WWE Hell in a Cell Discussion

[Scott Hall]

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[Flames24Rulz]

I'm not sure how anyone can defend WWE after whatever that finish was last night. Wow.

I also didn't think Rollins could have a worse title reign than the one he had after WM this year, but apparently, I was completely mistaken.

When is the last time anyone on the main roster had a good title reign? They strap the title on people but then give them the worst title reigns imaginable and it often feels like it's out of sheer spite.

Styles reign, I guess? But yeah, that's a good point. Even Kofi's reign wasn't very good, although it was leaps and bounds better than either of Rollins two reigns this year.

[Stanford]

The ending to HiaC wasn't satisfying but could someone explain why it wasn't a coherent or logical continuation of the Bray Wyatt story thus far?

[Coach Smiley]

Bray Wyatt found an invincibility cheat code? Or how about a disqualification in a cage match? Last night was worse than Joey Ryan's magic dong.

Although admittedly Undertaker and Kane really pushed suspension of disbelief to what I had previously thought was its limit.

[Stanford]

Bray Wyatt found an invincibility cheat code?

Certainly seems like they're going for a supernatural thing with the fiend, ala the undertaker.

Or how about a disqualification in a cage match?

That's lame, but it's presumably up to the ref's discretion. That falls under not satisfying to me.

[tugs]

But the lights ala Sin Cara was just cheesy af

[LLJ]

The bottom line is MANY fans wanted Bray to win the title, and it was his moment, even if he was honestly rushed into it and probably shouldn't have even been in this position.

He can kick of 100 curb stomps and 2000 superkicks, but that really won't matter to most of the crowd. The fact is he didn't get the title because for some reason, Vince doesn't believe he should be "The Guy" on RAW moving into the Smackdown Fox era.

[Scott Hall]

The bottom line is MANY fans wanted Bray to win the title, and it was his moment, even if he was honestly rushed into it and probably shouldn't have even been in this position.

He can kick of 100 curb stomps and 2000 superkicks, but that really won't matter to most of the crowd. The fact is he didn't get the title because for some reason, Vince doesn't believe he should be "The Guy" on RAW moving into the Smackdown Fox era.

I don't have a problem with Bray not winning the tittle this early into the new gimmick and certainly didn't
expect it but you just can't do a DQ finish or even a referee stoppage in a Hell in a Cell match you just can't.

This feud is just in its infancy stages but you could make the argument that Wyatt could've won it and Seth goes
on the classic babyface chase but do we want to play hot potato with the belt again after Seth just won it back
at Summerslam? people really hate that and have always resented Charlotte because they did that during the
feud with Sasha where they flipped the belt which felt like every few weeks and it stacked up the tittle reigns.

Also they need to draw a fine line with how much damage Wyatt can withstand in a match. They walked a fine line
with Undertaker back in the day and I still think the gimmick hinders him now when people make their top 10 lists
or Mount Rushmores and he's looked more of as a novelty act or special attraction.

[LLJ]

^^

It hurt Bray not to win it, and the ridiculous way the match was booked. The logical thing was to have Bray slowly work his way up to a title match over the course of several months, building momentum and fans, instead of being hotshotted into one after only ONE match after returning to TV, and in a situation where there was NO WAY Seth was going to drop the title, as you said, so soon after beating Brock back for it.

[improper]

^^

It hurt Bray not to win it, and the ridiculous way the match was booked. The logical thing was to have Bray slowly work his way up to a title match over the course of several months, building momentum and fans, instead of being hotshotted into one after only ONE match after returning to TV, and in a situation where there was NO WAY Seth was going to drop the title, as you said, so soon after beating Brock back for it.

I think that match hurt Seth the most, but it really killed Wyatt's momentum too. Unless they're turning Seth heel again, they forced the crowd to turn on him and he is 100% going to get booed, even if the boos are really directed at Vince and his idiotic booking. Honestly, that match hurt Seth, Wyatt, the curb stomp as a finisher, and the entire hell in a cell gimmick. Pretty impressive to do all of that in one match.

And the problems extend well beyond just the finish. Having the Fiend take that kind of damage and just keep popping up is going to make his matches incredibly difficult to book going forward. How can anyone realistically beat someone who can get up from a sledgehammer shot to the head like it was nothing? Or someone who can eat 20+ finishers and not go down? It's already annoying when guys kick out of multiple finishers, which seems to happen in damn near every big match these days. They went so far overboard last night as to be insulting to our intelligence.

If they didn't want to put the title on the Fiend so soon, they shouldn't have booked him in a title match. They shouldn't have had him feud with Rollins at all yet. They should have built him up slowly, letting him kill a few other guys before finally setting his sights on one of the titles.

Or, if they were dead set on doing Rollins/Fiend, you just have the Fiend destroy him while never going for a pin. When he's done enough damage, the lights go out and the Fiend is gone, leaving a bloody Rollins in the ring with the title on his stomach. We thus establish that the Fiend doesn't care about the gold. It was all about breaking Rollins. The announcers can imply this by commenting how the Fiend never went for a pin the entire match. Then you have Rollins slowly turn to the dark side over the coming weeks/months so that this match actually had implications on him as a character. This also puts the Fiend above titles, at least for now, so he doesn't have to continue feuding with Rollins or chase gold.

This stuff isn't nearly as hard as WWE makes it out to be.

But what's going to happen is a prolonged feud between Rollins and the Fiend that damages both of them irreparably while helping no one. Rollins will be dead in the water and the Fiend gimmick will no longer be wildly over, and then it'll be time for Roman's next push. It's the Vince McMahon way.

[Scott Hall]

I think the finish of the match hurts Bray not the fact that he didn't win it. Does he even need the tittle especially this soon?
His character is about a bi-polar psycho who's more interested in hurting people then actually winning things. In the promos
leading to this match did he even mention the world tittle or that he wanted it? did he even pose with the belt or stare
it down like Strowman? seemed all the character was interested in was spooking and hurting Rollins like a serial killer.

Off the top of my head the Undertaker didn't have a tittle match until 1 year later after he debuted at the 1991 Survivor Series.
Then when he lost it at "Tuesday In Texas" I don't think he won the tittle back till WM 13 against Sid in 1997.

Kane had the tittle briefly but was never really about it, either was Mankind until 3 years later after he debuted but his
character had changed at that point and you can argue that Kane and Mankinds tittle wins were to hot shot ratings
that night against WCW Nitro.

The moment they booked this match I was intrigued how they were gonna book this you knew neither guy could lose
but never thought it was even possible to have a DQ in a HIAC match lol

[Stanford]

But the lights ala Sin Cara was just cheesy af

Totally agree

[jakecronus8]

^^

It hurt Bray not to win it, and the ridiculous way the match was booked. The logical thing was to have Bray slowly work his way up to a title match over the course of several months, building momentum and fans, instead of being hotshotted into one after only ONE match after returning to TV, and in a situation where there was NO WAY Seth was going to drop the title, as you said, so soon after beating Brock back for it.

I think that match hurt Seth the most, but it really killed Wyatt's momentum too. Unless they're turning Seth heel again, they forced the crowd to turn on him and he is 100% going to get booed, even if the boos are really directed at Vince and his idiotic booking. Honestly, that match hurt Seth, Wyatt, the curb stomp as a finisher, and the entire hell in a cell gimmick. Pretty impressive to do all of that in one match.

And the problems extend well beyond just the finish. Having the Fiend take that kind of damage and just keep popping up is going to make his matches incredibly difficult to book going forward. How can anyone realistically beat someone who can get up from a sledgehammer shot to the head like it was nothing? Or someone who can eat 20+ finishers and not go down? It's already annoying when guys kick out of multiple finishers, which seems to happen in damn near every big match these days. They went so far overboard last night as to be insulting to our intelligence.

If they didn't want to put the title on the Fiend so soon, they shouldn't have booked him in a title match. They shouldn't have had him feud with Rollins at all yet. They should have built him up slowly, letting him kill a few other guys before finally setting his sights on one of the titles.

Or, if they were dead set on doing Rollins/Fiend, you just have the Fiend destroy him while never going for a pin. When he's done enough damage, the lights go out and the Fiend is gone, leaving a bloody Rollins in the ring with the title on his stomach. We thus establish that the Fiend doesn't care about the gold. It was all about breaking Rollins. The announcers can imply this by commenting how the Fiend never went for a pin the entire match. Then you have Rollins slowly turn to the dark side over the coming weeks/months so that this match actually had implications on him as a character. This also puts the Fiend above titles, at least for now, so he doesn't have to continue feuding with Rollins or chase gold.

This stuff isn't nearly as hard as WWE makes it out to be.

But what's going to happen is a prolonged feud between Rollins and the Fiend that damages both of them irreparably while helping no one. Rollins will be dead in the water and the Fiend gimmick will no longer be wildly over, and then it'll be time for Roman's next push. It's the Vince McMahon way.

These are all great ideas. I think an ideal storyline for Bray would going after all the hand picked top guys, never caring about wins or gold with the true goal being to destroy Vince and his legacy. It could all be in the name of revenge with the Fiend being Bray’s super hero saving him from all the mismanagement over the years. I almost thought that’s where they were going when the Vince puppet showed up on the Firefly Fun House.

Sadly, it’s quite clear that this new Wyatt is essentially the same as the old one except now he’s gotta mask and instead of boring non sensical in ring promos, he’s got fun non sensical vignettes.

[iMoreland]

Does he even need the tittle especially this soon?
His character is about a bi-polar psycho who's more interested in hurting people then actually winning things.

They talked about that during the match. They asked if The Fiend even wants to be champion. I don't think The Fiend needs the title, but Bray Wyatt does. Maybe the whole reason Wyatt created The Fiend was to become champion again.

[Scott Hall]

Does he even need the tittle especially this soon?
His character is about a bi-polar psycho who's more interested in hurting people then actually winning things.

They talked about that during the match. They asked if The Fiend even wants to be champion. I don't think The Fiend needs the title, but Bray Wyatt does. Maybe the whole reason Wyatt created The Fiend was to become champion again.

He's already been champion before and this was like what his 2nd match in a year and a half or 2 years? what's the rush
to get him the belt so fast? traditionally these types of characters aren't world champs or they don't hold it long. I think
Wyatt has re-established himself as one of the biggest names in the entire business the last few months. I know people
are having flashbacks to him losing every feud he was in before and was like a jobber to the stars but it's to soon
to panic that Vince doesn't believe in him again.

[magee]

Full review of HIAC: Complete and utter trash. Ruined anything decent that happened because of the end. The dirt worst.

[Dr Positivity]

I'm gonna defend the HIAC match a bit. I enjoyed it until the end. I thought the storytelling with Rollins going darker and darker was pretty good. I liked the Becky and Sasha match less than other people and thought the thirstiness for chair spots was blatant, so it helped the second one a bit for me. DQ in a HIAC match seems impossible, but in kayfabe the ref thought Bray Wyatt's life was in danger. I don't really understand why Bray clearly losing the wrestling match after taking like 8 finishers is supposed to keep him strong. Here are three better scenarios a) Make Bray Wyatt the champion and them lose it on October 31st in a triple threat. Is a brief Bray Wyatt championship run in Halloween season that bad? b) Bury him under a bunch of ****/use a chain or something to lock him down so Seth can pin him, c) Make him turn into Bray Wyatt so you can beat him. Like the Fiend is about to kill Rollins and then his split personality kicks in and tries to argue with him to not do this, and the lights go off and he comes back with his mask off and his FF personality, in which case Rollins beats him d) Make him face both Rollins and Braun in HIAC. He wanted a piece of either anyways and him and Braun have a story (of course you could just do Bray vs Braun in a non title HIAC and it'd have been fine too...)

Overall it was an ok PPV. The main problem was all the Raw level matches. They have tons of belts, is it so hard to just make those title matches with Shinsuke, The Revival, etc Wouldn't putting Cedric and Ali's US/IC title matches on the PPV actually be good for their career? I enjoyed Alexa and Nikki vs the Kabukis, and Reigns and Bryan vs Rowan and Harper was the MOTN. Bayley vs Charlotte wasn't that good, although I'm interested in seeing her "full heel turn" if it's coming.