CJ TRADE IDEAS

[d-train]

Sixers fan in peace here. If I’m Morey, I do everything to pry Dame away from you guys. IF that doesn’t work, I’m all for acquiring CJ.

Simmons + Hill for McCollum + Covington + 2023 FRP + 2025 FRP

CJ and Covington aren't available. Simmons is attractive, but we are better off keeping CJ and you are better if you can get him. You would have to get good draft picks to add with Simmons to get CJ. Sixers need to add value, not Blazers. More realistic is Powell and Covington for Simmons. Sixers don't have the assets to get one of Blazers core players, assuming Embiid is off the table.

How do you know they are unavailable? I'd be surprised if the Blazers were not looking to trace CJ.

They are unavailable if you believe Blazers are trying to get better. Olshey says he will trade any player for a better player. I don't sense Sixers want to trade us better players. Sixers want better players too.

Even if you believe Simmons is better than CJ: He doesn't complement Lillard as well as CJ does. Both, Simmons and Lillard are better players when they have the basketball. Their abilities with the ball are what set them apart from other players. Last time I checked, NBA games are played with just 1 ball. And, I don't believe Sixers are interested in trading Simmons. Of course, they want CJ.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

Sixers fan in peace here. If I’m Morey, I do everything to pry Dame away from you guys. IF that doesn’t work, I’m all for acquiring CJ.

Simmons + Hill for McCollum + Covington + 2023 FRP + 2025 FRP

Those FRPs are deal killers imo. I don’t think Simmons has that much more value over CJ at this point, not after that series he just had.

I would do CJ for Simmons straight up, but nothing else from either side (aside from maybe some ancillary pieces for salary matching if needed).

Man I have been a proponent of throwing a huge trade package for Simmons but I am finding myself here as well and maybe even taking it a step further.

I just keep coming back to all the things about Batum that frustrated us, how he could just be so passive at times. I really don't know what happened behind the scenes but the way Ben seemed to melt in the playoffs is incredibly worrisome. Maybe a change of scenery would help some of it, he is incredibly talented, but those type mental limitations are just as real as CJ's physical limitations.

I don't even know if he would really be a solution to our problems. In crunch time, when teams take Lillard out of it, you need someone to step up and take advantage of having a gap in the defense and a player who cannot shoot and is afraid to be sent to the foul line is not the right answer. Maybe Norman Powell is able to be that instead but even he lacks a solid midrange pull-up game to be a threat which is sometimes just damn necessary to make in the playoffs, despite what analytics try to say these days so honestly not having a 3 level scorer next to Lillard is still a problem.

[DusterBuster]

Sixers fan in peace here. If I’m Morey, I do everything to pry Dame away from you guys. IF that doesn’t work, I’m all for acquiring CJ.

Simmons + Hill for McCollum + Covington + 2023 FRP + 2025 FRP

Those FRPs are deal killers imo. I don’t think Simmons has that much more value over CJ at this point, not after that series he just had.

I would do CJ for Simmons straight up, but nothing else from either side (aside from maybe some ancillary pieces for salary matching if needed).

Man I have been a proponent of throwing a huge trade package for Simmons but I am finding myself here as well and maybe even taking it a step further.

I just keep coming back to all the things about Batum that frustrated us, how he could just be so passive at times. I really don't know what happened behind the scenes but the way Ben seemed to melt in the playoffs is incredibly worrisome. Maybe a change of scenery would help some of it, he is incredibly talented, but those type mental limitations are just as real as CJ's physical limitations.

I don't even know if he would really be a solution to our problems. In crunch time, when teams take Lillard out of it, you need someone to step up and take advantage of having a gap in the defense and a player who cannot shoot and is afraid to be sent to the foul line is not the right answer. Maybe Norman Powell is able to be that instead but even he lacks a solid midrange pull-up game to be a threat which is sometimes just damn necessary to make in the playoffs, despite what analytics try to say these days so honestly not having a 3 level scorer next to Lillard is still a problem.

This is a totally fair concern. When the team needs a bucket because defenses are selling out to stopping Dame, Simmons doesn’t exactly inspire confidence (which is a massive understatement) that he can pick up and carry the team through.

[JasonStern]

I know this is a Blazers board, and I know Simmons' value is low at the moment, but the Blazers aren't landing a 24-year old 3x all-star for McCollum straight up. Morey would definitely find another team to outbid that offer.

Sixers fan in peace here. If I’m Morey, I do everything to pry Dame away from you guys. IF that doesn’t work, I’m all for acquiring CJ.

Simmons + Hill for McCollum + Covington + 2023 FRP + 2025 FRP

Replace Covington with Derrick Jones Jr. or take out the Covington/Hill swap, wait until after the draft so 2022+2024 1sts can be traded, and I like this for Portland. Covington was just acquired with two late 1sts, so that's likely how the team still values him.

But in all honesty, Covington wouldn't be a deal-breaker and there's probably at least three other teams that would out-bid Portland. Having Olshey as a GM also doesn't instill much confidence in making a big move.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

Those FRPs are deal killers imo. I don’t think Simmons has that much more value over CJ at this point, not after that series he just had.

I would do CJ for Simmons straight up, but nothing else from either side (aside from maybe some ancillary pieces for salary matching if needed).

Man I have been a proponent of throwing a huge trade package for Simmons but I am finding myself here as well and maybe even taking it a step further.

I just keep coming back to all the things about Batum that frustrated us, how he could just be so passive at times. I really don't know what happened behind the scenes but the way Ben seemed to melt in the playoffs is incredibly worrisome. Maybe a change of scenery would help some of it, he is incredibly talented, but those type mental limitations are just as real as CJ's physical limitations.

I don't even know if he would really be a solution to our problems. In crunch time, when teams take Lillard out of it, you need someone to step up and take advantage of having a gap in the defense and a player who cannot shoot and is afraid to be sent to the foul line is not the right answer. Maybe Norman Powell is able to be that instead but even he lacks a solid midrange pull-up game to be a threat which is sometimes just damn necessary to make in the playoffs, despite what analytics try to say these days so honestly not having a 3 level scorer next to Lillard is still a problem.

This is a totally fair concern. When the team needs a bucket because defenses are selling out to stopping Dame, Simmons doesn’t exactly inspire confidence (which is a massive understatement) that he can pick up and carry the team through.

So what we are really getting is a game manager through 3 quarters. We don't really need that anymore.

Defense would be nice but defense without offense doesn't seem to be winning these playoffs.

[d-train]

I know this is a Blazers board, and I know Simmons' value is low at the moment, but the Blazers aren't landing a 24-year old 3x all-star for McCollum straight up. Morey would definitely find another team to outbid that offer.

It's not our concern, what other teams would give for Simmons. Our concern is what would he be worth to us. He isn't worth Lillard or CJ. He could be worth almost anything else within reason. Olshey has proven his willingness to 'not build a team buy the numbers.' Olshey might trade a center from a already small team, for a positionless player, if said positionless player were a better player.

Money and the CBA are factors. Simmons contract would put Blazers deep into tax hell.

I don't see Blazers adding a $34M contract to Lillard, CJ, and Powell. Powell can be traded, but not now, unless as S&T.

[Effigy]

I know this is a Blazers board, and I know Simmons' value is low at the moment, but the Blazers aren't landing a 24-year old 3x all-star for McCollum straight up. Morey would definitely find another team to outbid that offer.

Who is he going to find that's available that's better? CJ is a better player than Simmons is right now after those playoffs. Ben has serious mental problems that honestly, may not be fixable. Now maybe we take a chance flipping them more or less straight up because what we have done isn't working, but having to ADD first round picks when we're offering the guy who's already playing better is non sensical. And I don't think there are other teams that are going to beat that offer. I realize it's hardly meaningful, but Look at the trade board. The offers are guys like Beasely and Rozier - and the fans of those teams dont' want to make those deals!


This reminds me so much of the years of people saying 'Portland needs to trade CJ!' but never actually saying what we should trade him for. As if somehow it's so simple that any trade we make will make us better. It's easy to say Philly can get more than this for Simmons, but who can they get realistically?

[JasonStern]

I know this is a Blazers board, and I know Simmons' value is low at the moment, but the Blazers aren't landing a 24-year old 3x all-star for McCollum straight up. Morey would definitely find another team to outbid that offer.

Who is he going to find that's available that's better? CJ is a better player than Simmons is right now after those playoffs. Ben has serious mental problems that honestly, may not be fixable. Now maybe we take a chance flipping them more or less straight up because what we have done isn't working, but having to ADD first round picks when we're offering the guy who's already playing better is non sensical. And I don't think there are other teams that are going to beat that offer. I realize it's hardly meaningful, but Look at the trade board. The offers are guys like Beasely and Rozier - and the fans of those teams dont' want to make those deals!


This reminds me so much of the years of people saying 'Portland needs to trade CJ!' but never actually saying what we should trade him for. As if somehow it's so simple that any trade we make will make us better. It's easy to say Philly can get more than this for Simmons, but who can they get realistically?

Who knows? They should be trying to acquire win now pieces to appease Embiid, but who knows what direction Morey has sold ownership on?

Honestly, while Simmons is the better player, the often suggested CJ for Tobias Harris trade would cost less and make the roster far more balanced. Dame/Powell/Covington/Harris/Nurkić seems like it would have far better spacing than Dame/Powell/Covington/Simmons/Nurkić. I just don't see the spacing working well with Simmons and Nurkić. That's why I would be incredibly hesitant to include Covington in a Simmons trade. While he's not an amazing shooter by any means, he's still effective enough that he has to be defended. But I guess the counter-point there would be defense. Adding a DPOY level player like Simmons might move Portland up to 27th in league defense.

The 76ers really should wait until the trade deadline before they consider making a Simmons move. Let everyone forget about the playoffs and see shiny regular season stats. Find a GM on the hot seat desperate to make a move. Who knows? Maybe it'll be Olshey.

[The Sebastian Express]

I don't think it does make the roster more balanced. Simmons brings someone who can actually run the offense besides Dame back into the starting lineup. Consistently. Effectively. He's just got to work on his shot and his confidence. Dame is a great leader, he'd never throw Simmons under the bus like Doc and Embiid did last night in their post-game conferences.

Ben could switch to small ball five when Nurk is out and Nurk operates well in the high post with passing and he can and will take shots from the three point line. Is he an ideal stretch five? No. Can he be one in certain situations? Yeah. And I think Simmons can play five against everyone in the west besides Jokic.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

I just worry more and more about how bringing a guy into the locker-room with his kind of issues can end up really poisoning the well.

The more I think about it, he has a toxic combination of immense talent and entitlement meaning he has to be catered to but then a lack of real drive, confidence and passion for the game to back that up, like empty calories. Reading things like him refusing to work with a shooting coach and otherwise being uncoachable, not really improving his game but acting like there is no issue with that, it just could really create a terrible environment for the team. That attitude is just in total contrast to the tone that Lillard and CJ have set by being the kind of driven players who had to make the most of what they got, who were never handed anything or anointed the way Simmons was. Breaking that mentality up and bringing in what might just be a spoiled and entitled kid might work on paper but in the real world with real humans it could totally wreck a work environment.


I dunno, you have to take risks to get ahead. The only way I would trade for Simmons at this point is if I could talk to him and understand where he is coming from and if he is willing to accept Damian's tutelage and leadership. There is so much we as fans do not know about a player as a person. It may be entirely possible that Ben has something like untreated depression or anxiety and he can made to recognize that so he can keep getting better but the things I have heard do not suggest he has that drive. His comments and actions are all very aloof and off-putting instead.

[JRoy]

Those FRPs are deal killers imo. I don’t think Simmons has that much more value over CJ at this point, not after that series he just had.

I would do CJ for Simmons straight up, but nothing else from either side (aside from maybe some ancillary pieces for salary matching if needed).

Man I have been a proponent of throwing a huge trade package for Simmons but I am finding myself here as well and maybe even taking it a step further.

I just keep coming back to all the things about Batum that frustrated us, how he could just be so passive at times. I really don't know what happened behind the scenes but the way Ben seemed to melt in the playoffs is incredibly worrisome. Maybe a change of scenery would help some of it, he is incredibly talented, but those type mental limitations are just as real as CJ's physical limitations.

I don't even know if he would really be a solution to our problems. In crunch time, when teams take Lillard out of it, you need someone to step up and take advantage of having a gap in the defense and a player who cannot shoot and is afraid to be sent to the foul line is not the right answer. Maybe Norman Powell is able to be that instead but even he lacks a solid midrange pull-up game to be a threat which is sometimes just damn necessary to make in the playoffs, despite what analytics try to say these days so honestly not having a 3 level scorer next to Lillard is still a problem.

This is a totally fair concern. When the team needs a bucket because defenses are selling out to stopping Dame, Simmons doesn’t exactly inspire confidence (which is a massive understatement) that he can pick up and carry the team through.

How about if we need a stop?

[DusterBuster]

Man I have been a proponent of throwing a huge trade package for Simmons but I am finding myself here as well and maybe even taking it a step further.

I just keep coming back to all the things about Batum that frustrated us, how he could just be so passive at times. I really don't know what happened behind the scenes but the way Ben seemed to melt in the playoffs is incredibly worrisome. Maybe a change of scenery would help some of it, he is incredibly talented, but those type mental limitations are just as real as CJ's physical limitations.

I don't even know if he would really be a solution to our problems. In crunch time, when teams take Lillard out of it, you need someone to step up and take advantage of having a gap in the defense and a player who cannot shoot and is afraid to be sent to the foul line is not the right answer. Maybe Norman Powell is able to be that instead but even he lacks a solid midrange pull-up game to be a threat which is sometimes just damn necessary to make in the playoffs, despite what analytics try to say these days so honestly not having a 3 level scorer next to Lillard is still a problem.

This is a totally fair concern. When the team needs a bucket because defenses are selling out to stopping Dame, Simmons doesn’t exactly inspire confidence (which is a massive understatement) that he can pick up and carry the team through.

So what we are really getting is a game manager through 3 quarters. We don't really need that anymore.

Defense would be nice but defense without offense doesn't seem to be winning these playoffs.

Totally a fair assessment. I think I would be willing to take the gamble just because we need to shake things up very clearly and I don't really know who else better the Blazers can get in return for CJ at this point. I also think a change of scenery and style of play could really do Simmons a world of good as he's just a terrible fit in Philly.

This however...

I just worry more and more about how bringing a guy into the locker-room with his kind of issues can end up really poisoning the well.

The more I think about it, he has a toxic combination of immense talent and entitlement meaning he has to be catered to but then a lack of real drive, confidence and passion for the game to back that up, like empty calories. Reading things like him refusing to work with a shooting coach and otherwise being uncoachable, not really improving his game but acting like there is no issue with that, it just could really create a terrible environment for the team. That attitude is just in total contrast to the tone that Lillard and CJ have set by being the kind of driven players who had to make the most of what they got, who were never handed anything or anointed the way Simmons was. Breaking that mentality up and bringing in what might just be a spoiled and entitled kid might work on paper but in the real world with real humans it could totally wreck a work environment.


I dunno, you have to take risks to get ahead. The only way I would trade for Simmons at this point is if I could talk to him and understand where he is coming from and if he is willing to accept Damian's tutelage and leadership. There is so much we as fans do not know about a player as a person. It may be entirely possible that Ben has something like untreated depression or anxiety and he can made to recognize that so he can keep getting better but the things I have heard do not suggest he has that drive. His comments and actions are all very aloof and off-putting instead.

I don't agree with at all. Well... maybe so much not that I don't agree with it, but I don't really get the need for concern. Dame is almost to year 10 with the Blazers and has proven every single year that he has full command and control of the lockerroom. There have been guys brought in with this same concern and every time they've had no problem conforming to Dame's leadership. I don't see why Simmons would be any different. With a lesser leader spearheading the team, sure, I get it. But Dame has more than proven this isn't something Blazer fans need to be concerned about.

That said, one might start to question Dame's continued commitment to being that leader for the Blazers given how poorly this season ended. I think he might be all the more-so frustrated now than he was when the season ended given how this season's playoffs have turned out. This year has really been a wide-open season where any team who's hot could legit win a title. I could see that really sticking in Dame's mind as a "if we couldn't do it this year, then are we ever gonna figure it out here?" moment imo.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

I just worry more and more about how bringing a guy into the locker-room with his kind of issues can end up really poisoning the well.

The more I think about it, he has a toxic combination of immense talent and entitlement meaning he has to be catered to but then a lack of real drive, confidence and passion for the game to back that up, like empty calories. Reading things like him refusing to work with a shooting coach and otherwise being uncoachable, not really improving his game but acting like there is no issue with that, it just could really create a terrible environment for the team. That attitude is just in total contrast to the tone that Lillard and CJ have set by being the kind of driven players who had to make the most of what they got, who were never handed anything or anointed the way Simmons was. Breaking that mentality up and bringing in what might just be a spoiled and entitled kid might work on paper but in the real world with real humans it could totally wreck a work environment.


I dunno, you have to take risks to get ahead. The only way I would trade for Simmons at this point is if I could talk to him and understand where he is coming from and if he is willing to accept Damian's tutelage and leadership. There is so much we as fans do not know about a player as a person. It may be entirely possible that Ben has something like untreated depression or anxiety and he can made to recognize that so he can keep getting better but the things I have heard do not suggest he has that drive. His comments and actions are all very aloof and off-putting instead.

I don't agree with at all. Well... maybe so much not that I don't agree with it, but I don't really get the need for concern. Dame is almost to year 10 with the Blazers and has proven every single year that he has full command and control of the lockerroom. There have been guys brought in with this same concern and every time they've had no problem conforming to Dame's leadership. I don't see why Simmons would be any different. With a lesser leader spearheading the team, sure, I get it. But Dame has more than proven this isn't something Blazer fans need to be concerned about.

That said, one might start to question Dame's continued commitment to being that leader for the Blazers given how poorly this season ended. I think he might be all the more-so frustrated now than he was when the season ended given how this season's playoffs have turned out. This year has really been a wide-open season where any team who's hot could legit win a title. I could see that really sticking in Dame's mind as a "if we couldn't do it this year, then are we ever gonna figure it out here?" moment imo.

I dunno, it sounds like maybe you do get the cause for concern. If Damian is already wondering if we are ever going to figure it out and we ship off CJ for what may be a super talented kid but who lacks the same drive that CJ had, if that didn't work out then wouldn't that further cement in his mind that this franchise doesn't know what it takes, the kind of mentality and drive that it takes, that Damian believes that it takes, to figure it out?

[DusterBuster]

I just worry more and more about how bringing a guy into the locker-room with his kind of issues can end up really poisoning the well.

The more I think about it, he has a toxic combination of immense talent and entitlement meaning he has to be catered to but then a lack of real drive, confidence and passion for the game to back that up, like empty calories. Reading things like him refusing to work with a shooting coach and otherwise being uncoachable, not really improving his game but acting like there is no issue with that, it just could really create a terrible environment for the team. That attitude is just in total contrast to the tone that Lillard and CJ have set by being the kind of driven players who had to make the most of what they got, who were never handed anything or anointed the way Simmons was. Breaking that mentality up and bringing in what might just be a spoiled and entitled kid might work on paper but in the real world with real humans it could totally wreck a work environment.


I dunno, you have to take risks to get ahead. The only way I would trade for Simmons at this point is if I could talk to him and understand where he is coming from and if he is willing to accept Damian's tutelage and leadership. There is so much we as fans do not know about a player as a person. It may be entirely possible that Ben has something like untreated depression or anxiety and he can made to recognize that so he can keep getting better but the things I have heard do not suggest he has that drive. His comments and actions are all very aloof and off-putting instead.

I don't agree with at all. Well... maybe so much not that I don't agree with it, but I don't really get the need for concern. Dame is almost to year 10 with the Blazers and has proven every single year that he has full command and control of the lockerroom. There have been guys brought in with this same concern and every time they've had no problem conforming to Dame's leadership. I don't see why Simmons would be any different. With a lesser leader spearheading the team, sure, I get it. But Dame has more than proven this isn't something Blazer fans need to be concerned about.

That said, one might start to question Dame's continued commitment to being that leader for the Blazers given how poorly this season ended. I think he might be all the more-so frustrated now than he was when the season ended given how this season's playoffs have turned out. This year has really been a wide-open season where any team who's hot could legit win a title. I could see that really sticking in Dame's mind as a "if we couldn't do it this year, then are we ever gonna figure it out here?" moment imo.

I dunno, it sounds like maybe you do get the cause for concern. If Damian is already wondering if we are ever going to figure it out and we ship off CJ for what may be a super talented kid but who lacks the same drive that CJ had, if that didn't work out then wouldn't that further cement in his mind that this franchise doesn't know what it takes, the kind of mentality and drive that it takes, that Damian believes that it takes, to figure it out?

That's fair, but if that's the case as I laid out, then the franchise is pretty forked over anyway when it comes to Dame, so swing for the fences and if they wiff, at least there's a building block in place post-Dame. There's absolutely zero guarantee the franchise gets a building piece in return for Dame if they are forced to move him somewhere.... one would hope they do, but it's not a given.

[Sinobas]

If we traded Simmons for CJ, he could start at the 3, and be like a point forward and set the rotation so he's playing PG when Lillard is out. We'd have the makings of a pretty good defense if we could also retain Powell.

His shooting is garbage, but we wouldn't really need him to put up many shots.

[GEE]

I wrote this pre-game 7. Leading up to the game, and as I watched, I wondered how the result of game 7 might affect the valuation of a potential CJ for Ben trade. Holy Crap! I could not have imagined a better outcome. Whoever watched the game last night must have seen what Simmons did well: Great defense on Young all game, dishing dimes(13), and rebounded well too(8), But... he again did not score much, but worth noting, didn't shoot much either.

All in all, not a great performance, agreed, but he didn't didn't lose the game for them IMO, and Shaq, Kenny and Barkley spent their whole first post-game segment totally smashing him. Called him "A liability". Ouch! Add the comments from Embid, Rivers, and likely most Philly fans, and that kid must already be on a plane back to Australia.

If I were Olshey, and I thought an All-Star player might be good value for CJ, I would be on the horn with Ben's agent hours ago. Some kind words for his player that is taking a media pounding would be smart. Next... I'd be doing the same with Philly's GM. CJ for Simmons STRAIGHT UP. I'll take this 12 to start with:

Dame(36) / Simons(12) / cj(0)
Powell(34) / Simons(6) / Jones Jr(8)
ROCO(24) / Jones Jr(4) / Little(10)
Simmons(32) / Collins(10) / ROCO(6) / Giles(0)
Nurkic(30) / Collins(18) / Kanter(0)

[Wickzki]

Re: Simmons

Those who want to know what happened behind the scenes and how it impacted his play may want to read this article posted in the Australian newspapers

https://www.news.com.au/sport/sports-life/nba-star-ben-simmons-family-denies-abuse-claims-made-by-sister-olivia/news-story/5d186d9306db184d3f5104cdd8167898

[kumquat]

Welcome aboard. I think a trade could be worked out here. I'd need to drop one of the 1st round picks though. Either that or drop RoCo and replace with DJJ.

I know Simmons has more 'star' calibre, but he's also a guy who is unplayable in certain parts of the game and is earning 33-40M for the rest of his contract.

For what it's worth, I think Philly and Milwaukee are the best destinations for CJ. Ironically though I'd be wanting to pair up Simmons and CJ as the backcourt if I were Philly - they'd be a perfect complement.

Tobias for CJ a year ago made perfect sense for both teams imo. However Tobias has had a good playoff run, and Seth has stepped up big time, so it may not be wanted from Philly's end anymore.

I've been watching Milwaukee's last few games. Khris Middleton is like a bigger version of CJ when it boils down to it.

[Dame Lizard]

Welcome aboard. I think a trade could be worked out here. I'd need to drop one of the 1st round picks though. Either that or drop RoCo and replace with DJJ.

I know Simmons has more 'star' calibre, but he's also a guy who is unplayable in certain parts of the game and is earning 33-40M for the rest of his contract.

For what it's worth, I think Philly and Milwaukee are the best destinations for CJ. Ironically though I'd be wanting to pair up Simmons and CJ as the backcourt if I were Philly - they'd be a perfect complement.

Tobias for CJ a year ago made perfect sense for both teams imo. However Tobias has had a good playoff run, and Seth has stepped up big time, so it may not be wanted from Philly's end anymore.

I've been watching Milwaukee's last few games. Khris Middleton is like a bigger version of CJ when it boils down to it.

I was hoping Middleton would have a bad playoffs so we could trade CJ for him. He's played well so far though, and the Bucks may win a championship. So that trade is out of the window now.

[Goldbum]

CJ+DJJ+ Collins + a pick... That's a solid offer. I would resign RHJ and Giles for the vet Minimum and Powell at Market Value.
Dame/Simons
Powell/Ant/Nassir
Roco/Nassir
Simons//Melo/RHJ
Nurkic/Giles/Simons