Has Martell Really Improved?

[ebott]

so you don't care about the cap-space plan?

The cap space plan is still a season away. There's no need to worry that Martell isn't living up to expectations.

In fact, it's probably better for the cap space plan that he isn't. Much like Outlaw last season, we'll probably be able to get him for a sub MLE deal. If we can keep him around for 3-4 mil per I'd be happy.

I'm moving toward your side of thinking that Martell hasn't really improved. Or at least he hasn't improved in the things that we want him to be improving in, which is knocking down outside shots and spreading the defense. That's what would make him really valuable to the team.

So I'm thinking I don't see him as a starter long term. But as a decent backup making decent backup type money he could be a useful part of the team. So we've got a year and then we'll see if we can resign him for that type of scratch.

[Wizenheimer]

The cap space plan is still a season away. There's no need to worry that Martell isn't living up to expectations.

In fact, it's probably better for the cap space plan that he isn't. Much like Outlaw last season, we'll probably be able to get him for a sub MLE deal. If we can keep him around for 3-4 mil per I'd be happy.

I'm moving toward your side of thinking that Martell hasn't really improved. Or at least he hasn't improved in the things that we want him to be improving in, which is knocking down outside shots and spreading the defense. That's what would make him really valuable to the team.

So I'm thinking I don't see him as a starter long term. But as a decent backup making decent backup type money he could be a useful part of the team. So we've got a year and then we'll see if we can resign him for that type of scratch.

A couple of months ago I advocated extending Martell's contract this summer if he is willing to sign for 3-4.5 million, and you know my opinion on his development. But then, I think he's not going to have a lot of value this summer entering the 4th season of his rookie contract. That seems to be the nature of rookie contracts.

Anyway, having decent players on attractive tradeable contracts is always a plus in my view, especially with an aggressive GM. He'd be BYC till the 2009 off-season, but that's not bad really.

And of course, portland needs to determine whether James Jones will opt-out and if they can resign him. And also determine if Rudy is actually going to come over. Those 2 events will probably control what happens to Martell.

In other words, IMO, extending Martell's contract this summer allows the most options for Portland. It won't force them to renounce the rights to him because of the ridiculous cap-hold if cap-space is a priority. It keeps alive the hope that Martell can reach some of that potential and portland is the team that benefits. And it gives portland an asset heading into future seasons.

Your idea of witing till next year would work I suppose. However...and I could have this wrong...portland would either have to submit the QO which is over 5 million (and too much for martell in my view), or allow Martell to become UFA by not submitting the QO. (If they offer the QO and martell accepts then they are locked into the 5 million payout) They could then offer him 4 million a year and say he has 48 hours to accept or they renounce their bird rights.

[ebott]

I think I agree with your idea that we should sign Martell to an extension this off-season. He's developed to the point where I'm calling him a keeper. I want him to be a Blazer for the rest of his career.

But a good deal of that might be because I love him as much as one straight man can love another straight man that he's never met. Scratch that, I met him during the 2006 draft party. Not like it matters that I met him once. It has no effect on my love for him.

Anyway, if we do wait 'til 2009 I'm not so worried about the cap hold or the being worried about having to renounce him as I'm confident we'd sign him at a reasonable price. The bigger problem for me is that the whole process of re-signing a restricted free agent always seems to take FOR-EVER! And with Martell's 3 x 3.7 on our books it'll screw any chance of signing a big time free agent.

But maybe that's not a real concern. As we've discussed ad-nauseam, there just won't be any free agents worth giving that kind of money to in '09.

[Tim Lehrbach]

I don't think there's any chance Martell will sign a contract extension this summer that starts lower than his 2009-2010 qualifying offer (about $5 million).

[SinceClyde]

Don't you mean Martell's agent?

[farzi]

HE looked improved last night

[Wizenheimer]

I don't think there's any chance Martell will sign a contract extension this summer that starts lower than his 2009-2010 qualifying offer (about $5 million).

maybe not, but he's not going to get that much from portland unless he dramatically improves in next few monts

[ebott]

Wizenheimer - I'd like to take this moment to rub your face in the fact that Martell has had two good games with a winning result. Outlaw has been HORRIBLE in both games.

If you weren't aware, the previous two games where Outlaw had a good game and Martell had bad games resulted in loses.

This brings me to my ultimate face rubbing point that even if Outlaw is a better player than Webster, I present the last four games as evidence that Martell being a major part of the team will result in wins and Outlaw doing so results in loses. Adding to my Martell > Outlaw argument

ps. Mentioning that Golden State and Phoenix are good teams and Milwaukee and New York are bad teams is weak sauce.

[Fitz303]

Wizenheimer - I'd like to take this moment to rub your face in the fact that Martell has had two good games with a winning result. Outlaw has been HORRIBLE in both games.

If you weren't aware, the previous two games where Outlaw had a good game and Martell had bad games resulted in loses.

This brings me to my ultimate face rubbing point that even if Outlaw is a better player than Webster, I present the last four games as evidence that Martell being a major part of the team will result in wins and Outlaw doing so results in loses. Adding to my Martell > Outlaw argument

ps. Mentioning that Golden State and Phoenix are good teams and Milwaukee and New York are bad teams is weak sauce.

Although im not Wiz, Thats a HUGE point.. Thats the major point in itself. You've made my point before I went to argue it. But other than that, I am very happy with the way Webster has played in 2 days. I REALLY hope he can keep doing this for the last 19 games. Do I think he will? No... If he does, then KP has a real situation on his hands, and a good one to have at that.

Im just not excited about it over 2 games, much like people werent excited with travis over 2 games. Hes gotta show consistency. Go look at Websters game log. He played great for the first 5 games or so and fell off after. hes had the 26 point game followed by a 16 point game and then fell off after. He shows flashes and then disappears. Im not saying Webster wont be good. I think in about 3 years he could easily be as good as outlaw at that point. My issue is that someone is going to be traded. There arent enough minutes to go around.. The only way this works out with everyone staying is if either Oden is down for another year (not cool), or Rudy doesnt come over this year and Jack is traded (Webster can slide over and play SG). Other than that, someone is going to HAVE to be moved

In conclusion, this doesnt have much to do with his improvement other than the fact that hes consistently inconsistent. This is more of me hoping that he continues to play well and that way either him or Outlaw (whichever one we dont keep for the future) can help bring us a PG of real value in return

[Wizenheimer]

Wizenheimer - I'd like to take this moment to rub your face in the fact that Martell has had two good games with a winning result. Outlaw has been HORRIBLE in both games.

If you weren't aware, the previous two games where Outlaw had a good game and Martell had bad games resulted in loses.

This brings me to my ultimate face rubbing point that even if Outlaw is a better player than Webster, I present the last four games as evidence that Martell being a major part of the team will result in wins and Outlaw doing so results in loses. Adding to my Martell > Outlaw argument

ps. Mentioning that Golden State and Phoenix are good teams and Milwaukee and New York are bad teams is weak sauce.

lol...are you really sure you want to rub my face?...hey!...as long as you're in a rubbing mood....

anyway, good games from martell, bad games by travis. To this point in time of course, travis has had a better season.

If Martell can maintain this level of play for the rest of the season, I might be changing my mind. But I'm more inclined to be persuaded by his first 204 games rather then the last 2.

honestly, I hope he does get it together and I think there's enough possibility of that, it's why I suggested portland try and extend his contract this summer, if you recall.

[edwinko]

a bit off topic . I don't like the fact that outlaw keeps shooting wild shots(although he hits a decent amount of them) and his tendency of getting out of control.lack of basketball IQ (ala Jack). his weakness may get exposed in future playoffs where defense gets tougher. I think his value is at peak right now and I certainly wouldn't mind if KP packages him + Jack for a higher draft pick or a veteran PG in the summer

[UGotThrilled]

a bit off topic . I don't like the fact that outlaw keeps shooting wild shots(although he hits a decent amount of them) and his tendency of getting out of control.lack of basketball IQ (ala Jack). his weakness may get exposed in future playoffs where defense gets tougher. I think his value is at peak right now and I certainly wouldn't mind if KP packages him + Jack for a higher draft pick or a veteran PG in the summer

I disagree. I think that Outlaw will continue to improve, and I think with how hard his shot is to stop, tougher defenses wont affect him much. The thing is, he takes equally difficult shots, tough defense or not, so I dont see that as a plus. He will continue to shoot the same in the playoffs, whereas other players who take as good of shots as possible will not be able to get the easy shots they do now. I dont see him as untouchable, but I definitely am not looking to deal him. I would like to move up in the draft, but I am hesitant to do it at the cost of proven talent.

[SinceClyde]

Consistency is the name of the game. Would Lebron be Lebron if he had 3 of these crazy 40 point games a season, 1 triple double, and mediocre the rest of the season? If a player is inconsistent, then they have work to do. I know Lebron is a bad example in a thread about Martell, but the point of it was consistency...so put away the pitchforks.

Any debate over Travis and Martell is silly. Any debate over the last two games is VERY silly. There is no question that Travis has had a more impressive season. Martell has improved, but needs to become consistent to be worth what his agent and him may ask for. The argument of giving time for Travis to develop paying off in dividends? Why shouldn't that be applied to Martell? Both young, out of high school. Both inconsistent at the beginning of their career.

I wouldn't give up on Martell, but he obviously has work to do. If KP get's a great offer for him, seeya 'Tell. Otherwise, it's going to be tough to bring in Kapponen, Freeland, or one of our second round picks this season and hope for them to be as good as Martell should be or even as good as he is now.

[PhilipNelsonFan]

so you don't care about the cap-space plan?

This is a little late in coming but...have I ever?

My biggest point of contention right now is that Webster and Outlaw both should remain Trail Blazers through this offseason. I'll elaborate later as to exactly why.