Pre-season

[m0ng0]

Yeah 22/5/3 is terrible for a pg playing sg

Numbers dont tell the whole story.

Would you want to build around Tyler Herro? Jordan Clarkson?

Thats who Simons is.

Maybe let him play the point for a season? What do we have to lose?

[m0ng0]

God you people are insufferable, .

put the mirror down

Really? Saying let's give the kid already on the roster a chance to run the point for a season? I'm not the one cutting people down based on your stupid spreadsheets, I'm not the one cutting down a player because your metrics say this, I'm not the one judging a player playing out of position as a lost cause because he is playing out of position, you bitch about everything, take a good look at yourself boss, you cannot say ANYTHING good about this team but I'm the insufferable one? Check yourself Sh*thead, I'm actually kinda positive about this team as it's currently constructed, the pre season actually didn't look bad for once, I'm slightly optimistic... you sir are a bitter know it all based on the papers on your desk.

[BNM]

Yeah 22/5/3 is terrible for a pg playing sg

Has Simons led this team to ANYTHING? Seriously?

These are empty stats, big deal he put up 22\5\3 LY on a terrible 21-win team.

Simons played 46 games LY, 22 of those games they lost by DOUBLE digits (10pts+), including some doozies:

lost by 29/36/62!!/23/24/37/22

They won 11 of the games he played in, a stellar 24% win %. I wonder what that averages out to in an 82 game season? (would you look at that 20 wins)

What greatness is he leading POR to exactly? He isn't a 20/21/22yr old kid either BTW

Hey, you know Dalano Banton averaged 17\5\4 LY, maybe they should give him a $30mil contract?

Do you know what Simons averaged when HE was 20yrs old (the age Scoot is THIS year)? 3.8ppg.

He averaged 8.3ppg when he was 21 & 7.8ppg when he was 22. They should have traded him after that horrendous 2nd year, when he played 21min/game and averaged a paltry 8.3ppg on 39.9% FG% (33% from 3pt), what a bust.

Of note, when Simons exploded in his 4th year he averaged 29.5min\game, imagine that, playing a young player heavy minutes gave him the chance to improve. What a concept!

Too bad Scoot won't see minutes like that this year, stuck behind Simons as a b\u PG

But Simons has untapped potential! Potential 6MOY. If only Chauncey would play him in that role. It's the role Ant was born to play, but he never will as long as he's in POR - especially with Chauncey coaching. This season isn't about winning. It's about developing our young talent in the roles/positions they will be playing when we are actually trying to win.

So yeah, move Ayton and Grant at or before the deadline. Either move Ant to another team, or move him to the Jamal Crawford role he's meant to play. He is NOT a starting PG (or a starting SG). He's a tweener, just like Crawford, so play him in that role already.

Oh, and please fire Chauncey. He won't develop the young guys. They'll never learn a modern NBA offense from him. It will just be ISO ball, which gets you nowhere in the modern NBA. Lets get a coach that knows a little about player movement and ball movement. I'm tired of being last in the league in assists/game, AST% and every other metric that measures ball movement and a team oriented offense.

[Norm2953]

Shaedon has to come back to seize the SG position from Simons.

The team really needs him to play to his physical talent and stay on the court but he keeps
getting hurt, which means Simons is a starting SG/PG.

It's going to take some time to move Ayton/Grant but let's see who can stay on the court before
they can get any return from a trade.

[Wizenheimer]

God you people are insufferable, .

put the mirror down

Really? Saying let's give the kid already on the roster a chance to run the point for a season? I'm not the one cutting people down based on your stupid spreadsheets, I'm not the one cutting down a player because your metrics say this, I'm not the one judging a player playing out of position as a lost cause because he is playing out of position, you bitch about everything, take a good look at yourself boss, you cannot say ANYTHING good about this team but I'm the insufferable one? Check yourself Sh*thead, I'm actually kinda positive about this team as it's currently constructed, the pre season actually didn't look bad for once, I'm slightly optimistic... you sir are a bitter know it all based on the papers on your desk.

you were the one that just called other posters here insufferable. But then you often come in firing insults at people who don't agree with you, especially those who are critical of Simons

[Tim Lehrbach]

If Camara shows any consistent offensive output, he'll be too good to sit, and the recovered Sharpe may not be taking his minutes at the 2/3. I agree with zzaj that Thybulle probably loses any minutes he gets during Shaedon's absence.

I'm still in the camp of starting Scoot. Ordinarily I am a "minutes are to be earned" kinda guy, and Scoot has not earned a starting role with his play. But many have said, correctly, that we need to see every bit of game and potential that he's got, even if it means ugly growing pains and heaps of losses. The investment is too great, as is the cost of going into year three not knowing whether he's the PGOTF. Just throw him out there and find out if he's our guy... or if we need to draft his replacement. This team is going nowhere anyway.

I've said umpteen times that I would move Simons and Ayton, but I don't think there are any takers offering anything the Blazers want, in which case it's better to keep them around just in case they project as complementary pieces on a team that looks wildly different -- for the better -- in two summers. I like Simons and do not like Ayton. I don't think dumping either for unwanted players/contracts coming back is a clear addition by subtraction.

Grant can stay or go; I don't think it makes much difference. He's an OK player who gives his teammates a credible threat to work off and occasionally plays solid defense. I actually think his contract and, of course, his ability, make him more valuable than Simons or Ayton, who are rapidly approaching rental status for any suitors. I'd move him for a first round pick if one can be had. If not, he stays and plays, and it probably helps the kids out some to play next to a quality veteran instead of all guys trying to find their way.

I don't think we'll have much of a logjam anywhere, really. There's only 8 guys (or 9 if one values Thybulle) who need rotation minutes:

Henderson
Simons
Sharpe
Camara
Avdija
Grant
Ayton
Clingan

Williams, Reath, and Walker are all nice to have, and ideally they'd take Ayton's minutes, but that isn't going to happen.

Banton, Rupert, and Murray aren't rotation-caliber, IMO.

Ain't great, but it's a tidy rotation with some options in reserve who have no standing to squawk if they don't play every night.

I too regret that we don't have a coach with a proven record of development or teaching or even Xs and Os. I would feel a lot better about this season if I was optimistic we'd see the pieces used creatively to reveal our players' potential. Last season, however, was a complete loss.

[BlazersBroncos]

We can’t afford to take the ‘win the spot’ route with Scoot because this draft has some really nice Pg prospects.

Give Scoot plenty of time. If he isn’t showing large jumps in his play you absolutely take a PG in 2025 if said PG is the top of your board.

[Wizenheimer]

I'm still in the camp of starting Scoot. Ordinarily I am a "minutes are to be earned" kinda guy, and Scoot has not earned a starting role with his play. But many have said, correctly, that we need to see every bit of game and potential that he's got, even if it means ugly growing pains and heaps of losses. The investment is too great, as is the cost of going into year three not knowing whether he's the PGOTF. Just throw him out there and find out if he's our guy... or if we need to draft his replacement. This team is going nowhere anyway..

that's where I'm at. The Blazers invested a #3 pick on the guy. Bringing him off the bench in his 2nd season is not logical. Sink or swim time. Portland needs to see him face the challenges of being a starter. They need to know what they have ASAP.

They know what they have with Simons and it's extremely apparent that Simons as the starting SG just unbalances the lineups and roster too much

they will need to choose between Scoot and Simons soon anyway. Compile enough evidence to make a good decision

[Wizenheimer]

We can’t afford to take the ‘win the spot’ route with Scoot because this draft has some really nice Pg prospects.

Give Scoot plenty of time. If he isn’t showing large jumps in his play you absolutely take a PG in 2025 if said PG is the top of your board.

Scoot needs to play with the starters. Playing with the backups is a poor gauge

[m0ng0]

Maybe I'm old school but you gotta earn your time, nothing is given or handed out, you gotta earn it. Putting him in spot 1 just because you were pick#3 is madness to me, like he is entitled to it. I guess we will disagree, he will get plenty of time to prove he is even worthy of that spot. We got nothing but losses to worry about this year so what's the problem? Make him earn it. And if he can't adios

[Tim Lehrbach]

Maybe I'm old school but you gotta earn your time, nothing is given or handed out, you gotta earn it.

If the team figured to be competitive (and I grant that you think it will be), or if there was a dearth of guard talent in the upcoming draft instead of a wealth of it, I would be with you. Oddly enough, it is also Scoot's poor first year that puts urgency on evaluating him ASAP. If he is awful in year two, the Blazers should not hesitate to draft a lead guard if such player is BPA on their draft board.

[Village Idiot]

Maybe I'm old school but you gotta earn your time, nothing is given or handed out, you gotta earn it.

If the team figured to be competitive (and I grant that you think it will be), or if there was a dearth of guard talent in the upcoming draft instead of a wealth of it, I would be with you. Oddly enough, it is also Scoot's poor first year that puts urgency on evaluating him ASAP. If he is awful in year two, the Blazers should not hesitate to draft a lead guard if such player is BPA on their draft board.

I also am of the opinion that you have to earn you playing time.

With Billups future on the line, I fully expect him and the team to try to win as much as possible. With Avdija and Clingan in town and with the emergence of Camara, Chauncey finally has the types of players he wants. As others have pointed out, Avdija is the perfect back-court partner for Simons. Since Simons is currently better than Scoot, its hard to not see him starting with Henderson coming off the bench. Sharpe and Thybulle being injured also makes starting Avdija and Camara at the other wing spots a no-brainer, at least to start the season.

[BlazersBroncos]

Maybe I'm old school but you gotta earn your time, nothing is given or handed out, you gotta earn it.

If the team figured to be competitive (and I grant that you think it will be), or if there was a dearth of guard talent in the upcoming draft instead of a wealth of it, I would be with you. Oddly enough, it is also Scoot's poor first year that puts urgency on evaluating him ASAP. If he is awful in year two, the Blazers should not hesitate to draft a lead guard if such player is BPA on their draft board.

I also am of the opinion that you have to earn you playing time.

With Billups future on the line, I fully expect him and the team to try to win as much as possible. With Avdija and Clingan in town and with the emergence of Camara, Chauncey finally has the types of players he wants. As others have pointed out, Avdija is the perfect back-court partner for Simons. Since Simons is currently better than Scoot, its hard to not see him starting with Henderson coming off the bench. Sharpe and Thybulle being injured also makes starting Avdija and Camara at the other wing spots a no-brainer, at least to start the season.

Ya - I expect Billups to lean on the vets hoping W's buy him job security.

And I also generally think guys should have to earn their time. But this is a unique position. Scoot was very bad as a rookie. If we give him backup minutes and he shows slight but not really eye popping improvement what do we do in the draft 2025 when we end up picking 5 or so and the BPA are Saraf, Traore, etc. (Or even a jumpo PG like Demin)

[dckingsfan]

I don't think we'll have much of a logjam anywhere, really. There's only 8 guys (or 9 if one values Thybulle) who need rotation minutes:

Henderson
Simons
Sharpe
Camara
Avdija
Grant
Ayton
Clingan

So, this is what I predict as well and that will be the epic fail. If the off-season showed us anything (IMO) is that we should go big at 2-4. Always play 3 of the longer players along with Ayton and Clingan and just have one of Henderson, Simons or Sharpe on the court with them. Good luck with that right.

This has us playing Henderson, Simons & Sharpe together a lot. Which is great for the ping pong balls though...

And yeah, I agree. I don't think there is much of a trade market right now for Ayton, Grant or Williams all for different reasons.

Kinda puts Portland in a box until the '26 season (and just hoping that there won't be "stupid" contract extensions for Ayton & Simmons).

[Walton1one]

I'm still in the camp of starting Scoot. Ordinarily I am a "minutes are to be earned" kinda guy, and Scoot has not earned a starting role with his play. But many have said, correctly, that we need to see every bit of game and potential that he's got, even if it means ugly growing pains and heaps of losses. The investment is too great, as is the cost of going into year three not knowing whether he's the PGOTF. Just throw him out there and find out if he's our guy... or if we need to draft his replacement. This team is going nowhere anyway.

Yeah, and the 2025 draft (if Cronin doesn't screw it up), has some high level\franchise potential PG in it (Harper\Traore), and if POR doesn't end up 1 or 2 (Flagg\Bailey), then chances are they will be picking from Harper\Traore\Edgecome. Would be good for them to know if Scoot has the goods, so they can plan (draft a PG\Draft another (Edgecome\Gonzalez\Saraf\ect..) player\trade) accordingly.

But then again, Scoot is 20yrs old, Both DeAaron Fox & Darius Garland were also 19 when they were drafted & turned 20 early into their 1st season. However, both Fox & Garland had way better shooters surrounding them than Scoot did. How many missed stats were a result of his teammates' scoring ineptitude?

Fox started to breakout in his 2nd year (age 21), but of course he was playing 31min a night (28min his 1st year)

Garland is a similar story, but again, also playing 33min a night (31min his 1st year).

How many minutes is Scoot going to get as a BACKUP this year? 24? I'll say it again, Cronin & Co., are not helping Scoot to succeed. I don't think playing Scoot as a b\u with a cast of non-shooting bench-level players is going to provide ANY clarity, unfortunately.

Just for reference (Y1 comparison):

FOX
PPG 11.6
REB 2.8
AST 4.4
TO 2.4
FG% 41.2%
3FG% 30.7%
TS% 47.8%

GARLAND
PPG 12.3
REB 1.9
AST 3.9
TO 2.6
FG% 40.1%
3FG% 35.5%
TS% 49.8%

SCOOT
PPG 14.0
REB 3.1
AST 5.4
TO 3.4
FG% 38.5%
3FG% 32.5%
TS% 48.9%

[Walton1one]

I also think that Clingan & Avdija are "net positive" players. Just them playing is going to make this team better, and if Camara keeps up his improved play, he is also a "net positive" player. So, IMO this team is going to be better than LY team, just by having them on the roster\in the rotation.

This is why keeping Simons\Grant (in particular) going into the season is a BAD move. Because, while they will be better, they won't be good enough to be a play in\playoff team, which means they are just handicapping their ability to get better via the draft. Which they desperately need, because they do not have that star\franchise player, and those types of players, statistically are at the top of the draft & 2025 particularly is shaping up to be VERY strong, that is why it is imperative that POR is picking at the top, nothing else really matters. You need a Walton\Drexler\Roy\Dame to even HAVE a chance at being a meaningful playoff contender, and this team does not have one.

Avdija\Clingan\Camara, are all potentially good foundational pieces, probably Sharpe as well, if he can stay healthy, same with Scoot, but franchise\Top 30 players? I don't see that with any of them yet (Still time for Sharpe\Scoot)

This is why addition by subtraction (Ant\Grant) is needed, get what you can for either player, Cronin should have already done so. I don't buy the narrative that Grant or Simons could not fetch a 1st round pick. But is that what Joe is asking for? Because I believe he is asking for way more and that is why they are still on this roster, and if they remain so up until the Trade deadline (or very likely, given Cronin's apathy, beyond it as well) then he is probably going to screw up his chances in the 2025 draft as a result, which would be malpractice for a GM (a fireable offense IMO).

Cronin talked the talk at the start of training camp, yet his inaction bely his words.

[dckingsfan]

I also think that Clingan & Avdija are "net positive" players. Just them playing is going to make this team better, and if Camara keeps up his improved play, he is also a "net positive" player. So, IMO this team is going to be better than LY team, just by having them on the roster\in the rotation.

This is why keeping Simons\Grant (in particular) going into the season is a BAD move. Because, while they will be better, they won't be good enough to be a play in\playoff team, which means they are just handicapping their ability to get better via the draft. Which they desperately need, because they do not have that star\franchise player, and those types of players, statistically are at the top of the draft & 2025 particularly is shaping up to be VERY strong, that is why it is imperative that POR is picking at the top, nothing else really matters. You need a Walton\Drexler\Roy\Dame to even HAVE a chance at being a meaningful playoff contender, and this team does not have one.

Avdija\Clingan\Camara, are all potentially good foundational pieces, probably Sharpe as well, if he can stay healthy, same with Scoot, but franchise\Top 30 players? I don't see that with any of them yet (Still time for Sharpe\Scoot)

This is why addition by subtraction (Ant\Grant) is needed, get what you can for either player, Cronin should have already done so. I don't buy the narrative that Grant or Simons could not fetch a 1st round pick. But is that what Joe is asking for? Because I believe he is asking for way more and that is why they are still on this roster, and if they remain so up until the Trade deadline (or very likely, given Cronin's apathy, beyond it as well) then he is probably going to screw up his chances in the 2025 draft as a result, which would be malpractice for a GM (a fireable offense IMO).

Cronin talked the talk at the start of training camp, yet his inaction bely his words.

Agreed with everything until the "could not fetch a 1st round pick" part.

If you are thinking a highly protected FRP that could become a SRP. Yeah.

But a reminder. This isn't an easy transaction because Portland has to take back salary (and hopefully not a worse contract).

Ayton, Grant, Williams or Simons for "real" draft capital and not kill the cap doing it... that would be a net benefit (so, I am in agreement with you) because none of them move the needle in the long-term.

As for the number of wins for this team this year... just playing lots of Simons, Henderson and Sharpe with Ayton together should take care of the problem

[BlazersBroncos]

I think that Grant can pull a LP FRP - even with that contract I think guys his size that can shoot and defend (When he wants) could be enticing for a contender.

Dont see a team that gives a FRP for Ayton, Simons or RWIII.

[dckingsfan]

I think that Grant can pull a LP FRP - even with that contract I think guys his size that can shoot and defend (When he wants) could be enticing for a contender.

Don't see a team that gives a FRP for Ayton, Simons or RWIII.

Yep, especially if it is a FRP that is heavily protected.

I would happily take a couple of SRPs for RWIII, right? Although they might just be sold for cash