Game 56: Portland vs Charlotte 7: 00pm Chargetv and KUNP

[Walton1one]

Camara reminds me of Jerome Kersey, never stops hustling, I think Camara’s defense is definitely a step above Kersey’s though

No wonder LAL rescinded that trade, paying that price to get Williams, who’s not a very impressive player IMO

POR up by 36, Simons\Grant with 22 shots, almost 40% of the team’s total attempts

If I was the CHA GM, I would trade Ball as soon as possible, that guy is never going to be a winning player, find some other sucker team to pay you assets for him

Camara with 20-10-5 and stifling defense

See this is one of those games, like why is Simons still in the game? I think he plays him too much already, but if he is a coach who believes so much in his “vets “ then why wouldn’t you want to rest him in a 40 point blowout, rather than leave him to pad his stats or risk injury? These are the kinds of things that dumb coaches do.

Lol, and then he brings Grant back in

43pt lead after the 3Q, how many minutes will Billups play the starters in the 4Q?

Are we not sure Camara can't develop into a franchise star? Is that off the table if he takes another offensive jump next year? Could he almost become like an early career Paul George?

He has been having a great year, no doubt, but isn’t this what people were saying about Herb Jones/NO, last year? I mean, he’s not a go to guy, like give him the ball and he makes something happen. Does anyone really think he’s going to develop into that?

He’s definitely a supporting piece, looks like he could be a high-level supporting piece, but let’s remember this is a sub .500 team

This is just the baffling nature of having Cronin as your GM, he’s acquired high-level supporting pieces IMO, but without the star player, it is a team going nowhere, I mean tonight any player could look like a star against that CHA team, look at Jabari Walker 20–14. Should they offer him a $15-$20 million contract based on that performance? Is that the kind of player Walker is or is CHA particularly that bad tonight?

[zzaj]

I can't really add anything...it's mostly already been said.

Great to see Camara's 3pt shot become more of a weapon.

I'm very concerned that none of Scoot, Sharpe, and Clingan got more than 21 minutes in what was a 33 point blowout at halftime.

In fact, I'm pretty concerned that a lineup of Scoot, Sharpe, Camara, Deni, Clingan, has basically have never played at all together this season. That 5 man group doesn't make it into the top 20 in terms of minutes played...and #20 is 29 minutes cumulative for the season.

Chauncey and Crolshey are obviously invested in Ayton, Grant, and Simons as big minute players. As long as this remains the case, the Blazers will be a sub-.500 team...and the only reason they may even approach becoming a flirting with .500 team will be because of contributions from the other big minute players--Deni and Camara. Those two are winning players, while Ayton, Grant, and Simons are not.

[PDXKnight]

Camara reminds me of Jerome Kersey, never stops hustling, I think Camara’s defense is definitely a step above Kersey’s though

No wonder LAL rescinded that trade, paying that price to get Williams, who’s not a very impressive player IMO

POR up by 36, Simons\Grant with 22 shots, almost 40% of the team’s total attempts

If I was the CHA GM, I would trade Ball as soon as possible, that guy is never going to be a winning player, find some other sucker team to pay you assets for him

Camara with 20-10-5 and stifling defense

See this is one of those games, like why is Simons still in the game? I think he plays him too much already, but if he is a coach who believes so much in his “vets “ then why wouldn’t you want to rest him in a 40 point blowout, rather than leave him to pad his stats or risk injury? These are the kinds of things that dumb coaches do.

Lol, and then he brings Grant back in

43pt lead after the 3Q, how many minutes will Billups play the starters in the 4Q?

Are we not sure Camara can't develop into a franchise star? Is that off the table if he takes another offensive jump next year? Could he almost become like an early career Paul George?

He has been having a great year, no doubt, but isn’t this what people were saying about Herb Jones/NO, last year? I mean, he’s not a go to guy, like give him the ball and he makes something happen. Does anyone really think he’s going to develop into that?

He’s definitely a supporting piece, looks like he could be a high-level supporting piece, but let’s remember this is a sub .500 team

This is just the baffling nature of having Cronin as your GM, he’s acquired high-level supporting pieces IMO, but without the star player, it is a team going nowhere, I mean tonight any player could look like a star against that CHA team, look at Jabari Walker 20–14. Should they offer him a $15-$20 million contract based on that performance? Is that the kind of player Walker is or is CHA particularly that bad tonight?

I don't see a single first or second option currently on this entire roster. Deni for sure looks like a 3rd option, maybe toumani, maybe Sharpe maybe Scoot could be a 3rd offensive option.

I don't see this team getting anywhere without tanking. There isn't enough top end talent to convince me after this rebuild our best case scenario isn't around 50 wins and Nate McMillan type 4-5 game first round exits

[Case2012]

I think it makes way more sense to develop Camara as a first option than it does Sharpe. He plays with a motor that doesn't stop. I've been saying this for a while and i see other posters are starting to come around. Why can't he be a Kawhi or PG type player? Because he's 24? I hate these narratives that get attached to players artificially creating low ceilings for them when it's as simple as change in coaching. We all agree Billups is complete trash but it's obvious to me that Camara has all the tools to be a 2 way star if he got 20 shots a game i think he could easily be a 22-25 ppg player that also has first team defense on top of it. He's getting more minutes than our lottery picks already. The refusal to develop the players we've been losing all these games for the last 4 years is crazy. I think it's obvious that Camara deserves those shots more than SImons, more than Grant and more than Sharpe. Give him the go ahead to start putting up 18-22 shots a game and see what happens. Of course, how likely would that be with Grant, Simons, and Ayton ahead of him?

[Case2012]

Battle of the tank. I hate charlotte so much... They manage to always pick before us, every time. Are we the charlotte of the west now?? What have you done joe??? Goddamn Rhianna.. jfc.

Who would you like as a GLB?
Keep in mind the following rules
1) Must be a public person.
2) Must be over 18.
3) Please no adult film stars or political stars.
4) I also try not to repeat people in the regular season.

I wasnt complaining BC!!! I would die to just smell Rhianna's .... anything?

[Sinobas]

Camara reminds me of Jerome Kersey, never stops hustling, I think Camara’s defense is definitely a step above Kersey’s though

No wonder LAL rescinded that trade, paying that price to get Williams, who’s not a very impressive player IMO

POR up by 36, Simons\Grant with 22 shots, almost 40% of the team’s total attempts

If I was the CHA GM, I would trade Ball as soon as possible, that guy is never going to be a winning player, find some other sucker team to pay you assets for him

Camara with 20-10-5 and stifling defense

See this is one of those games, like why is Simons still in the game? I think he plays him too much already, but if he is a coach who believes so much in his “vets “ then why wouldn’t you want to rest him in a 40 point blowout, rather than leave him to pad his stats or risk injury? These are the kinds of things that dumb coaches do.

Lol, and then he brings Grant back in

43pt lead after the 3Q, how many minutes will Billups play the starters in the 4Q?

Are we not sure Camara can't develop into a franchise star? Is that off the table if he takes another offensive jump next year? Could he almost become like an early career Paul George?

He has been having a great year, no doubt, but isn’t this what people were saying about Herb Jones/NO, last year? I mean, he’s not a go to guy, like give him the ball and he makes something happen. Does anyone really think he’s going to develop into that?

He’s definitely a supporting piece, looks like he could be a high-level supporting piece, but let’s remember this is a sub .500 team

This is just the baffling nature of having Cronin as your GM, he’s acquired high-level supporting pieces IMO, but without the star player, it is a team going nowhere, I mean tonight any player could look like a star against that CHA team, look at Jabari Walker 20–14. Should they offer him a $15-$20 million contract based on that performance? Is that the kind of player Walker is or is CHA particularly that bad tonight?

I think Camara will be a star, a major piece of the future. Not offensively, but because he's an elite defender who has progressed offensively to a point where he doesn't look like an offensive liability. Teams salivate over elite defenders that can shot the 3 at least average. And Camara is up to 37%, which is slightly above. His TS% is now league average.

It would be like if a player was great offensively, like Damian Lillard, but also solid on defense.

[m0ng0]

Camara is starting to look like a Scottie Pippen, if only Sharp could be our version of Jordan he has the skills and the body... just not the passion.

[Shem]

I think it makes way more sense to develop Camara as a first option than it does Sharpe. He plays with a motor that doesn't stop. I've been saying this for a while and i see other posters are starting to come around. Why can't he be a Kawhi or PG type player? Because he's 24? I hate these narratives that get attached to players artificially creating low ceilings for them when it's as simple as change in coaching. We all agree Billups is complete trash but it's obvious to me that Camara has all the tools to be a 2 way star if he got 20 shots a game i think he could easily be a 22-25 ppg player that also has first team defense on top of it. He's getting more minutes than our lottery picks already. The refusal to develop the players we've been losing all these games for the last 4 years is crazy. I think it's obvious that Camara deserves those shots more than SImons, more than Grant and more than Sharpe. Give him the go ahead to start putting up 18-22 shots a game and see what happens. Of course, how likely would that be with Grant, Simons, and Ayton ahead of him?

Camara will never be that guy you an give him the ball an let him close out games type of offensive player.

[BNM]

I'm very concerned that none of Scoot, Sharpe, and Clingan got more than 21 minutes in what was a 33 point blowout at halftime.

In fact, I'm pretty concerned that a lineup of Scoot, Sharpe, Camara, Deni, Clingan, has basically have never played at all together this season. That 5 man group doesn't make it into the top 20 in terms of minutes played...and #20 is 29 minutes cumulative for the season.

Yep, those 5 should be starting and playing big minutes EVERY game. Instead, dumbass Chauncey will continue to start Grant and Simons (and Ayton, if he was healthy) all is the sake of trying to save his job. Really???? That ship has sailed. When the goal was to win now with Lillard, he failed miserably. When the goal is to develop the young players, he's failing miserably. He's just flat out a terrible coach, no matter what the goal.

Shut down Simons and Grant and start Clingan, Deni, Toumani, Shaedon and Scoot - and play them all 30 MPG. Stop playing the overpriced, underperforming vets and give the minutes to the lottery picks we sucked for 3 seasons to get.

Maybe none of them will develop into a 1st option, or even a 2nd option, but that's something you need to know when entering the next two drafts and when contemplating future extensions for these guys. Until we see those 5 starting together and playing big minutes, we don't really know what we have. Deni and Toumani are solid NBA starters, but the 21-year olds still have both questions and potential.

Play them, play them, play them without Simons, Grant and Ayton dominating the ball. See if Scott and Clingan can develop a solid two-man, PnR game. See what Camara can contribute on offense when he isn't literally the 7th option (he's currently 1st on the team in MPG, but 7th in FGA/G).

Better still, see what these guys can do with a competent coach...

[Shem]

Over at the Hornets board:

Camara is a stud. He took Melo's soul.

[Case2012]

I think it makes way more sense to develop Camara as a first option than it does Sharpe. He plays with a motor that doesn't stop. I've been saying this for a while and i see other posters are starting to come around. Why can't he be a Kawhi or PG type player? Because he's 24? I hate these narratives that get attached to players artificially creating low ceilings for them when it's as simple as change in coaching. We all agree Billups is complete trash but it's obvious to me that Camara has all the tools to be a 2 way star if he got 20 shots a game i think he could easily be a 22-25 ppg player that also has first team defense on top of it. He's getting more minutes than our lottery picks already. The refusal to develop the players we've been losing all these games for the last 4 years is crazy. I think it's obvious that Camara deserves those shots more than SImons, more than Grant and more than Sharpe. Give him the go ahead to start putting up 18-22 shots a game and see what happens. Of course, how likely would that be with Grant, Simons, and Ayton ahead of him?

Camara will never be that guy you an give him the ball an let him close out games type of offensive player.

Because?.. This is what i was talking about with narratives.

[DaVoiceMaster]

Battle of the tank. I hate charlotte so much... They manage to always pick before us, every time. Are we the charlotte of the west now?? What have you done joe??? Goddamn Rhianna.. jfc.

Who would you like as a GLB?
Keep in mind the following rules
1) Must be a public person.
2) Must be over 18.
3) Please no adult film stars or political stars.
4) I also try not to repeat people in the regular season.

I dont remember who all you have done so I will just throw out some names...

Salma Hayek
Jennifer Lopez
Nicole Scherzinger
Heidi Klum
Jennifer Anniston
Jessica Alba
Beyonce Knolls
Alesha Dixon
Katrina Law
Ana de Armas
Paige Sprianac
Margot Robbie
Natalie Portman
Alexandra Daddorio
Penelope Cruz
Amanda Seyfried
Eva Mendez
Anne Hathaway
Rachel Weisz
Elizabeth Dushku
Jennifer Love Hewitt (younger)
Ashley Judd

That should be a good start for you! :lol;

[DaVoiceMaster]

I see Kawhi Leonard when I look at Camara. Now, hes not there yet offensively, but this is year 2 and he is improving offensively. Could he be as good as Kawhi? No clue, but he has the drive i love to see in a player.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

I think Kawhi was a little more toolsy (athleticism, length) and made a pretty huge leap with his handles at a younger age.

I initially kind of laughed at Lamar's early season comp to Jimmy Butler but I can see that more and more. 3-4 year college player who comes into the league as a defensive specialist but has the drive and enough IQ to learn to score more and more efficiently each year. Comping them both at 24 is pretty close, Jimmy had better steal/block numbers with fewer fouls but Camara is the better shooter.

[Dame Lizard]

I think Kawhi was a little more toolsy (athleticism, length) and made a pretty huge leap with his handles at a younger age.

I initially kind of laughed at Lamar's early season comp to Jimmy Butler but I can see that more and more. 3-4 year college player who comes into the league as a defensive specialist but has the drive and enough IQ to learn to score more and more efficiently each year. Comping them both at 24 is pretty close, Jimmy had better steal/block numbers with fewer fouls but Camara is the better shooter.

This. Camara's blue sky potential is more aligned to Butler than Kawhi.

Now I don't think he'll get there - I see him maxing out as a 15-17 ppg player, but I think he's an excellent two way player to have on our roster. He's turning 25 In a few months. Butler was at current Camara's level a year younger, and made his first all star appearance at 25 years old. While Toumani has improved significantly, statistically there is a very low chance that he'll make the Jimmy Butler leap.

Toumani had 1.5 FTA per game @ 10.5 ppg.

Butler had 2.8 FTA per game @ 8.6 ppg and 5.0 FTA per game @ 13.1 ppg.

[DusterBuster]

I think it makes way more sense to develop Camara as a first option than it does Sharpe. He plays with a motor that doesn't stop. I've been saying this for a while and i see other posters are starting to come around. Why can't he be a Kawhi or PG type player? Because he's 24? I hate these narratives that get attached to players artificially creating low ceilings for them when it's as simple as change in coaching. We all agree Billups is complete trash but it's obvious to me that Camara has all the tools to be a 2 way star if he got 20 shots a game i think he could easily be a 22-25 ppg player that also has first team defense on top of it. He's getting more minutes than our lottery picks already. The refusal to develop the players we've been losing all these games for the last 4 years is crazy. I think it's obvious that Camara deserves those shots more than SImons, more than Grant and more than Sharpe. Give him the go ahead to start putting up 18-22 shots a game and see what happens. Of course, how likely would that be with Grant, Simons, and Ayton ahead of him?

Camara will never be that guy you an give him the ball an let him close out games type of offensive player.

I’m not ready to say Camara will “never” be anything. He’s been exceeding expectations since day 1. Until he starts showing he cant add to his game, that’s when I’ll start using the “never” keyword.

I don’t see Kawhi or Butler really myself, I still think his trajectory looks more like PG (assuming he just has that same upward momentum, which is not guaranteed by any chance of the imagination)

[Wizenheimer]

Are we not sure Camara can't develop into a franchise star? Is that off the table if he takes another offensive jump next year? Could he almost become like an early career Paul George?

I think people sometimes forget that Camara turns 25 in about 2.5 months. He's not a 21 year old with a large improvement curve ahead

when PG13 was 25 he averaged 23-7-4. Camara is averaging 11-6-2
when PG 13 was 25 he had a PER of 20.9, a winshare/48 of .157, and a BPM of +4.9; Camara has a PER of 12.0, a .083 winshare/48 and a BPM of -0.9 (at 23 PG averaged 22-7-4)

and that was the season that George returned from that horrendous injury so he wasn't at full steam

Camara will steadily improve, but I don't think any massive leap is in his future. Maybe settles in around 17-7-4 with a few all-NBA defensive nominations in his belt

[DaVoiceMaster]

I dont mean to say Camara could be as good as Leonard. I can see him improving his offensive game so he's more of a 2-way player, not just a sit in the corner and hitting an ocassional 3.

[Case2012]

The point i made about other players getting their shots over him has largely been ignored. If he was given the green light to take 18-20 shots a game instead of Simons and Grant getting those shots, i think you'd see a leap. Now will Billups ever do that? No, probably not. I think if he had a better coach, you'd see a Deandre Hunter type leap. Just because he's almost 25 doesn't mean he couldn't do it. People obsess over stats too much sometimes instead of using their eyes and write people off because it fits a the narrative they've created. 25 is just entering their prime, and if Camara worked with Dame and Simons shot creation coach, with his work ethic-who knows? Again, i think it's more of a matter of coaching and personnel decisions than ability. With this regime he might peak at Deandre Hunter this year.

[zzaj]

The point i made about other players getting their shots over him has largely been ignored. If he was given the green light to take 18-20 shots a game instead of Simons and Grant getting those shots, i think you'd see a leap. Now will Billups ever do that? No, probably not. I think if he had a better coach, you'd see a Deandre Hunter type leap. Just because he's almost 25 doesn't mean he couldn't do it. People obsess over stats too much sometimes instead of using their eyes and write people off because it fits a the narrative they've created. 25 is just entering their prime, and if Camara worked with Dame and Simons shot creation coach, with his work ethic-who knows? Again, i think it's more of a matter of coaching and personnel decisions than ability. With this regime he might peak at Deandre Hunter this year.

Honestly, Case...shot creation is his weakest skill. Creating offense off the dribble on non-closeouts is the most difficult thing in the NBA. That's a big difference between him and players like Kawhi and PG. IMO, part of what makes Camara very, very good is that he knows what he's good at--PofA defense, help defense, hitting open C&S shots, being a connective passer, attacking the occasional closeout--and he doesn't play "above" his skill level very often. He mostly plays efficient basketball.

I'm not sure that just opening up the offense to Camara so that he could take 18-20 shots a game would turn him into a 25 point, 2-way, scorer. For one, full-time offensive creation against NBA defenses takes a ton of stamina...that leaves less in the tank for him on defense. I think we would probably see a less efficient (higher TOs and lower shooting %s) version of Camara if he was given a full green light.

Even though players can sometimes have "growth" spurts at different ages, I tend to agree that at his age we'll likely see incremental improvements throughout his prime...and that's great. He's already a very good player that would start on most teams in the league.