ImageImage

Portland's Off-Season Has Officially Arrived

Moderators: Moonbeam, DeBlazerRiddem, The Sebastian Express

7-12-52
Senior
Posts: 588
And1: 375
Joined: Sep 10, 2009

Re: Portland's Off-Season Has Officially Arrived 

Post#321 » by 7-12-52 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:04 am

cucad8 wrote:
7-12-52 wrote:
cucad8 wrote:I'm a fan of the Blazers. I don't see what trading Dame accomplishes, other than resetting heartache for fans. It shifts it from we're not good enough and we'll never be to...maybe we'll draft someone in the coming years as good as Dame!


And you'd rather the team just move to Seattle than have to experience that or what?



hy·per·bo·le
hīˈpərbəlē/Submit
noun
exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.


non·sense
ˈnänˌsens,ˈnänsəns/
noun
1.
spoken or written words that have no meaning or make no sense.
2.
foolish or unacceptable behavior.

Your response about Seattle was 2 sentences long. If you don't want a response to your hyperbole include something else with it.
cucad8
Head Coach
Posts: 6,427
And1: 561
Joined: May 27, 2007

Re: Portland's Off-Season Has Officially Arrived 

Post#322 » by cucad8 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:22 am

My response about moving the team to Seattle was hyperbole in response to the seemingly defeatist attitude that because another team is currently better, there's nothing we can do to top them, so better to have years of misery tearing it all down to nothing, because false hope is best.
zzaj
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,991
And1: 1,109
Joined: Jul 12, 2006

Re: Portland's Off-Season Has Officially Arrived 

Post#323 » by zzaj » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:24 am

It's funny, since we're talking about rebuilds vs. competing now...

Some of my favorite seasons have been 'rebuilding' seasons. Lots of young players and seeing year by year how they develop. I also was a fan of the Jailblazers. I took a weird pride in the team in those years...
7-12-52
Senior
Posts: 588
And1: 375
Joined: Sep 10, 2009

Re: Portland's Off-Season Has Officially Arrived 

Post#324 » by 7-12-52 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:32 am

cucad8 wrote:My response about moving the team to Seattle was hyperbole in response to the seemingly defeatist attitude that because another team is currently better, there's nothing we can do to top them, so better to have years of misery tearing it all down to nothing, because false hope is best.


Ok but do you honestly think there is a route to winning anytime soon? You call it false hope but I would call the current state a position of no hope if we are actually striving for a championship. Is false hope really worse than no hope as many fans see it?

I could turn around and say your attitude is the defeatist one. You have resigned yourself to the concept that 49 wins is a perch the Blazers should cling to. You are the one that seems to think the Blazers can't draft anyone better than Lillard when he isn't even top 3 at his position.

You're ignoring that many Blazers fans are already miserable. I have a hard time knowing when someone making cracks about the team moving are just engaging in hyperbole when I find myself wavering after 25+ years of fandom. My friends and family gave up long ago. I'm sorry that I misjudged the intent with your post but it was based on the current mood surrounding the team.
cucad8
Head Coach
Posts: 6,427
And1: 561
Joined: May 27, 2007

Re: Portland's Off-Season Has Officially Arrived 

Post#325 » by cucad8 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:44 am

7-12-52 wrote:
cucad8 wrote:My response about moving the team to Seattle was hyperbole in response to the seemingly defeatist attitude that because another team is currently better, there's nothing we can do to top them, so better to have years of misery tearing it all down to nothing, because false hope is best.


Ok but do you honestly think there is a route to winning anytime soon? You call it false hope but I would call the current state a position of no hope if we are actually striving for a championship. Is false hope really worse than no hope as many fans see it?

I could turn around and say your attitude is the defeatist one. You have resigned yourself to the concept that 49 wins is a perch the Blazers should cling to. You are the one that seems to think the Blazers can't draft anyone better than Lillard when he isn't even top 3 at his position.

You're ignoring that many Blazers fans are already miserable. I have a hard time knowing when someone making cracks about the team moving are just engaging in hyperbole when I find myself wavering after 25+ years of fandom. My friends and family gave up long ago. I'm sorry that I misjudged the intent with your post but it was based on the current mood surrounding the team.


No, I apologize. Was adding a quick comment between other things, and could/should have added more. Ok that you took it the wrong way. I was being hyperbolic on it. I just think our approach, ultimately, will be similar to the Dallas Mavericks approach of adding pieces around Dirk until lightning strikes. And it sounds like that's Neil's plan. And what Paul likely wants. So blow it up, trade Lillard plans ultimately go NBA2K to me, because they aren't likely to fit what the braintrust is going to do. Fun to think about? I always like making up trades. But just seems like it's not what has been expressed within. And then we get a frustrated fan base that we didn't strip it all down or build Rome in a day.
7-12-52
Senior
Posts: 588
And1: 375
Joined: Sep 10, 2009

Re: Portland's Off-Season Has Officially Arrived 

Post#326 » by 7-12-52 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:08 am

cucad8 wrote:
No, I apologize. Was adding a quick comment between other things, and could/should have added more. Ok that you took it the wrong way. I was being hyperbolic on it. I just think our approach, ultimately, will be similar to the Dallas Mavericks approach of adding pieces around Dirk until lightning strikes. And it sounds like that's Neil's plan. And what Paul likely wants. So blow it up, trade Lillard plans ultimately go NBA2K to me, because they aren't likely to fit what the braintrust is going to do. Fun to think about? I always like making up trades. But just seems like it's not what has been expressed within. And then we get a frustrated fan base that we didn't strip it all down or build Rome in a day.


Nothing against Damian but do you really think he is comparable to Dirk? Dirk is a first ballot hall of famer and top 3-5 all time at his position. Damian is likely in the 3-5 range for his position among current players.

You say blowing it up is the NBA2k route but the idea of winning a championship with a 3-5 ranked point guard as your best player sounds even more like video game cheese to me.
Norm2953
RealGM
Posts: 10,743
And1: 442
Joined: May 17, 2003
Location: Oregon

Re: Portland's Off-Season Has Officially Arrived 

Post#327 » by Norm2953 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:57 pm

I'm for taking a longer term approach but there is nothing wrong with presenting a pleasing product
on the court. Stressing out to produce a team capable of challenging the GSW is not going to happen
even if we had $100 Million in cap space for no all NBA level talent is coming to Portland in free
agency.

With the current roster, fix the salary structure problems that were created in 2016. Be up front with
Dame with the realities in Portland and if he wants to compete for a championship, send him on his
way if it makes sense for Portland. Focus on the draft and guys we can control after their rookie
contract via the RFA process.
7-12-52
Senior
Posts: 588
And1: 375
Joined: Sep 10, 2009

Re: Portland's Off-Season Has Officially Arrived 

Post#328 » by 7-12-52 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:24 pm

Norm2953 wrote:I'm for taking a longer term approach but there is nothing wrong with presenting a pleasing product
on the court. Stressing out to produce a team capable of challenging the GSW is not going to happen
even if we had $100 Million in cap space for no all NBA level talent is coming to Portland in free
agency.

With the current roster, fix the salary structure problems that were created in 2016. Be up front with
Dame with the realities in Portland and if he wants to compete for a championship, send him on his
way if it makes sense for Portland. Focus on the draft and guys we can control after their rookie
contract via the RFA process.


Demanding the team remain competitive is part of why we remain forever mediocre though. I may be missing someone but I'm only seeing 2 top 5 picks for the Blazers since Bowie in 1984 (Oden & Aldridge.)

In a star driven league we have made 2 top 5 picks in the last 34 years. You can't blame fans for eventually wanting to try another path.
User avatar
JasonStern
General Manager
Posts: 7,853
And1: 1,419
Joined: Dec 13, 2008
 

Re: Portland's Off-Season Has Officially Arrived 

Post#329 » by JasonStern » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:47 pm

DusterBuster wrote:And the simple fact that the Blazers org clearly values Collins extremely highly, and much higher than Jason does, which means the Blazers would probably struggle to agree to move him in a Love deal.


Neil Olshey wrote:if Meyer- I mean Zack Collins believed in Zack Collins as much as I do, he'd be an all-star


meanwhile, Kevin Love is a 5x all-star.

cucad8 wrote:
Norm2953 wrote:Paying out luxury taxes in a conference with the GSW and rebuilt Lakers along with the Rockets seems pointless


The problem I ultimately have with this thinking is...why even bother having a team then?


Merchandising, merchandising, where the real money from the franchise is made. Blazers - the t-shirt, Blazers -the coloring book, Blazers - the lunch box, Blazers - the "not a flamethrower".

7-12-52 wrote:In a star driven league we have made 2 top 5 picks in the last 34 years. You can't blame fans for eventually wanting to try another path.


like overvaluing our current players? wait, that was Pritchard. wait, that is Olshey...
Image
User avatar
OGLife
Veteran
Posts: 2,625
And1: 6,144
Joined: Jan 29, 2015
   

Re: Portland's Off-Season Has Officially Arrived 

Post#330 » by OGLife » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:49 pm

Thoughts on drafting Omari Spellman? Seems like the perfect fit with Terry and Damian
User avatar
Fitz303
Head Coach
Posts: 7,143
And1: 850
Joined: Oct 18, 2006
Location: Portland

Re: Portland's Off-Season Has Officially Arrived 

Post#331 » by Fitz303 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:31 pm

JasonStern wrote:
DusterBuster wrote:And the simple fact that the Blazers org clearly values Collins extremely highly, and much higher than Jason does, which means the Blazers would probably struggle to agree to move him in a Love deal.


Neil Olshey wrote:if Meyer- I mean Zack Collins believed in Zack Collins as much as I do, he'd be an all-star


meanwhile, Kevin Love is a 5x all-star.

cucad8 wrote:
Norm2953 wrote:Paying out luxury taxes in a conference with the GSW and rebuilt Lakers along with the Rockets seems pointless


The problem I ultimately have with this thinking is...why even bother having a team then?


Merchandising, merchandising, where the real money from the franchise is made. Blazers - the t-shirt, Blazers -the coloring book, Blazers - the lunch box, Blazers - the "not a flamethrower".

7-12-52 wrote:In a star driven league we have made 2 top 5 picks in the last 34 years. You can't blame fans for eventually wanting to try another path.


like overvaluing our current players? wait, that was Pritchard. wait, that is Olshey...


If you look at Zach Collins and see Meyers, you're just looking at his height and skin color. Not even close
User avatar
JasonStern
General Manager
Posts: 7,853
And1: 1,419
Joined: Dec 13, 2008
 

Re: Portland's Off-Season Has Officially Arrived 

Post#332 » by JasonStern » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:46 pm

Read on Twitter


Fitz303 wrote:
JasonStern wrote:
7-12-52 wrote:In a star driven league we have made 2 top 5 picks in the last 34 years. You can't blame fans for eventually wanting to try another path.


like overvaluing our current players? wait, that was Pritchard. wait, that is Olshey...


If you look at Zach Collins and see Meyers, you're just looking at his height and skin color. Not even close


:roll:

points for at least reading part of my post.

I'll try this again:

the idea of holding onto a young big that hasn't proven much in the hopes that he becomes an all-star years from now when you can acquire an all-star now is foolish when the team's best players are entering their prime. likewise, there is no guarantee that all young players will pan out. see exhibit L:

viewtopic.php?t=1369005

(less Wizenheimer's post, naturally)
Image
User avatar
Fitz303
Head Coach
Posts: 7,143
And1: 850
Joined: Oct 18, 2006
Location: Portland

Re: Portland's Off-Season Has Officially Arrived 

Post#333 » by Fitz303 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:01 pm

JasonStern wrote:
Read on Twitter


Fitz303 wrote:
JasonStern wrote:
like overvaluing our current players? wait, that was Pritchard. wait, that is Olshey...


If you look at Zach Collins and see Meyers, you're just looking at his height and skin color. Not even close


:roll:

points for at least reading part of my post.

I'll try this again:

the idea of holding onto a young big that hasn't proven much in the hopes that he becomes an all-star years from now when you can acquire an all-star now is foolish when the team's best players are entering their prime. likewise, there is no guarantee that all young players will pan out. see exhibit L:

viewtopic.php?t=1369005

(less Wizenheimer's post, naturally)


That's fine. I read the whole thing. I simply pointed out that that specific dig is just horribly inaccurate.

As for Kevin Love. The starting PF/C who anchored the 29th best team defense. The team that was bottom 10 in opponent points in the paint. That's the guy that you're willing to give up a 20 year old kid who was the 10th pick in the draft last year for? The kid with All NBA defense type potential? Kevin Love... The Shareef Abdur Rahim of the new age. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind Kevin Love, but I'm not mortgaging my future for him. You can call him an all star all you want, but he's not a cornerstone piece. No thanks.
7-12-52
Senior
Posts: 588
And1: 375
Joined: Sep 10, 2009

Re: Portland's Off-Season Has Officially Arrived 

Post#334 » by 7-12-52 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:34 am

Read on Twitter



Is this Damian threatening to demand a trade? Should we be worried by this?
The Sebastian Express
Forum Mod - Blazers
Forum Mod - Blazers
Posts: 12,793
And1: 3,486
Joined: Dec 10, 2004

Re: Portland's Off-Season Has Officially Arrived 

Post#335 » by The Sebastian Express » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:12 am

It sounds like he's telling people the grass isn't always greener on the other side re: tanking.
Norm2953
RealGM
Posts: 10,743
And1: 442
Joined: May 17, 2003
Location: Oregon

Re: Portland's Off-Season Has Officially Arrived 

Post#336 » by Norm2953 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:20 am

Let's be clear, Portland will not be shopping Dame but would perhaps do a deal if his desire to contend for
a title in his prime years will not be met in a conference with the GSW, Rockets and the rebuilt Lakers. It's
just a realistic assessment of the league for a team like Portland will never be a destination for the prime
free agents and has to build via the draft and smart trades. I would not move Dame for anything less than
a top 6 pick and a solid starting caliber player in return.
cucad8
Head Coach
Posts: 6,427
And1: 561
Joined: May 27, 2007

Re: Portland's Off-Season Has Officially Arrived 

Post#337 » by cucad8 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:41 am

7-12-52 wrote:
Demanding the team remain competitive is part of why we remain forever mediocre though. I may be missing someone but I'm only seeing 2 top 5 picks for the Blazers since Bowie in 1984 (Oden & Aldridge.)

In a star driven league we have made 2 top 5 picks in the last 34 years. You can't blame fans for eventually wanting to try another path.


I may be missing someone, but I see 4 players in the last 20 years who have won a title with the team that drafted them in the top 5.
7-12-52
Senior
Posts: 588
And1: 375
Joined: Sep 10, 2009

Re: Portland's Off-Season Has Officially Arrived 

Post#338 » by 7-12-52 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:00 am

cucad8 wrote:
7-12-52 wrote:
Demanding the team remain competitive is part of why we remain forever mediocre though. I may be missing someone but I'm only seeing 2 top 5 picks for the Blazers since Bowie in 1984 (Oden & Aldridge.)

In a star driven league we have made 2 top 5 picks in the last 34 years. You can't blame fans for eventually wanting to try another path.


I may be missing someone, but I see 4 players in the last 20 years who have won a title with the team that drafted them in the top 5.


I see where you're going with that but it has already been established that the Blazers can't get stars outside the draft and nearly all those teams that won championships did it with a top 5 pick whether they picked them or not.

We could try to follow the Miami or Lakers model and hope a Shaq or Lebron force their way here I guess?

If we never ever get top 5 picks and we can't get top tier free agents how do you propose we ever break the cycle?

I think it should probably also be noted that while only 4 players they won 50% of the championships available during that time period for the teams that drafted them.
User avatar
plyrically
Junior
Posts: 329
And1: 25
Joined: Feb 23, 2009
Contact:

Re: Portland's Off-Season Has Officially Arrived 

Post#339 » by plyrically » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:52 am

:evil:
JasonStern wrote:
Read on Twitter


Fitz303 wrote:
JasonStern wrote:
like overvaluing our current players? wait, that was Pritchard. wait, that is Olshey...


If you look at Zach Collins and see Meyers, you're just looking at his height and skin color. Not even close


:roll:

points for at least reading part of my post.

I'll try this again:

the idea of holding onto a young big that hasn't proven much in the hopes that he becomes an all-star years from now when you can acquire an all-star now is foolish when the team's best players are entering their prime. likewise, there is no guarantee that all young players will pan out. see exhibit L:

viewtopic.php?t=1369005

(less Wizenheimer's post, naturally)

Yo! Marcus Thornton can def shoot. I remember picking him up off waivers about a couple years ago and he was a stud for me, lol. I think he was with the Rockets then.
Anyways, he’d be great off the bench.
User avatar
jeffhardyfan52
General Manager
Posts: 9,852
And1: 567
Joined: Jul 09, 2006
Location: Portland
Contact:
       

Re: Portland's Off-Season Has Officially Arrived 

Post#340 » by jeffhardyfan52 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:34 pm

I saw some rumors on Reddit that Memphis was Open to trading the 4th pick and Chandler Parsons.
Think Neil would try that garbage ?
He’s not (my-vydas), he’s not (your-vydas), he’s Arvydas

Image

Return to Portland Trail Blazers