Win now trade idea thread (Build around Dame!!)

[red_power]

Hopefully the FO will use Anfernee as the main asset in a trade for a proven all star bigman or wingman. He simply doesn't fit well next to Dame, I'm afraid.
With having Josh Hart, who fits perfectly though, I can't see the blazers utilizing Simmons in a better way.

[JRoy]

I'll bite. How about 2 trades and a MLE signing.
Trade #1 Keon, Bucks 25, Bledsoe
4
Jerami Grant
Trade #2
TPE Picks 36 and 57
4
Harrison Barnes

MLE
Jalen Smith
Resign Ant and Nurk
Take BPA with lotto pick
Dame/Ant
Ant/Hart
Barnes/Little
Grant/Smith/Watford
Nurk/Smith/Eubanks
+
GB3/Lotto/Dunn
BWilliams/
IDK it's an interesting set of forwards to go with Nurk and the smalls

Is Barnes really only worth 2 seconds and a TPE? For that price I would have a hard time not taking him but why does SAC do that? That squad kind of reminds me of the 2015 warriors in some ways, but Ant isn’t the defender Klay is and Grant isn’t much of a playmaker.

I think Lavine (I will die on the “trade ant for Lavine plus our pick back hill”) could replicate a lot of Klay’s shooting, running off screens etc. Instead of trading for Grant, what If we traded the 6th pick, Bledsoe, and Winslow for Siakam? Winslow seems like a Masai type player and the 6th pick lines up with the core of their other younger players like OG, S Barnes, Vanvleet, and Trent. If they added Duren to that lineup they would be terrifying.

Dame = Steph
Lavine = Klay
H Barnes =… Barnes
Siakam = Draymond
Nurk = Bogut
Dunn = Livingston
Hart = Iggy
Love ( If he’s bought out)= Lee

There's no chance that the Raptors trade Siakam for #6.

If they would, however, I'd do it in an absolute heartbeat.

Not sure why TOR would do that, but assuming they did a Siakam trade would be terrific.

[Wizenheimer]

just a note: Simons will be BYC this off-season after signing a new deal. That will make trading him a lot more of a challenge. If his 1st year salary is 22M, Portland only gets an 11M trade credit. The team trading for Simons will assume the full 22M as a trade debit. At the very least you have to trade Simons with somebody like Bledsoe in order to build up the margins for a trade that meets CBA requirements. And the team receiving Simons in a S&T becomes hard-capped for the season

for instance, Simons signs for a 1st year salary of 22M. He's combined with Bledsoe's 19.4M contract. Portland is credited with sending out 30.4M in salary so they can take as much as 125% of that salary back;that's around 38M. The team receiving Bledsoe and Simons is taking on 41.4M in salary. They can take back an inverse minimum of 33.1M. Meaning the window of what Portland can get in the trade, salary-wise, falls between 33-38M. Not an impossible needle to thread, but not an easy one either
************************************************************************

I don't have any patience for those people saying Portland can't build a contender around Dame so the Blazers should just give up without even trying and trade Dame. That's complete nonsense. Olshey never tried to build around Dame. He only tried to build around Dame AND CJ. He welded CJ to Dame and that action foreclosed any chance of building a contender. I lived thru Bill Walton wanting out of Portland, then leaving Portland, then suing Portland. And with Clyde wanting out of Portland, then leaving Portland, then acting like his Portland career didn't happen. And with Aldridge leaving Portland. Dame has shown exemplary loyalty to the Portland, the team and the City. The Blazers owe Dame some honest attempts at building a contender around him

Dame's value to Portland is a hell of a lot bigger than just his generic trade value. The Blazers need to work on building that contender for a minimum of a couple of drafts, a couple of off-seasons, and a couple of trade deadlines. They have dismantled the imbalanced-dead-end-of-purgatory roster by trading away 4 players who were hogging half of the payroll but had combined talent that had Portland's trajectory flat-lined going nowhere. That's a good start and for the first time in 8 years they have some options that offer some optimism

it won't be easy obviously, but it's worth the effort. Besides all that, if the Blazers can't build a contender around Dame in the next 3-4 years, they sure as hell can't build a contender around Simons in the next 4-6 years

[BlazersBroncos]

Ya, the idea of signing and trading Simons is just not realistic.

[Dame Lizard]

just a note: Simons will be BYC this off-season after signing a new deal. That will make trading him a lot more of a challenge. If his 1st year salary is 22M, Portland only gets an 11M trade credit. The team trading for Simons will assume the full 22M as a trade debit. At the very least you have to trade Simons with somebody like Bledsoe in order to build up the margins for a trade that meets CBA requirements. And the team receiving Simons in a S&T becomes hard-capped for the season

for instance, Simons signs for a 1st year salary of 22M. He's combined with Bledsoe's 19.4M contract. Portland is credited with sending out 30.4M in salary so they can take as much as 125% of that salary back;that's around 38M. The team receiving Bledsoe and Simons is taking on 41.4M in salary. They can take back an inverse minimum of 33.1M. Meaning the window of what Portland can get in the trade, salary-wise, falls between 33-38M. Not an impossible needle to thread, but not an easy one either
************************************************************************

I don't have any patience for those people saying Portland can't build a contender around Dame so the Blazers should just give up without even trying and trade Dame. That's complete nonsense. Olshey never tried to build around Dame. He only tried to build around Dame AND CJ. He welded CJ to Dame and that action foreclosed any chance of building a contender. I lived thru Bill Walton wanting out of Portland, then leaving Portland, then suing Portland. And with Clyde wanting out of Portland, then leaving Portland, then acting like his Portland career didn't happen. And with Aldridge leaving Portland. Dame has shown exemplary loyalty to the Portland, the team and the City. The Blazers owe Dame some honest attempts at building a contender around him

Dame's value to Portland is a hell of a lot bigger than just his generic trade value. The Blazers need to work on building that contender for a minimum of a couple of drafts, a couple of off-seasons, and a couple of trade deadlines. They have dismantled the imbalanced-dead-end-of-purgatory roster by trading away 4 players who were hogging half of the payroll but had combined talent that had Portland's trajectory flat-lined going nowhere. That's a good start and for the first time in 8 years they have some options that offer some optimism

it won't be easy obviously, but it's worth the effort. Besides all that, if the Blazers can't build a contender around Dame in the next 3-4 years, they sure as hell can't build a contender around Simons in the next 4-6 years

I'm all fine with your notion that we should genuinely try to build a contender around Dame, however, Portland is simply not a free agent destination. It really hamstrings our ambitions in this regard.

Even if we did trade #6 for Grant (with some additional value coming back to Portland through maybe a future protected Detroit first), we'd probably be stuck with a core roster of, excluding Free Agents:

Dame /Anfernee
Anfernee / Hart
Little / Hart
Grant / Watford
Nurkic / Watford

That would require some excellent Free Agent signings to become a contender. Portland will really struggle to sign the players it needs to do so, thus I can see a situation where it's better for both Dame And Portland to trade him and rebuild.

If Dame wants to stay and roll the dice, I'll very happily keep him and see where we get to. What I don't want, however, is the Blazers hemorrhaging their stash of future draft picks, only to assemble a roster in the same calibre as this year's Utah or Dallas teams (I.e. still a good team but realistically not a genuine title threat).

[Case2012]

Ya, the idea of signing and trading Simons is just not realistic.

Why isn't it realistic? Expound? 90 percent of the posts on this website aren't realistic, but the website is called realgm and we come here to speculate and some cases even fantasize about certain scenarios. Anything is possible.

If there was an all star 4 that was a FA this off-season I would imagine the blazers go after him, but the closest option we have is Jeremy Grant. We can get him using the tpe or bledsoe.

If we want to trade for an all star level talent, Simons is our best chance at doing it in a sign and trade. Bird rights. Number of years. Raises. Etc. The current cba is written to discourage player movement and incentivize staying right? So matching salaries will be easiest in this situation. Levine is also the best FA available this summer IMO. His ties to the pnw give us a small advantage in signing him because he knows what it's like here. He's also a few hours from home/friend family etc. Who knows, that might sell him on it.

Levine is also better Simons right now and probably will be for a few more years. If the best chance at matching salaries is with a sign and trade I'm doing it with Simons rather than gutting what's left of the team to add him TO Simons.

We have some good role players, probably the best we've had in years. And we can add a few more with our picks and exceptions but we have a unique opportunity to land another star in a sign and trade and go over the cap to retain other players. We've done everything we could to stay out of the luxury for an opportunity like this, where we can go all in for a contender and not pay repeater tax.

Simons has some say in this as well obviously, but being handed your own team in a city like Chicago isn't the worst thing that could happen. They would have a nice core with Williams, White, Ball etc. It's a huge market and would great for his brand.

Including the Milwaukee pick for the rights to trade our pick is a no brainer. Having that lottery protection screws us in other trades and I have a feeling that had an impacts on our return on Norm, CJ, Nance, and Roco. This is the main reason I suggested trading down for the 13th and 15th.

We need additional assets to grab guys like Grant and Turner and unfortunately Cronin gave away 4 players and only got one future first for his efforts. If we can pull off a trade by combining picks and exceptions for Grant and Turner (or players of their production/salary) before FA, we can better pitch the idea of Portland contending to a Levine or Beal, etc. This is where the sign and trade idea comes in.

Bottom line, we suffered through years of an undersized backcourt already and I'm in no hurry to see it repeated until Dame retires or is traded.

[BlazersBroncos]

Its tremendously difficult to do a double S&T, which is what would have to happen in regards to Simons + for Zach. It is also a scenario where both Simons and Zach would more or less have to be willing to go to CHI and PDX respectively.

Its also difficult to see why CHI would want to downgrade to Simons when they are full blown win-now with DDR and Vuc.

[m0ng0]

I saw this on my feed today...interesting.

Washington Wizards Receive: G Eric Bledsoe, G Anfernee Simons (Sign & Trade), 2022 First-Round Pick (POR)
Portland Trail Blazers receive: G Bradley Beal

[Case2012]

Its tremendously difficult to do a double S&T, which is what would have to happen in regards to Simons + for Zach. It is also a scenario where both Simons and Zach would more or less have to be willing to go to CHI and PDX respectively.

Its also difficult to see why CHI would want to downgrade to Simons when they are full blown win-now with DDR and Vuc.

Chicago could lose Lavigne for nothing... Getting Simons ensures they get an all star caliber prospect in return. They could also compete with Simons/DDR/Vuc if they wanted, there's nothing stopping that. Vuc has one more year left on his deal and DDR is 33 so if they Don't win, this gives them flexibility to go with a younger core of Ball, Williams, White etc. If they decide to change direction. I swear I said this 3x already. I get there's a million what ifs involved but crazier things have happened and this would be my plan A off season move.

[Case2012]

I saw this on my feed today...interesting.

Washington Wizards Receive: G Eric Bledsoe, G Anfernee Simons (Sign & Trade), 2022 First-Round Pick (POR)
Portland Trail Blazers receive: G Bradley Beal

I don't think this trade is legal and it's a massive overpay for a player almost identical to Simons... Plus it couldn't happen until after the draft and there's no way I'm attaching the 6th pick to Simons unless it's bringing back a top 10 player.

[Norm2953]

I greatly prefer my original proposal to trade into the top 3 with Orlando, especially with Simons being
from Orlando. The one S/T with Simons that will work will be with Orlando for its a no brainer for both
Portland and Orlando.

I just don't think any successful Blazer off season succeeds with ending up without a top 3 pick. Team is
going to need that top 3 pick to be a large part of their team for the rest of this decade and any of
Holmgren, Smith or Banchero will do nicely. It's what the GSW did last year when they added future
pieces for the time when Steph, Klay and Dray will be done.

In the meantime, if the team can still get Grant without giving up that said high lottery pick, it would be
fine to do so. The problem is their best trade chip is now gone and they are left with fewer options to get
the task done. Let's not over value Grant for if he was an elite player, they'd simply pay him, for he's
happy in Detroit.

[BlazersBroncos]

Its tremendously difficult to do a double S&T, which is what would have to happen in regards to Simons + for Zach. It is also a scenario where both Simons and Zach would more or less have to be willing to go to CHI and PDX respectively.

Its also difficult to see why CHI would want to downgrade to Simons when they are full blown win-now with DDR and Vuc.

Chicago could lose Lavigne for nothing... Getting Simons ensures they get an all star caliber prospect in return. They could also compete with Simons/DDR/Vuc if they wanted, there's nothing stopping that. Vuc has one more year left on his deal and DDR is 33 so if they Don't win, this gives them flexibility to go with a younger core of Ball, Williams, White etc. If they decide to change direction. I swear I said this 3x already. I get there's a million what ifs involved but crazier things have happened and this would be my plan A off season move.

The only teams with significant cap space this summer are ORL, IND, DET and SAS. Even those teams would need to make moves to get enough space to sign Zach to a MAX deal. And every team above would be way worse than CHI even with Zach. The Bulls can also offer Zach more money than any of the above teams.

So realistically for Zach to leave Chicago he would have to both A) be willing to take less money and B) Be willing to take less money to play for a worse team.

It really doesnt make sense for Zach. Stars get their money and demand a trade later, its the new way.

Chicago is a pretender but they will run it back IMO. No reason not to.

[Case2012]

I greatly prefer my original proposal to trade into the top 3 with Orlando, especially with Simons being
from Orlando. The one S/T with Simons that will work will be with Orlando for its a no brainer for both
Portland and Orlando.

I just don't think any successful Blazer off season succeeds with ending up without a top 3 pick. Team is
going to need that top 3 pick to be a large part of their team for the rest of this decade and any of
Holmgren, Smith or Banchero will do nicely. It's what the GSW did last year when they added future
pieces for the time when Steph, Klay and Dray will be done.

In the meantime, if the team can still get Grant without giving up that said high lottery pick, it would be
fine to do so. The problem is their best trade chip is now gone and they are left with fewer options to get
the task done. Let's not over value Grant for if he was an elite player, they'd simply pay him, for he's
happy in Detroit.

I see your points completely. Had the blazers retained the 11th pick I probably would've drafted bpa and added them to Dame, Ant, Hart and nurkic.

Where I differ from you is your valuation on the top 3 players in the draft. I just don't think they're that good. I'm not sold on chet, Paulo reminds me of a Derrick Williams, Michael Beasley, Jabari Parker type and Smith, while being a sniper, doesn't have a great handle his shot creation is very limited. So trading our best young prospect get to into the top 3 to get a player that might be as good as ant is now (from a different position ideally) doesn't seem like a good idea right now, especially when Ant can be used to get a win now player.

[Case2012]

Its tremendously difficult to do a double S&T, which is what would have to happen in regards to Simons + for Zach. It is also a scenario where both Simons and Zach would more or less have to be willing to go to CHI and PDX respectively.

Its also difficult to see why CHI would want to downgrade to Simons when they are full blown win-now with DDR and Vuc.

Chicago could lose Lavigne for nothing... Getting Simons ensures they get an all star caliber prospect in return. They could also compete with Simons/DDR/Vuc if they wanted, there's nothing stopping that. Vuc has one more year left on his deal and DDR is 33 so if they Don't win, this gives them flexibility to go with a younger core of Ball, Williams, White etc. If they decide to change direction. I swear I said this 3x already. I get there's a million what ifs involved but crazier things have happened and this would be my plan A off season move.

The only teams with significant cap space this summer are ORL, IND, DET and SAS. Even those teams would need to make moves to get enough space to sign Zach to a MAX deal. And every team above would be way worse than CHI even with Zach. The Bulls can also offer Zach more money than any of the above teams.

So realistically for Zach to leave Chicago he would have to both A) be willing to take less money and B) Be willing to take less money to play for a worse team.

It really doesnt make sense for Zach. Stars get their money and demand a trade later, its the new way.

Chicago is a pretender but they will run it back IMO. No reason not to.

I see your points, but you're forgetting mine. Option C. Sign and trade to Portland for Ant. Lavine gets his 5 years, gets his raises etc. and losses nothing. Chicago has no choice but to agree if Zach says he's leaving. They are compensated with an all star caliber prospect in return.

Add Lavine to Dame, nurk, Hart, Winslow, and Nas and that's better than the other teams you listed. That's before any other moves are made with picks, exceptions, etc. Grant seems like a sure thing, so add him to that core if you want.

What this debate really comes down to is whether or not you think Lavine would play for Portland. I get it, we're not a free agent destination so it seems unlikely, but like I said several times already. If you're from Seattle playing in Portland is the next best thing and you're only a 3 hour drive from home. He can get paid the max in a sign and trade and he'd get to play with a superstar in Dame.

I think it's possible.

[Norm2953]

I greatly prefer my original proposal to trade into the top 3 with Orlando, especially with Simons being
from Orlando. The one S/T with Simons that will work will be with Orlando for its a no brainer for both
Portland and Orlando.

I just don't think any successful Blazer off season succeeds with ending up without a top 3 pick. Team is
going to need that top 3 pick to be a large part of their team for the rest of this decade and any of
Holmgren, Smith or Banchero will do nicely. It's what the GSW did last year when they added future
pieces for the time when Steph, Klay and Dray will be done.

In the meantime, if the team can still get Grant without giving up that said high lottery pick, it would be
fine to do so. The problem is their best trade chip is now gone and they are left with fewer options to get
the task done. Let's not over value Grant for if he was an elite player, they'd simply pay him, for he's
happy in Detroit.

I see your points completely. Had the blazers retained the 11th pick I probably would've drafted bpa and added them to Dame, Ant, Hart and nurkic.

Where I differ from you is your valuation on the top 3 players in the draft. I just don't think they're that good. I'm not sold on chet, Paulo reminds me of a Derrick Williams, Michael Beasley, Jabari Parker type and Smith, while being a sniper, doesn't have a great handle his shot creation is very limited. So trading our best young prospect get to into the top 3 to get a player that might be as good as ant is now (from a different position ideally) doesn't seem like a good idea right now, especially when Ant can be used to get a win now player.

Of course this will all depend on what Portland sees in the draft combine and the individual workout at the practice
facility. It could very well be those three 19 year old bigs aren't that good (yet).

I do think Chet will eventually be a solid player but in year 1, he will be brutalized trying to matchup with an NBA
PF/C. Where we differ is that win now player just isn't that good for if he was that good, Detroit would simply extend
him to the $112 Million contract that he wants. Paying Dame his extension along with Grant would Portland back into
the financial tightrope they were in before for a team that still can't win a championship.

Given the choices, adding the top 3 big gives Portland a cost controlled player for at least five years who
could develop into the player Zach Collins was supposed to be.

Now if Portland does neither the trade for a top 3 pick, get lucky in the lottery or trade for Grant, It becomes
more interesting. Jalen Duren is going to be a solid player (eventually) but it might be 2024 before he will be
ready to play for he will be 19 for all of the 2022-23 season. Doesn't do anything for a Dame centered time line
as with the rest of the 2022 draft class.

[Case2012]

If we don't trade the pick, I'm taking Murray or Mathurin. Murray imo is the best scorer in the draft and he plays both ways and doesn't need the ball. He'd be perfect next to Dame. He reminds me of a cross between Kuzma+ and Harris. Second choice would be Mathurin. He's got the motor to be a lock down defender, he can create his own shot, has elite burst, hops and tries to dunk it more often than not. Taller Oladipo.

If we hadn't lost the pick I would've taken those guys and developed them with Dame and never thought of Grant again.

Tbh, I prefer where we are now because I think Murray is a sure thing and the high risk/ reward of the other bigs scares me too much.

I might just take Murray and call it a day and forget about Grant.
I would still look for sign and trade options for Ant though, with Lavine obviously being my first choice, but I would look at Beal and even fat harden if it came down to it.

Lastly, there's nothing that says we have to extend Dame or give Grant that 112 million. Just because they're eligible for those extensions doesn't mean they're going to get them. Dame has 3 years left int his deal and needs to demonstrate he's still the all NBA player he was before his injury. After that, then we can discuss an extension.

[Norm2953]

Portland perhaps would also pick Murray for he's also a more immediate play type of player but the
problem is Indiana at 5 also likes Murray.

It'll be interesting how Portland's draft board will look after the combine and workouts. Twenty years ago,
players like Duren, Wallace and Kessler would be solid lottery picks for they are the more traditional
center. Those guys are getting downgraded for they can't space the floor but all three guys can
protect the cup and are solid rebounders. I grew up watching the Blazers being short handed at center
from the Walton days to Bowie, Oden and now Nurk. No matter how hard Dame plays, the team can't
win if they don't have the horses to compete up front and under the basket in the playoffs.

[Case2012]

Eubanks looked like a steal and I would definitely re-sign him for a minimum. I really like Orlando Robinson in the second. He looks like an elite pf/center only without the athleticism of modern centers. He only played against mid major competition so he's ranked low but I think he'd be a steal.

[Wizenheimer]

to me, the best option now that the Blazers got screwed out of the 11th pick by Covid is...

hope for lottery luck, both in the lottery itself and in picking the right player

if Detroit would accept the Milwaukee pick and trade Grant for the Portland's big TPE, do that. But if not, then use the pick on a forward and give Dame, Billups, and the new roster a year to see if it gels and shows good upside. And approaching next year's trade deadline Portland 21M and 6.5M TPE's might have great value. Then, in the summer of 2023 Simons will no longer be BYC and all options can be open without structural obstacles

the first step was dismantling that dead-end roster. The 2nd step is some patience

[BlazersBroncos]

Aiming a bit lower:

Bledsoe + Winslow + 37 for Hayward (CHA makes room for the Miles MAX deal)
Sign Kyle Anderson to MLE
Pray to the draft gods