Game 17: Portland vs Houston 5 00pm Chargetv

[tester551]

Demin\Sharpe\Camara\Deni

There you go... This is the way. Would just need one more dead-eye shooter in the corner

[DaVoiceMaster]

If I'm in charge, I'm building around Scoot, Sharpe, Camara, Deni, Clingan, Banton (for now), and keeping an eye on Murray and Rupert. Do I include RWIII? He's intriguing, but is he dependable health wise.

I would look to move Ayton, Simons, Grant, and Thybulle. Perhaps RWIII, as well. I'd take expiring (or no more than 1-year left) contracts, young talent, and/or picks. Clear that $100M off the books next year (and beyond).

Anyone not mentioned is expendable.

[monopoman]

I have a feeling Clingan will end up being one of the best picks this organization has ever made, the fire in this guy is so rare he gets knocked down with a minor injury then still cares enough to try to get up and make a play on the basket.

This dude is unreal, if this is just a taste of what's to come he might go down as one of the best big men in NBA history. He also will be a fan favorite in Portland because this fanbase loves guys that treat every game like it's the playoffs.

[Wizenheimer]

this game is a great example of winning a battle while losing the war

any wins added by Simons and Grant just monkey wrench Portland's lottery chances in what may be the best draft class, espeially in the top-5, in decades. It's so typical of bad Blazer management to tank into one of the worst drafts in history last year, and win too many games (without any realistic chance of the playoffs) to land in the top 5 this June

Simons & Grant should have been traded the same off-season as Dame and Ayton should have never been added in the Dame trade. I said before this season started that I had a hunch the Blazers would somehow land on the worst outcome for this season; and it's beginning to look like it

[m0ng0]

So these players (simons,ayton,grant) for better or worse are on the team right? So as a coach you say play well just dont score? Or are you saying bench your 3 best players because we might win? Because until they are not on the roster well they are....tank your career because we want to lose and we are going to cut or trade you anyways?

Do you tell them no more than 5 shots per game? What is your thought?

[Norm2953]

It's a bit much to seek to lose as many games as possible for the team still wants to develop
their young players for they face some decisions starting next summer when Sharpe is eligible
for an extension. Will Sharpe want an extension if the team continues to tank?

Team does have the makings of a team they can win with for Clingan is going to be a solid
starting center. Deni is just a solid player with some similarities to Toni Kukoc. Sharpe has
all kinds of physical talent and has had a solid couple of weeks. Team also has solid guys
like Camara around and has hopes Rupert will develop into a player.

Team should know what they have in Scoot by the end of the season. He likely won't develop
into a guy picked third in a draft but he might still be a guy who will be around for 8-10
seasons.

I really think the team if they fail to get the star they need in the 2025 draft, can still add
another solid guy that will help the team win. Its going to be a guard heavy draft and some
of the guys who were tabbed to be top 5 picks, aren't exactly dominant in the early going.

[monopoman]

It's a bit much to seek to lose as many games as possible for the team still wants to develop
their young players for they face some decisions starting next summer when Sharpe is eligible
for an extension. Will Sharpe want an extension if the team continues to tank?

Team does have the makings of a team they can win with for Clingan is going to be a solid
starting center. Deni is just a solid player with some similarities to Toni Kukoc. Sharpe has
all kinds of physical talent and has had a solid couple of weeks. Team also has solid guys
like Camara around and has hopes Rupert will develop into a player.

Team should know what they have in Scoot by the end of the season. He likely won't develop
into a guy picked third in a draft but he might still be a guy who will be around for 8-10
seasons.

I really think the team if they fail to get the star they need in the 2025 draft, can still add
another solid guy that will help the team win. Its going to be a guard heavy draft and some
of the guys who were tabbed to be top 5 picks, aren't exactly dominant in the early going.

Well that and like I point out even the worst team in the NBA has 14% chance at that #1 pick, ever since they flattened the odds they have made tanking a lot worse.

Sure, for teams that suck ass I get it the draft is your only hope, but we are starting to see something good here despite having the 5th hardest schedule so far the Blazers are 7-10. In previous years facing this tough of a schedule would probably make this team like 3-14 or something like that.

I just don't see this strong need to throw away everything trying to chase that #1 pick. We also did try to trade Grant it was something the Blazers were focused on they just couldn't find a team willing to give up enough in their view.

[BlazersBroncos]

So these players (simons,ayton,grant) for better or worse are on the team right? So as a coach you say play well just dont score? Or are you saying bench your 3 best players because we might win? Because until they are not on the roster well they are....tank your career because we want to lose and we are going to cut or trade you anyways?

Do you tell them no more than 5 shots per game? What is your thought?

Those guys are not our 3 best players.

Clingan contribute to winning games more than Ayton. Full stop. We are a better team when he is on the floor rather than DA. This is wildly obvious.

Both Deni and Sharpe are better than Simons.

Grant is one of our top 3 guys, but the other 2 slots are a dice roll between Deni, Sharpe and DC.

[BNM]

I have a feeling Clingan will end up being one of the best picks this organization has ever made, the fire in this guy is so rare he gets knocked down with a minor injury then still cares enough to try to get up and make a play on the basket.

This dude is unreal, if this is just a taste of what's to come he might go down as one of the best big men in NBA history. He also will be a fan favorite in Portland because this fanbase loves guys that treat every game like it's the playoffs.

As long as one season under Chauncey doesn't undo two seasons under Hurley, Clingan has multiple DPOY potential.

[Walton1one]

I’m not going to panic yet, but this team playing at the pace it is now even if they go into severe tank mode after the trade deadline (6-26) which I am not sure is possible this season is 19-20 wins before the break and then 6+ after the break, so 26-30 wins

That would be a disaster. Wiz is 100% correct. Sacrificing the chance to add a impactful maybe even franchise player to chase meaningless wins is beyond foolish and shortsighted and YES the odds absolutely matter. I can post it again but the odds drop precipitously after the 5 or so worst records and for something this meanigful\critical to POR long term future to jeopardize that even a little is absolutely criminal

I just cannot understand fans who chase mediocrity at the expense of excellence. From the Vulcans, yeah I can expect that b/c all they care about is milking the money cow, that is why this team cannot be sold soon enough and Cronin and all the other lackeys of Vulcan can be sent packing.

This is unfolding exactly like my worst case scenario, the young guys are good enough to win more games then they were last year, particularly with the new additions, and the vets add just enough to propel the team to a few extra wins that they would not get if they played just all the young guys, just completely stupid

[Tim Lehrbach]

I just cannot understand fans who chase mediocrity at the expense of excellence.

So, first things first: I hate this roster and do not believe it is capable of even sustained mediocrity. Because of where this franchise finds itself, I'm in for the deep rebuild this time around.

But, a couple of things here.

One, Anfernee Simons playing is not messing up the tank. He's a below average starter. Is he screwing up the development by his poor examples of defense and floor leadership? There's a strong case for that, and I want him off the team. But he's not ruining the chance to capture the Flagg, or whatever, because of his overwhelmingly positive play.

Two, I reject generalizing the idea that mediocrity stands in the way of "excellence," while tanking gets you there. Tanking and mediocrity have about equal shots of becoming eventual excellence, which is to say very little. I think what happens is fans get tired of mediocrity and prefer the Hail May of the top of the draft. It's an understandable position, but we should be honest about what it means, which is a high likelihood of even worse basketball with slightly better odds at hitting the superstar jackpot, which in turn still leaves a whole lot of team-building ahead before you even surpass the mediocrity you left behind for the tank. The Blazers are in tank mode, having left the Lillard era and its middling results behind for sucking and praying to the draft gods. A few unexpected wins don't change that.

If this team was even mediocre on the floor, from the bench, and in the front office, like most of the Lillard teams, I'd support trying to improve on the margins and hope for a charmed season here and there, as happened with Dame. But no, the Blazers are in a position to tank not because the team is mediocre but because it is horrible. The two best players most nights are centers -- one a rookie and the other a Timelord Timebomb -- who are limited in their offensive impact, the backcourt is a total mess, and the forwards couldn't hit a damn duck if they held the Zapper against the TV. The coach has demonstrated zero lift whatsoever. We all know about the infinite wisdom of the top brass.

I'm with y'all on embracing this tank, but only because we've reached last resort level here, not because I strongly believe it's going to work and work quickly to turn this franchise around. And I disagree that we're seeing mediocrity out there. This team thoroughly sucks. The losses will pile up soon enough.

[m0ng0]

So these players (simons,ayton,grant) for better or worse are on the team right? So as a coach you say play well just dont score? Or are you saying bench your 3 best players because we might win? Because until they are not on the roster well they are....tank your career because we want to lose and we are going to cut or trade you anyways?

Do you tell them no more than 5 shots per game? What is your thought?

Those guys are not our 3 best players.

Clingan contribute to winning games more than Ayton. Full stop. We are a better team when he is on the floor rather than DA. This is wildly obvious.

Both Deni and Sharpe are better than Simons.

Grant is one of our top 3 guys, but the other 2 slots are a dice roll between Deni, Sharpe and DC.

My point is they are still on the team, do you say don't make baskets? If you are them how do you feel because your career is on the line and you are playing for a **** team?

[BlazersBroncos]

So these players (simons,ayton,grant) for better or worse are on the team right? So as a coach you say play well just dont score? Or are you saying bench your 3 best players because we might win? Because until they are not on the roster well they are....tank your career because we want to lose and we are going to cut or trade you anyways?

Do you tell them no more than 5 shots per game? What is your thought?

You trade Simons and Ayton for a used condom and a bag of old potatoes.

But really the team is generally worse with Simons and Ayton playing so they actually help the tank.

Clingan contribute to winning games more than Ayton. Full stop. We are a better team when he is on the floor rather than DA. This is wildly obvious.

Both Deni and Sharpe are better than Simons.

Grant is one of our top 3 guys, but the other 2 slots are a dice roll between Deni, Sharpe and DC.

My point is they are still on the team, do you say don't make baskets? If you are them how do you feel because your career is on the line and you are playing for a **** team?

[zzaj]

Was finally able to go back and watch the game...

Pretty much agreed with the overall sentiment here that this was an "unnecessary win".

Even though he had a good defensive game, I'm going to keep picking on Clingan. I'm fine with one-handed tip rebounds if it's outside of his area, but he needs to put two hands on the ball on rebounds if they are in his area. And he needs to keep them HIGH. Too many times is he bringing the ball down and getting stripped.

On offense? I've said it before but he needs a summer of "dunk or it doesn't count". That is a Newell game that he used to teach at his big man camps. Basically, any score within 5 feet of the basket had to be a dunk or the player made no points on the possession--even if he scored. Right now Clingan is using his off arm to keep defenders in check and many times he doesn't need to. He has the size and weight to simply use his body and go up with two hands on the ball for dunks.

But he'll get better...kid is only 20.

[zzaj]

I’m not going to panic yet, but this team playing at the pace it is now even if they go into severe tank mode after the trade deadline (6-26) which I am not sure is possible this season is 19-20 wins before the break and then 6+ after the break, so 26-30 wins

That would be a disaster. Wiz is 100% correct. Sacrificing the chance to add a impactful maybe even franchise player to chase meaningless wins is beyond foolish and shortsighted and YES the odds absolutely matter. I can post it again but the odds drop precipitously after the 5 or so worst records and for something this meanigful\critical to POR long term future to jeopardize that even a little is absolutely criminal

I just cannot understand fans who chase mediocrity at the expense of excellence. From the Vulcans, yeah I can expect that b/c all they care about is milking the money cow, that is why this team cannot be sold soon enough and Cronin and all the other lackeys of Vulcan can be sent packing.

This is unfolding exactly like my worst case scenario, the young guys are good enough to win more games then they were last year, particularly with the new additions, and the vets add just enough to propel the team to a few extra wins that they would not get if they played just all the young guys, just completely stupid

Well, 26-30 wins is pretty much the range most expected from this team headed into the season.

The good news is, that's not going to be anywhere near enough to sniff the play-in. The real danger here is the EC. So far the East has been playing like dookie--with only 4 teams with a winning record. Wow. I'm not sure anybody expected that...I fully expect the East to come around a bit with not even a fifth of the season completed, but I'm sure some unexpected teams are going to end up deciding to tank.

Right now the Blazers are tied with the Bucks for the 13th worse record in the league which is entirely unacceptable.

[Walton1one]

One, Anfernee Simons playing is not messing up the tank. He's a below-average starter. Is he screwing up the development by his poor examples of defense and floor leadership? There's a strong case for that, and I want him off the team. But he's not ruining the chance to capture the Flagg, or whatever, because of his overwhelmingly positive play.

Good post, I disagree with your premise. I somewhat answered this in another thread, but there are likely 3-4 wins BECAUSE of the big 3. A little more context here for each of those games:

10/27 NO Team shot 46% from 3pt - 40% from 2pt - subtract big 3 - 38% from 2pt - 35% from 3pt
10/30 LAC Team shot 44% from 2pt - 42% from 3pt - subtract big 3 - 54% from 2pt - 57% from 3pt
11/4 NO Team shot 55% from 2pt - 34% from 3pt - subtract big 3 - 58% from 2pt - 31% from 3pt
11/23 HOU Team shot 38% from 2pt - 41% from 3pt - subtract big 3 - 27% from 2pt - 38% from 3pt

Scores in those games
10/27 NO Simons 27, Grant 28, Ayton 17
10/30 LAC Simons 25, Grant 8, Ayton 15
11/4 NO Simons 24, Grant 16, Ayton 19
11/23 HOU Simons 25, Grant 22

10/27 & 11/23, pretty clear without the big 3 those are losses, likely same on 11/4, though NO is playing like utter crap so they could have lost that game anyway

10/30 @ LAC was a 1pt win @ LAC, Simons\Grant|Ayton all played 24min+, though young guys clearly shot better, but spread those minutes out to a myriad of young guys\bench players and results would likely be different IMO.

I get it, so what? They win 3 games they shouldn't, big deal. Well, extrapolate that out through, let's say tank season (Feb 6th) that was 50 games LY, looks like 49 games this year, after that POR went 6-26.

That is a record around 21 & 28 at the deadline, with about 8? of those games wins they should not have?

I doubt they can tank as bad as LY with the roster they have this year, but let's say they do (6-26). That is a 27-55 record, instead of a 19-63 record.

So what, they still have odds to get the #1 pick or a top 5 pick in this draft, no big deal.

Well, based on LY that is around the 8th worst record. don't think that record would be as low as 8th this year given the amount of teams tanking, the POR roster etc.., but let's say they are the same

Sweet 8th pick, odds are still ok, right?

Chance @ #1 - 6%
Chance @ #2/3/4 (can't get #5 or #6 BTW) - 20.2%

Chance @ #8 - 34.5%
Chance @ #9 - 31.1%
Chance @ 10/11/12 - 7.2%

That is a 26.2% chance at a Top 5 pick (in a draft with 5 consensus high level\franchise level players, that is important) & a 73.8% chance of landing at #8/#9 or worse. Want to bet your house on those odds?

So congratulations, you won meaningless games, ended up with a pick outside the top 5, in a loaded top heavy draft, if you are lucky added another complementary player and just extended your misery for another year.

It does matter, and you are right, there is no guarantee that a top 5 player will be a franchise\all star caliber player, in fact chances are 1 or 2 of those players will not be, but that is where scouting comes in, all you want to guarantee is that you are in position to GET that player, picking the right one is up to the GM.

[Tim Lehrbach]

Good breakdown. I think the team stinks and will show it soon enough, but I was hasty in saying the vets haven't affected wins and losses.

[JasonStern]

At least I can finally see the games for I got my channel master antenna today

Signal cuts out periodically

Glad for people that can actually watch the games. Crazy to me that distribution has been so bad in the streaming era. I pretty much just watch the 10 minute YouTube highlights now. Which has its pros, given where the team is at.

But super glad the Ducks went to the Big Ten. TV access to all football and basketball games.

And yes, I can get NBA League Pass and FubuTV to get the Pac12 network, but I'm glad I don't have to. Streaming services costs add up.