It's Official! Shaq is a Phoenix Sun!

[BlackMamba]

well, about that they could have gotten something better for marion, to think that it was said that they were close on getting garnett for marion...


and about spykes comments on the trade of gasol, i think when many were asleep the lakers took the advantage and made the necessary trade to keep them at the top of the western conference.

now some teams maybe won't be that scared to make a big trade this season.

[swede]

I really, really like this trade for PHX. I have been getting blasted all day for that stance but so be-it. If you haven't watched PHX this year, they aren't the PHX of old. Their window is brief, and this move is absolutely perfect.

[Spykes]

I think it's safe to say that the deal is done. Anyone wanting to see what Shaq looks like in a Suns jersey, just check out the Suns homepage...

http://www.phoenixsuns.com

[Mr Odd]

Pritchards turn now.. .

[Spykes]

Pritchards turn now.. .

Unless someone is willing to trade a star for Raef and Green or McRoberts (which honestly isn't that much worse than what the Grizz got for Gasol), then I hope Pritchard stays away from making a deal.

[Mr Odd]

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Unless someone is willing to trade a star for Raef and Green or McRoberts (which honestly isn't that much worse than what the Grizz got for Gasol), then I hope Pritchard stays away from making a deal.

Im thinking Jack. It might be smart to
move him now instead of around draft
time. Jack will have lower value around
draft time because GMs will more likely
think of Rudy & know Jack is expendable.

Theres no way the Blazers are going to
get a Gasol type deal, im not thinking
that & no one else should either. I just
think Pritchard needs to improve the
team before the trade deadline to help
stay in the playoff hunt, even if the
improvement is small.. .

[breaker91]

So this trade opens a roster spot for the Suns. They are talking about Frahm, but I think the self proclaimed Kobe stopper would be a good pick up for the Suns. They need his defense with Marion off to Miami.

[Spykes]

Theres no way the Blazers are going to
get a Gasol type deal, im not thinking
that & no one else should either. I just
think Pritchard needs to improve the
team before the trade deadline to help
stay in the playoff hunt, even if the
improvement is small.. .

I can pretty much guarantee Pritchard won't make that kind of move. Like it or not, the playoffs aren't KP's primary concern this season. He's said as much. This season is about the team continuing to grow, that means you don't make some patchwork move to have a one and done in the playoffs this year. I know us as fans would love to see the Blazers in the playoffs this year, but it just isn't realistic to expect a move from KP during the season. If it happens and a great deal comes across the table, so be it. But I think you're just setting yourself up for disappointment if you are expecting it.

Also, you have to figure that no one we get in return for Jack is going to make us a playoff contender. For one, he doesn't make enough to really get an us impact player back. Secondly, he's not good enough on his own to get us an impact player that can get us to the playoffs.

[kdawg32086]

I think this trade means we're gonna be making a move(or moves) at the deadline. I got a feeling that we're gonna do just enough to make sure we get into the playoffs. I'm hoping its a Jack/Frye/filler for Devin Haris deal....

[Spykes]

Ever since I heard that rumor of us getting Harris, I'm hoping more and more that it can get done. He really would be perfect for us.

[Mr Odd]

Ever since I heard that rumor of us getting Harris, I'm hoping more and more that it can get done. He really would be perfect for us.

I would LOVE for it to happen, aslong as Outlaw stays put.

Dallas does need to make a move to keep up with L.A. & PHX.

Blazers need to make a move not so much to keep up but
to improve the team. The Blazers are lacking another guard
who can create a shot for himself or others, we just have Roy.

[PhilipNelsonFan]

I cannot believe this Shaq deal. I'm at a loss for words.

[Fitz303]

Supposedly Dallas was trying to get Shaq from Miami before this deal ended up going down. Perhaps its time to re-visit the Kidd idea,huh Dallas?!?!

[Spykes]

I would LOVE for it to happen, aslong as Outlaw stays put.

Dallas does need to make a move to keep up with L.A. & PHX.

They do need to make a move, but the problem is that they don't really need to upgrade at PG. They need to get help up front. I don't know if there is anyone available anymore though.

Blazers need to make a move not so much to keep up but
to improve the team. The Blazers are lacking another guard
who can create a shot for himself or others, we just have Roy.

That'd be great, but where exactly can we get one of those without giving up something we don't want to lose?

[tsherkin]

Alright, I did it on the GenBoard, the Phoenix board, the Miami board and now it looks like I have to do it here.

Shaq in Phoenix, presuming Shaq is able to retain a modicum of health (which, given their training staff, seems quite likely), this is a good trade for Phoenix.

First of all, it moves Amare to the 4.

This is positive.

Even if Shaq is as ground-bound as he's been so far for the rest of the season, sheer size and wingspan and the fact that he puts his hands up on D and contests shots will make him more effective on D. Amare blocks shots but he plays man-on D with his hands down and gets pushed around by guys with size. That won't happen to Shaq. He may struggle with a guy like Duncan, but let's not forget that Duncan is a great player on a great and very balanced team and that it's no sin to let Duncan get 20/10 as long as you make him work for it at least a little.

A corollary to this is that Amare may foul a little less frequently, which would be a boon for him and his defensive coverages should be easier for him to handle.

Marion's a fine defender until he's matched on someone who knows how to post up. He plays a good 8 more minutes per game than does Shaq but Boris Diaw, who will be replacing his minutes for the most part, will thrive as a result and he finishes well on the break too, he can catch oops and fill running lanes just fine and he's also a considerably superior ball-handler to Marion, so he'll be able to ease some of the pressure off of Nash AND act as another high post weapon (as he did in '06).

Now let's talk offense; while it's true that Marion finished a lot of fast breaks, they have Hill and they have Diaw, Bell, Barbosa, they still have tons of guys who can leak out and finish... and now that they have a rather large man in Shaq, they can afford to leak out more because they know he'll be after the defensive boards and so he can perform the historical role of slower big guys on transition teams... outlet passing.

The very first thing you need to do in order to run is to gain possession and Shaq will thrive in that role, especially because he's a great passer. While we're discussing offense, let's talk offensive rebounding.

The Suns are the worst offensive rebounding team in the league right now, by a significant margin.

This trade? Fixes that. Shaq's averaging 3 orpg in 28.5 mpg; Marion was averaging 1.8 in 36.4. Shaq's DOUBLED Marion's offensive rebounding rate. Whatever problems he's had, hitting the offensive glass has NOT been one of them. Extended possessions = second chance points and those are valuable because they not only result in baskets but possessions denied to their opponents, a sort of tacit defense-through-offense.

Now you can talk about the Suns having traded a player who can't create his own shot for a player who can create shots that he can hit at 58% and who can facilitate shots for others. You still have to double him, even if he's playing limited minutes and is more foul- and turnover-prone than in past seasons. He's still shooting 58% from the floor, still drawing fouls at 21.5% DrawF or 0.5 FTA/FGA, which is huge. He's going to put a lot more pressure on the opposition frontcourt than did Marion.

So while it's likely that the Suns will slow down a little, they'll be more effective in playoff-style basketball, they'll be better on interior D, better on the offensive glass and Shaq may experience an uptick in his defensive rebounding and assists.

I'd also like to point out the concurrent effect he'll have on Amare... he'll be sucking the help defender to him while Amare peels off of those high screens he sets for Nash and co all the time, making it a lot easier for Amare to get all the way to the rim and finish And-1 scenarios, draw fouls, avoid charges, etc. That's another fairly significant effect that you're likely to see.

Now, a bit of history...

Here is a list of teams who played at what today would be, at the SLOWEST, the second-fastest teams in the league (mostly #1 by far) and who operated transition games with slow big men:

'77 title Blazers
Showtime Lakers
Bird's Celtics

You can even look at the contemporary Spurs with Duncan; when they want to, they execute a beautiful fast break and Duncan isn't a fast big man at all but and Oberto know how to corral a rebound, turn in the air and fire a fast outlet past to the streakers (Parker, Manu, etc).

Shaq doesn't have to get past the halfcourt line to help the team score in transition; Parish rarely did... Old Kareem certainly didn't... and Broken Bill Walton? He could run sometimes but he was hindered a lot. A pass is faster than a quick-running player anyway.

Most of the time, you're stupid to have all 5 of your guys jet up and down the court.

If all five guys book it at the same time, you don't get a staggered rush, which is much more effective anyway. You want to have a secondary break. Really, your optimal situations are 2-1, 3-1 and 3-2... anything else and the floor gets too crowded. You're getting behind the defense, breaking it up and then your trailers hit and BAM, you get that secondary rush as the big guys start streaking through as cutters. That's how you run transition ball.

Shaq? Shaq can leave the running to the guards, Hill, Diaw and Amare and focus on rebounding and passing. Then when he DOES get up the court, they run a halfcourt set.

Shaq fits just fine in Phoenix, people. As long as he's healthy, and that's an admittedly significant caveat, he'll likely make them a lot better.

[Wizenheimer]

.............
Shaq fits just fine in Phoenix, people. As long as he's healthy, and that's an admittedly significant caveat, he'll likely make them a lot better.

that last part is important of course, Shaq'a health is a question mark.

But as others have noted, Shaq may have been just coasting through this season and this new situation will motivate him. I think that's likely.

And the Sun's primary division rival just made a big trade as well. And adding Gasol to the Laker's frontline arguably slows the Laker offence down a bit as well.

The biggest concern I'd have if I were a Sun's fan is just how well Shaq and Amare can mesh in the half-court offense. I think this changes Amare's floor assignments and moves him futher away from the basket. how will this affect his game?...I'm not sure. It will be interesting though.

[tsherkin]

that last part is important of course, Shaq'a health is a question mark.

But as others have noted, Shaq may have been just coasting through this season and this new situation will motivate him. I think that's likely.

And the Suns have a really stunning training staff, their medical staff is really quite amazing. You should see what they've done with Steve Nash... I'm surprised the man can walk, let alone play basketball.

The biggest concern I'd have if I were a Sun's fan is just how well Shaq and Amare can mesh in the half-court offense. I think this changes Amare's floor assignments and moves him futher away from the basket. how will this affect his game?...I'm not sure. It will be interesting though.

It's not a problem; he's a natural PF anyway and, more to the point, Shaq's only going to be playing 25-30 mpg, so Amare will still spend 10-20 minutes a game playing his spot at the 5 anyhow.

But remember, Amare's "spots" on the floor are mostly him moving to set high side screens and then peeling off for the roll or the pop, nowhere near the spots on the floor that Shaq occupies. Lanes in transition? No way Shaq'll keep up with a deer-like big man the likes of Amare, so that's no problem either.

And remember Amare can iso from basically 18 feet and in because of the range on his jumper and his ability to handle the ball out of triple-threat and on the drive to the hoop, which he does frequently. He'll mesh fine with Shaq, because his game occupies most of the same spots that Haslem's does... only he's much more prolific a scorer.

This doesn't do anything to Amare's game, really, it just makes it easier.

[Wizenheimer]

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It's not a problem; he's a natural PF anyway and, more to the point, Shaq's only going to be playing 25-30 mpg, so Amare will still spend 10-20 minutes a game playing his spot at the 5 anyhow.

But remember, Amare's "spots" on the floor are mostly him moving to set high side screens and then peeling off for the roll or the pop, nowhere near the spots on the floor that Shaq occupies. Lanes in transition? No way Shaq'll keep up with a deer-like big man the likes of Amare, so that's no problem either.

And remember Amare can iso from basically 18 feet and in because of the range on his jumper and his ability to handle the ball out of triple-threat and on the drive to the hoop, which he does frequently. He'll mesh fine with Shaq, because his game occupies most of the same spots that Haslem's does... only he's much more prolific a scorer.

This doesn't do anything to Amare's game, really, it just makes it easier.

good points

it will certainly add some interest to watching suns/lakers games. From a NBA fan's perspective this is a great trade.

Joel Pryzbilla gets to face Shaq 5 times this season....he's probably not thrilled though.

[tsherkin]

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good points

it will certainly add some interest to watching suns/lakers games. From a NBA fan's perspective this is a great trade.

Joel Pryzbilla gets to face Shaq 5 times this season....he's probably not thrilled though.

Hehehe. Well, Portland just needs to worry about Golden State and the 8th seed, not Phoenix and what they're doing up on high.