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Game 8: Portland vs Utah 6:00pm SNW

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Re: Game 8: Portland vs Utah 6:00pm SNW 

Post#101 » by Blazinaway » Thu Nov 2, 2017 3:47 am

monopoman wrote:
Roy The Natural wrote:This team kind of stinks.....

They need to iron out the rotations bad.

Meh, Utah rarely loses at home and they had to get a tremendous display by both Rubio and Mitchell to even make this a game. A made FT here or there and then this could have easily been a 1 point win in the regular time. I wouldn't call this a "horrible loss" its not like the Jazz suck ass.


I view it as horrible because it was easily a win with just some decent ball handling, SO many stupid TO's, thats a pattern that has cost us dearly this yr
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Re: Game 8: Portland vs Utah 6:00pm SNW 

Post#102 » by PDXKnight » Thu Nov 2, 2017 3:48 am

Aaaaaand its gone... On to the next one
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Re: Game 8: Portland vs Utah 6:00pm SNW 

Post#103 » by Blazinaway » Thu Nov 2, 2017 3:49 am

The Sebastian Express wrote:I just wish.. instead of the extreme reactions.. could just find a comforting, non-draining middle.


like what? and what's "extreme"? From my view its really hard to watch this game and not be extremely frustrated and I haven't seen anything "extreme", just fans frustrated and venting a bit
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Re: Game 8: Portland vs Utah 6:00pm SNW 

Post#104 » by Matt800 » Thu Nov 2, 2017 3:51 am

Oneluckbox wrote:Honestly thats 3 games this year where the BLazers SHOULDVE won but lost cause of garbage late game execution with bad TOs and horrible shots. FIX IT


yeah although it wasn't just late game execution, they played poorly in general and that lead to being in those late game situations.

They don't look very organized or focused right now as a team.
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Re: Game 8: Portland vs Utah 6:00pm SNW 

Post#105 » by Shem » Thu Nov 2, 2017 3:59 am

The Houston Astros just won their first ever World Series championship.
April 4, 2014:
HotrodBeaubois wrote:I never said Dallas was good as Portland


Earlier on December 8, 2013:
HotrodBeaubois wrote:That's the Whole Point Portland is No better than Dallas
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Re: Game 8: Portland vs Utah 6:00pm SNW 

Post#106 » by Roy The Natural » Thu Nov 2, 2017 4:00 am

monopoman wrote:
Roy The Natural wrote:This team kind of stinks.....

They need to iron out the rotations bad.

Meh, Utah rarely loses at home and they had to get a tremendous display by both Rubio and Mitchell to even make this a game. A made FT here or there and then this could have easily been a 1 point win in the regular time. I wouldn't call this a "horrible loss" its not like the Jazz suck ass.


If it was just this game... sure. But the offense plain sucks, it's just full blown hero-ball iso play.


There are positives:
Vonleh looked good tonight. We can finally get rid of this stupid **** Harkless/Aminu lineup to start the game.. it's **** awful against any team with half competent bigs. Vonleh's defensive mobility, and his interior toughness is very noticeable almost immediately.

CJ McCollum looked eerily similar to beginning of 2016-17 Evan Turner tonight... doubt that happens often.

Connaughton had a rough game in lots of spots, but even at his worst, he seems equivalent to an average Crabbe in impact.

Lillard is back to being Lillard for the most part... he's driving, he's shooting (albeit a bit streaky, as always), and he looks like the most composed player out there even with his mistakes. He looks good right now again... not midseason form good, but pretty solid overall.

Nurkic looks mostly back at this point, he's finishing pretty well overall, and he's making an impact on each game.

The Negatives: Many......
If Aminu's injury is small.... I'm not sure Harkless has done enough to be anything but a conditional play. I don't want him out there if the matchup isn't in his favor. For all his faults, Turner has looked better at every facet of the game in almost every game to this point. Harkless is playing Crabbe like D, and committing a litany of boneheaded fouls... his offensive impact is almost completely nonexistant.

CJ McCollum has been a MASSIVE factor in 2... or was it 3, losses now. I don't expect it to continue, but despite shooting percentages, he's been an issue no doubt.

The Blazers have zero answer for the blitzing of the pick and roll to this point in the season. Lillard makes it work still at times, but CJ is completely clueless when he's doubled off the pick.... we need someone to run the offense when Lillard is out. Turner does okay, but CJ is having trouble getting open off-ball right now.

Connaughton plays D like Crabbe.... that is... he plays very bad D.


............... ehhh there's a ton more to say, but I'm over it. I do feel that this team can be pretty good. But they HAVE to stop getting rotating near career worsts from their best players each game. It's really hard to win when Lillard hits like 2 shots all game, or Nurkic can't finish easy layups, or CJ looks like last seasons early year Evan Turner. Can't overcome that stuff, I guess the silver lining is that Blazers have been in almost every game with such performances dragging them down.

The offense is broken right now though, it's hard to deny. The passing is basically buckshot right now when the guards get doubled. The passes are often WAAAYYY off target causing the offense to straight stagnate as the ball rotates slowly as players try to reel in terrible passes.
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Re: Game 8: Portland vs Utah 6:00pm SNW 

Post#107 » by Norm2953 » Thu Nov 2, 2017 4:20 am

Shem wrote:The Houston Astros just won their first ever World Series championship.


I've been watching the WS for I've seen too many bad games when Portland plays in Utah. Close
series and two evely matched teams. Back to the Blazers tomorrow night for Lonzo and the
Lakers come to town for their only appearance of the seaspn. Should be a ton of Laker fans
in the MC.
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Re: Game 8: Portland vs Utah 6:00pm SNW 

Post#108 » by monopoman » Thu Nov 2, 2017 4:31 am

Norm2953 wrote:
Shem wrote:The Houston Astros just won their first ever World Series championship.


I've been watching the WS for I've seen too many bad games when Portland plays in Utah. Close
series and two evely matched teams. Back to the Blazers tomorrow night for Lonzo and the
Lakers come to town for their only appearance of the seaspn. Should be a ton of Laker fans
in the MC.

Well it looks like not many teams are winning in Utah this season they are 5-0 at home and 0-3 on the road this season. To make matters worse their only "close loss" on the road was against the Wolves, they got blown out by the Clippers in LA and lost by a pretty decent margin to the Suns in Phoenix.
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Re: Game 8: Portland vs Utah 6:00pm SNW 

Post#109 » by jazzfan1971 » Thu Nov 2, 2017 4:36 am

Roy The Natural wrote:
The Blazers have zero answer for the blitzing of the pick and roll to this point in the season.


Probably the story of the night.
"Thibs called back and wanted more picks," said Jorge Sedano. "And Pat Riley, literally, I was told, called him a mother-bleeper and hung up the phone."
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Re: Game 8: Portland vs Utah 6:00pm SNW 

Post#110 » by Roy The Natural » Thu Nov 2, 2017 4:38 am

monopoman wrote:
Norm2953 wrote:
Shem wrote:The Houston Astros just won their first ever World Series championship.


I've been watching the WS for I've seen too many bad games when Portland plays in Utah. Close
series and two evely matched teams. Back to the Blazers tomorrow night for Lonzo and the
Lakers come to town for their only appearance of the seaspn. Should be a ton of Laker fans
in the MC.

Well it looks like not many teams are winning in Utah this season they are 5-0 at home and 0-3 on the road this season.


True... I mean things aren't all bad for Portland right now. As I said, the team's 3 best players just can't seem to put together an overall average outing together. Lillard was good tonight, not perfect, not excellent, but solid. He did his thing and looked the part for most of the game. Nurkic continued his progression of better play as the season moves on. He looked solid on offnese, and pretty pretty much cancelled out Gobert. CJ... was a trainwreck, an absolute trainwreck. The first 4 games Nurkic was a trainwreck. Game 2-4 Lillard was a trainwreck.

If we can get the best players on this team to just rotate sub-par and good games between them, the wins will start flowing in. Right now we are getting a solid game from 1 guy... and a **** from another, it's hard to win like that. The good thing is, Nurkic seems to be picking up steam in all phases of his game, and McCollum and Lillard have a proven track record, and it's extremely unlikely that performances like the ones we've seen from them early in the season here will be regular occurrences.
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Re: Game 8: Portland vs Utah 6:00pm SNW 

Post#111 » by Roy The Natural » Thu Nov 2, 2017 4:41 am

jazzfan1971 wrote:
Roy The Natural wrote:
The Blazers have zero answer for the blitzing of the pick and roll to this point in the season.


Probably the story of the night.


I'd still say CJ was the story of the night from Portland's side. That may be the worst overall game I've ever seen him play (at least since he's been a starter). Some of it may have been Utah's defense.... but a lot of it would take quite a bit of convincing to make that case. The guy was losing his handle left and right, when he's an elite ballhandler normally... he missed an absolutely stunning amount of shots that he normally makes with ease... his end of game line may not look all that terrible, but overall, I can't really remember a more negative impact game from him.
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Re: Game 8: Portland vs Utah 6:00pm SNW 

Post#112 » by Napoleon7 » Thu Nov 2, 2017 4:48 am

Their guards killed us...our guards need to get better on defense if we hope to go anywhere.


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Re: Game 8: Portland vs Utah 6:00pm SNW 

Post#113 » by Roy The Natural » Thu Nov 2, 2017 4:52 am

Napoleon7 wrote:Their guards killed us...our guards need to get better on defense if we hope to go anywhere.


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Even with all of that... if CJ has an average game... it's game Blazers, IMO.
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Re: Game 8: Portland vs Utah 6:00pm SNW 

Post#114 » by Wizenheimer » Thu Nov 2, 2017 5:16 am

a surefire way for Portland to have won this game was to draft Donovan Mitchell instead of Collins

relax Collins fans....just kidding...sort of

it's still way early, but it kind of looks like Portland is having the same type of start to the season they've had the last couple of years. For whatever reason, they may be slow starters

6 straight games at home next, but with OKC and Memphis two of the teams, and Orlando the final game, unless Portland can solve some of their issues, they could be a .500 team 6 games from now. Considering their schedule, that would be a major fail
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Re: Game 8: Portland vs Utah 6:00pm SNW 

Post#115 » by Roy The Natural » Thu Nov 2, 2017 5:38 am

Wizenheimer wrote:a surefire way for Portland to have won this game was to draft Donovan Mitchell instead of Collins

relax Collins fans....just kidding...sort of

it's still way early, but it kind of looks like Portland is having the same type of start to the season they've had the last couple of years. For whatever reason, they may be slow starters

6 straight games at home next, but with OKC and Memphis two of the teams, and Orlando the final game, unless Portland can solve some of their issues, they could be a .500 team 6 games from now. Considering their schedule, that would be a major fail


Yea Mitchell looks pretty good... but I'm pretty much completely against adding to the imbalance of this roster. Maybe Collins is just completely unready to see the floor... but everytime he's touched the floor since preseason he's looked vastly more ready to make a positive impact than Leonard ever has. I mean... I wouldn't have been totally against Mitchell, but this team is desperately in need of a starting 4, even a mediocre one. Hopefully Vonleh can fill that role this year, he looked really solid out there tonight. His defense was great for his short stint.

Whatever happens to this team, I'm just bored of them at this point. I'm bored of the Aminu/Harkless pairing and it's considerable drag on the offense, I'm bored of Turner, I'm bored of having to stagger our 2 best players, and the entire offense falling apart once Lillard leaves the game. The team just feels boring, like a poor man's version of those Hawks teams. The lack of progression from almost every role player is just wearing on me.

- Harkless is pretty much a 3-4 game a month player, and completely invisible on both sides of the ball the other 10 or so games. If the ratio could at least increase to 50/50, maybe we'd have something... but his disappearing acts are getting tiresome, and old.

- Turner is about 100x better than last season. He still has plenty of annoying moments, but at least he now has good at moments at an equivalent level in almost every game. He just isn't working though. I don't think Turner/Lillard/McCollum in a lineup is as terrible as some may believe, and I think it may be worth revisiting with Harkless sucking... and honestly Turner/McCollum. or Turner/Lillard isn't unplayable in a vacuum. But when Aminu, Harkless, Ed Davis, Nurkic, or whoever else the Blazers are throwing out there are the other players in the lineup.... Portland just doesn't have enough offensive creation on the floor. What I mean to say, is that I think a lineup like Lillard/Turner/Ariza/Solid to good shooting 4 (Milsap or such) works fine, but the team just STILL doesn't have the weapons or shooting to stagger Lillard/McCollum without the offense looking like a mess, and Turner only really mitigates that at all when he's really just "on".

- Connaughton is basically Crabbe with a bit more versatility on offense, but not enough to impact a game at a significantly higher level. Outside of the 1 Suns game, he just hasn't really fit into the offense to the level of helping the offense. He's a major part of the 2nd quarter struggles... he can spot-up shoot, and I feel comfortable with that, but he's really not getting open at all through off-ball movement.

I guess I could go on... but I'm just over the wings on this team, they're all so utterly and severely flawed that it makes them completely useless for large stretches of games, and a plethora of different lineups. I'm ready for a change, something needs to happen at the 3/4 spot..... It's long overdue.

I feel like even a Nick Young type player would be a welcome addition at this point... we need something, somewhere that can get hot and start shooting the ball well from more than a spot-up position behind the arc besides of course Lillard and McCollum. There has to be something attainable out there.
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Re: Game 8: Portland vs Utah 6:00pm SNW 

Post#116 » by zzaj » Thu Nov 2, 2017 6:02 am

Had to watch a replay of the game because of work...

There are a lot of deep structural things with the way this team is constructed that won't go away, and IMO will keep them from ever being a true title contender.

2 big issues (of the many) that I noticed in this game that are pretty glaring this season so far:

1) The 'dynamic' Stotts offense doesn't work against good teams with length. There is too much perimeter north to south passing and not enough east to west passing. The 'reads' that are required to make the offense work (to get into their different options based on what the defense is giving up) aren't happening quick enough or passes are getting picked off rather easily by the length of opposing teams. CJ and Nurkic in particular are having a really tough time making good decisions.

2) Relatedly, the Blazers are currently last (yes, you read that correctly) DEAD LAST in the NBA in fastbreak points. If you couple an NBA that is trending quicker with a Blazer offense that relies on 3pt jump shooting and two iso oriented guards that both work better in a halfcourt offense to win games?...that really doesn't bode well.

Like last season, the Blazers seem to have a very small window to win games. Basically, they have to shoot an incredibly high percentage from 3pt territory AND get a high volume of 2pt shots AND shoot a high volume of FTs AND not have anybody get into foul trouble to win games.

------------

I expect the Lakers to win easily in Portland. They are #1 in the NBA in points in the paint and #2 in the NBA in fastbreak points. Additionally, they have tons of length in their backcourt to bother the high PnR based, Stotts offense. Their guard rotation of Ball (6'6"), KCP (6'5"), Clarkson (6'5"), and Hart (6'5") is like Blazer kryptonite. Brook Lopez has been camping on the perimeter making jumpers...which will keep Nurkic out of the paint, where he needs to be in order to help bother shots.

I know this post sounds dour and down at the mouth--but I'm just being realistic about what I see. This Blazers roster is averagely talented so in order to make up for that they need to out execute other teams. I thought with some continuity from last season that the Blazers might have a leg up in that department, but so far it looks as though they have actually regressed.
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Re: Game 8: Portland vs Utah 6:00pm SNW 

Post#117 » by Roy The Natural » Thu Nov 2, 2017 6:40 am

zzaj wrote:Had to watch a replay of the game because of work...

There are a lot of deep structural things with the way this team is constructed that won't go away, and IMO will keep them from ever being a true title contender.

2 big issues (of the many) that I noticed in this game that are pretty glaring this season so far:

1) The 'dynamic' Stotts offense doesn't work against good teams with length. There is too much perimeter north to south passing and not enough east to west passing. The 'reads' that are required to make the offense work (to get into their different options based on what the defense is giving up) aren't happening quick enough or passes are getting picked off rather easily by the length of opposing teams. CJ and Nurkic in particular are having a really tough time making good decisions.

2) Relatedly, the Blazers are currently last (yes, you read that correctly) DEAD LAST in the NBA in fastbreak points. If you couple an NBA that is trending quicker with a Blazer offense that relies on 3pt jump shooting and two iso oriented guards that both work better in a halfcourt offense to win games?...that really doesn't bode well.

Like last season, the Blazers seem to have a very small window to win games. Basically, they have to shoot an incredibly high percentage from 3pt territory AND get a high volume of 2pt shots AND shoot a high volume of FTs AND not have anybody get into foul trouble to win games.

------------

I expect the Lakers to win easily in Portland. They are #1 in the NBA in points in the paint and #2 in the NBA in fastbreak points. Additionally, they have tons of length in their backcourt to bother the high PnR based, Stotts offense. Their guard rotation of Ball (6'6"), KCP (6'5"), Clarkson (6'5"), and Hart (6'5") is like Blazer kryptonite. Brook Lopez has been camping on the perimeter making jumpers. Which will keep Nurkic out of the paint, where he needs to be in order to help bother shots.

I know this post sounds dour and down at the mouth--but I'm just being realistic about what I see. This Blazers roster is averagely talented so in order to make up for that they need to out execute other teams. I thought with some continuity from last season that the Blazers might have a leg up in that department, but so far it looks as though they have actually regressed.


About point #1... It's not "just" length, the NBA didn't all of the sudden get vastly longer than it did last year. The guards aren't making good, accurate passes this year. Lillard is going better each game, but CJs still passing all over the place.

It's not even that passes are actually getting "picked off" per se... that happens 2-6 times a game, but that's true of every team. I'm finding that more often than not, the Blazers' guards are passing the ball a solid 5-7 feet off the mark, and the recipient of the pass has to go out of their way to receive the ball. This often ends with an easy steal, or a long period of time for the recipient to gather the ball and then reorient themselves and make a decision. This in my view is allowing defenses to react much easier, and it's stagnating the hell out of ball movement. The Blazers 2 lead guards, and best players are not making decisions quick enough, and are not making great reads. It's not like the defensive strategy on how to beat Portland has changed, maybe the guards are just rusty, I don't know... but they're not passing well at all, and our pick and rolls are all sorts of discombobulated still. WAY too many times a game I see Nurkic rolling right down the center of the lane, while Lillard or McCollum are attempting to do the same, the paint gets packed with 3-4 defenders and the Blazers pass the ball to the wings ending in an iffy shot, even if Aminu has been shooting well.

I still think that much of Portland's problems revolve around it's wings, and the 4 position. There's not a single guy who you trust on offense at the 3-4 spot, and Portland is often playing 3 wings at once who are severely flawed on the offensive end. Honestly though.

I trust Pat as a spot up shooter, but the guy stinks at getting open off the ball, all you need to do to neutralize him is put a mediocre defender on him and tell him to stick too him, and his defense is Crabbe levels of bad.

Harkless does pretty much nothing on offense right now, and is bricking dunks at what has to be a record pace, his defense shows up like 3-4 times a month.

Aminu is shooting the ball well, and has his patented 1 good drive and finish every other game or so, but he's just a bag of randomness any offensive possession, should probably be the starting 3, but has been stuck at the 4 do to reluctance to play rookies, and the mismatch disadvantage this creates for the Blazers is often horrendous.

Turner is a mixed bag, you just don't want him shooting 3s at all unless your up by like 7+ and he's open, his offense doesn't really help Lillard or McCollum, but I think does lend well to Davis and Nurkic. Turner's offense has shown capable of floating the Blazers for short periods, but has also proven capable of creating a major drag. Interestingly enough, I feel like tonight Turner should have been more aggressive offensively but wasn't... CJ was just a disaster, and Turner taking another 6 midrange shots and hitting 2-3 of them would've been vastly better than whatever CJ was doing (turning the ball over and bricking) in the 2nd and 4th quarter. Turner play solid, non-magnificent defense. Vastly better than Harkless to this point in the season.

Neither Nurkic or Ed Davis resemble a 4 in any way, but both do/or I think will do a solid to good job at the 5 throughout the majority of the game, in the majority of matchups.

Vonleh... we'll see. I do wonder if in some VERY strange way, when he plays the 4 next to Nurkic they synergize to a point where they are better than they should be based on individual ability. In the short time Vonleh played tonight, his defense looked really good, and he did some good dirty work and went up strong when he got the ball. He should be starting in the next few games IMO. The team definitely needs to change up the rotation, I didn't really want the Harkless/Aminu lineup to start the season, and in multiple games this year the disadvantages it has created have been noticeable.

I think:
Lillard
McCollum
Aminu
Vonleh
Nurkic

I'd experiment with a primary second unit of:
Napier
Lillard/McCollum (due to staggering)
Turner
Swanigan/Collins/Harkless depending on matchup
Ed Davis

With spot minutes for Connaughton in place of Turner and Lillard/McCollum (when they both sit for short spurts). I don't know though, might need to see if we can grab a Jordan Clarkson type player for Harkless or something.... we just have too many similar issues from all our wings. sigh..... was really hoping we'd see some progress with the wings. Aminu seems to be back, it would've been really nice if we got some progression from Harkless on top of that, but the guy has just looked invisible.
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Re: Game 8: Portland vs Utah 6:00pm SNW 

Post#118 » by monopoman » Thu Nov 2, 2017 6:58 am

I think Vonleh will find his way into the starting lineup pretty soon, I mean he was the starting with Nurkic if I recall correctly during that great 20 game stretch where the Blazers were doing quite well.
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Re: Game 8: Portland vs Utah 6:00pm SNW 

Post#119 » by Wickzki » Thu Nov 2, 2017 7:22 am

Quote me on this and throw it in my face when he proves me wrong. But...

That Collins pick was WORSE than the Meyers Leonard pick and almost as bad as the Meyers Leonard contract.

Kid has no NBA skills at all. Yes, he's somewhat of an athlete. There's a ton of athletes in the NBA. It doesn't mean he can play basketball. He's NOT ready for anything but the junkiest of playing time and he never will be.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

This team has 3 quality NBA players and four others who are serviceable. We're going to be in luxury tax hell for the foreseeable future unless we make trades that remove the limited amount of genuine talent that we have. We'll be too good to hit the draft hard and nowhere near talented enough to do anything but hope for a 6-8 seed. We're in the NBA's version of purgatory.
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Re: Game 8: Portland vs Utah 6:00pm SNW 

Post#120 » by Fitz303 » Thu Nov 2, 2017 1:57 pm

Wickzki wrote:Quote me on this and throw it in my face when he proves me wrong. But...

That Collins pick was WORSE than the Meyers Leonard pick and almost as bad as the Meyers Leonard contract.

Kid has no NBA skills at all. Yes, he's somewhat of an athlete. There's a ton of athletes in the NBA. It doesn't mean he can play basketball. He's NOT ready for anything but the junkiest of playing time and he never will be.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

This team has 3 quality NBA players and four others who are serviceable. We're going to be in luxury tax hell for the foreseeable future unless we make trades that remove the limited amount of genuine talent that we have. We'll be too good to hit the draft hard and nowhere near talented enough to do anything but hope for a 6-8 seed. We're in the NBA's version of purgatory.


8 games into a 19 year old's career. Noted....

Good thing the Jazz dumped Gobert after his first 8 games. That 1.75 ppg on .286 FG% in 13mpg was the clear indicator of what he was going to do in the future.

I love how people get on a kid who's not even playing yet. A kid who's behind a solid rotation of big men. We'll talk in a couple of years.


But the real reason I came in here... At least all of the concern about not having any 3 point shooting with trading Crabbe can be put to rest a bit. Portland is 3rd in the league in 3pt %.

Oh, and Turner has got to go. It's not that he's playing terrible, he is negating our best weapon when he's out there. I cannot stand to see him handling the ball, and making Dame a SG. It really hurts the team, and I hope Olshey is willing to swallow his pride, and do whatever is necessary to find a better fit, and move Turner elsewhere.

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