Trade Thread

[Norm2953]

I don't understand Houston's desire for Covington for they gave up their only big in Capela and now
have to play 6-5 PJ Tucker at center. They are going to be eaten alive by any team with decent center.

I strongly suspect Portland will do nothing of substance at the trade deadline. I'm skeptical there is much
of a market for Whiteside for the Batum in 2020 is nothing like the guy who played in Portland. I'd love
to see CJ traded but that's not going to happen unless Jodie orders him gone.

[d-train]

Capela, Beasley, and Covington are the best players in this trade. I don't see how Rockets can trade their best big man and not replace him with another big man or at least superior talent. T-Pubs did real well IMO. T-Pups get value, plus a 1st round pick. Nuggets give up a talented wing they can't afford to keep because they are loaded with wings. The Hawks are the biggest winners. They give nothing but a 1st round pick.

[BlazersBroncos]

Hate that deal for Minnesota. Beasley is due for a hefty payday and that pick is meh. We could have beat that, but the deal would have to include Hassan and its becoming clear we have no intentions to trade him. Which I disagree with but whatever.

Denver getting a FRP for Malik, turning a small ball PF in Juan into a better small ball PF in Keita and snagging two guys that are probably ending up the best 3rd string PG and C in the game is pretty impressive. I really like this move for them. And, Malik gone means MPJ gets more burn, which has paid off with great result so far.

[d-train]

For those wondering if Blazers might make a move to get under the tax, we are about $6.05M above the tax threshold. This number might be $1.25M less than some know because many websites list Nurkic's salary including 'likely' incentives. Well, the incentive is payable if Blazers win 50 games. IOW, the incentive won't be owed.

[d-train]

Another interesting tidbit, Nene had some funky incentive laden funny money contract that will give Hawks a $7.5M TPE.

[DaVoiceMaster]

I'm going to be PISSED if the Blazers don't do something of significance at the deadline. I shouldn't have to explain how awful keeping Whiteside through the deadline is for this team going forward. But quite simply, not making a move with Whiteside's contract at the deadline is unacceptable.

The market for Whiteside however just doesn't seem to be there unless the team sacrifices themselves financially
by taking on Love or another big contract. Merely getting out of taxes would likely enrage Dame but I wonder if
Portland can get involved in the rumored 3-4 way deal that would send Dlo to Minnesota.

I'd honestly do Whiteside for Batum and 2 seconds. That's better than nothing. And it gives us Batum's expiring next year when all the NBA is scrambling to prepare for the 2021 free agent class. ANYTHING is better than burying our heads in the sand and getting nothing out of these expirings.

Doing nothing IS better than trading Whiteside for Batum and a couple of 2nd's.

[Roy The Natural]

The market for Whiteside however just doesn't seem to be there unless the team sacrifices themselves financially
by taking on Love or another big contract. Merely getting out of taxes would likely enrage Dame but I wonder if
Portland can get involved in the rumored 3-4 way deal that would send Dlo to Minnesota.

I'd honestly do Whiteside for Batum and 2 seconds. That's better than nothing. And it gives us Batum's expiring next year when all the NBA is scrambling to prepare for the 2021 free agent class. ANYTHING is better than burying our heads in the sand and getting nothing out of these expirings.

Doing nothing IS better than trading Whiteside for Batum and a couple of 2nd's.

I disagree.

[DaVoiceMaster]

That's okay. I tend to disagree with most of what you say, as well.

[Roy The Natural]

That's okay. I tend to disagree with most of what you say, as well.

Olshey should be fired if he gets nothing out of either expiring contract.... Meh, Olshey needs to be fired regardless. But, Portland went into this season with 2 large expirings. If they come out with giving up assets for financial obligations next year for Ariza.... It's just utterly unacceptable.

I think Portland needs to waive Ariza in the off-season.

I'd rather trade for Batum and high 2nd round picks, waive Ariza, and still have access to the full MLE.

Than

Keep Ariza, and let Whiteside expire, and have access to the full MLE.

Or worst of all

Waive Ariza, and let Whiteside expire, giving Portland access to a full MLE worth of cap space.

Letting Whiteside expire for nothing is a clear mark of ineptitude from the front office. A front office that quite frankly looks like it's created a rudderless team.

[Waynearchetype]

That's okay. I tend to disagree with most of what you say, as well.

Olshey should be fired if he gets nothing out of either expiring contract.... Meh, Olshey needs to be fired regardless. But, Portland went into this season with 2 large expirings. If they come out with giving up assets for financial obligations next year for Ariza.... It's just utterly unacceptable.

I think Portland needs to waive Ariza in the off-season.

I'd rather trade for Batum and high 2nd round picks, waive Ariza, and still have access to the full MLE.

Than

Keep Ariza, and let Whiteside expire, and have access to the full MLE.

Or worst of all

Waive Ariza, and let Whiteside expire, giving Portland access to a full MLE worth of cap space.

Letting Whiteside expire for nothing is a clear mark of ineptitude from the front office. A front office that quite frankly looks like it's created a rudderless team.

1. Expiring contracts aren't what they used to be. This summer is the 4 year anniversary of the Big Cap Increase so there are tons of them to go around. This isn't really a thing that is worthwhile right now. Its been a good 5 years or so since a team gave up tangible assets for an expiring.
2. Batum is awful and 2nd round picks are like a 10% shot at getting a bench player. This move keeps us in the tax.
3. Waving Ariza doesn't remove him from the cap equation.
4. Repeater tax will start to set in if they don't let some things expire which _will_ hurt us a lot down the road.
5. Whiteside is a useful player and if he signs for 10-15m~ over the summer that is a good move and lets us duck the tax.

[Norm2953]

I do think athletically Whiteside is worth bringing back as long as his contract doesn't place the
team into luxury taxes. He's likely as good a player we'll find with the MLE, and if D-Train is
right about him signing for $10-12 Million, he's insurance in case Nurk becomes a hard sign in
two seasons. If he wants more, let him walk.

I suspect Portland will keep Ariza's expiring contract in 2021 around unless he really falls off in
the remaining games in the season. The goal is to get under the tax line but still field a good
team but this team is going to be in two parts for there is a growing number of project players
like Hoard, Brown, Gabriel who likely will be on the roster next season along with other young
players like Collins, Simons and Trent. Jr who will be expected to be rotation players along with
the team's first pick and Little who likely be end of the rotation players. If Portland brings back
Whiteside or a MLE guy and Ariza that's 10 players to go with Dame/CJ, Nurk. Other players are
Hood (injured) and perhaps Skal, Melo (free agent) or some new two way players.

The question remains whether this team is really good enough to compete with the two LA teams
and likely a rested GSW team.

[Blazer50]

Expecting disappointment after 3 years of promises. This was going to be the year to cash the albatross signings that was 2016 - and get that player who 'Moves the Needle". But with Dame going off (Hey - we knew he was good) - Whiteside has become too valuable and we need the continuity to capture that 8th seed. Then Maybe in the offseason there's a sign and trade - or Whiteside agrees to a reasonable deal (because he has enough money and wants to play nice). He is the best asset in the Free Agency market?

The other scenario would be that Hassan walks for a better deal and team B does not want a sign and trade to pay more and scrafice an asset. Or he signs with the Blazers and either he or Nurkic become disgruntled with sharing time or riding the pines. Both have shown the can be disruptive to solid organizations when unhappy.

But the continuity? Working Skal - Nurkic and Collins back into the rotation and the residual limiting of Hassan, Carmelo, Gary Trent and Biggies minutes is already going to screw that up. Is the 8th seed really the goal - or wouldn't a lottery pick and a potential needle moving asset going forward be better.

Kevin Love - Otto Porter Jr - Andrew Wiggins (none of my favorites) all have the long term potential to be valuable piece that could improve the Blazers future. Relying on internal growth and the 20th pick in the draft is not what was promised. (With some move we might even get out of the Tax)

[BlazersBroncos]

We cant expect this franchise to pay the tax that would be associated with Love or Wiggins.

We also have to assume that Hassan has near zero league wide value. Andre Drummond has no market, not even a late FRP. Hassan is a worse player with a similar skillset. So any value he has league wide will be due to him expiring and whatever we attach to him.

I wanted RoCo, and I wouldn't hate a deal for Porter. But at this point it may be best to simply keep and resign Whiteside. Its very possible that he market is even below the MLE. Traditional centers are simply not in demand.

Its worth asking ourselves if 48 minutes of elite center production and defense is more or less valuable than moving that contract for a gamble like Porter, who isn't even on a timetable to return from what could be a career long nagging injury. Or more or less valuable than paying Love or Wiggins 25M+ per season to create a near impressive trio of defensively inept 20ppg scorers.

The market is absolutely flooded with 2016 expiring's, driving Hassan's value down as an expiring. The market is absolutely not in demand of traditional centers, driving Hassan's value down as a player.

If we can resign Melo to the BAE and keep Hassan at 20M over two years, we can still use some MLE money to sign a backup PG. I think using Simons to move higher in the draft wouldn't be a bad idea either. We need to decide on Little as a future PF or SF before this draft though.

[Roy The Natural]

We cant expect this franchise to pay the tax that would be associated with Love or Wiggins.

We also have to assume that Hassan has near zero league wide value. Andre Drummond has no market, not even a late FRP. Hassan is a worse player with a similar skillset. So any value he has league wide will be due to him expiring and whatever we attach to him.

I wanted RoCo, and I wouldn't hate a deal for Porter. But at this point it may be best to simply keep and resign Whiteside. Its very possible that he market is even below the MLE. Traditional centers are simply not in demand.

Its worth asking ourselves if 48 minutes of elite center production and defense is more or less valuable than moving that contract for a gamble like Porter, who isn't even on a timetable to return from what could be a career long nagging injury. Or more or less valuable than paying Love or Wiggins 25M+ per season to create a near impressive trio of defensively inept 20ppg scorers.

The market is absolutely flooded with 2016 expiring's, driving Hassan's value down as an expiring. The market is absolutely not in demand of traditional centers, driving Hassan's value down as a player.

If we can resign Melo to the BAE and keep Hassan at 20M over two years, we can still use some MLE money to sign a backup PG. I think using Simons to move higher in the draft wouldn't be a bad idea either. We need to decide on Little as a future PF or SF before this draft though.

Of course Hassan has no value alone. We all knew this going into the season. The idea was always to attach a pick and a prospect to nab a good player who fits better.

I just can't get on board with resigning Hassan unless it's a 1 year deal. I would sooooooooooooooooooooooooo rather bring back Skal for cheap and let him and Collins get backup 5 minutes. The Blazers should be saving that money for playable wings. You either move Whiteside or let him walk. That's all there is to it (He's not accepting a 1 year deal). He's completely unplayable alongside Nurkic, and his interviews don't sound like a guy who's willing to come off the bench. He's talking about playing the 4 if he has to, when he can't even close out on Jokic.

There's absolutely ZERO chance that bringing back Whiteside on a multi year $10M/yr contract is a good move. Once the extensions kick in. Portland is probably 2 MLEs from the luxury tax. Maybe less. Resigning Whiteside sounds like a disaster in the making, that's going to pinch Portland out of extending it's own players for a guy who struggles to stay engaged from quarter to quarter as a starter. A front office running the team like a rudderless ship in the arctic circle.

[Roy The Natural]

I do think athletically Whiteside is worth bringing back as long as his contract doesn't place the
team into luxury taxes. He's likely as good a player we'll find with the MLE, and if D-Train is
right about him signing for $10-12 Million, he's insurance in case Nurk becomes a hard sign in
two seasons. If he wants more, let him walk.

I suspect Portland will keep Ariza's expiring contract in 2021 around unless he really falls off in
the remaining games in the season. The goal is to get under the tax line but still field a good
team but this team is going to be in two parts for there is a growing number of project players
like Hoard, Brown, Gabriel who likely will be on the roster next season along with other young
players like Collins, Simons and Trent. Jr who will be expected to be rotation players along with
the team's first pick and Little who likely be end of the rotation players. If Portland brings back
Whiteside or a MLE guy and Ariza that's 10 players to go with Dame/CJ, Nurk. Other players are
Hood (injured) and perhaps Skal, Melo (free agent) or some new two way players.

The question remains whether this team is really good enough to compete with the two LA teams
and likely a rested GSW team.

There's NO WAY this team should re-up Whiteside for anything more than a 1 year deal. Might not even be worth that if the Blazers end up in a position to draft Toppin or Okongwu. I'd rather bring back Skal for like 2 for $7M.

[DaVoiceMaster]

It appears more and more likely that the Blazers stand pat with what they now have.

If the Blazers/players pick up their options, the Blazers will have 11 players under contract for $109,795,613. The Blazers still owe $4,757,775 to Nicholson and Varejao, bringing the salary to $114,533,388.

What type of salary would Whiteside, Melo, and Labisserie command? Whiteside - $12m, Melo - Vets Min, LaBisserie - $4m? That puts the team's salary at $132.5 million. Frankly, I would not pick up the team option for Swanigan, which would save the Blazers $3,665,787 for a team total of $129 million. I assume two-way players (Hoard and Brown) go away?


Dept Chart
PG Lillard / McCollum / Simons / Hezonja
SG McCollum / Hood / Trent Jr / Simons
SF Hood / Ariza / Melo / Little / Hezonja
PF Collins / Melo / LaBisserie / Swanigan
_C Nurkic / Whiteside / Collins / LaBisserie / Swanigan

The real question with the depth chart above is... can Nurkic & Whiteside co-exist? Who starts and who comes off the bench? Can they actually play on the court together? I don't think so. What will Hood look like next season? I wouldn't mind finding a starting SF, but that may need to wait for Hood and Ariza's contracts to expire. I also wouldn't mind finding a guard to come off the bench that offers more than what Simons and Trent Jr. currently offer.

The Blazers need to hire an Assistant Coach that specializes in defense cuz whoever is doing that this year... blows!!!

[Roy The Natural]

It appears more and more likely that the Blazers stand pat with what they now have.

If the Blazers/players pick up their options, the Blazers will have 11 players under contract for $109,795,613. The Blazers still owe $4,757,775 to Nicholson and Varejao, bringing the salary to $114,533,388.

What type of salary would Whiteside, Melo, and Labisserie command? Whiteside - $12m, Melo - Vets Min, LaBisserie - $4m? That puts the team's salary at $132.5 million. Frankly, I would not pick up the team option for Swanigan, which would save the Blazers $3,665,787 for a team total of $129 million. I assume two-way players (Hoard and Brown) go away?


Dept Chart
PG Lillard / McCollum / Simons / Hezonja
SG McCollum / Hood / Trent Jr / Simons
SF Hood / Ariza / Melo / Little / Hezonja
PF Collins / Melo / LaBisserie / Swanigan
_C Nurkic / Whiteside / Collins / LaBisserie / Swanigan

The real question with the depth chart above is... can Nurkic & Whiteside co-exist? Who starts and who comes off the bench? Can they actually play on the court together? I don't think so. What will Hood look like next season? I wouldn't mind finding a starting SF, but that may need to wait for Hood and Ariza's contracts to expire. I also wouldn't mind finding a guard to come off the bench that offers more than what Simons and Trent Jr. currently offer.

The Blazers need to hire an Assistant Coach that specializes in defense cuz whoever is doing that this year... blows!!!

The luxury apron is estimated at $139M.

Here's the issue you run into with resigning Whiteside. You have Zach Collins extension to negotiate, and the guards extensions kicking in soon. I assume that Zach will probably hit RFA as he tries to prove himself. I'd assume that Portland would be using their full MLE on SOMETHING. Some sort of wing player. Even if it's just bringing Harkless back for $5M/yr.

The only way Whiteside should be brought back is on a 1 year deal. Whiteside at $12M/yr could cripple the Blazers financially going forward when they try to resign their own players, or prevent them from picking up better fitting pieces with a full MLE. Signing Whiteside would be a mistake. A bad one.

We've been begging for financial flexibility in this forum for 3 years... and now we want to throw it away to bring back an immobile backup center who doesn't give consistent effort, and has been talking about playing the 4 when the incumbent comes back? I feel like I've entered the twilight zone where everyone around me has been altered by some weird drug that has made them buy into Whiteside playing nice as a backup. Why not just bring back Skal for 1/4 the price and let him and Collins rotate in at the 4/5. Possibly draft another bigman or pickup one in FA for the BAE.

[Epicurus]

Neither Skal nor Collins are the rebounders that Whiteside is. Call him whatever derogatories you wish, but his rebounding and shot efficiency are quite good. Not easy to replace, except via wishful thinking and overestimations of others' talents.

Be aware I am not arguing either way for his return (although I am partial to the team having little dropoff with centers--like the Nurk and Turk tandem). I am just wanting to counter the Whiteside is nearly useless frames being offered here and elsewhere.

[Norm2953]

Skal has been known to be made of glass but I'm fine paying Hassan if that's what Dame wants

[Nitro912]

How about Whiteside/Hezonja for Harrell, Zubac and Harkless. Works in trade machine.

Portland: brings back a backup center we could still start this year. Brings a starting PF in Harrell and another wing that knows our system.

Clips: Gives them a starting center that can help them compete for the title. We know what Whiteside can do and I def think it'll put the Clips as favorites if it hasn't already.