shenanigans. Just gross stuff.

Besides flair himself, Dreamer came off the absolute worst. While I can maybe understand not wanting to throw a friend and mentor under the bus on a nationally televised show, the simple method would to just give no comment or at most claim you didn’t see what happened. Instead he goes out of the way to defend Flair and essentially give the attitude of “It was funny. Don’t take things so seriously.”

Interestingly enough, they left out one of the most famous stories where Michael Hayes (who was obliterated drunk and also slipped a date rape drug) thought he was in the bathroom and attempted to urinate on Linda McMahon.

RVD was really the only one who came off likable in this episode (other than the poor flight attendant victim herself) and to a lesser extent Dustin Rhodes who in a stupor was the only one who stepped in to stop Flair’s antics from going any further. I believe Van Dam as he was probably the only guy who wasn’t drunk on the entire flight.

Another interesting part of the show was Jim Ross. I think over the years he’s mostly avoided the meat and potatoes of the story. Now as he’s interviewed in detail about it you can almost see in real time how JR slowly realizes just how messed up of a situation it was. When asked why Flair and Lesnar avoided any punishment: “…that’s a good question.”

This whole thing makes me thankful for the rosters we have today. Taker can stick it when he yearns for the good old days when “men were men.” I’ll take the wrestlers playing video games and doing podcasts over making a drunken ass out of themselves daily and exposing themselves/attempting sexual assault for fun.

This will undoubtedly affect Flair’s legacy and I don’t think Tony Khan would be stupid enough to bring him in anymore. I’ve also heard that Tommy Dreamer has already been excused from the next round of Impact tapings. I expect a future endeavors announcement on him soon.


I don't know about the current wrestlers and generation playing video games and doing podcasts we're just
coming off the Velveteen Dream and Tessa Blanchard scandals from last year not to mention the giant scandal
with guys like Joey Ryan, Marty Scurll, Michael Elgin, Jake Crist and so many other Impact, ROH and NXT UK talent.

So many Baseball players have done similar things with Roberto Alomar being the latest and then there is the whole
Kobe thing who like Ric Flair has been getting a free pass from all their fan boys all these years despite everyone
knowing what they did plus Steve Austin is a wife beater and is beloved by everybody and gets his own day and
podcast on the network. Seems like a lot of dudes can't handle being celebrities and feel like they're god and
can do whatever they want and the corporations that back them would rather sweep it under the rug then
deal with the PR hit.

As for Dustin Rhodes I've seen him get a lot of flak as well let Brock flash his wife and told her to sweep it under
the rug actually she said she has ton of stories and he told her to look the other way maybe that's why she eventually
dumped him? Also apparently he told one of the stewardess that they were gonna bang later. Agreed about Tommy
Dreamer dude has taken one to many garbage cans and steel chairs to the head over the years and I found it really weird
that he was marking out and putting over how big Ric Flairs junk is like a 19 year old girl.

Jim Ross knows the answer as to why Flair didn't get punished it's like Penn State covering up Joe Paterno. Flair
is STILL trending and it's been almost 24 hours since the episode aired I don't know if he can ever come back
from this and is finished for good?

I can't believe they didn't even mention Vince And Kurt Angle wrestling or fighting and Undertaker choking out
Kurt Angle to get him to stop and then passing out again.

I don't know what it is about Wrestling that draws in so many creepy people and complete low lifes to the art
form? I grew up in that brief period of time during the Golden Era where Wrestling was pop culture and main stream
and everyone seemed to like it. Then I would hear grumpy media types always trashing it and Wrestling became a
dirty word and something you didn't tell other people you watched. I remember I went 12 years without going
to a show and I couldn't believe the people I saw at the WWE and Impact shows I don't want to sound snobbish
but I felt like I was at a Star Wars convention and the fans at the Impact show seemed like they crawled out
of a sewer I just don't get it? Even though I don't like it I understand why Vince wanted to get away from "wrestling"
and call them "Sports Entertainers" because Wrestling became a real dirty word with a real bad reputation.

Agreed about the Date Rape stuff being treated like it was normal. I've met Shawn Michaels twice and always
tell everyone what a piece of garbage this guy STILL is but I saw this clip posted a few hours ago and I can't
believe how Brutus Beefcake thinks it's so hilarious and I'm also always surprised how these carnys snitch and
trash each other for a few hundred bucks for a shoot interview.

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Re: WWE General Discussion II 

Post#1873 » by jakecronus8 » Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:18 am

I’ve never seen that Brutus clip. As disturbing as the story is, the interviewer cracking up is nearly as bad. I’ve seen a lot of clips with that mark doing similar reactions to horrendous things.

ETA: as AEW grows, it’s comforting to know (at least up to this point) that Tony khan is a real human being with a conscience and not a carny POS sociopath like Vince McMahon.
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Re: WWE General Discussion II 

Post#1874 » by Stanford » Sat Sep 18, 2021 2:46 am

wish dudes would just behave
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Re: WWE General Discussion II 

Post#1875 » by Dominator83 » Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:12 pm

Yea even after watching it, I'm not so sure I'm on board with this whole "cancel Ric Flair" mob. This was 20 years ago and the show didn't reveal anything new that wasn't already out there.

That's kind of like filing for divorce for something that happened 20 years ago, that you've already moved past it. Then 20 years later it gets mentioned and suddenly it's "you know what? I remember that. I want a divorce now!!"

I know that example isn't 100% apples to apples, but you get my drift.
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Re: WWE General Discussion II 

Post#1876 » by Stanford » Sat Sep 18, 2021 2:03 pm

It doesn't seem like that lady has moved past it
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Re: WWE General Discussion II 

Post#1877 » by Pharaoh » Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:53 pm

Stanford wrote:It doesn't seem like that lady has moved past it
From memory she was sexually assaulted multiple times on the same flight, told her employer about it, then told her to keep it quiet but eventually she settled for a lump sum.

I would imagine looking back now she feels she didn't do the "right" thing and should have prosecuted to the full extent but

Will agree that it's a bizarre people get "cancelled" for events that happened 5, 10, 20 years ago.

If society has changed it's beliefs and opinions on what is acceptable now isn't possible the people involved have too?

Except Tommy Dreamer - dude is obviously tone deaf

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Re: WWE General Discussion II 

Post#1878 » by Dominator83 » Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:56 pm

Stanford wrote:It doesn't seem like that lady has moved past it

She probably did until the show called her to open those wounds back up. She settled out of court a long time ago and probably got a nice chunk of change out of it. By going on the show she probably violated a non-disclosure agreement (pretty standard in cash settlements), but that's neither here nor there.

Look, I don't have an issue with things like this getting a guy cancelled. But I'm not crazy about when it happens retroactively for things that happened way back then and were known at the time. This show didn't reveal anything new that wasnt already public for the last 20 years. So why just now say "cancel that man!"? By this standard, Chauncey Billups should never have had a job on TV or just been hired as a HC. But he was, because his incident (which was far worse than Flairs) was a long time ago.

All im saying is, if We're gonna cancel people for things, do it in real time. Now if a bunch of new women come forward with things that were previously unknown to the public, then it's a different ballgame. Like I more understand the outrage tords Dreamer because his comments are brand new.
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Re: WWE General Discussion II 

Post#1879 » by WRau1 » Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:50 pm

Plot twist, the accuser is also a known jewel thief and has blackmailed/embezzled in the past. This doesn't discredit anything she's saying about Flair but it does shine a light on who she is and what shes capable of.
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Re: WWE General Discussion II 

Post#1880 » by Scott Hall » Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:56 pm

It's hard to believe that people that were born in 2002 are old enough to drive, vote, serve the army etc.
There's probably a whole younger generation that only knows the "fun loving" version of the Plane Ride from Hell
that was on Story Time on the WWE Network where the air hostesses were portrayed as giggling and wanting
Ric Flair. For me it was so long ago I forgot some stuff and I didn't know Flair actually forced one of them in the
back where they couldn't move and forced her hand to grab it.

Judging the reaction from people Tommy Dreamer and Jim Ross's comments really were the icing on the cake. Jim
Ross admitting he didn't face any consequences because he's Ric Flair exposed the double standard that people
always suspect. People also had never heard from the victim before and guys like RVD and Justin Credible explaining
how bad it was kind of makes you realize it was worse then you even think.

Then Friday morning I'm sure there were a lot of people like me that were confused as to why Ric Flair, Tommy Dreamer,
Dustin Runnels and Brock Lesnar were randomly trending... And what happens when I clicked on Ric Flairs name? I see
tweets of videos of Teddy Long telling a story of Flair dropping an N-Bomb on him, videos of Shane Douglas talking about
how Flair used to do this all the time and saw him whip his dick out in front of kids, tweets of Bam Bam Bigelow
talking about other bad stuff he did etc etc. If you aren't a Wrestling fan and know of Ric Flair and clicked on his
name you probably had no idea about most of that stuff.

Hogan said what he said in 2004 and it came to light in 2015 and he got cancelled for 3 years. Velveteen Dream and
Tessa Blanchard as well as Hogan did lesser stuff then Flair and only have one incident against them and got cancelled
yet Flair who has a history of it has gotten a free pass because he's Ric Flair? and all these years he gets to be loved
and respected and continue to make a living in the industry?

For me my problem is with the hypocrisy of the cancel culture and how people pick and choose who gets to suffer
and who gets a free pass. And then nobody can seem to agree whether it's wrestling or athletes or Hollywood what
indeed should be the penalty for sexual assault, domestic violence and racist comments? the people that are pro
cancellation on this tend to paint the people that want to give the people 2nd chances as monsters or part of the problem.

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