Nurk in full tampering mode…

[Case2012]

I'm leaning way more towards mathurin but if he's off the board I would definitely consider duren for potential.

Mathurin plays like prime oladipo but with size. He can shoot, and when he drives it in he tries to pack it more often than not. I like that...

[DusterBuster]

To be fair, I’m not now nor have I ever been a fan of getting Grant. I think he’s fools good putting up inflated numbers on a bbbbaaaadddd pistons squad. He’s almost guaranteed to not live up to his next overpaid contract.

That said, it also feels pointless to fight it at this point. There’s just waaaayyyyyy too many tea leaves to read at this point. It’s pretty clear the Blazers are determined to get him and Dame wants him. Just too many factors at play that want him on the team that at this point, I think the only way he isn’t in Portland this summer is if the Blazers lose out on the Pelicans pick. And even then… maybe they just give up their 2023 pick and it still gets done anyway…

[DusterBuster]

I honestly think a deal for Grant to Portland has already been completed verbally by both squads. I think Portland said to Detroit, “if we get the Pelicans pick, you can have that, otherwise we will trade you our 2023 pick.” That would explain why it didn’t happen at the deadline. Detroit just wants to see what pick they end up with… willing to wait for a chance at the Pels lotto pick if they can get it, but will roll the dice on Portland sucking next year if they have to.

[BlazersBroncos]

To be fair, I’m not now nor have I ever been a fan of getting Grant. I think he’s fools good putting up inflated numbers on a bbbbaaaadddd pistons squad. He’s almost guaranteed to not live up to his next overpaid contract.

That said, it also feels pointless to fight it at this point. There’s just waaaayyyyyy too many tea leaves to read at this point. It’s pretty clear the Blazers are determined to get him and Dame wants him. Just too many factors at play that want him on the team that at this point, I think the only way he isn’t in Portland this summer is if the Blazers lose out on the Pelicans pick. And even then… maybe they just give up their 2023 pick and it still gets done anyway…

I think there is a pretty clear attraction from Dame to Grant, like Dame he is a guy that is really invested in racial justice and even said he joined DET because of demographics and a black owner. I think Dame is almost certainly going to 'vibe' with him, and if we are looking to keep him happy while doing a retool burning the lower LP for Grant would go a long way IMO.

I think Grant has low tier #3 option talent, and when we realize that the Pascals, John Collins, etc are not available will become alot more palatable.

Bledsoe and a pick in the 10 range for Grant really isnt crazy at all. We simply dont have the assets + there isnt really any avaliability for a cut and dry clear cut #2 caliber option. Creating a team with a low tier #1, high tier #3 (Ant), 2 middle-to-low tier #3s (Nurk + Grant) and a high tier #4 (Hart) may be the best option avaliable. The best thing about Grant/Nurk/Hart is they play really unselfish ball and all can defend. Thats what you hope to put around a Dame / Ant duo IMO, assuming you cant pull a Pascal or Collins out of your butt (And IMO either cost both LP's, is that a better use of asset than Grant for the lower LP?).

[DusterBuster]

To be fair, I’m not now nor have I ever been a fan of getting Grant. I think he’s fools good putting up inflated numbers on a bbbbaaaadddd pistons squad. He’s almost guaranteed to not live up to his next overpaid contract.

That said, it also feels pointless to fight it at this point. There’s just waaaayyyyyy too many tea leaves to read at this point. It’s pretty clear the Blazers are determined to get him and Dame wants him. Just too many factors at play that want him on the team that at this point, I think the only way he isn’t in Portland this summer is if the Blazers lose out on the Pelicans pick. And even then… maybe they just give up their 2023 pick and it still gets done anyway…

I think there is a pretty clear attraction from Dame to Grant, like Dame he is a guy that is really invested in racial justice and even said he joined DET because of demographics and a black owner. I think Dame is almost certainly going to 'vibe' with him, and if we are looking to keep him happy while doing a retool burning the lower LP for Grant would go a long way IMO.

I think Grant has low tier #3 option talent, and when we realize that the Pascals, John Collins, etc are not available will become alot more palatable.

Bledsoe and a pick in the 10 range for Grant really isnt crazy at all. We simply dont have the assets + there isnt really any avaliability for a cut and dry clear cut #2 caliber option. Creating a team with a low tier #1, high tier #3 (Ant), 2 middle-to-low tier #3s (Nurk + Grant) and a high tier #4 (Hart) may be the best option avaliable. The best thing about Grant/Nurk/Hart is they play really unselfish ball and all can defend. Thats what you hope to put around a Dame / Ant duo IMO, assuming you cant pull a Pascal or Collins out of your butt (And IMO either cost both LP's, is that a better use of asset than Grant for the lower LP?).

Yeah, I think the Blazers hope is their own lottery pick this year becomes that clear cut #2 (or 1B) to Dame. If you hit a home run with the Blazers pick (who’s hopefully a big man), then roll the year back with Ant, Nurk, Grant, Hart, Winslow… it could be really good.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

I think Grant is a done deal as well. If the Pelicans make the playoffs then the 2025 Milwaukee pick for Grant would be a pretty good deal IMO but likely we are looking at giving up a late lottery pick. While potentially a good fit, especially if he jives with Dame, it is a slight overpay and hopefully we can get a little something back. But I don't see him on a significantly higher overall impact level than Powell.

Grant in a smaller offensive role would hopefully be more efficient and able to focus on defense like his younger but because of the reasons he went to Detroit (black city, coach, GM, bigger offensive role) I wonder if he would be happy in Portland which only checks one of those boxes, but maybe after getting a few years on a bad team where he wanted maybe he is open to relaxing some of those and winning again.

[BlazersBroncos]

I think Grant is a done deal as well. If the Pelicans make the playoffs then the 2025 Milwaukee pick for Grant would be a pretty good deal IMO but likely we are looking at giving up a late lottery pick. While potentially a good fit, especially if he jives with Dame, it is a slight overpay and hopefully we can get a little something back. But I don't see him on a significantly higher overall impact level than Powell.

Grant in a smaller offensive role would hopefully be more efficient and able to focus on defense like his younger but because of the reasons he went to Detroit (black city, coach, GM, bigger offensive role) I wonder if he would be happy in Portland which only checks one of those boxes, but maybe after getting a few years on a bad team where he wanted maybe he is open to relaxing some of those and winning again.

We dont trade for Grant if he isnt cool with only 1 box being checked, but I think 2 years in DET + playing with a like minded guy in Dame would more than alleviate any questions he has.

Getting the 2024 WAS SRP would make moving a LP for Grant a bit more easy to swallow, but I really wish they had their own SRP this year. Livers is interesting but I assume they would want to replace Grant w/ him. Stewart would be a bridge too far IMO.

[Wizenheimer]

just to clear up some misstatements in this thread: Grant is not on the last year of his contract. He still has next season before he becomes a FA. So if Portland did trade for him they'd at least have a trial season to see first hand Grant's true value...

...and it will already be a trial season seeing how the Dame/Ant back court works out, so Grant would be a good fit in adding his production into the equation

now, I don't see the rumored strong attraction Portland has for him. He's not an all-star level player. And for sure I would not trade a top-8 pick for him. But if the Blazers can get him for say an 11th pick + Bledsoe I'm just fine with that. I'm also thinking all the concern about him "about to be massively overpaid" may be really over-stated. If he's as bad as many of you are claiming, please name a team that would have 30M in cap-space in 2023 willing to spend it on Grant...?

I also question the narrative of "Grant wants to be a #1 option". That seems to imply he would accept no less. It could be that he'd be fine with being a 3rd option on a good team. And the thing is, when Grant has been a 3rd option he's been really good. In OKC and Denver he posted TrueShooting rates of close to 60% and those were good teams. On a bad team with him having high usage, his TS mark was around 55%.

what Grant does offer Portland is something they haven't had since the Batum/Mattews era: a 2-way wing. A SG-SF-PF that can play solidly on both ends of the floor

yeah, it would be better to add a John Collins or Pascal Siakam than Grant, but those options aren't available. And yeah, I could be trying to rationalize adding Grant in my own mind, but I do not believe that Grant would be the only move, obviously. Portland would still have their own draft pick (and for damn sure they need to do a better job of tanking with that schedule ahead), but I'm thinking that a starting unit of

Dame-Simons-(Keegan Murray/Benedict Mathurin/AJ Griffin)-Grant-Nurkic

offers Blazer fans a lot of reasons for optimism. Especially with a bench that would/could include Hart-Winslow-Watford-Eubanks-Williams-Johnson and possibly a tax-MLE player at 6M/year (a full-MLE would hard-cap Portland). And of course, If the Blazers did get Grant for Bledsoe, they'd still have those 3 TPE's heading into the trade deadline (21M; 6.6M; 3.3M); those might have great value

[BlazersBroncos]

just to clear up some misstatements in this thread: Grant is not on the last year of his contract. He still has next season before he becomes a FA. So if Portland did trade for him they'd at least have a trial season to see first hand Grant's true value...

...and it will already be a trial season seeing how the Dame/Ant back court works out, so Grant would be a good fit in adding his production into the equation

now, I don't see the rumored strong attraction Portland has for him. He's not an all-star level player. And for sure I would not trade a top-8 pick for him. But if the Blazers can get him for say an 11th pick + Bledsoe I'm just fine with that. I'm also thinking all the concern about him "about to be massively overpaid" may be really over-stated. If he's as bad as many of you are claiming, please name a team that would have 30M in cap-space in 2023 willing to spend it on Grant...?

I also question the narrative of "Grant wants to be a #1 option". That seems to imply he would accept no less. It could be that he'd be fine with being a 3rd option on a good team. And the thing is, when Grant has been a 3rd option he's been really good. In OKC and Denver he posted TrueShooting rates of close to 60% and those were good teams. On a bad team with him having high usage, his TS mark was around 55%.

what Grant does offer Portland is something they haven't had since the Batum/Mattews era: a 2-way wing. A SG-SF-PF that can play solidly on both ends of the floor

yeah, it would be better to add a John Collins or Pascal Siakam than Grant, but those options aren't available. And yeah, I could be trying to rationalize adding Grant in my own mind, but I do not believe that Grant would be the only move, obviously. Portland would still have their own draft pick (and for damn sure they need to do a better job of tanking with that schedule ahead), but I'm thinking that a starting unit of

Dame-Simons-(Keegan Murray/Benedict Mathurin/AJ Griffin)-Grant-Nurkic

offers Blazer fans a lot of reasons for optimism. Especially with a bench that would/could include Hart-Winslow-Watford-Eubanks-Williams-Johnson and possibly a tax-MLE player at 6M/year (a full-MLE would hard-cap Portland). And of course, If the Blazers did get Grant for Bledsoe, they'd still have those 3 TPE's heading into the trade deadline (21M; 6.6M; 3.3M); those might have great value

Couldnt have said it better myself.

[DusterBuster]

just to clear up some misstatements in this thread: Grant is not on the last year of his contract. He still has next season before he becomes a FA. So if Portland did trade for him they'd at least have a trial season to see first hand Grant's true value...

...and it will already be a trial season seeing how the Dame/Ant back court works out, so Grant would be a good fit in adding his production into the equation

now, I don't see the rumored strong attraction Portland has for him. He's not an all-star level player. And for sure I would not trade a top-8 pick for him. But if the Blazers can get him for say an 11th pick + Bledsoe I'm just fine with that. I'm also thinking all the concern about him "about to be massively overpaid" may be really over-stated. If he's as bad as many of you are claiming, please name a team that would have 30M in cap-space in 2023 willing to spend it on Grant...?

I also question the narrative of "Grant wants to be a #1 option". That seems to imply he would accept no less. It could be that he'd be fine with being a 3rd option on a good team. And the thing is, when Grant has been a 3rd option he's been really good. In OKC and Denver he posted TrueShooting rates of close to 60% and those were good teams. On a bad team with him having high usage, his TS mark was around 55%.

what Grant does offer Portland is something they haven't had since the Batum/Mattews era: a 2-way wing. A SG-SF-PF that can play solidly on both ends of the floor

yeah, it would be better to add a John Collins or Pascal Siakam than Grant, but those options aren't available. And yeah, I could be trying to rationalize adding Grant in my own mind, but I do not believe that Grant would be the only move, obviously. Portland would still have their own draft pick (and for damn sure they need to do a better job of tanking with that schedule ahead), but I'm thinking that a starting unit of

Dame-Simons-(Keegan Murray/Benedict Mathurin/AJ Griffin)-Grant-Nurkic

offers Blazer fans a lot of reasons for optimism. Especially with a bench that would/could include Hart-Winslow-Watford-Eubanks-Williams-Johnson and possibly a tax-MLE player at 6M/year (a full-MLE would hard-cap Portland). And of course, If the Blazers did get Grant for Bledsoe, they'd still have those 3 TPE's heading into the trade deadline (21M; 6.6M; 3.3M); those might have great value

I do wonder about Collins or Siakam's availability, particularly Collins. The Hawks have been pretty mediocre and it sounds like no one is super happy in that lockerroom - Collins in particular has apparently kinda made it known he's not been happy there. I wonder if he wouldn't shake free and if the Blazers pick misses out on the Top 4, should the Blazers consider moving their lottery pick (say it's in the 5-7 range) and a TPE for him, then the Blazers move the Pelicans pick and Bledsoe for Grant (after the draft so it's legal so the Blazers "technically" used their pick but picking for DET).

Dame/Williams
Simons/Hart
Grant/Winslow
Collins/Watford
Nurkic/Eubanks

Sprinkle in a MLE vet PF/C type... Pretty interesting roster...

[Case2012]

Watch on YouTube

Mathurin has that X factor and after Keegan, he’s next on my board.

Would rather roll with this. There’s no rule that says these guys can’t make huge impacts as rookies and even if the goal is to win now, Grant and Collins aren’t making us contenders next year. Then you have to overpay for grant or have him walk, and you lost a potential all star player down the road in Mathurin etc..

Dame/Williams
Simons/Hart
Mathurin/Winslow
Murray/Watford
Nurkic/Eubanks

If Dame is a Lifer, who’s to say we can’t win with some variation of that squad in 2-3 years? Murray, Mathurin and Simons all have all star potential IMO and if the goal is to put as much talent around Dame as possible then this seems like a more realistic path than actually being able to successfully trade for another star.

TLDR I’d rather draft 2 guys that have all star potential (and can contribute right away IMO) and have them for cheap than trade our chips in for a high level role player that thinks he’s an all star.

[Norm2953]

He'd have to play SF for Portland has invested big $$$ in Dame/Simons. He likely is the SG for either Dame or Simons.

[BlazersBroncos]

Portland isnt starting 2 rookies next year, in fact I doubt they start 1.

[Case2012]

Dame started as a rookie. So did Roy. Sure, we were lottery teams those years but we’ll have a healthy Dame and Nurkic. Everything should be on the table in training camp after rehauling the roster so drastically.

[Norm2953]

Starting as a rookie depends on whether its a position of real need for the team. B-Roy, LA and Dame
in the past had to play for the team had nobody else while guys like CJ could wait.

I'd argue Portland's biggest need is another big bodied player who defends, rebounds and protects the
basket, especially when Nurk is out. Unfortunately for Portland, their choice to be that player was
Zach Collins who we will see three times in the last 14 or so games.

[BlazersBroncos]

Starting as a rookie depends on whether its a position of real need for the team. B-Roy, LA and Dame
in the past had to play for the team had nobody else while guys like CJ could wait.

I'd argue Portland's biggest need is another big bodied player who defends, rebounds and protects the
basket, especially when Nurk is out. Unfortunately for Portland, their choice to be that player was
Zach Collins who we will see three times in the last 14 or so games.

Sounds like Duren.

I do wonder how much strength Mathurian can add. I think he has a better chance of moving from SG to SF than Murray has moving from PF to SF. I think Keegan is more position-locked than Mathurian, and think based on the types of guys Billups targets is more likely to be a target than Keegan but who knows. I just see Keegan as a Tobias type who people like to pretend can play SF but is a PF all day.

Its so hard to find that 6'8 SF these days - Kendall Brown maybe but he is about as raw as our Brown.

If Mathurian has a good + wingspan and can get to 215lbs, he could be a full time SF IMO.

I think realistically Duren + Mathurian would be my choice. Both can contribute off the bench right away but have nice upside. Let Duren develop as a 20mpg backup to Nurk for 3 years and give him a simply role (Rebound, defend, roll on picks), let Mathurian play the backup SG spot for a couple years. Target a guy like Randle or Hayward with the spare parts (Bledose, SRPs, etc) as a win-now move.

[Dame Lizard]

just to clear up some misstatements in this thread: Grant is not on the last year of his contract. He still has next season before he becomes a FA. So if Portland did trade for him they'd at least have a trial season to see first hand Grant's true value...

...and it will already be a trial season seeing how the Dame/Ant back court works out, so Grant would be a good fit in adding his production into the equation

now, I don't see the rumored strong attraction Portland has for him. He's not an all-star level player. And for sure I would not trade a top-8 pick for him. But if the Blazers can get him for say an 11th pick + Bledsoe I'm just fine with that. I'm also thinking all the concern about him "about to be massively overpaid" may be really over-stated. If he's as bad as many of you are claiming, please name a team that would have 30M in cap-space in 2023 willing to spend it on Grant...?

I also question the narrative of "Grant wants to be a #1 option". That seems to imply he would accept no less. It could be that he'd be fine with being a 3rd option on a good team. And the thing is, when Grant has been a 3rd option he's been really good. In OKC and Denver he posted TrueShooting rates of close to 60% and those were good teams. On a bad team with him having high usage, his TS mark was around 55%.

what Grant does offer Portland is something they haven't had since the Batum/Mattews era: a 2-way wing. A SG-SF-PF that can play solidly on both ends of the floor

yeah, it would be better to add a John Collins or Pascal Siakam than Grant, but those options aren't available. And yeah, I could be trying to rationalize adding Grant in my own mind, but I do not believe that Grant would be the only move, obviously. Portland would still have their own draft pick (and for damn sure they need to do a better job of tanking with that schedule ahead), but I'm thinking that a starting unit of

Dame-Simons-(Keegan Murray/Benedict Mathurin/AJ Griffin)-Grant-Nurkic

offers Blazer fans a lot of reasons for optimism. Especially with a bench that would/could include Hart-Winslow-Watford-Eubanks-Williams-Johnson and possibly a tax-MLE player at 6M/year (a full-MLE would hard-cap Portland). And of course, If the Blazers did get Grant for Bledsoe, they'd still have those 3 TPE's heading into the trade deadline (21M; 6.6M; 3.3M); those might have great value

Well said.

As someone who is absolutely against trading a potential #11 pick for Grant, you reasonably have me sold that it'd be ok.

[DusterBuster]

The more I think about it the more I believe a deal with Portland and Detroit is already practically completed. It was widely believed Portland was going to follow up the CJ trade by flipping some of those assets (the pick) for Grant. I think the only reason it didn’t happen is because of the protections on that Pelicans pick. The Pistons probably wanted to guarantee the pick will convey this summer and since Portland wasn’t in a hurry to get a player as good as Grant while they’re tanking, both sides likely have already agreed on the deal contingent on that Pelicans pick ending up with Portland this summer.

[Wizenheimer]

I do wonder about Collins or Siakam's availability, particularly Collins. The Hawks have been pretty mediocre and it sounds like no one is super happy in that lockerroom - Collins in particular has apparently kinda made it known he's not been happy there. I wonder if he wouldn't shake free and if the Blazers pick misses out on the Top 4, should the Blazers consider moving their lottery pick (say it's in the 5-7 range) and a TPE for him, then the Blazers move the Pelicans pick and Bledsoe for Grant (after the draft so it's legal so the Blazers "technically" used their pick but picking for DET).

Dame/Williams
Simons/Hart
Grant/Winslow
Collins/Watford
Nurkic/Eubanks

Sprinkle in a MLE vet PF/C type... Pretty interesting roster...

well, it would have to be the reverse. The 20.8M TPE for Grant and Bledsoe for Collins (TPE is sufficient for Collins). I don't think that would be enough for Collins, but maybe Atlanta just wants out of his contract. Blazers might have to add more. Probably Little. Of course, right after the draft Portland's 2028 first will be available...the ghost of the Nance trade last summer

[Norm2953]

I suspect everyone is correct in that Portland has a handshake deal for Grant involving the lower
of Portland's lottery picks + Bledsoe for Grant.

Presumably Portland would retain the better of the picks. That player is likely to be the BPA amongst
a group of players. Neither Grant or Murray is a pure PF that could swing over to center but perhaps
Portland might look to the free agent market to sign a better backup center.

Duren's skill set is likely the best long term fit given Portland's needs. The problem with Duren will be
he doesn't fit in Dame's time line for he might not be able to play any real minutes until 2024 for he
won't turn 19 until November. He's 18 months younger than Holmgren but is a physical specimen at
6-11 255 lbs