NXT TakeOver: Phoenix Discussion

[improper]

Hot take - Aleister Black is the most complete "prospect" the WWE has produced in a decade.

Hard to say WWE produced him, though. He's basically the same guy he was on the indies, just with a different name.

I also think Ciampa and Gargano are better prospects, as they are both better in the ring and on the mic than Black is. I'd probably rank Dream above him too. He's not quite there as a worker yet (he's improved a lot but is still sloppy at times) but he's got a look and gimmick that people love.

[WRau1]

Hot take - Aleister Black is the most complete "prospect" the WWE has produced in a decade.

Don't you think he has a ceiling on the main roster though? I'm afraid that his mystique will disappear under brighter lights. He's not an incredible promo or anything.

He has a look and style unlike anyone on the main roster IMO, is very polished in-ring and while not amazing on the mic, he's really good. I think he'll be a bigger star once called up.

[WRau1]

Hot take - Aleister Black is the most complete "prospect" the WWE has produced in a decade.

Hard to say WWE produced him, though. He's basically the same guy he was on the indies, just with a different name.

I also think Ciampa and Gargano are better prospects, as they are both better in the ring and on the mic than Black is. I'd probably rank Dream above him too. He's not quite there as a worker yet (he's improved a lot but is still sloppy at times) but he's got a look and gimmick that people love.

Tommy End had success on the indies but I don't think even his biggest supporters saw in him what HHH apparently does. Black is a dialed up version of End, I agree, but there are some subtle character differences that I think has made a big difference.

I'm a huge Ciampa and Gargano fan but I don't see the main roster fans connecting with them as much as they would with Black, mainly due to size and how McMahon sees them. Dream is fantastic and he's exactly who I was thinking of before labeling Black as best prospect but I don't know how his current gimmick will work on Smackdown or Raw. I hope HHH has more pull when Dream is called up.

[iMoreland]

I think Velveteen is a better "prospect" than Aleister, but I think they're both gonna be successful.

If I had to rank the top prospects in NXT:

1. Velveteen Dream
2. Aleister Black
3. Adam Cole
4. Tommaso Ciampa
5. Johnny Gargano

[Scott Hall]

Sam Roberts is getting destroyed on twitter for saying Belair doesn't deserve to be on Takeover and has
zero chance against Shayna on the preshow people are literally worked about this calling him racist and stuff lol

Just watched it. It looked like he was clearly being fed lines. He paused to listen for an uncomfortable amount of time. The way the other two reacted was really hokey as well, as if they were told to react that way. Looks like the marks getting worked again.

On the positive side, I searched "Sam Roberts" on Twitter and now I have like 30 new blue checkmarks to mute. Excellent.

I've noticed with Pre-Shows both main roster and NXT that the analysts try to have these super hot takes
Stephen A. Smith/Skip Bayless style but it's all kayfabe trying to under sell someone because odds are they're
gonna look strong during the show. Watching it live I didn't even think twice about what he said so when I went
on twitter after and saw him trending and all the slack it was getting I was like WTF?

At first it was like... Belair is "Un-de-feat-ed" how can she not be a credible opponent! OMG he's burying Belair
he's essentially saying don't watch a world tittle match it's pointless! Hey she's black dudes gotta be racist!

Even some of the dirt sheet writers like Ryan Satin got worked over this

[The_Brecht]

NXT Elimination Chamber match in the making?
Cole, Dream, Black, Gargano, Ricochet and Ciampa.

[The_Brecht]

Very meh on Gargano vs Ricochet, it feels like filler and smells like to too.

This did not age well.

What. A. Match!

[improper]

I think Velveteen is a better "prospect" than Aleister, but I think they're both gonna be successful.

If I had to rank the top prospects in NXT:

1. Velveteen Dream
2. Aleister Black
3. Adam Cole
4. Tommaso Ciampa
5. Johnny Gargano

I'd rank Ciampa above Cole for sure. Better look, better ring psychology, and he's almost as good on the mic.

[Spens1]

Very meh on Gargano vs Ricochet, it feels like filler and smells like to too.

This did not age well.

What. A. Match!

Yeah I shouldn't have underestimated Johnny wrestling, by far the best match on the show (then again, nothing else on the card was that great)

[Spens1]

I don't like where this Gargano angle is going right about now. Not so much that he is heel (cause he can do a redemption arc) but more so because he won the North American Title for exactly what reason?

If this ends without him winning the NXT title, it would be an absolute joke tbh (mainly cause after the great long angle of Ciampa basically winning the feud the whole way through, we'd have absolutely no payoff worth a damn), also you have to wonder how much life such a feud has anyway. Really speaking, they should have ended it by now anyway (last year they where messing around far too much with it, randomly inserting Alestair Black into it was fine for a bit, but now its just run its course entirely).

I think we may be getting an NXT two man power trip. I hope Ciampa and Gargano win the tag titles at some point now, especially since them versus the War Raiders would probably be a really goddamn great match.

See, I'd rather have them just do different stories rather than the entire brand revolve around them also. Like sure, let them be the main event, but have Ricochet, Cole etc get a good storyline.

[improper]

Decided to re-watch Gargano/Ricochet before bed.

Dear god Ricochet is just incredible. Gargano too, but Ricochet is the probably the most impressive athlete I've ever seen. The things he can do are absurd. He also bumps and sells like an absolute madman.

ETA: That spot where Gargano tries to do the top rope frankensteiner and Ricochet does a full 360 and lands on his feet, then does the cocky walk off and then stares down Gargano was legendary. One of the best spots I've ever seen. Feel like Ricochet had more character moments in this match than he's had in his entire prior NXT career. He needs to embrace that cocky showman persona, because he's just so damn good that it fits like a glove.

[Spens1]

Spoiler:

Kushida just had his New Japan fairwell (btw, watch his match with Tanahashi if you want a feel for what he is capable of). Liger more or less said though he is heading to the WWE, confirming that he is indeed coming to NXT. He's going to get heavily pushed i'd imagine also, since HHH is a huge mark for the guy.

[Dominator83]

Very meh on Gargano vs Ricochet, it feels like filler and smells like to too.

This did not age well.

What. A. Match!

Yeah I shouldn't have underestimated Johnny wrestling, by far the best match on the show (then again, nothing else on the card was that great)

I felt that the matches were all pretty good. It's just that the bar for takeovers has been set incredibly high to where anything less than 2 MOTY candidate matches is a disappointment lol.

But as usual, takeovers weakest match is better than the main rosters best match

[improper]

I felt that the matches were all pretty good. It's just that the bar for takeovers has been set incredibly high to where anything less than 2 MOTY candidate matches is a disappointment lol.

But as usual, takeovers weakest match is better than the main rosters best match

I wouldn't go that far. Becky/Asuka and Bryan/Lesnar were both better than Belair/Baszler and Riddle/Ohno (not that either of those were bad...just more in the three to three and a half range).

[Ruzious]

I think Velveteen is a better "prospect" than Aleister, but I think they're both gonna be successful.

If I had to rank the top prospects in NXT:

1. Velveteen Dream
2. Aleister Black
3. Adam Cole
4. Tommaso Ciampa
5. Johnny Gargano

I'd rank Ciampa above Cole for sure. Better look, better ring psychology, and he's almost as good on the mic.

Interesting. I'd go:

1. Gargano (the most compelling performer in the industry, imo)
2. Black
3. Ricochet
4. Ciampa
5. Cole

[Stanford]

1. Kairi Sane
2. Io Shirai
3. Shayna Baszler
4. Rhea Ripley
5. Toni Storm

[Spens1]

This did not age well.

What. A. Match!

Yeah I shouldn't have underestimated Johnny wrestling, by far the best match on the show (then again, nothing else on the card was that great)

I felt that the matches were all pretty good. It's just that the bar for takeovers has been set incredibly high to where anything less than 2 MOTY candidate matches is a disappointment lol.

But as usual, takeovers weakest match is better than the main rosters best match

Honestly, most of the other matches i felt were actually rather mediocre to average, not really that good at all sadly but they where bound for it, after like 6 takeovers that were all out of this world.

[improper]

Honestly, most of the other matches i felt were actually rather mediocre to average, not really that good at all sadly but they where bound for it, after like 6 takeovers that were all out of this world.

You thought the tag match was mediocre to average? I thought it was fantastic.

[Spens1]

Honestly, most of the other matches i felt were actually rather mediocre to average, not really that good at all sadly but they where bound for it, after like 6 takeovers that were all out of this world.

You thought the tag match was mediocre to average? I thought it was fantastic.

Oh yeah, that was great also (forgot to exclude that) but the rest of it (especially the womans title match) was not all that.

[improper]

I'd say Black/Ciampa was at least borderline great. I'd have to re-watch it, but I'd say ***3/4 to **** for that one.