Przy & Blake sit on bench yet again.

[Yadadimean]

^^^Jack on a few occasions has been the reason we won games. It seems like everybody is on the "I HATE NATE AND JACK" bandwagons. I don't know where this is all coming from. Damn near everybody here was ecstatic when Nate came over from Seattle to coach and were happy to have Jack on the roster. Remember all the optimism about Jack when he came in? "Next Chauncey Billups," "Next Terry Porter" anyone? Sometimes a pg takes a while to develop, and to be perfectly honest, Jack fills a need on this team. Vocal and emotional leader. And while that is much needed, I want to pose a question to all of you. How many of you are nervous when Jack goes to the FT line? Not me. How many of you are not confident in Jack's ability to get to the FT line when it is needed? Jack is a good young combo guard and his game is a good contrast to Roy's pg game. Give Jack some time. How many of you couldn't wait to get rid of "Mr 4th Quarter" (Outlaw) 2 years ago?

[Wizenheimer]

Look, I didn't really want to participate in another 'nate is good/nate is bad debate. And I don't want to attack other blazer fans who don't share my view on the coaching.

It was just the suggestion that Nate's substitution decisions in this game were the reason for the loss that got my attention. I think it's simply bogus for this game.

We had a debate over this on the Toronto game. I didn't agree that playing Joel more would have won that game...it's not provable, but at least an arguable case could be made for that view, in that game.

But this game?...no. Portland broke even with Toronto on offensive rebounds. Good rebounding teams will sometimes give up 12 offensive rebounds. Playing Joel another 8 or 9 minutes may have given the blazers one more offensive rebound and Orlando one less. At the possesion efficiency the teams were completing, it would have resulted in around a 1 point differential swing in Portland's favor. That wouldn't have been enough.

And it wasn't like Howard was tearing the blazers up inside. LMA did a quite credible job of defending Howard. Now, if he can just translate that inside defense to more inside offense, portland will be better.

And we know that Joel is no offensive threat. His fumble-fingered ball handling around the basket is highly frustrating. And forcing Howard to cover LMA when LMA was taking up high post position drew Howard toward the perimeter and away from the basket. Joel couldn't do that.

As far as Blake vs Jack, I don't think a case could be made either way. Neither one was having a great game. Nate (& the coaching staff) obviously decided that Blake was best matched up on Arroyo, and Jack was best matched up on Dooling. That makes sense considering the types of games those guys play.

For me, the biggest tactical complaint I would have would be portland's switching defense. They switch on almost all screens and picks. And that's one of the purposes for teams to use screens...to get mismatches. And Portland's defense obliged. And that's why we saw Turkoglu shooting 12' shots over blake, jack, and roy, and also grabbing 4 offensive rebounds over the same guys.

Portland needs to fight through screens more on the perimeter; but they don't have the players physical enough to do it other then Jack and occasionally webster when his head is in the game.

In any event, this game was lost because portland played some shoddy perimeter defense and threw up a double-ton of bricks.

[trentsdad]

It was just one of those games, in the previous game where Priz sat on the bench I was also screaming at Nate to put him back in. Yesterday I could see why he might not be in there. With Priz in there, Howard could hang in the middle and block shots, with LA or channing, he would have to leave the middle. So I can see where you could keep him out.

Jack on the other hand is a turnover machine and I just don't see why he gets so many minutes in cruch time in comparison to Blake

[BigOrangeBalls]

-= original quote snipped =-



Is that what they teach in school these days? Opinions can most definitely be right or wrong. It's things like personal preferences that can be neither right nor wrong. As an example, if you told me that your preference is for chocolate ice cream, and mine was for vanilla, neither of us can be right or wrong; but if you told me that your opionion was that ice cream virtually never melts on a hot summer day, you'd be wrong regardless of whether it was your opinion or not.

In the context of a basketball forum, Mr. Odd is right. Opinions can't be right or wrong.

Your example is not an opinion. Ice cream melts on a hot day. (Although I'm sure a debate could be made on what a "hot day" is in scientific terms. ie temperature).

Talking about one player playing more in a hypothetical sense is absolutely an opinion, and can't be proven right or wrong.

An opinion is a person's ideas and thoughts towards something. It is an assessment, judgment or evaluation of something. An opinion is not a fact, because opinions are either not falsifiable, or the opinion has not been proven or verified. If it later becomes proven or verified, it is no longer an opinion, but a fact. Accordingly, all information on the web, from a surfer's perspective, is better described as opinion rather than fact.

In economics, philosophy, or other social sciences, analysis based on opinions is referred to as normative analysis (what ought to be), as opposed to positive analysis, which is based on scientific observation (what materially is). In mathematics and logic there can be no opinions about some claims, equations, and arguments, because often these kinds of statements are either valid or invalid, and true or false, and not open to contradicting opinions.

Historically, the distinction of proven knowledge and opinion was articulated by some Ancient Greek philosophers. Plato's analogy of the divided line is a well-known illustration of the distinction between knowledge and opinion.

[EFx2]

Yeah I have to agree with what most people have already said. It's no secret this team lives and dies by the jump shot. We are not an inside scoring team so if the jumpers are not falling it's a good chance we lose. We had a few little runs here and there and I think the team gave a great effort. It's a loss but the team never gave up so that to me is all that matters at this point of their development.

UGotThrilled mentioned how Roy would have so many more assists if Joel was offensively capable .. makes me more excited about the Roy/Oden combo next year. I see a lot of power dunks in our future

[southnc]

I still rather see a traditional rotation, whereby the starters play most of the 1st quarter, the end of the 2nd qtr, most of the 3rd qtr, and the end of the 4th qtr.

I'm not sure what Jack griped about to Nate earlier, but clearly he wants Blake's minutes. I also noticed several times when Blake was open and Jack won't get the ball to him. I mean Blake is top-10 3pt shooter in the NBA, no? And Sergio is playing so bad, he does not deserve any time, unless we have a huge lead - and even then, I'm not so sure.

Not playing your starters in the 4th and OT sends a very bad message to those player's confidence. Jack's had his moments, but I'd rather have Blake's steady play and good shooting (even though does hesitate a bit). Joel has really improved his play and can even hit those FTs much more consistently then last year. He deserves the time. By denying Blake, Joel, and even Webster to a certain extent, Nate is demonstrating very little confidence towards these key players. In essence, they are not true starters.

My 2 cents.

[Fitz303]

It was just one of those games, in the previous game where Priz sat on the bench I was also screaming at Nate to put him back in. Yesterday I could see why he might not be in there. With Priz in there, Howard could hang in the middle and block shots, with LA or channing, he would have to leave the middle. So I can see where you could keep him out.

Jack on the other hand is a turnover machine and I just don't see why he gets so many minutes in cruch time in comparison to Blake

He averages 1 more turnover per game than Blake in identical minutes. The reason that Jack plays in crunch time is because he can create offense off the dribble. If Blake is in there, its either Blake dribbling out the shot clock up top and then shooting a jumper off a pick, or Roy creating the offene and everybody else either sits on the outisde and shoots it up, or passes it to another person because they cant create anything themselves. Jack gives another slasher with Roy to be able to get into the lane and either create contact, or provide open jumpers for Outlaw, LMA, and Jones

Im quite content overall with most of the substitution patterns. Its hard to argue with whats been working. I was angry when Joel wasn't put in to guard Bosh, but that was about my only issue. Everyones doing well in their roles

Free Throw Attempts Per Game
Blake - 0.66
Jack - 3.1

[Yadadimean]

Look, I didn't really want to participate in another 'nate is good/nate is bad debate. And I don't want to attack other blazer fans who don't share my view on the coaching.

It was just the suggestion that Nate's substitution decisions in this game were the reason for the loss that got my attention. I think it's simply bogus for this game.

We had a debate over this on the Toronto game. I didn't agree that playing Joel more would have won that game...it's not provable, but at least an arguable case could be made for that view, in that game.

But this game?...no. Portland broke even with Toronto on offensive rebounds. Good rebounding teams will sometimes give up 12 offensive rebounds. Playing Joel another 8 or 9 minutes may have given the blazers one more offensive rebound and Orlando one less. At the possesion efficiency the teams were completing, it would have resulted in around a 1 point differential swing in Portland's favor. That wouldn't have been enough.

And it wasn't like Howard was tearing the blazers up inside. LMA did a quite credible job of defending Howard. Now, if he can just translate that inside defense to more inside offense, portland will be better.

And we know that Joel is no offensive threat. His fumble-fingered ball handling around the basket is highly frustrating. And forcing Howard to cover LMA when LMA was taking up high post position drew Howard toward the perimeter and away from the basket. Joel couldn't do that.

As far as Blake vs Jack, I don't think a case could be made either way. Neither one was having a great game. Nate (& the coaching staff) obviously decided that Blake was best matched up on Arroyo, and Jack was best matched up on Dooling. That makes sense considering the types of games those guys play.

For me, the biggest tactical complaint I would have would be portland's switching defense. They switch on almost all screens and picks. And that's one of the purposes for teams to use screens...to get mismatches. And Portland's defense obliged. And that's why we saw Turkoglu shooting 12' shots over blake, jack, and roy, and also grabbing 4 offensive rebounds over the same guys.

Portland needs to fight through screens more on the perimeter; but they don't have the players physical enough to do it other then Jack and occasionally webster when his head is in the game.

In any event, this game was lost because portland played some shoddy perimeter defense and threw up a double-ton of bricks.

Fair enough, and I agree with you as far as not wanting to get into that discussion and not attacking other fans. I don't mean to come off as "attacking" anyone. My general point is just that I think Nate knows better than anybody here how to run the team, which is why he's an NBA coach and we are fans.

[PDXKnight]

^^^Jack on a few occasions has been the reason we won games. It seems like everybody is on the "I HATE NATE AND JACK" bandwagons. I don't know where this is all coming from. Damn near everybody here was ecstatic when Nate came over from Seattle to coach and were happy to have Jack on the roster. Remember all the optimism about Jack when he came in? "Next Chauncey Billups," "Next Terry Porter" anyone? Sometimes a pg takes a while to develop, and to be perfectly honest, Jack fills a need on this team. Vocal and emotional leader. And while that is much needed, I want to pose a question to all of you. How many of you are nervous when Jack goes to the FT line? Not me. How many of you are not confident in Jack's ability to get to the FT line when it is needed? Jack is a good young combo guard and his game is a good contrast to Roy's pg game. Give Jack some time. How many of you couldn't wait to get rid of "Mr 4th Quarter" (Outlaw) 2 years ago?

And Jack has been the reason we've lost games on several occasions. Also, Jack isn't a true PG IMO. He doesn't play with a team-first mentality and while he's a nice player, there's a reason that he's essentially an SG with Roy and Blake running the point the majority of the time.

On outlaw, I've always been a fan of Travis but it's upsetting to see jack blow fast break after fast break and continue to jack the ball up in the halfcourt set. I honestly don't think Jarret Jack fits this team and think KP should consider trading him.

[Fitz303]

-= original quote snipped =-



And Jack has been the reason we've lost games on several occasions. Also, Jack isn't a true PG IMO. He doesn't play with a team-first mentality and while he's a nice player, there's a reason that he's essentially an SG with Roy and Blake running the point the majority of the time.

On outlaw, I've always been a fan of Travis but it's upsetting to see jack blow fast break after fast break and continue to jack the ball up in the halfcourt set. I honestly don't think Jarret Jack fits this team and think KP should consider trading him.

The last 2 fast breaks that I saw Jack run, ended up in alley oops to Aldridge. Jack is not your stereotypical pass first PG but he fits next to Roy well.. We dont need that kind of PG with Roy on the team. Im curious how you think he doesnt play team first basketball.. Jack actually handles the ball more than Blake throughout the game, so in that sense, he would actually be "more the PG than Blake."

Im a fan of both, and think the guard rotation is just fine the way it is.. I just think, as I have for a while, that Sergio is the odd man out and needs to be moved while he has some trade value

[mojomarc]

-= original quote snipped =-



The last 2 fast breaks that I saw Jack run, ended up in alley oops to Aldridge.

Then you only saw the first one he ran against Orlando. The second one was a disaster.

Jack has improved quite a bit in his fast break over the last five games, but he still makes some incredibly bad plays.

[Fitz303]

-= original quote snipped =-



Then you only saw the first one he ran against Orlando. The second one was a disaster.

Jack has improved quite a bit in his fast break over the last five games, but he still makes some incredibly bad plays.

I actually missed most of the game last night.. I saw the pass to Aldridge against Miami on the break as well.. I agree though, that while he has improved, he is still by no means a great fast break PG. Hes still below average, but he has shown improvement in quite a few facets of his game this year.

[Mr Odd]

mojo - I thought personal preferences are opinions.

thefreedictionary.com

Opinion: A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof:
-

But that could be a opinion aswell!!

Just because a apple is called a apple doesnt make it a apple.
That kind of sums up how I view much of life.. .

[J~Rush]

mojo - I thought personal preferences are opinions.

thefreedictionary.com

Opinion: A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof:
-

But that could be a opinion aswell!!

Just because a apple is called a apple doesnt make it a apple.
That kind of sums up how I view much of life.. .

Nothing personal, but .

[Mr Odd]

-= original quote snipped =-





Nothing personal, but .

I know.. .

Life is perception.

[mojomarc]

I do believe Mr. Odd lives by the philosophy that life is an illusion, so you might as well make it a good one.

[Mr Odd]

I do believe Mr. Odd lives by the philosophy that life is an illusion, so you might as well make it a good one.

Close enough!!


Just remember.. .I believe in swordfish. dead milkmen

[Yadadimean]

dead milkmen???

[Mr Odd]

dead milkmen???

It was a band.

Mojo knows of them, thats why I quoted that to him
aswell as it tied into the philosophy topic, kinda.. .

I do believe Mr. Odd lives by the philosophy that life is an illusion, so you might as well make it a good one.

The Matrix has you.

Follow the white rabbit.

[mojomarc]

dead milkmen???

The other day I was driving Mr. Odd in my bitchin' Camaro down to Zipperheads for a breakfast of filet of sole, but instead Odd was chewing his shirt--eating his paisley, as it were. Afterwards, I took him to the zoo where we met a punk rock girl who told us that she would create an instant dance song. But then again, Odd will dance to anything.

[/end]