Game 2: Portland vs New Orleans 7:00pm

[soobias]

GRANT,DA,SIMONS took 57 of the 78 shots lol, of course we're gonna lose.

[soobias]

also, quick question. how many teams become successful after multiple years of tanking ? just wondering

[Wizenheimer]

also, quick question. how many teams become successful after multiple years of tanking ? just wondering

* Golden State was in the lottery in 10 of 11 years before they assembled the team that won 4 championships

* New Orleans was in the lottery in 9 of the last 13 seasons

* Minny was in the lottery in 16 of 17 seasons before they assembled the team that made it to the WCF last year

* Phoenix was in the lottery for 10 straight seasons until they built the team that played in the NBA finals

* Milwaukee was in the lottery in 7 out of 9 years until they drafted and developed Giannis

I think that points to about the only path available to Portland. They have to keep rolling the dice, hoping to roll into a Giannis or a Taum or a Doncic or a SGA. Or, they can just settle for Simons, Grant, and Ayton to chuck up 55 shots a game and win enough to land late in the lottery, because those guys will never lead the Blazers to the playoffs

[Shem]

also, quick question. how many teams become successful after multiple years of tanking ? just wondering

San Antonio is in year 6 of its tank. Funny enough, the Spurs in their first 43 years in the NBA only missed the playoffs 4 times. They have since missed the last 5. And Popovich is still the coach and they're likely going to tank again this year. I guarantee if Popovich would have been in his first 5 seasons as the Spurs coach and didn't coach the Tim Duncan era, people would be wondering why he hasn't been fired yet. You know I'm right.

The Blazers are now the youngest team in the league and it's like I said last season. They're going to suck again this year. I don't understand how this is a surprise to so many people. People think if we change the coach, we'll start winning. Phil Jackson couldn't get this team to win right now either if he came out of retirement and coach this season's Blazers.

This upcoming draft is going to be much better than last year's. It's not necessarily about just getting Cooper Flagg. There are at least 5 prospects that would have been the #1 overall pick in the 2024 draft. Getting at least a top 5 pick is a must.

If you can't stand the losing, well suck it up. Learn to think bigger picture.

[Shem]

Simons-Ayton-Grant took 57 of Portland's 90 shots (63%), and they played 36-33-40 minutes respectively.

Those players are eventually going to be moved. I know for a fact they're not in Cronin's long term plans. It's about when and the when is "when" there's a good deal and not one Cronin settles on. I'm expecting at least two of the three moved by the trade deadline. That's when teams get more desperate when they either are in the race for a deep run, or think they are.

If it helps the tank for a top draft pick, I'm all for it. It's not like Sharpe is ready to play right now anyway.

[monopoman]

also, quick question. how many teams become successful after multiple years of tanking ? just wondering

San Antonio is in year 6 of its tank. Funny enough, the Spurs in their first 43 years in the NBA only missed the playoffs 4 times. They have since missed the last 5. And Popovich is still the coach and they're likely going to tank again this year. I guarantee if Popovich would have been in his first 5 seasons as the Spurs coach and didn't coach the Tim Duncan era, people would be wondering why he hasn't been fired yet. You know I'm right.

The Blazers are now the youngest team in the league and it's like I said last season. They're going to suck again this year. I don't understand how this is a surprise to so many people. People think if we change the coach, we'll start winning. Phil Jackson couldn't get this team to win right now either if he came out of retirement and coach this season's Blazers.

This upcoming draft is going to be much better than last year's. It's not necessarily about just getting Cooper Flagg. There are at least 5 prospects that would have been the #1 overall pick in the 2024 draft. Getting at least a top 5 pick is a must.

If you can't stand the losing, well suck it up. Learn to think bigger picture.

We have real talent on this team, I think with enough time this team could be pretty damn great if we get a true superstar that might be the missing piece. Scoot or Sharpe have the potential to be that, with Clingan maybe having a very small chance, but we don't have that guy for sure yet.

This type of game shows exactly why I am high on Scoot, he might not be great yet but this game shows the type of domination he can exhibit at some point. We also have a team with some real height on it so no longer will we be undersized against everyone like we were in the Dame+CJ era.

[Blazinaway]

I like what Ive seen from Scoot this season so far. I thought he was solid in the first game besides the 3s not falling.

I just wish we'd get ant dealt and open it up for him. Worst case he stinks and then we know we can take a pg if that's bpa in the draft

Agree, especially as to what I saw from Any last night, the last 2 minutes were awful by him

[Blazinaway]

Simons-Ayton-Grant took 57 of Portland's 90 shots (63%), and they played 36-33-40 minutes respectively.

Those players are eventually going to be moved. I know for a fact they're not in Cronin's long term plans. It's about when and the when is "when" there's a good deal and not one Cronin settles on. I'm expecting at least two of the three moved by the trade deadline. That's when teams get more desperate when they either are in the race for a deep run, or think they are.

If it helps the tank for a top draft pick, I'm all for it. It's not like Sharpe is ready to play right now anyway.

Grant should be the easiest to move, Ant and Ayton ain't going to return much if anything

[Butter]

also, quick question. how many teams become successful after multiple years of tanking ? just wondering

San Antonio is in year 6 of its tank. Funny enough, the Spurs in their first 43 years in the NBA only missed the playoffs 4 times. They have since missed the last 5. And Popovich is still the coach and they're likely going to tank again this year. I guarantee if Popovich would have been in his first 5 seasons as the Spurs coach and didn't coach the Tim Duncan era, people would be wondering why he hasn't been fired yet. You know I'm right.

The Blazers are now the youngest team in the league and it's like I said last season. They're going to suck again this year. I don't understand how this is a surprise to so many people. People think if we change the coach, we'll start winning. Phil Jackson couldn't get this team to win right now either if he came out of retirement and coach this season's Blazers.

This upcoming draft is going to be much better than last year's. It's not necessarily about just getting Cooper Flagg. There are at least 5 prospects that would have been the #1 overall pick in the 2024 draft. Getting at least a top 5 pick is a must.

If you can't stand the losing, well suck it up. Learn to think bigger picture.

We have real talent on this team, I think with enough time this team could be pretty damn great if we get a true superstar that might be the missing piece. Scoot or Sharpe have the potential to be that, with Clingan maybe having a very small chance, but we don't have that guy for sure yet.

This type of game shows exactly why I am high on Scoot, he might not be great yet but this game shows the type of domination he can exhibit at some point. We also have a team with some real height on it so no longer will we be undersized against everyone like we were in the Dame+CJ era.

Plus, if Scoot can provide a spark off the bench, especially if he gets the 2nd unit going, that's huge

Not what we want long term, but great for now

[Wizenheimer]

Simons-Ayton-Grant took 57 of Portland's 90 shots (63%), and they played 36-33-40 minutes respectively.

Those players are eventually going to be moved. I know for a fact they're not in Cronin's long term plans. It's about when and the when is "when" there's a good deal and not one Cronin settles on. I'm expecting at least two of the three moved by the trade deadline. That's when teams get more desperate when they either are in the race for a deep run, or think they are.

If it helps the tank for a top draft pick, I'm all for it. It's not like Sharpe is ready to play right now anyway.

Grant should be the easiest to move, Ant and Ayton ain't going to return much if anything

I'm having a hard time buying the idea that Portland is actively shopping those 3. Even harder time believing that 2 of 3 will be moved at the trade deadline. I'd love it if it happens obviously; I really want Simons and Ayton to be in Portland's rear-view mirror

* I agree that Grant, easily, has the most trade value. He's a wing with length, which is the most coveted type of player. He has 2-way and 3&D value. And he's turned into a 40% shooter from three. But I just don't believe the Blazers will ever get the two first round picks Cronin is reportedly asking for.

* Simons? Very little positive value, especially after last night when he tried, and failed miserably, at being Portland's hero. That 90 seconds will be required viewing in 29 NBA front offices. Unlike Grant, no-defense Simons has no wing value; no 2 way value; no 3&D value. He's an undersized SG with mediocre tweener skills who gives up as much on defense as he adds on offense

Ayton? a traditional C who posts empty-calorie stats and is grossly overpaid. Negative value. That Cronin apparently coveted him for 2 years is a real black mark on Cronin's judgement

I'm also not buying the notion that teams will be more desperate at the trade deadline. More motivated, sure. But a lot of that motivation will be for shedding salary and because of Portland's incompetent cap management they don't have the room or space to be a landing spot for an unwanted player. The only other motivation would be teams looking for the final piece for the playoff run; key addition at an essential position. I don't think Simons or Ayton would be viewed as Key pieces by any team. And their high salaries are a major obstacle.

so again, that leaves Grant as Portland's primary leverage. And teams that might want Grant, won't have good draft picks

[Wizenheimer]

The Blazers are now the youngest team in the league

4th youngest.....average age:

Washington Wizards 23.8
Houston Rockets 24.1
Oklahoma City Thunder 24.2
Portland Trail Blazers 24.4
Orlando Magic 24.8

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2025.html

using Portland's average age as a defense of their situation, doesn't really help, IMO. OKC was younger last season and had the best record in the west, winning 36 more games than Portland. Orlando is about the same age as Portland and was 47-35 last season. Houston might make the playoffs this season. Portland is not like those teams. They are like the Wizards: painted into a low talent corner by bad decisions and a refusal to commit to a direction. Apparently unable to stop straddling fences

If you can't stand the losing, well suck it up. Learn to think bigger picture.

absolutely true. The Blazers wasted the prime of the best player they had since Clyde, and the most loyal Blazer ever, They did so because of the abject incompetence of Olshey and Paul Allen's blindness to that incompetence. A lot of Blazer fans were apparently thinking there was going to be some quick turn-around after trading Dame. I guess there were fantasies about some godfather package they'd get in return

but the haul was Deandre Ayton, Brogdon, the busted body of Timelord a 14th pick and draft picks 5-6 years in the future. And they possibly gave up 2 of those picks for Avdija

Portland had no other choice than tanking. The unsavory thing is that they had to engage in blatant tanks that leave sour tastes in the mouths of many fans. But they had organic tanks available if they just had a GM who realized there was no short term or long term value in holding on to the vets. The market for them is not going to magically get better

I think Portland will spend several seasons in the lottery wilderness

[dckingsfan]

the last 100 seconds of that game, for Simons and his hero-ball-hog mode, was one of the worst performances I've seen by a NBA player in clutch time. Yeah, probably some recency bias there, but geeeeezuzzz, Simons was bad (and yeah, some of that is on Billups for apparently calling those plays)

I don't think Grant or Scoot touched the ball in the final 2 minutes

Simons-Ayton-Grant took 57 of Portland's 90 shots (63%), and they played 36-33-40 minutes respectively. I know there are people here happy with that distribution; I'm not one of them. It's not what I was hoping to see this season, but I guess it's what I expected from the Cronin/Billups duo. Knowing those 3 will be the featured Blazers frees up a lot of evenings this winter. I won't tune in to watch that mediocre big-3

And yet, they were an Avdija 1-9 instead going 3-9 from a win. Better than I expected.

Yeah, 17 minutes of overlap on Simmons & Scoot. It won't get really bad until you have 48 minutes of overlap on Simmons, Sharpe & Scoot, IMO.

What I liked is that Clingan collected 6 rebounds, 4 blocks and 4 points on one shot in 14 minutes. Solid pick. And Camara is looking very solid.

[Blaze the Nugz]

I think Portland will spend several seasons in the lottery wilderness

It's very possible that we draft a franchise player next summer. Combined with a real coach and the development of Scoot, Sharpe, Clingan, et al, several more seasons in the lottery would be pretty wild. Of course, it's all contingent on lottery luck and nailing the draft.

[Tim Lehrbach]

Apparently unable to stop straddling fences

Good post, but I continue to disagree with this sentiment. The Blazers are in their second year of tanking hard, and the previous two seasons they committed to tanking as soon as injuries made clear they weren't making a playoff run.

The personnel decisions indicate to me that there was no godfather picks offer for Dame and that there is no value to be returned for Ayton, Grant, and Simons. We can't just assume Cronin won't move these guys. I'd prefer to see them gone, too, but what would dumping them do for the rebuild, anyway? They aren't costing the Blazers losses towards the tank, and they aren't blocking opportunities for the kids. They're just eating minutes and shots that somebody has to take, while commanding a horrid team.

I maintain that this team has been in a deep rebuild for 3 years already, that they couldn't admit to such until the inevitable breakup with Lillard, and that so far the rebuild just hasn't yielded any lucky draft hits. This could go on for years, and yes, it may include the Blazers paying out for some middling veterans along the way. Doesn't mean they're "straddling fences." This, and not whatever sorcery they do in Oklahoma City, is what a rebuild usually looks like.

EDIT: Don't mistake this for confidence in the front office, btw. I believe they have firmly committed to a direction, but I do not believe they are knowingly steering the team towards any kind of great future. I think most rebuilding teams just suck for a long time. At this point, only draft luck can save the Blazers.

EDIT2: Now, if Simons and Ayton get extended or re-signed to massive deals, FML.

[monopoman]

Apparently unable to stop straddling fences

Good post, but I continue to disagree with this sentiment. The Blazers are in their second year of tanking hard, and the previous two seasons they committed to tanking as soon as injuries made clear they weren't making a playoff run.

The personnel decisions indicate to me that there was no godfather picks offer for Dame and that there is no value to be returned for Ayton, Grant, and Simons. We can't just assume Cronin won't move these guys. I'd prefer to see them gone, too, but what would dumping them do for the rebuild, anyway? They aren't costing the Blazers losses towards the tank, and they aren't blocking opportunities for the kids. They're just eating minutes and shots that somebody has to take, while commanding a horrid team.

I maintain that this team has been in a deep rebuild for 3 years already, that they couldn't admit to such until the inevitable breakup with Lillard, and that so far the rebuild just hasn't yielded any lucky draft hits. This could go on for years, and yes, it may include the Blazers paying out for some middling veterans along the way. Doesn't mean they're "straddling fences." This, and not whatever sorcery they do in Oklahoma City, is what a rebuild usually looks like.

EDIT: Don't mistake this for confidence in the front office, btw. I believe they have firmly committed to a direction, but I do not believe they are knowingly steering the team towards any kind of great future. I think most rebuilding teams just suck for a long time. At this point, only draft luck can save the Blazers.

EDIT2: Now, if Simons and Ayton get extended or re-signed to massive deals, FML.

OKC would look a lot more iffy if they didn't have Shai blow up into a much better player than some thought at the time. Portland has avoided this for quite a while having the quick turnaround of Lillard become a star shortly after we lost Roy, and before that drafting Roy+LMA after we had like a rough year with Zbo+Miles has made the Blazers pretty competitive for a while.

Yes we never were a true top tier juggernaut but we avoided ever being really bad for a long period of time. It's the classic grass is greener on the other side thing that everyone thinks. They are like "Man I wish my team was like, the Celtics or the Warriors." when plenty of teams are in a far worse spot overall.

**** this might be the first true rebuild the Blazers have done in a very long time, unless you count 1-2 years of being bad then hitting a very good player easily in the draft as rebuilds.

I also can't really see any moves the Blazers could have made as far as the draft goes to get way better, we have been pretty damn good at drafting so far, we just need this team to get a truly elite player or the roster to understand how to fully maximize what they have to win.

[BlazersBroncos]

Apparently unable to stop straddling fences

Good post, but I continue to disagree with this sentiment. The Blazers are in their second year of tanking hard, and the previous two seasons they committed to tanking as soon as injuries made clear they weren't making a playoff run.

The personnel decisions indicate to me that there was no godfather picks offer for Dame and that there is no value to be returned for Ayton, Grant, and Simons. We can't just assume Cronin won't move these guys. I'd prefer to see them gone, too, but what would dumping them do for the rebuild, anyway? They aren't costing the Blazers losses towards the tank, and they aren't blocking opportunities for the kids. They're just eating minutes and shots that somebody has to take, while commanding a horrid team.

I maintain that this team has been in a deep rebuild for 3 years already, that they couldn't admit to such until the inevitable breakup with Lillard, and that so far the rebuild just hasn't yielded any lucky draft hits. This could go on for years, and yes, it may include the Blazers paying out for some middling veterans along the way. Doesn't mean they're "straddling fences." This, and not whatever sorcery they do in Oklahoma City, is what a rebuild usually looks like.

EDIT: Don't mistake this for confidence in the front office, btw. I believe they have firmly committed to a direction, but I do not believe they are knowingly steering the team towards any kind of great future. I think most rebuilding teams just suck for a long time. At this point, only draft luck can save the Blazers.

EDIT2: Now, if Simons and Ayton get extended or re-signed to massive deals, FML.

OKC would look a lot more iffy if they didn't have Shai blow up into a much better player than some thought at the time. Portland has avoided this for quite a while having the quick turnaround of Lillard become a star shortly after we lost Roy, and before that drafting Roy+LMA after we had like a rough year with Zbo+Miles has made the Blazers pretty competitive for a while.

Yes we never were a true top tier juggernaut but we avoided ever being really bad for a long period of time. It's the classic grass is greener on the other side thing that everyone thinks. They are like "Man I wish my team was like, the Celtics or the Warriors." when plenty of teams are in a far worse spot overall.

**** this might be the first true rebuild the Blazers have done in a very long time, unless you count 1-2 years of being bad then hitting a very good player easily in the draft as rebuilds.

I also can't really see any moves the Blazers could have made as far as the draft goes to get way better, we have been pretty damn good at drafting so far, we just need this team to get a truly elite player or the roster to understand how to fully maximize what they have to win.

Even removing SGA that OKC team is light years ahead of us with Chet and Jalen, not to mention a million future FRP.

Both Chet and Jalen are clearly trending higher than any of our best young prospects.if we had a single guy of Chet or Jalen’s caliber we would be viewing this team in a different, more optimistic lense.

[mighty_duck]

also, quick question. how many teams become successful after multiple years of tanking ? just wondering

* Golden State was in the lottery in 10 of 11 years before they assembled the team that won 4 championships

GS was in the lottery for 17 of 18 years before the 4 championship dynasty. But they were not actively tanking - they just invested in sub-all star talent like Monta Ellis, Jason Richardson and Antwan Jamison.
That sounds familiar.

[monopoman]

also, quick question. how many teams become successful after multiple years of tanking ? just wondering

* Golden State was in the lottery in 10 of 11 years before they assembled the team that won 4 championships

GS was in the lottery for 17 of 18 years before the 4 championship dynasty. But they were not actively tanking - they just invested in sub-all star talent like Monta Ellis, Jason Richardson and Antwan Jamison.
That sounds familiar.

What corrected them was having a very good string of draft picks, from 2009-2012 they drafted three great players.

Steph Curry (2009)
Klay Thompson (2011)
Draymond Green (2012)

They also were extremely fortunate to have the cap blow up that one year that allowed them to sign KD, sure even without KD they would have won some championships but it's a lot easier to win when you have four great players. ****, you could argue at their peak strength that the Warriors have one of the all-time great rosters.

[mighty_duck]

* Golden State was in the lottery in 10 of 11 years before they assembled the team that won 4 championships

GS was in the lottery for 17 of 18 years before the 4 championship dynasty. But they were not actively tanking - they just invested in sub-all star talent like Monta Ellis, Jason Richardson and Antwan Jamison.
That sounds familiar.

What corrected them was having a very good string of draft picks, from 2009-2012 they drafted three great players.

Steph Curry (2009)
Klay Thompson (2011)
Draymond Green (2012)

They also were extremely fortunate to have the cap blow up that one year that allowed them to sign KD, sure even without KD they would have won some championships but it's a lot easier to win when you have four great players. ****, you could argue at their peak strength that the Warriors have one of the all-time great rosters.

Yup, smart drafting is key. But none of them was a really high draft pick (Curry 7th, Klay 11th, Draymond 35th). Which is back to my point that tanking wasn't what built that dynasty.

I'd also add Harrison Barnes (7th in 2012) who was key to getting the first championship and subsequent 73 win season. In turn, those two seasons were a key to getting KD with the cap, as opposed to, say, using the cap to overpay Turner, Crabbe, Leonard and CJ.

[Walton1one]

Simons-Ayton-Grant took 57 of Portland's 90 shots (63%), and they played 36-33-40 minutes respectively.

Those players are eventually going to be moved. I know for a fact they're not in Cronin's long term plans. It's about when and the when is "when" there's a good deal and not one Cronin settles on. I'm expecting at least two of the three moved by the trade deadline. That's when teams get more desperate when they either are in the race for a deep run, or think they are.

If it helps the tank for a top draft pick, I'm all for it. It's not like Sharpe is ready to play right now anyway.

OK, I read this and did a double take. I hope you are right, I have severe reservations about Cronin's ultimate goals. If Grant and\or Ant are dealt then I will skew more towards your view, until then I remain skeptical.