Ayton, Grant, and Simons for anything?

[BlazersBroncos]

2 FRP for Grant and Smart and a FRP for Ayton is quite optimistic.

I dont see any market for Ayton or Simons - maybe CHI swaps Vuc for Ayton if they keep playing above their expectation - and ideally we snag the FRP we owe them back. But if Vuc is hitting the 3 he may be more valuable than Ayton even despite the age variance, and so far this year he is hitting it.

I think Grant could pull a FRP and filler contracts. Think MT and RWIII could return some filler and some SRPs.

Something has to give soon though - once MT and RWIII are back you can definatley expect the kids to see less PT. That cant happen.

[Wizenheimer]

I'm still bullish the Blazers can get both FRPs from the Lakers for Grant - particularly if he keeps up his playing level for a month and show it's not a flash. Lakers are showing out to start, they ware going to want to maximize LBJ's final year or two here and Grant is a flawless fit for them and an upgrade over Rui.

Rui, Russell, 2 FRPs for Grant and Banton. Or if they want to keep Rui (who's admittedly having a good start to his year), it could be Russell, Vanderbilt and picks for Grant alone... they may want to include Vando because of his contract length and Grant's contract length matching up. Getting back to the question at hand though, push comes to shove, I would be fine with even just one of two FRPs and either collection of players from the Lakers side...

Honestly, I just don't see it.

If the Fakers are doing well with Rui, I doubt they are going to feel Grant is enough of an upgrade at his contract to pull that move for 2 FRP. I actually feel the opposite, that if they play worse they may be more inclined to make a desperation move based on a Lebron request...

Also, with how well Rui has been playing I don't think Rui/Russell/2 FRPs > Grant/Banton. IMO, Rui/Russell/1 FRP > Grant/Banton, all things considered.

Why I'm more bullish on this than most is I think there's a decent amount of behind the scenes agent pressure for both organizations that could push this over the top.

sorry DB...I just can't see it

the reason being that in order for the Blazers to get two 1st's from the Lakers, both would have to be unprotected (2029, 2031). I can't believe the Lakers would give up one unprotected 1st for Grant, let alone two

[BlazersBroncos]

LAL is also playing very well. I could still see them making a move for Grant to push them over the edge but I dont think they put Rui in the deal - think it would have to be Vincent and Vando. And dont see more than a single LP FRP.

I would still do it that being said. I want Toumari and Deni as the starting F ASAP.

[dckingsfan]

Why I'm more bullish on this than most is I think there's a decent amount of behind the scenes agent pressure for both organizations that could push this over the top.

Then maybe more of a blockbuster? Maybe where Vincent and Simons are included? They can't make a trade where they have no PG?

[Walton1one]

I am wanting to ask: would you dump these guys for equivalent salary and no draft picks in return? Worse contracts attached to second round picks? Other veterans who might fit a little better? How badly do you want them off the team?
Here is the problem with this question, we really don't know what Grant\Ant (in particular) Ayton\Thybulle\Williams trade value is? All we can go by are rumors really:

Grant - The strongest rumor was that POR wanted (2) 1st round picks. Now maybe this is posturing by Cronin, but other teams (WAS|BRK) were also dangling their "available" players (Kuzma\Johnson) for a similar price. Will that likely change come the trade deadline? I would guess it would. I have never agreed with the (2) 1st's for Grant anyway, since the "devil is in the details". Let's use the LAL as an example, what is better (2) lottery protected 1st rounders (which become 2nd's if they don't convey) or (1) unprotected or lightly protected (1-4) 1st? IMO the 2nd option by far, not all 1st's are equal. Now maybe Cronin thinks he can get more by waiting, hoping on desperation and if not he could still get (1) 1st, but he could also miscalculate and end up the GM w\o a chair after the trade deadline. He best not overplay his hand

SImons - Went from not even an option in trade talks, to it would have to be something exceptional (multiple 1st's + young player), which is laughable IMO. If that is the ask, then yeah Cronin is delusional. Could he get a 1st and an expiring\1yr contract back? I would think so. Simons' contract is not a detriment here, neutral at worst\decent at best, (2) years left, $25mil is not way out of line to other recent signings (KCP\Monk) and he is still young (25) and the "exposure" contract wise is negligible IMO. This could be a wait and see what teams are struggling or doing better than expected and then make a deal. I can't see Cronin holding onto him, as eventually he will have to be dealt IMO. I maintain that he does not want to continue to stay here, nor is he worth the money needed for POR to retain him to stay.

So would I trade them for nothing but salary ballast and nothing of value (picks and\or young players) back? NO

But I strongly disagree that is all they are worth. This board (Trade board) is very pessimistic when it comes to value, and more often than not when players do get traded for, they get more than what the "consensus" thinks they should, so I don't buy low on the value attributed to most of our players from the keyboard GM crowd (myself as a member).

Given these valuations, or you own, what would you be willing to accept to see these three gone? Forget first round picks because it's not happening.

Yeah, I just completely disagree with this premise, that is not the reality of their value IMO. If they are eventually traded before\at the trade deadline (or even later heaven forbid) we will all be able to look back and dissect the details.

Ayton is fine to keep. No need to trade him. Yes, he's overpaid... but its fine to keep him until someone (Clingan) wins the starting job. I actually would consider re-signing him after his contract expires for ~$14-16M per season.

I agree, Clingan, as great as he has been this early, is not ready for full time minutes and out of the (3) (Ant\Grant\Ayton), Ayton IMO likely has the least value. Now maybe a team desperate enough for some center help (NO) makes a compelling enough offer, if that happens great, trade him, otherwise keep him and platoon him with Clingan. What is a compelling offer? A protected 1st or some sort of draft compensation and\or a young player.

As Shem said, if you ever want to have a prayer of moving these guys you need to play them and feature them. The early part of the season that is the focus, it is in getting them to a point we can most easily move them. Young players getting handed the reigns and given bigger roles is the focus of that later part of the season but we gotta put one foot in front of the other to get there.

I keep reciting this to myself while watching Ant\Grant in particular hoist up a ridiculous amount of shots with high usage. While I agree with Wiz, that teams already know what these players can bring to the table, having them at the forefront, playing maybe? can have some effect? I am guessing this is Cronin's view, IF he does in fact trade them, which I remain unconvinced he will do. I will say that these first 3 games it sure looks like they are feeding Grant\Simons the ball more than usual, but is this just Chauncey or some larger strategy by Cronin?

Portland can just allow Simons and Ayton to walk away in two years. Perhaps the closer they are to the end of their contracts, they might get something of worth.

No they cannot, historically cap space is close to worthless for POR, now maybe they could use it to take on bad contracts for some value, but so far, that value (while still worth doing) has been pretty marginal, so if you have some space, yeah use it to gain some minor draft capital, but as part of your core strategy, that is a bad idea. They CANNOT afford to let them walk for nothing. POR is not a big market, they need to squeeze the juice out of every players' value.

I'm still bullish the Blazers can get both FRPs from the Lakers for Grant - particularly if he keeps up his playing level for a month and show it's not a flash. Lakers are showing out to start, they ware going to want to maximize LBJ's final year or two here and Grant is a flawless fit for them and an upgrade over Rui.

I agree with the premise of LAL being bullish with their start (provided it continues). A deal can be had, but for (1) 1st round pick (unprotected or lightly protected as possible). Another dark horse for Grant? MIL, especially if Middleton is slow to recover or comes back and continues his downward slide (and MIL continues to struggle).

For Simons... it's not a question of talent but just... but where's the fit?

Let's keep monitoring ORL, that team, even with KCP still has major shooting\bench issues IMO. This may be a deal where ORL thought they had addressed an issue, but they may not be happy with the results (not with KCP, but with shooting\bench) and the pieces to a deal (Anthony + change) are still there. DET is another one to watch.

[Wizenheimer]

LAL is also playing very well. I could still see them making a move for Grant to push them over the edge but I dont think they put Rui in the deal - think it would have to be Vincent and Vando. And dont see more than a single LP FRP.

I would still do it that being said. I want Toumari and Deni as the starting F ASAP.

this right here demonstrates why Grant to the Lakers seems next to impossible

Rui and Russell are playing too well....and played too well last season too...to be moved for Grant while including a 1st. Lakers would not do that IMO

Lakers are only 40K below the 2nd apron so they have to send out more salary than they take back otherwise they can't aggregate contracts. Vincent + Vandy = 21.7M....Grant = 29.8M. That's more than 8M away from working. Russell + Vanderbilt = 29.4M; that doesn't work

a 3 for 1 trade using some near minimum salaries might get it done, from Portland's POV. But the Blazers have 15 players under contract so they'd have to waive 2 to make the trade. Further, the Lakers only have 14 players under contract so a 3 for 1 puts them one under the minimum and then signing a minimum salary player puts them over the 2nd apron

all that's not to say a 3rd team can't be involved but the Laker 2nd apron problem is a major obstacle and their available draft picks are too risky to trade without major protections

personally, I'd much rather Simons and Ayton were moved before Grant; but Grant just doesn't fit any logical Blazer timeline

[DusterBuster]

Honestly, I just don't see it.

If the Fakers are doing well with Rui, I doubt they are going to feel Grant is enough of an upgrade at his contract to pull that move for 2 FRP. I actually feel the opposite, that if they play worse they may be more inclined to make a desperation move based on a Lebron request...

Also, with how well Rui has been playing I don't think Rui/Russell/2 FRPs > Grant/Banton. IMO, Rui/Russell/1 FRP > Grant/Banton, all things considered.

Why I'm more bullish on this than most is I think there's a decent amount of behind the scenes agent pressure for both organizations that could push this over the top.

sorry DB...I just can't see it

the reason being that in order for the Blazers to get two 1st's from the Lakers, both would have to be unprotected (2029, 2031). I can't believe the Lakers would give up one unprotected 1st for Grant, let alone two

That’s fine, we’re all just guessing here. Saying two is too rich, but I believe you’re overly pessimistic saying they can’t get even one.

Historically, agents have way more pull than we admit on RGM. If they start slipping after a hot start and need more juice to help LBJ… and if LBJ tells his agent he wants it… things can move fast.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

I think those picks could still be protected... we would just end up with nothing if they didn't convey that year. We couldn't roll over protections to the next year or anything beyond 2031.

[Norm2953]

The overall negative vibes on this board can a bit much to stomach but I think Duster is correct
that agents have far too much say on what gets done.

Arguing over a 2031 FRP seems absurd for what does Lebron care about a FRP that is 6-7 years away
for he'll be long retired and they are still the Lakers, able to get the next free agent superstar to
sign with them. Make it a lightly protected pick (top 3) if it needs to be.

[Wizenheimer]

Why I'm more bullish on this than most is I think there's a decent amount of behind the scenes agent pressure for both organizations that could push this over the top.

sorry DB...I just can't see it

the reason being that in order for the Blazers to get two 1st's from the Lakers, both would have to be unprotected (2029, 2031). I can't believe the Lakers would give up one unprotected 1st for Grant, let alone two

That’s fine, we’re all just guessing here. Saying two is too rich, but I believe you’re overly pessimistic saying they can’t get even one.

I'm not saying they can't get one first for Grant; just saying it won't be an unprotected 1st

[BlazersBroncos]

FWIW - I have always been hoping Simons to ORL would work but if this version of Suggs is real I doubt they have much interest.

If Jalen is a 17ppg guy this year, with Franz and Paolo demanding 15+ shots I dont see them wanting to make a move for another guy that will need 15+ shots. Which sucks.

[zzaj]

Trade talk re: anyone right now is all speculative...this is the exact time of year where teams are figuring out what they have, not trying to move players.

That being said, and all things considered (contracts/health), I see no realistic suitors for Ant, Ayton, Grant, Matisse, or Timelord. We should get used to the idea that they are going to be on the team for a while.

As for the Lakers talk? I'd trade Rui for Grant straight up if it were possible, and I feel like most would...so any value plus Rui for Grant seems like a complete non-starter. Grant really should be making the money that Rui is making as a probably the 3rd or 4th best player on a good team. That plus contract years is going to make trading Grant a tough needle to thread...

[DeBlazerRiddem]

Players who put up stats like Grant get paid more than 17 million these days. If Rui keeps it up he also is going to get significantly more than 17 million. The MLE is up to almost 13 million these days.

[DusterBuster]

sorry DB...I just can't see it

the reason being that in order for the Blazers to get two 1st's from the Lakers, both would have to be unprotected (2029, 2031). I can't believe the Lakers would give up one unprotected 1st for Grant, let alone two

That’s fine, we’re all just guessing here. Saying two is too rich, but I believe you’re overly pessimistic saying they can’t get even one.

I'm not saying they can't get one first for Grant; just saying it won't be an unprotected 1st

I'm not saying I would expect a unprotected first for JG, I'm saying if LBJ and Klutch put the pressure on the Lakers get Grant to LA, I can see them caving on that.

Just talking open-market value, I agree an unprotected 1st is likely out of the question. I just think there's more politics at play in LA that can grease the wheels than normal situations where it's more than just one GM negotiating with another.

[DusterBuster]

Trade talk re: anyone right now is all speculative...this is the exact time of year where teams are figuring out what they have, not trying to move players.

That being said, and all things considered (contracts/health), I see no realistic suitors for Ant, Ayton, Grant, Matisse, or Timelord. We should get used to the idea that they are going to be on the team for a while.

As for the Lakers talk? I'd trade Rui for Grant straight up if it were possible, and I feel like most would...so any value plus Rui for Grant seems like a complete non-starter. Grant really should be making the money that Rui is making as a probably the 3rd or 4th best player on a good team. That plus contract years is going to make trading Grant a tough needle to thread...

I think that's a bridge to far myself, there are suitors out there for all 4 guys... the question isn't suitors, it's motivation from those suitors.

Ant still makes sense for a team like Dallas, GS or Orlando. Orlando in particular if they're just looking to speed up their development and can get him on the cheap, if they're tracking for .500 wins, they may want to see if they can add a 6th man like Ant off the bench to push that higher and get into the top end of the EC.

Multiple teams need bigmen help, thinking specifically of the Grizzlies and Pelicans, so Ayton will be movable if the numbers can work (probably a bigger sticking point for him than play/talent) and Timelord as well if he can stay health (massive questionmark). The Grizzlies should be a major "set alert" watch team. If they're like running slightly below .500 but in the playoff hunt, I think they're a real suitor for Ayton. The Edey experiment looks like a failure out of the gate, maybe that changes, but as of now, they need bigman help desperate if they still want to be a playoff team.

Matisse is a value contract defensive player in the mold of a Jae Crowder, he'll have plenty of suitors come the deadline. He's probably my most likely to be moved (I'll rank later) because of his contract and that he's a plug-and-play guy for contenders. I would be going all in that he ends up in Dallas before the season ends. Whenever a team signs a guy to a RFA, that's usually more of a sign of intent+interest for a player than them actually thinking they have to shot to sign him.

I would rank the players most to least likely to be moved in this order...

Thybulle
Grant
Ayton
Simons
Williams

Matisse just has the feeling of a player who's a lock to be traded, just like Josh Hart was a couple seasons ago. I don't believe there's any universe where he is still on the roster past the deadline.

I have Williams listed last, but that's wholly because of injuries. If he somehow can stay moderately healthy, I move him into 1B with Matisse 1A. Could even seen both going out in a package deal for a team looking to shore up defense for the playoffs. If he has a typical injury riddled season, they only way he gets moved is in some sort of salary dump move where Portland gets assets for taking on salary - outside of that, he stays on the team and they just let his contract expire.

The middle crew of JG, AG, and AS are all dependent on market. Grant is the most versatile and highly sought after player archetype of the group and already has suitors we know about (Lakers and Dallas), so imo, his being moved will wholly dependant on the value Cronin is willing to accept back.

Ayton and Simons will have the most limited suitors of the group, but they are there. I give Ayton the slight edge over Simons as I think there are more clear suitors for him given his size and skillset than there is for Ant.

[zzaj]

Trade talk re: anyone right now is all speculative...this is the exact time of year where teams are figuring out what they have, not trying to move players.

That being said, and all things considered (contracts/health), I see no realistic suitors for Ant, Ayton, Grant, Matisse, or Timelord. We should get used to the idea that they are going to be on the team for a while.

As for the Lakers talk? I'd trade Rui for Grant straight up if it were possible, and I feel like most would...so any value plus Rui for Grant seems like a complete non-starter. Grant really should be making the money that Rui is making as a probably the 3rd or 4th best player on a good team. That plus contract years is going to make trading Grant a tough needle to thread...

I think that's a bridge to far myself, there are suitors out there for all 4 guys... the question isn't suitors, it's motivation from those suitors.

Ant still makes sense for a team like Dallas, GS or Orlando. Orlando in particular if they're just looking to speed up their development and can get him on the cheap, if they're tracking for .500 wins, they may want to see if they can add a 6th man like Ant off the bench to push that higher and get into the top end of the EC.

Multiple teams need bigmen help, thinking specifically of the Grizzlies and Pelicans, so Ayton will be movable if the numbers can work (probably a bigger sticking point for him than play/talent) and Timelord as well if he can stay health (massive questionmark). The Grizzlies should be a major "set alert" watch team. If they're like running slightly below .500 but in the playoff hunt, I think they're a real suitor for Ayton. The Edey experiment looks like a failure out of the gate, maybe that changes, but as of now, they need bigman help desperate if they still want to be a playoff team.

Matisse is a value contract defensive player in the mold of a Jae Crowder, he'll have plenty of suitors come the deadline. He's probably my most likely to be moved (I'll rank later) because of his contract and that he's a plug-and-play guy for contenders. I would be going all in that he ends up in Dallas before the season ends. Whenever a team signs a guy to a RFA, that's usually more of a sign of intent+interest for a player than them actually thinking they have to shot to sign him.

I would rank the players most to least likely to be moved in this order...

Thybulle
Grant
Ayton
Simons
Williams

Matisse just has the feeling of a player who's a lock to be traded, just like Josh Hart was a couple seasons ago. I don't believe there's any universe where he is still on the roster past the deadline.

I have Williams listed last, but that's wholly because of injuries. If he somehow can stay moderately healthy, I move him into 1B with Matisse 1A. Could even seen both going out in a package deal for a team looking to shore up defense for the playoffs. If he has a typical injury riddled season, they only way he gets moved is in some sort of salary dump move where Portland gets assets for taking on salary - outside of that, he stays on the team and they just let his contract expire.

The middle crew of JG, AG, and AS are all dependent on market. Grant is the most versatile and highly sought after player archetype of the group and already has suitors we know about (Lakers and Dallas), so imo, his being moved will wholly dependant on the value Cronin is willing to accept back.

Ayton and Simons will have the most limited suitors of the group, but they are there. I give Ayton the slight edge over Simons as I think there are more clear suitors for him given his size and skillset than there is for Ant.

Duster you may have missed my partial point of the post...those players aren't going to be traded until the deadline at a minimum. You mention Simons as a 6th man, and Ayton to a team that needs bigman help if the numbers can work--this is why I mention contracts.

No team is going to trade for Simons as a 6th man. He's not paid like one, and with the CBA what it is, good teams can't pay a 6th man starter money. Not Orlando, not Dallas, not Golden State.

There are teams that could use a starting Center, sure...but at 34M/year for the next two years, a team either has to be committed to him long-term as a starter (...remember, he has to be resigned. Is he going to resign for less money as a 28 year old? Whatever he resigns for it's going to be "starter" money). Let's not forget that Ayton has yet to show he can be a good player on a consistently winning basketball team. Ayton sometimes gets compared to another "empty stats" player in Whiteside--Whiteside had at least 3 seasons of helping Miami to a winning record, if memory serves...

Thybulle...sure he can be traded. But I'm not sure many teams will value him over a second round pick at this point. His defense has fallen off pretty hard from his younger years, and he's never actually been that great of an on-ball defender...he's better as a help, disruptor type. He shoots below league average from 2pt and 3pt and is now 27 years old, with stats trending the wrong way. If the roles were reversed, I'd rather my team took a chance on a rookie second rounder being able to fill the same role as Thybulle, while also having upside.

RWIII...IMHO, has the best chance of being traded for two reasons. 1) If he shows any kind of health then he deserves minutes, and it seems like the Blazers have their rotation of Ayton/Clingan, with an eye for Clingan lon-term. 2) I think there is a team that would be willing to give up a 2nd rounder for what he brings to a team, healthy or not, with a 12M cap hit for 1 year.

[BlazersBroncos]

I could see NO as interested in Ayton and DET taking a swing on Simons. But I dont think we get much value for either. I would say something like -

PDX OUT - Ayton
PDX IN - Simmons, 2 SRP

NO OUT - BI
NO IN - Ayton, Lowest BRK 25 FRP

BRK OUT - Simmons, Lowest BRK 25 FRP, 2 SRP
BRK IN - BI

I would cut Simmons - we shave a year of Ayton, get a few SRP and open the C spot for Clingan and RWIII.

Then Simons to DET for THJ + Sasser + 2-3 SRP.

We shave a year of Simons, get a nice backup PG locked in for 3 years, snag a few more SRP and a shooter like THJ would be nice for youngster development even if he doesnt fit the timeline.

End up w/ something like -

G - Scoot Henderson / Marcus Sasser / Dalano Banton
G - Shadeon Sharpe / Tim Hardaway JR / Dalano Banton
F - Jerami Grant / Toumari Camara / Kris Murray / Rayan Rupert
F - Deni Avdija / Toumari Camara / Jabari Walker JR / Kris Murray
C - Robert Williams III / Donovan Clingan / Duop Reath

[Walton1one]

Grant may not be able to get a fully unprotected pick (though I maintain he could, depends on the year\team trading), but a lightly protected (top 1-3) pick is almost as good as one. Even if LAL bottomed out, and was a lottery team, there is no guarantee that they could get a Top 3 pick, In fact the teams with the worst 3 records only have a 40% chance of getting a top 3 pick and it declines pretty rapidly from there (#4 36.6%, #5 31.6%, #6 27.6%).

Then of course POR could negotiate a rollover if it conveys in 2023 etc....

Most teams that are playoff teams are much more likely to have a protected pick convey (provided it is not too far out or have some ridiculous protections on it)

The team POR played last night (SAC) looks to be a prime contender for Grant IMO (or Williams, if he can show that he is healthy)

Lyles\Huerter + end of bench fodder (Robinson\McDermott\Jones) for Grant and 27 1st could work.

Still think MIL makes a ton of sense, they are struggling, Middleton still hurt and his play has been slipping year after year.

Middleton, 33, underwent multiple surgeries during the offseason and will not be ready to go on opening night. Milwaukee is taking a cautious approach to Middleton's return to play. In recent years, he has been hobbled by various injuries.
Middleton underwent surgery on both ankles during the 2024 offseason. His designation on the official injury report is "bilateral ankle surgery."

No surprise here, as Middleton has yet to be cleared for 5-on-5 with contact. It remains to be seen if he'll miss his fifth straight game Thursday against Memphis.

A Grant\Middleton swap would work with POR getting a 31' 1st and 31' 2nd, then POR could re-route Middleton to another team for something later.

This would give POR, 29' & 31' 1st round picks from MIL + swaps in 28', 30', and leverage, which works for both POR & MIL (note BRK & HOU moves recently) which means if MIL bottoms out in the next 2 years they have one team (POR) they can approach to get their picks\swaps back.

[DusterBuster]

No team is going to trade for Simons as a 6th man. He's not paid like one, and with the CBA what it is, good teams can't pay a 6th man starter money. Not Orlando, not Dallas, not Golden State.

I disagree. Teams in a championship window will take that swing if they think that's the last piece they need to truly contend. You also have teams like GS that might consider him a stopgap that can easily move into a starting role when the time comes. So going to respectfully agree to disagree on the overall point I made, however, as I said in my post, I fully agree he's the hardest to move in the group because the fits are limited for him. I think it's pretty unlikely he's moved imo.

There are teams that could use a starting Center, sure...but at 34M/year for the next two years, a team either has to be committed to him long-term as a starter (...remember, he has to be resigned. Is he going to resign for less money as a 28 year old? Whatever he resigns for it's going to be "starter" money). Let's not forget that Ayton has yet to show he can be a good player on a consistently winning basketball team. Ayton sometimes gets compared to another "empty stats" player in Whiteside--Whiteside had at least 3 seasons of helping Miami to a winning record, if memory serves...

I think there's a bit of an overraction to Ayton's contract going on. He's an expiring contract next year, if the team trading for him is moving dead-money contracts for players not contributing as much as he would to the team, that's an easy move and could make minimal bottom-line salary impact for the team acquiring him. I believe this time - in any players contract - is about the most valuable they'll ever be because they're locked in, but only for a short time so you aren't "forced" to resign him the next summer.

I think the attitude around Ayton is more of a barrier to seeing him as a movable contract than the player or contract that he is actually is. Your example itself somewhat betrays what your point in Whiteside... This is why I don't buy your point that a team has to be "commited to him long-term as a starter". Even being considered a empty calorie C, Whiteside was moved while on his expensive but short-term contract. This gives a team a chance to see what they have and what it looks like, but also an easy out for if it doesn't work. Just as Portland did with Whiteside, a team in need of a big will take a swing on a guy with a larger contract as long as its not a long contract (check), he's not injury prone (check), and the price is right (tbd from Cronin-zone).

Thybulle...sure he can be traded. But I'm not sure many teams will value him over a second round pick at this point. His defense has fallen off pretty hard from his younger years, and he's never actually been that great of an on-ball defender...he's better as a help, disruptor type. He shoots below league average from 2pt and 3pt and is now 27 years old, with stats trending the wrong way. If the roles were reversed, I'd rather my team took a chance on a rookie second rounder being able to fill the same role as Thybulle, while also having upside.

Agreed, I think Thybulle is either a throw-in or an expiring and some second rounders. Never meant to portray him as having a FRP quality value back. He seems like a classic, filler category and 2 or 3 2nd rounders type trade if traded alone.

RWIII...IMHO, has the best chance of being traded for two reasons. 1) If he shows any kind of health then he deserves minutes, and it seems like the Blazers have their rotation of Ayton/Clingan, with an eye for Clingan lon-term. 2) I think there is a team that would be willing to give up a 2nd rounder for what he brings to a team, healthy or not, with a 12M cap hit for 1 year.

This is essentially what I said. If he's injured, the only way he returns a FRP of any sort is if the Blazers are assuming some deadweight salary from a team, even then it likely is only 2nd rounders for the deadweight salary. If health, I still think a FRP is unlikely given injury risk and contract status. That said, if he's injured, I could just as much see the Blazers keeping the salary saving for themselves vs absorbing a bad contract for draft capital... in fact I think that's probably the more likely outcome. That's why I have him as pretty much a toss-up asset for if he stays or goes. Would bet the over he's moved, but who knows.

[dckingsfan]

I could see NO as interested in Ayton and DET taking a swing on Simons. But I dont think we get much value for either. I would say something like -

PDX OUT - Ayton
PDX IN - Simmons, 2 SRP

NO OUT - BI
NO IN - Ayton, Lowest BRK 25 FRP

BRK OUT - Simmons, Lowest BRK 25 FRP, 2 SRP
BRK IN - BI

I would cut Simmons - we shave a year of Ayton, get a few SRP and open the C spot for Clingan and RWIII.

Then Simons to DET for THJ + Sasser + 2-3 SRP.

We shave a year of Simons, get a nice backup PG locked in for 3 years, snag a few more SRP and a shooter like THJ would be nice for youngster development even if he doesnt fit the timeline.

End up w/ something like -

G - Scoot Henderson / Marcus Sasser / Dalano Banton
G - Shadeon Sharpe / Tim Hardaway JR / Dalano Banton
F - Jerami Grant / Toumari Camara / Kris Murray / Rayan Rupert
F - Deni Avdija / Toumari Camara / Jabari Walker JR / Kris Murray
C - Robert Williams III / Donovan Clingan / Duop Reath

- Brooklyn is trying to tank to get the first pick.
-- Ingram would make them better.

- They want Simmons because he is expiring to give them cap space for next year (they see themselves as a destination spot for FAs).

- If they do trade Simmons it will be for a bad contract with multiple FRPs (which is unlikely).