Time to package Sharpe?

[Wizenheimer]

Eh, I don't agree with all that, but we've quickly jumped to lampooning each other's arguments, so I won't rebut everything and instead just say this: continuity is a plus if you have players worth keeping. And that's really the crux of the issue for me. I see the team playing well lately but am not convinced we have a winning roster, even given years to grow individually and together under steady leadership. Draft luck could change everything, however. Check on my level of optimism after the lottery.

yeah...that's kind of where I'm at. Portland is 15-6 over the last 21 games and have looked solid in that span. But 12 of those wins came against teams with losing records; and the last 5 wins have come against bottom-6 teams. The 3 wins against teams with winning records came at home, and in the span, Portland's record against teams with winning records was 3-6

in other words, even though the Blazers have looked solid, they've done so in the softest part of their season schedule, and the 15-6 stretch has a lot of asterisks. They need to start beating some of these good teams. And they have that chance over the next 13 games as 11 of those games are against teams with winning records. Going 4-9 over that stretch will likely end their 10th seed hopes

their chances of the 10th seed were extremely small entering last night's action, but the news Kyrie Irving tore his ACL has jumped the Blazer chances of catching Dallas way way up. Mavs own the tiebreaker so the Blazers are still 5 games behind with 20 to go. Phoenix stands between Dallas and Portland but they look like the Titanic

[zzaj]

Eh, I don't agree with all that, but we've quickly jumped to lampooning each other's arguments, so I won't rebut everything and instead just say this: continuity is a plus if you have players worth keeping. And that's really the crux of the issue for me. I see the team playing well lately but am not convinced we have a winning roster, even given years to grow individually and together under steady leadership. Draft luck could change everything, however. Check on my level of optimism after the lottery.

yeah...that's kind of where I'm at. Portland is 15-6 over the last 21 games and have looked solid in that span. But 12 of those wins came against teams with losing records; and the last 5 wins have come against bottom-6 teams. The 3 wins against teams with winning records came at home, and in the span, Portland's record against teams with winning records was 3-6

in other words, even though the Blazers have looked solid, they've done so in the softest part of their season schedule, and the 15-6 stretch has a lot of asterisks. They need to start beating some of these good teams. And they have that chance over the next 13 games as 11 of those games are against teams with winning records. Going 4-9 over that stretch will likely end their 10th seed hopes

their chances of the 10th seed were extremely small entering last night's action, but the news Kyrie Irving tore his ACL has jumped the Blazer chances of catching Dallas way way up. Mavs own the tiebreaker so the Blazers are still 5 games behind with 20 to go. Phoenix stands between Dallas and Portland but they look like the Titanic

At this stage I've pivoted from getting frustrated with wins to hoping the team wins, as long as it features good games from at least one of Clingan, Scoot, Sharpe, Deni or Camara.

Even though it's very likely not to happen given the remaining schedule, my best hope is that the Blazers overachieve and make the 10th seed, if for no other reason than I do believe that playing (and winning) against good competition has value for young players.

In a perfect zzaj world, the team beats some good teams, drafts Rasheer Fleming with like the 12th pick or whatever, and most importantly, the great play of Scoot, Sharpe, Camara, Deni and Clingan MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE to justify huge minutes for Ant, Grant, and Ayton...I simply can't watch them in big minute roles next season.

...it's an unrealistic pipedream, I know.

[JasonStern]

Eh, I don't agree with all that, but we've quickly jumped to lampooning each other's arguments, so I won't rebut everything and instead just say this: continuity is a plus if you have players worth keeping. And that's really the crux of the issue for me. I see the team playing well lately but am not convinced we have a winning roster, even given years to grow individually and together under steady leadership. Draft luck could change everything, however. Check on my level of optimism after the lottery.

And I disagree. I think Deni/Sharpe/Scoot/Camara are keepers. The problem that everyone understands but doesn't outright state is that we don't have some #1 alpha dog like we did with Dame or Roy. That doesn't mean that you trade the entire team away for picks, give up on development prospects immediately if they aren't LeBron on day one, etc.

The Blazers are kind of handcuffed pick wise thanks to Olshey's incompetence. Likewise, the roster is consisted of players that you shouldn't trade (Deni/Sharpe/Scoot/Camara), players that don't have the value Blazers fans think they have (Grant/Simons/Ayton), or easily replaceable roster filler. I don't have the answer for how to fix this. But blowing up the roster every season hoping to find a franchise player is just going to put the franchise player in a losing situation, in which he then asks to be traded as his rookie contract runs out.

[Walton1one]

Peaking too early, this scenario would have been a lot better if it played out a year from now, after they had added another high\mid lottery pick, instead of a low to potentially NO pick at all. Just dumb, but on brand for this franchise and its' current inept management. This blame for this situation lies entirely at Joe Cronin's feet.

Mind you, the overall depth of this team is better, but there is no Damian Lillard on the roster, no matter how many fans want to anoint Simons or Sharpe or Deni or Camara to those heights.

and even WITH Dame, In that 11-year span, POR never won 55 games in a season, made a WC final one time (an embarrassing sweep at the hands of GS), suffered 5 1st round exits and missed the playoffs 3 times

[JasonStern]

Eh, I don't agree with all that, but we've quickly jumped to lampooning each other's arguments, so I won't rebut everything and instead just say this: continuity is a plus if you have players worth keeping. And that's really the crux of the issue for me. I see the team playing well lately but am not convinced we have a winning roster, even given years to grow individually and together under steady leadership. Draft luck could change everything, however. Check on my level of optimism after the lottery.

yeah...that's kind of where I'm at. Portland is 15-6 over the last 21 games and have looked solid in that span. But 12 of those wins came against teams with losing records; and the last 5 wins have come against bottom-6 teams. The 3 wins against teams with winning records came at home, and in the span, Portland's record against teams with winning records was 3-6

most importantly, the great play of Scoot, Sharpe, Camara, Deni and Clingan MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE to justify huge minutes for Ant, Grant, and Ayton...I simply can't watch them in big minute roles next season.

That's what you want to see! The young core proving they are better than inferior opponents. Do they have a long way to go before becoming relevant? Yes, but at least they are playing well above Vegas expectations.

As for Ant and Ayton, I hope they do get tons of minutes leading up to the trade deadline next season. Contract year for both players - probable motivation to actually put up numbers. The idea that everyone here is going "OMG don't play Ant/Ayton! Trade them! They suck!" and then expecting any value in return is irrational. Worst case, you just let them expire and free up over $50M in cap space.

Grant, though - I would gladly take any expirings for. With those 3 either off the books or Simons/Ayton retained on team friendly contracts, you solved the entire cap space problem. Not that I would, but if you gave Sharpe Grant's contract this off-season, at least there is a chance he could evolve into something. Hate on Simons and Ayton all you want, but if they were making the $12.8M MLE instead of their current contracts, your opinions would radically change despite no change in their game.

[Wizenheimer]

As for Ant and Ayton, I hope they do get tons of minutes leading up to the trade deadline next season. Contract year for both players - probable motivation to actually put up numbers..

it may only be a small number of Blazers fans who actually believe, all evidence to the contrary, that playing 8 year veterans heavy minutes will actually increase their value

every front office in the league knows full well about the strengths and weaknesses Simons-Ayton-Grant. There is not a shred of mystery about their games, not about their skills, and more importantly, their flaws.

in order to pay a solid price, another team would not only want to add them as a starter, but also be willing to go thru the issues of awarding them a new contract in 5 months

Simons....Ayton....Grant. I'm pretty sure none has 1st round value before the trade deadline; none will have 1st round value this summer, and none will have 1st round value before next season's trade deadline. Those ships have sailed. Those guys are now in the stage of their careers where their value will only go one direction and that is down

Personally, I think the Blazers should be looking at all three as the kind of trade material that is addition by subtraction. Settle for expiring contracts and 2nd round picks

but I'm guessing Cronin wants to reboot the entire roster next season and try to emulate the Houston model. It would be idiotic in my view, but that's what appears to be on the horizon

[JasonStern]

As for Ant and Ayton, I hope they do get tons of minutes leading up to the trade deadline next season. Contract year for both players - probable motivation to actually put up numbers..

it may only be a small number of Blazers fans who actually believe, all evidence to the contrary, that playing 8 year veterans heavy minutes will actually increase their value

every front office in the league knows full well about the strengths and weaknesses Simons-Ayton-Grant. There is not a shred of mystery about their games, not about their skills, and more importantly, their flaws.

in order to pay a solid price, another team would not only want to add them as a starter, but also be willing to go thru the issues of awarding them a new contract in 5 months

Simons....Ayton....Grant. I'm pretty sure none has 1st round value before the trade deadline; none will have 1st round value this summer, and none will have 1st round value before next season's trade deadline. Those ships have sailed. Those guys are now in the stage of their careers where their value will only go one direction and that is down

Personally, I think the Blazers should be looking at all three as the kind of trade material that is addition by subtraction. Settle for expiring contracts and 2nd round picks

but I'm guessing Cronin wants to reboot the entire roster next season and try to emulate the Houston model. It would be idiotic in my view, but that's what appears to be on the horizon

I completely agree with most of this. I have been the one saying there is a very solid reason why simply letting Simons and Ayton expire versus "OMG TRADE EVERYONE!" is a sane, logical move. Their value is not as high as most posters here believe. But, there is a chance that some GM will go full Olshey and be like, "Simons is Afflalo 2.0! Take my 1st for a rental!" Unlikely, but possible. Same with Ayton. He could put up some contract year stats and land us the next Steve Blake in trade. Worst case, they expire and are off the books.

Grant, though. Expletive. He's older and more limited than Simons/Ayton, and owed significantly more money for longer. He seems like a cool person, and he's not a bad player. He's just the main piece that destroys cap flexibility after next season.

[Tim Lehrbach]

Note that I both say "trade everyone!!!!" and that the terrible trio are worth nothing in trade. I have said this consistently for months. I fully agree that the most likely positive case with those three is letting their contracts expire. Unfortunately, the most likely actual case is they are signed to handsome extensions.

[Tim Lehrbach]

As far as keepers, I'm a believer in Camara and Deni but that's about it. And I think Deni is a flight risk by the time this team is competing for anything meaningful. Clingan might be good, but I think there's a fairly low ceiling there. Scoot and Sharpe... just not buying. Hope I'm wrong. Not a fan of Shaedon, but I still really like Scoot. I just worry he's a role player who will end up getting paid like a key starter based on raw production and not actual impact.

[Walton1one]

In terms of keepers, no players is a true keeper on this team if the right "star" player was offered, b\c that is the one critical piece that a team must absolutely have to be a contender.

I would prefer that POR holds onto Deni & Camara (or at least one of them), Clingan & Scoot. After that, no player, including Sharpe feels like an essential piece to me.

[Wizenheimer]

I think there is a big difference between...untouchable...nearly untouchable...keepers...keepers but available for right price.

I don't think the Blazers have any player that fits into the first 3 categories; maybe Camara; possibly Avdija but that's a stretch. They have several that fit into the keeper-right price category

I'd also say all 5 of their veterans fit into the addition-by-subtraction category. If the Blazers could get an expiring contracts + second round picks for them, they'd be doing really well. But all indications, as many have worried, is that Cronin is hoping to re-sign at least Simons and Ayton

I just don't see how he can do it though. In a 1 year period beginning in July 2026, Ayton, Simons, Timelord, Thybulle, Sharpe, Scoot, Camara, and Murray are all due new contracts. A year after that Avdija & Cingan will get new deals. Thybulle and Murray are easy solves, but 8 rotation players, including 4 going from rookie scale to rookie extension, all getting new contracts in a 2 year period will call for Cronin to finally make some tough decisions. That's way to big a ball to punt into the future

[dckingsfan]

As far as keepers, I'm a believer in Camara and Deni but that's about it. And I think Deni is a flight risk by the time this team is competing for anything meaningful. Clingan might be good, but I think there's a fairly low ceiling there. Scoot and Sharpe... just not buying. Hope I'm wrong. Not a fan of Shaedon, but I still really like Scoot. I just worry he's a role player who will end up getting paid like a key starter based on raw production and not actual impact.

I am with you and would add Clingan.

But as others have said, there is no #1 option on offense to go around a solid defense.

Also with you on not resigning Sharpe, Simons and Ayton. The "best" I think we can hope for is to offer them reasonable declining contracts and let them walk.

Gonna be an interesting next two years.

[JasonStern]

In terms of keepers, no players is a true keeper on this team if the right "star" player was offered

Bold take. You really think Denver would offer Jokić for Ayton and Simons?

[JasonStern]

Also with you on not resigning Sharpe, Simons and Ayton. The "best" I think we can hope for is to offer them reasonable declining contracts and let them walk.

And yet nobody has made a coherent argument on why you should let a 21 year old that is a top three scorer walk, especially after tanking a season for the draft pick that landed him. Getting out of Grant's contract and letting Simons and Ayton expire makes sense. That totally fixes all salary cap issues the Blazers are facing, and any value coming back likely is a risky pick/prospect with a dead weight contract coming back. Letting Sharpe walk - which again, he's under contract for another year and then has the qualifying offer worst case - just shows that people are complaining for the sake of complaining while not actually watching any games. But yeah. Trade ALL of the young players for picks that statistically are unlikely to be as good as the metrics they are currently putting up. That will turn this team into a winner! Maybe I'm just not drinking enough haterade...

[JasonStern]

In a 1 year period beginning in July 2026, Ayton, Simons, Timelord, Thybulle, Sharpe, Scoot, Camara, and Murray are all due new contracts. A year after that Avdija & Cingan will get new deals.

Inaccurate. Scoot and Sharpe were in different draft classes. Eligible for an extension and needing an extension are two completely different things. Sharpe is locked in for at least 2 years. And Scoot 3.

But is this even so bad? 90% of the board craps on all of these players. If they all walk, the Blazers have the cap space to sign some magical savior/saviors. But then, the conversation will just be a bunch of mediocre role players and some undeveloped, unproven players didn't land Portland a super-star and a mystical war chest of draft picks. Missing from most of these conversations is the fact that it takes two teams to compete a trade. Maybe Portland's Ayton, Simons, Timelord, Thybulle platter isn't as appetizing to other teams as many are making it sound.

[Tim Lehrbach]

In a 1 year period beginning in July 2026, Ayton, Simons, Timelord, Thybulle, Sharpe, Scoot, Camara, and Murray are all due new contracts. A year after that Avdija & Cingan will get new deals.

Inaccurate. Scoot and Sharpe were in different draft classes. Eligible for an extension and needing an extension are two completely different things. Sharpe is locked in for at least 2 years. And Scoot 3.

But is this even so bad? 90% of the board craps on all of these players. If they all walk, the Blazers have the cap space to sign some magical savior/saviors. But then, the conversation will just be a bunch of mediocre role players and some undeveloped, unproven players didn't land Portland a super-star and a mystical war chest of draft picks. Missing from most of these conversations is the fact that it takes two teams to compete a trade. Maybe Portland's Ayton, Simons, Timelord, Thybulle platter isn't as appetizing to other teams as many are making it sound.

OK, but whom are you even addressing at this point? We literally had a 65-page thread wherein just about everybody came to accept that Ayton, Grant, Simons, Williams, and Thybulle weren't getting shipped, let alone for fantastic prizes. Whose position are you mocking?

And, it's not some grave offense against Blazermania to also believe that the aforementioned "platter" is one of players who bring little value on the court. Williams and Thybulle don't even play. Grant has been abysmal. Ayton, by your own accounting, brings it about 25% of the time. Simons is... fine, I guess, pretty much an average player.

As to Scoot and Sharpe, who you mention here, sure, there's scattered talk of moving on from them. I'll just speak for myself and say that I dread a long-term outlook in which these two are our highly-paid and therefore featured stars. But what choices do the Blazers have? Lock 'em up to massive contracts or... don't. It's not always the right move to retain anybody and everybody in the name of continuity or asset management. I am grateful there is still time to decide, but I do believe it is an open question whether these two have a bright future in the NBA.

[Walton1one]

In terms of keepers, no players is a true keeper on this team if the right "star" player was offered

Bold take. You really think Denver would offer Jokić for Ayton and Simons?

They absolutely would not. What I was saying is that if they did offer Jokic (will never happen), but wanted Camara or Deni or both as part of a deal back, neither of those players should be off limits.

I suspect most teams ask Joe to move on or hang up the phone when\if? he peddles Ayton\Simons for a star level player.

[Wizenheimer]

In a 1 year period beginning in July 2026, Ayton, Simons, Timelord, Thybulle, Sharpe, Scoot, Camara, and Murray are all due new contracts. A year after that Avdija & Cingan will get new deals.

Inaccurate. Scoot and Sharpe were in different draft classes. Eligible for an extension and needing an extension are two completely different things. Sharpe is locked in for at least 2 years. And Scoot 3.
.

you are wrong....it is not inaccurate in any way. I'm not talking about extensions, although that doesn't change things at all

I said 'in a 1 year period', those 8 players will ALL be getting new contracts.... because their existing deals will end

Ayton-Simons-Timelord-Thybulle-Sharpe will be getting new deals in July 2026

one year later, in July 2027, Scoot-Camara-Murray will be getting new deals. 2027-2026 = 1; easy math

and 1 year after that, July 2028, Avdija & Clingan will be getting new deals. (so will Grant, but I'm hoping that won't matter)
**********************************************************************************************************************

it is a completely unsustainable model. For example, Simons signed his current deal in 2022. He signed for 25M/year when the salary cap was 123.6M. That represents 20% of the salary cap

assume his new contract just keeps pace with his current deal and also keeps pace with the salary cap. The cap should be around 170M in the 2026-27 season. Simons, at an average salary of 20% of the cap would be getting 34M/year on a 4 year deal. A salary of that magnitude only works because Scoot-Sharpe-Clingan-Camara are all on rookie deals paying about 27M year combined. If they get bumped up to 100M/year combined, then vet contracts of Simons-Ayton-Grant at 90-110M year busts the Blazer payroll all to hell

for some of us, the idiocy of NOT dumping most of those vets wasn't just about minutes, or the lottery, or a player like Simons standing in front of both Scoot and Sharpe. It was also about this coming payroll crunch. Cronin may be a master at punting tough decisions down the road, but his punts are going to start bouncing off the wall of payroll reality + Vulcan penny-pinching

and it is absolutely certain that other GM's know exactly what kind of a salary crunch Cronin is facing. All the knucklehead chatter about 'building up the trade value' of Simons-Ayton-Grant is going to vanish into the leverage Cronin has lost by his stubborn insistence of holding onto those vets while demanding trade packages no team would be dumb enough to pay

[BlazersBroncos]

As to Scoot and Sharpe, who you mention here, sure, there's scattered talk of moving on from them. I'll just speak for myself and say that I dread a long-term outlook in which these two are our highly-paid and therefore featured stars. But what choices do the Blazers have? Lock 'em up to massive contracts or... don't. It's not always the right move to retain anybody and everybody in the name of continuity or asset management. I am grateful there is still time to decide, but I do believe it is an open question whether these two have a bright future in the NBA.

Ya - reminds me of RJ Barrett in NYK. But we might have the chance to have TWO RJ Barretts.

[Walton1one]

As to Scoot and Sharpe, who you mention here, sure, there's scattered talk of moving on from them. I'll just speak for myself and say that I dread a long-term outlook in which these two are our highly-paid and therefore featured stars. But what choices do the Blazers have? Lock 'em up to massive contracts or... don't. It's not always the right move to retain anybody and everybody in the name of continuity or asset management. I am grateful there is still time to decide, but I do believe it is an open question whether these two have a bright future in the NBA.

Ya - reminds me of RJ Barrett in NYK. But we might have the chance to have TWO RJ Barretts.

Or even (3) if Cronin trades for the original version...