Now what?

[m0ng0]

Smons is nowhere in the same stratosphere as Dame as a player, Dame who could win games on his own force of will alone, they are not comparable

Milwaukee is calling on line 5

[BlazersBroncos]

Smons is nowhere in the same stratosphere as Dame as a player, Dame who could win games on his own force of will alone, they are not comparable

Milwaukee is calling on line 5

So 33 year old Dame on a new team not being as game changing as the guy we watched for 10+ years negates his accomplishments here?

[m0ng0]

Of course not, but let's not get facts in the way of a good story! You say a 25 year old Simons can't do things, I think that's premature.

[m0ng0]

Smons is nowhere in the same stratosphere as Dame as a player, Dame who could win games on his own force of will alone, they are not comparable

Milwaukee is calling on line 5

So 33 year old Dame on a new team not being as game changing as the guy we watched for 10+ years negates his accomplishments here?

Also is there an age where we can't judge performance any more? I mean they are paying him a sh*t ton

[BlazersBroncos]

Of course not, but let's not get facts in the way of a good story! You say a 25 year old Simons can't do things, I think that's premature.

I am saying that a 25 year old Simons is not likely to drastically improve. Its tremendously uncommon for someone that age, who has been in the league for 6 seasons and played 8,000+ minutes over 320 games to suddenly add drastically to his bag of tricks.

Simons is what he is - a player in the Tyler Herro / Colin Sexton / Jordan Clarkson / Jamal Crawford / Lou Williams mold - a elite scoring 6th man.

Trying to stick to players of comparable age - what if anything does Simons do that makes him a better talent than Herro or Sexton? Do we, as Blazers fans, view players like Herro and Sexton as anything special? Or are they seen as what they are - super 6th men who might be starters on a few teams with a specific build. (I would add that Sexon is coming off a season much better statistically - both in raw and advanced stats - than anything Simons has ever had and is locked into a cheaper contract to boot - so if Simons is a building block here we must also accept that Colin Sexton is a notch above and a clear part of the UTA rebuild - which any UTA fan will say is nonsense).

I would say that prior to last season Poole was in this mix as well but I dont want to dilute the comparison and include him due to his last season with WAS where he was a clear notch below the likes of Simons / Herro / Sexton.

[Walton1one]

Even with the uneven year, he had in MIL LY, I would’ve taken Dame last year in a heartbeat over Simons.

[m0ng0]

Rock on bro... dont ever complain about salary cap again

[JasonStern]

All this angst about the impact if Simons left, what we win 18 Instead of 21 games?

It's not about the win total. It's about being competitive in most games. Watching Scoot Henderson put up the worst +/- in NBA history as the Blazers get blown out by 60 is not entertaining. Getting humiliated nightly isn't developing him - it's hurting his confidence. Hopefully, he works on his game in the off-season and has a rebound sophomore season. But at this point, he's looking like a Ricky Rubio tier player. That isn't bad. But it's just average, and not what you would hope for from a #3 pick.

Blazers should be using that split luxury tax money on development coaches. But I'm sure the Vulcans are just using it to offset the drop in ticket sales and TV revenue due to having an unwatchable product.

[Norm2953]

There is something about at least having a watchable product on the floor for the fans to see

All those who keep advocating and would be pleased to see a team lose as many games as possible
forget the players on the roster who could very well demand to be elsewhere, starting with
Sharpe who will be eligible for an extension next summer.

Jason is very correct in that at least being competitive as opposed to losing by 30 points each night
is preferable to constant humiliation each night

[Village Idiot]

While I´d love to trade Simons I would also very much like to move on from Ayton to give Clingan a clear role and developmental playing time.

Therefore how about this?

Option 1: Atlanta - Portland - the simple version

Portland trades:

DeAndre Ayton

Atlanta trades:

Clint Capela - ending contract
Larry Nance Jr. - ending contract
LA Lakers 2025 1st

Atlanta gets a younger center with some upside if he can iron out some of the kinks in his game.

Portland clears up the center rotation, it can let Capela and/or Nance go, buying them out with an off-set when they sign elsewhere
and also gets a pick which will probably be between 10-20. Being upprotected you never know.

Option 2: Atlanta - Portland - LA Lakers

Atlanta - unchanged from option 1

LA Lakers:

trade: Gabe Vincent
receive: Larry Nance Jr.

better positional fit

Portland:

as option 1 except receive a guard, also with an ending deal

Option 3: Atlanta - Portland - New Orleans

Atlanta - unchanged from option 1

New Orleans:
trade: CJ McCollum, lower of own or Milwaukee 1sts
receive: Timelord, Capela

Portland:

trade: Ayton, RW3
receive: CJ, LNjr, LA Lakers 2025 1st, New Orleans or Milwaukee 1st (less advantageous)

New Orleans gets not one but two veteran centers to help them compete in the West. Portland gets a second first for taking on the additional year of CJ who is neither wanted nor needed (nothing agains CJ, we love you dude)

[m0ng0]

Why don't we see if Aytons play late last season translates to this season? Towards the end he looked more comfortable and was doing the things we hoped he would do. Why would we trade him for any of the players you presented? Buying more salary cap room really does not help us. Capella is a stiff and quite honestly so is Nance.

How much more space or minutes does Clingan need? It's a given already that he won't play more than 20 minutes per game, if we trade Ayton AND Williams for filler and a draft pick are we supposed to roll with Reath for 28 minutes a night? If Clingan gets in foul trouble (which you know will happen) than what? Well Jabari I guess your up?

The idea here is to tank, yet also improve isn't it? Freeing up cap space is so overrated at this time.

[Wizenheimer]

While I´d love to trade Simons I would also very much like to move on from Ayton to give Clingan a clear role and developmental playing time.

Therefore how about this?

Option 1: Atlanta - Portland - the simple version

Portland trades:

DeAndre Ayton

Atlanta trades:

Clint Capela - ending contract
Larry Nance Jr. - ending contract
LA Lakers 2025 1st

Atlanta gets a younger center with some upside if he can iron out some of the kinks in his game.

Portland clears up the center rotation, it can let Capela and/or Nance go, buying them out with an off-set when they sign elsewhere
and also gets a pick which will probably be between 10-20. Being upprotected you never know.

Option 2: Atlanta - Portland - LA Lakers

Atlanta - unchanged from option 1

LA Lakers:

trade: Gabe Vincent
receive: Larry Nance Jr.

better positional fit

Portland:

as option 1 except receive a guard, also with an ending deal

Option 3: Atlanta - Portland - New Orleans

Atlanta - unchanged from option 1

New Orleans:
trade: CJ McCollum, lower of own or Milwaukee 1sts
receive: Timelord, Capela

Portland:

trade: Ayton, RW3
receive: CJ, LNjr, LA Lakers 2025 1st, New Orleans or Milwaukee 1st (less advantageous)

New Orleans gets not one but two veteran centers to help them compete in the West. Portland gets a second first for taking on the additional year of CJ who is neither wanted nor needed (nothing agains CJ, we love you dude)

I suppose the most likely of any of these unlikely options is a 3 team trade option that includes Ayton and Ingram, not CJ. Just seems like the Pelicans want to move on from Ingram, or more apt, the Pels and Ingram want to move on from each other. And Portland never should have added Ayton...that was just dumb IMO, and it's one of the major reasons I have serious doubts about Cronin

in the last couple of years he was a Blazer, I couldn't stand watching CJ dominate the ball. And I've gotten sick of watching Simons do the same. Having CJ and Simons on the team would be nauseating and coma-inducing

[BlazersBroncos]

I would be floored if the Blazers took back CJ - especially w/o moving off Simons. Thats a hell of a lot of money tied up in 2 tiny, no defense playing super-6th man types.

Watching Simons and CJ share the floor would be a chore.

I think we simply try to revamp RWIII's value and move him sometime in the season. They hopefully Ayton can put up some nice empty stats that get a stupid team to bite on next summer - if that doesnt happen simply let him expire and hand the reigns at C to Donovan at that time.

[m0ng0]

I think we simply try to revamp RWIII's value and move him sometime in the season. They hopefully Ayton can put up some nice empty stats that get a stupid team to bite on next summer - if that doesnt happen simply let him expire and hand the reigns at C to Donovan at that time.

I am so sick of this narrative, please define empty stats, what is this metric or criteria you are using?

[Walton1one]

There is something about at least having a watchable product on the floor for the fans to see

All those who keep advocating and would be pleased to see a team lose as many games as possible
forget the players on the roster who could very well demand to be elsewhere, starting with
Sharpe who will be eligible for an extension next summer.

Jason is very correct in that at least being competitive as opposed to losing by 30 points each night
is preferable to constant humiliation each night

I hear what both you and Jason are saying, however...

They were not watchable last year WITH Simons & Grant in the lineup, and now the concern is that w\o them they may be what? More unwatchable? They lost by 60pts TWICE LY, one of those games had both Grant & Simons playing.

I'd rather lose with young players and at least see what those players are capable of than lose with players whom we already know what they can do and the team still sucks with them.

If the team is beyond awful by playing the young guys, well then we know who to blame don't we? The GM who drafted them.

[BlazersBroncos]

There is something about at least having a watchable product on the floor for the fans to see

All those who keep advocating and would be pleased to see a team lose as many games as possible
forget the players on the roster who could very well demand to be elsewhere, starting with
Sharpe who will be eligible for an extension next summer.

Jason is very correct in that at least being competitive as opposed to losing by 30 points each night
is preferable to constant humiliation each night

I hear what both you and Jason are saying, however...

They were not watchable last year WITH Simons & Grant in the lineup, and now the concern is that w\o them they may be what? More unwatchable? They lost by 60pts TWICE LY, one of those games had both Grant & Simons playing.

I'd rather lose with young players and at least see what those players are capable of than lose with players whom we already know what they can do and the team still sucks with them.

If the team is beyond awful by playing the young guys, well then we know who to blame don't we? The GM who drafted them.

Thankfully we probably wont have to watch them that much. When its clear this team sucks we will bench the vets...again.

[m0ng0]

There is something about at least having a watchable product on the floor for the fans to see

All those who keep advocating and would be pleased to see a team lose as many games as possible
forget the players on the roster who could very well demand to be elsewhere, starting with
Sharpe who will be eligible for an extension next summer.

Jason is very correct in that at least being competitive as opposed to losing by 30 points each night
is preferable to constant humiliation each night

I hear what both you and Jason are saying, however...

They were not watchable last year WITH Simons & Grant in the lineup, and now the concern is that w\o them they may be what? More unwatchable? They lost by 60pts TWICE LY, one of those games had both Grant & Simons playing.

I'd rather lose with young players and at least see what those players are capable of than lose with players whom we already know what they can do and the team still sucks with them.

If the team is beyond awful by playing the young guys, well then we know who to blame don't we? The GM who drafted them.

Define young? Let me guess...younger than Ant and Ayton?

[BlazersBroncos]

Name a couple players that took big leaps after hitting the below metrics -

5+ seasons played
Age 24 or older
300+ games played
8,000+ minutes played

I am talking going from middling level starter on bad team (Ant and Ayton) to a Top-3, heck Top-4, player on a perennial playoff squad type starter.

[m0ng0]

Name a couple players that took big leaps after hitting the below metrics -

5+ seasons played
Age 24 or older
300+ games played
8,000+ minutes played

I am talking going from middling level starter on bad team (Ant and Ayton) to a Top-3, heck Top-4, player on a perennial playoff squad type starter.

So you're saying if they are not good by 24 we should just get rid of them? Just trying to be clear, so let's move on to "top 3 or 4" on a perennial playoff squad?
How do you gage that one? Points +/- or just your eyeball test? Surely you have a metric for that part right?

[m0ng0]

So between Grant, Ayton and Simons who do you think has played the most games?