Dame is coming back to Portland!!!

[BlazersBroncos]

Ya, both narratives are correct. Dame didnt really show a lost step last season per all raw and advanced metrics (Hell, even on defense he posted his 8th best DRTG and 5th best DBPM - out of 13 seasons - clearly middle of the pack career wise). At the same time, coming off a Achilles going into age 36 season is a tall order to adjust to.

I think Dame can come back and contribute - I am wary on him being a 30+ mpg starting type, but I do think he can be an elite 6th man. I expect a sort of post Achilles Klay Thompson type but w/ better FTr (Albeit likely never as good as he was, maybe in the low .30 FTr range rather than high .30 / low .40 range) and more playmaking.

Realistically given the age of Holiday and Dame + likely games missed there might be room for all 4 of Scoot, Sharpe, Jrue and Dame in our G rotation. Holiday would have to mostly play / defend the SG spot but its not crazy to envision it works.

[zzaj]

It never made sense, but whatever its a done deal. To my eyes he seemed to have lost a step last year, and what happens if he comes back 65% next year. Chauncey says he will be the highest paid assistant coach of all time this coming season. Maybe he enjoys it and realizes he may not have it anymore and move into a role like that? I dont want him to leave, but I hope his ego will allow him to say he does not have it anymore. And if he DOES than that's another scenario completely. If Scoot improves, Jrue is still Jrue and Dame comes back in good health thats going to be awkward.

A bit but... If both Jrue and Dame play 60 games we would be lucky. There will be plenty of time for Scoot (opinion). I think the ego that needs to take a back seat is Scoot's (and that is really tough when you are trying to get your next paycheck).

It may not just be about paycheck...we have to remember that Scoot will be entering his 4th season. Every player thinks about their legacy somewhat.

If a 21 year old Scoot averages something like 18/5/6 and shows that he is an NBA starter, and 36 year old Lillard can come back about the same or better? Things are going to get very awkward, very fast.

I have a sneaking suspicion the Blazers are going to prioritize Lillard over Scoot, which undermines a #3 pick and may not ultimately be a path to team success.

I guess I just have a hard time believing that, other than Lillard getting his flowers and giving the Fans something to root for, the situation is going to turn out well.

[Case2012]

Dame will start. Regardless of logic, Dame will start unless he's basically a cripple but i have zero doubt he won't be a 20+ 6 and 4 guy like he's always been and probably will be until he's forced to the bench or asks to come off. What will probably happen is he'll still be a starter until he retires but he'll only play 50-60 games a year.

[zzaj]

Dame will start. Regardless of logic, Dame will start unless he's basically a cripple but i have zero doubt he won't be a 20+ 6 and 4 guy like he's always been and probably will be until he's forced to the bench or asks to come off. What will probably happen is he'll still be a starter until he retires but he'll only play 50-60 games a year.

Which means the Blazers will end up forced to trade Scoot. And then they are back to square one at the PG position for the franchise, with a declining 36-37 year old at the helm.

I think fans are kidding themselves if they think it’s a positive from all angles. I struggle to even find a best possible outcome.

[Wizenheimer]

Dame will start. Regardless of logic, Dame will start unless he's basically a cripple but i have zero doubt he won't be a 20+ 6 and 4 guy like he's always been and probably will be until he's forced to the bench or asks to come off. What will probably happen is he'll still be a starter until he retires but he'll only play 50-60 games a year.

Which means the Blazers will end up forced to trade Scoot. And then they are back to square one at the PG position for the franchise, with a declining 36-37 year old at the helm.

I think fans are kidding themselves if they think it’s a positive from all angles. I struggle to even find a best possible outcome.

you know, it is possible that the Blazer F.O. of Cronin/Schmitz have already decided that Scoot's upside ceiling is well below where it was hyped to be at the draft. I don't think a front office will see their for-sure PGOTF and still go out and add 2 more veteran PG's. At the very least, that hedging a bet

Scoot was better last season that his rookie season, but he wasn't efficient as a shooter or playmaker. I think he'll get better but all those projections of him as the next Rose or Westbrook seem way off at this point

[Dame Lizard]

Dame will start. Regardless of logic, Dame will start unless he's basically a cripple but i have zero doubt he won't be a 20+ 6 and 4 guy like he's always been and probably will be until he's forced to the bench or asks to come off. What will probably happen is he'll still be a starter until he retires but he'll only play 50-60 games a year.

Which means the Blazers will end up forced to trade Scoot. And then they are back to square one at the PG position for the franchise, with a declining 36-37 year old at the helm.

I think fans are kidding themselves if they think it’s a positive from all angles. I struggle to even find a best possible outcome.

I don't think we need to get so negative this early on. If Scoot takes a big step forward plans may change.

Similarly, if Scoot doesn't take a big step forward then it's not as big of a deal.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

Dame will start. Regardless of logic, Dame will start unless he's basically a cripple but i have zero doubt he won't be a 20+ 6 and 4 guy like he's always been and probably will be until he's forced to the bench or asks to come off. What will probably happen is he'll still be a starter until he retires but he'll only play 50-60 games a year.

Which means the Blazers will end up forced to trade Scoot. And then they are back to square one at the PG position for the franchise, with a declining 36-37 year old at the helm.

I think fans are kidding themselves if they think it’s a positive from all angles. I struggle to even find a best possible outcome.

you know, it is possible that the Blazer F.O. of Cronin/Schmitz have already decided that Scoot's upside ceiling is well below where it was hyped to be at the draft. I don't think a front office will see their for-sure PGOTF and still go out and add 2 more veteran PG's. At the very least, that hedging a bet

Scoot was better last season that his rookie season, but he wasn't efficient as a shooter or playmaker. I think he'll get better but all those projections of him as the next Rose or Westbrook seem way off at this point

I agree, I think it looks a bit like they are hedging their bets on Scoot, and well if he isn't going to be that player then better to decide that sooner rather than later. I don't think we should give up on him entirely but he isn't looking like that top tier type of player so far so making him earn his minutes isn't the worst thing for him.

I do think the Holiday and Dame moves weren't really tied together though. IIRC we traded for Holiday before Dame was available. Holiday was the hedge but I think signing Dame was more opportunistic than part of some larger strategy.

[zzaj]

Dame will start. Regardless of logic, Dame will start unless he's basically a cripple but i have zero doubt he won't be a 20+ 6 and 4 guy like he's always been and probably will be until he's forced to the bench or asks to come off. What will probably happen is he'll still be a starter until he retires but he'll only play 50-60 games a year.

Which means the Blazers will end up forced to trade Scoot. And then they are back to square one at the PG position for the franchise, with a declining 36-37 year old at the helm.

I think fans are kidding themselves if they think it’s a positive from all angles. I struggle to even find a best possible outcome.

I don't think we need to get so negative this early on. If Scoot takes a big step forward plans may change.

Similarly, if Scoot doesn't take a big step forward then it's not as big of a deal.

Not trying to be negative…just pointing out that the more I let my fandom for Lillard take a back seat and look at it from a basketball decision making perspective, the more I don’t see any best case scenario.

If both players end up good then—I keep hearing “that’s a good problem to have”—but it’s still a problem. You can’t trade Lillard so you have to trade Scoot, leaving the PG position unclear for a (hopefully) competitive team moving forward.

Negative or not, signing a what will be 36 year old PG coming off of a year of not playing basketball because of an achilles, who expects to start and deserves to start because he’s the franchise’s best PG ever, will most likely have some downside.

I do agree that the additions of Jrue and Lillard can be seen as a hedge on both Scoot and Sharpe, as well as insurance on a commitment to competitive basketball. And I do think Lillard acts as a tiny bit of insurance in keeping the Blazers in PDX (even if I’m convinced there’s less than a 10% they’re going anywhere)

I still hold the view that the Blazers fast-forwarded a rebuild too quickly, and are operating out of a false premise based on a shallow win streak. Who are they building around? Deni? His contract dictates he might not even be here in 4 years. Camara? Is he even a third offensive option on a good team? Scoot? The best PG in franchise history is going to have a say about that. The “collective”? How many times has that worked in the last 40 years?

Okay, sorry for the rant all! Even though it’s going to be a fun upcoming season, I guess I don’t share a lot of the optimism in terms of direction of the franchise as a lot of fans!

[oldfishermen]

Every situation in the NBA is temporary. So when the Blazers can sign an all-star for pennys on the dollar, and not give up any assets. Enjoy it fully, while the good times last.

[BlazersBroncos]

I agree that Dame was simply being opportunistic. You have a chance to get Dame at even 65% of pre-Achilles on a MLE deal and thats a steal. Brings fan interest up, gets national exposure for the team, etc. Holiday was the planned hedge for Scoot.

FWIW - if you slide Sharpe into some SF minutes, assume the old guys are entering 'under 30mpg' territory and there is a path to the team running with all 4 guards w/o a big time crunch - Grant would be the biggest loser in MPG IMO (Relying on minutes behind Deni and few at SF) -

G - Scoot Henderon (30) / Damian Lillard (18)
G - Shadeon Sharpe (15) / Jrue Holiday (24) / Damian Lillard (9)
F - Toumani Camara (30) / Shadeon Sharpe (15) / Jerami Grant (3)

[dckingsfan]

Every situation in the NBA is temporary. So when the Blazers can sign an all-star for pennys on the dollar, and not give up any assets. Enjoy it fully, while the good times last.

What puts a bit of a damper on it for me is that they could have signed a PF and then given Dame the rest. They would just have had to move a bit quicker.

[Norm2953]

Nobody knows how much of Dame's game will be left, assuming he is able to return next fall.

Until then, Scoot has all of 2025-6 to prove himself on the court. We'll all know next summer;
in a period of likely new ownership who will have their own thoughts on what the make up of
the team should look like.

[Wizenheimer]

Not trying to be negative

maybe you're like me...being negative is effortless; don't have to try; natural talent

…just pointing out that the more I let my fandom for Lillard take a back seat and look at it from a basketball decision making perspective, the more I don’t see any best case scenario.

If both players end up good then—I keep hearing “that’s a good problem to have”—but it’s still a problem. You can’t trade Lillard so you have to trade Scoot, leaving the PG position unclear for a (hopefully) competitive team moving forward.

Negative or not, signing a what will be 36 year old PG coming off of a year of not playing basketball because of an achilles, who expects to start and deserves to start because he’s the franchise’s best PG ever, will most likely have some downside.

I do agree that the additions of Jrue and Lillard can be seen as a hedge on both Scoot and Sharpe, as well as insurance on a commitment to competitive basketball. And I do think Lillard acts as a tiny bit of insurance in keeping the Blazers in PDX (even if I’m convinced there’s less than a 10% they’re going anywhere)

I have always been a big fan of Dame. He was about the only Blazer thing worth watching his last few years in Portland, and the Olshey era wasted his talent. Sure, he was paid extremely well but the franchise never once made an honest effort to build a contender around him. Management just coasted along, taking no substantial risks while collecting paychecks off of Dame's talent

but yeah, the acquisition of both Jrue and Dame do reflect a bit poorly on how the FO views Scoot's talents. Teams convinced their long term PG is definitely on the roster would not add TWO veteran PG's. Unless management was a bit unstable of course

I still hold the view that the Blazers fast-forwarded a rebuild too quickly, and are operating out of a false premise based on a shallow win streak. Who are they building around? Deni? His contract dictates he might not even be here in 4 years. Camara? Is he even a third offensive option on a good team? Scoot? The best PG in franchise history is going to have a say about that. The “collective”? How many times has that worked in the last 40 years?

Okay, sorry for the rant all! Even though it’s going to be a fun upcoming season, I guess I don’t share a lot of the optimism in terms of direction of the franchise as a lot of fans!

I agree with this and said so during last season. What I was seeing and reading about from Blazer management was a total change of direction based upon that winning streak. And lets be real about that streak. It was not some 15 or 16 game win streak as part of a stretch of wining 23 of 30 games. It was simply a streak when the Blazers won 10 of 11 games. 8 of 11 of those games were at home. Prior to that streak, in the previous 10 games Portland was 2-8. Immediately after the streak the Blazers lost 4 in a row. In other words, over a 25 game stretch, the Blazers went 12-13.

yet that all seemed to convince the front office that tanking was over and it was "winning time". Take away that streak and Portland was 26-45; a .366 winning percentage that projects to a 30-52 record. This is what the FO believes shows a team ready for the playoffs? I said at the time I was worried the current front office would misinterpret that winning streak and end up making a trajectory altering mistake. That they would double down on a pretty weak hand because of a relatively short 'feel good' stretch of basketball. I compared to to the 2016 playoffs when the rebooted Blazer team after the Aldridge era beat an injury riddled Clippers team. Olshey so wildly misinterpreted that 'feel-good' series that he went on that stupid idiot ridiculous dumb-as-hell spending spree in 2016. 340M in contracts to role players; not an all-star in sight

and I suspect Cronin may be making a similar mistake. To have a shot in the playoffs a team needs a superstar...an all-NBA player likely supported by at least one all-star. I'm not even sure Portland has a future all-star on the roster; I'd bet the farm there are no all-NBA talents there

so yeah, I think Cronin may have been a bit desperate for validation and that tiny little winning streak fit the bill. I'm not anywhere close to as anti-Cronin as I was anti-Olshey. But I think Cronin has given me about as many reasons to doubt him as reasons to believe in him. I'm more interested in the coming season than I have been for years, and the needle on my skeptic-meter is below the cynical line for the first time in years. But not very far below

[Wizenheimer]

I agree, I think it looks a bit like they are hedging their bets on Scoot, and well if he isn't going to be that player then better to decide that sooner rather than later. I don't think we should give up on him entirely but he isn't looking like that top tier type of player so far so making him earn his minutes isn't the worst thing for him.

I do think the Holiday and Dame moves weren't really tied together though. IIRC we traded for Holiday before Dame was available. Holiday was the hedge but I think signing Dame was more opportunistic than part of some larger strategy.

yeah...all that seems quite possible

but...my hunch is if the timing had been reversed and Dame became available before Jrue, the Blazers would have still done both deals. I think the Jrue trade was about two things and one of them was just dumping Simons and ending the decade of dwarf no-defense tweener-guards. It was addition by subtraction. And the 2nd thing, which I'm not sold on at all, is that the Blazer want to shoot for the playoffs and Jrue is a winning type player while Simons was the opposite

and while it's probably not the case, it could be that the front office views Jrue as a much more tradable asset than Simons on an expiring contract at a time that no-defense undersized chuck-first combo guards have negative value in the league

[Walton1one]

I compared to to the 2016 playoffs when the rebooted Blazer team after the Aldridge era beat an injury riddled Clippers team. Olshey so wildly misinterpreted that 'feel-good' series that he went on that stupid idiot ridiculous dumb-as-hell spending spree in 2016. 340M in contracts to role players; not an all-star in sight

and I suspect Cronin may be making a similar mistake.

I mean it is not really a surprise at this point though, is it? Cronin is just an extension of the Olshey regime. Olshey came to POR in 2012, was gifted Damian Lillard. Under Olshey, Cronin was promoted to director of player personnel & Asst GM. Both of these guys have had their fingerprints on this franchise for way too long with little\nothing to show for it.

After Allen died in 2018, Olshey was allowed to run rampant, then was fired & Bert Kolde suddenly is back in the limelight with Cronin reporting to him weekly. Drexler was right, this team is cursed until new ownership comes in and hopefully rights the ship.

The Olshey\Cronin philosophy has not worked, Olshey over comitted in 2017 as you correctly stated and 2 years later they were in the sewer again and have been ever since and now EIGHT years later, they are committing the same mistakes again. Same leadership philosophies, same results....

[Walton1one]

Which means the Blazers will end up forced to trade Scoot. And then they are back to square one at the PG position for the franchise, with a declining 36-37 year old at the helm.

I think fans are kidding themselves if they think it’s a positive from all angles. I struggle to even find a best possible outcome.

I don't think we need to get so negative this early on. If Scoot takes a big step forward plans may change.

Similarly, if Scoot doesn't take a big step forward then it's not as big of a deal.

Not trying to be negative…just pointing out that the more I let my fandom for Lillard take a back seat and look at it from a basketball decision making perspective, the more I don’t see any best case scenario.

If both players end up good then—I keep hearing “that’s a good problem to have”—but it’s still a problem. You can’t trade Lillard so you have to trade Scoot, leaving the PG position unclear for a (hopefully) competitive team moving forward.

Negative or not, signing a what will be 36 year old PG coming off of a year of not playing basketball because of an achilles, who expects to start and deserves to start because he’s the franchise’s best PG ever, will most likely have some downside.

I do agree that the additions of Jrue and Lillard can be seen as a hedge on both Scoot and Sharpe, as well as insurance on a commitment to competitive basketball. And I do think Lillard acts as a tiny bit of insurance in keeping the Blazers in PDX (even if I’m convinced there’s less than a 10% they’re going anywhere)

I still hold the view that the Blazers fast-forwarded a rebuild too quickly, and are operating out of a false premise based on a shallow win streak. Who are they building around? Deni? His contract dictates he might not even be here in 4 years. Camara? Is he even a third offensive option on a good team? Scoot? The best PG in franchise history is going to have a say about that. The “collective”? How many times has that worked in the last 40 years?

Okay, sorry for the rant all! Even though it’s going to be a fun upcoming season, I guess I don’t share a lot of the optimism in terms of direction of the franchise as a lot of fans!

Just wanted to say very good post, you are just being realistic.

I know some people take that as being "negative" but when you listen to NBA media\analysts & people w\o "fan stakes" in this team, look back on how the team has performed over the last 7+ years since the WC finals flame out (signs were there beforehand) it is not out of line at all to question the direction (or lack there of) of this team under this front office.

Trading for Jrue, resigning Dame these are moves a team makes to push themselves over that last hill, not moves that teams who have not sniffed .500, or made a play in the past 5 years makes. Shortsighted, it is the consistent theme of this front office for the past FOURTEEN years (10 under Olshey, 4 under Cronin. Does no one ever wonder why Olshey never got another GM job? Or will they wonder why Cronin eventually shares that same fate?

We should be (and I am) excited about DC\Deni\Camara and excited to hopefully see what growth Sharpe & Scoot can have in Y4\Y3 if given the proper runway, but at the back of at all should be the realization that this is a team stuck in the same time loop and even Dame coming back in 26' is not going to suddenly elevate this team to greatness, when he could not do that in MIL playing next to one of the best players in the league currently (and in NBA history).

[zzaj]

I agree, I think it looks a bit like they are hedging their bets on Scoot, and well if he isn't going to be that player then better to decide that sooner rather than later. I don't think we should give up on him entirely but he isn't looking like that top tier type of player so far so making him earn his minutes isn't the worst thing for him.

I do think the Holiday and Dame moves weren't really tied together though. IIRC we traded for Holiday before Dame was available. Holiday was the hedge but I think signing Dame was more opportunistic than part of some larger strategy.

yeah...all that seems quite possible

but...my hunch is if the timing had been reversed and Dame became available before Jrue, the Blazers would have still done both deals. I think the Jrue trade was about two things and one of them was just dumping Simons and ending the decade of dwarf no-defense tweener-guards. It was addition by subtraction. And the 2nd thing, which I'm not sold on at all, is that the Blazer want to shoot for the playoffs and Jrue is a winning type player while Simons was the opposite

and while it's probably not the case, it could be that the front office views Jrue as a much more tradable asset than Simons on an expiring contract at a time that no-defense undersized chuck-first combo guards have negative value in the league

In addition to what you mentioned, IMHO Jrue was a "compete now" hedge for both Simons and Scoot. I honestly think that the Blazers are bringing Lillard back for fans/ticket sales primarily...I think that they (rightfully) view any good basketball from him as a bonus.

I'm of course hopeful that Lillard gets back to a good percentage of his pre-injury form, but there are no guarantees. He may never play again, or he could be 95%...it's just impossible to tell. My bet would be that he's in that 60-80% range, however.

I admittedly only watched a little of Lillard with Milwaukie, but what I saw was slightly less burst off the dribble and an offense that didn't cater around his self creation. If he does come back a good percentage of his former self, his playing experience with Giannis might actually be a boon--as Giannis and Deni both play in a similar way at times.

[DusterBuster]

I agree, I think it looks a bit like they are hedging their bets on Scoot, and well if he isn't going to be that player then better to decide that sooner rather than later. I don't think we should give up on him entirely but he isn't looking like that top tier type of player so far so making him earn his minutes isn't the worst thing for him.

I do think the Holiday and Dame moves weren't really tied together though. IIRC we traded for Holiday before Dame was available. Holiday was the hedge but I think signing Dame was more opportunistic than part of some larger strategy.

yeah...all that seems quite possible

but...my hunch is if the timing had been reversed and Dame became available before Jrue, the Blazers would have still done both deals. I think the Jrue trade was about two things and one of them was just dumping Simons and ending the decade of dwarf no-defense tweener-guards. It was addition by subtraction. And the 2nd thing, which I'm not sold on at all, is that the Blazer want to shoot for the playoffs and Jrue is a winning type player while Simons was the opposite

and while it's probably not the case, it could be that the front office views Jrue as a much more tradable asset than Simons on an expiring contract at a time that no-defense undersized chuck-first combo guards have negative value in the league

In addition to what you mentioned, IMHO Jrue was a "compete now" hedge for both Simons and Scoot. I honestly think that the Blazers are bringing Lillard back for fans/ticket sales primarily...I think that they (rightfully) view any good basketball from him as a bonus.

I'm of course hopeful that Lillard gets back to a good percentage of his pre-injury form, but there are no guarantees. He may never play again, or he could be 95%...it's just impossible to tell. My bet would be that he's in that 60-80% range, however.

I admittedly only watched a little of Lillard with Milwaukie, but what I saw was slightly less burst off the dribble and an offense that didn't cater around his self creation. If he does come back a good percentage of his former self, his playing experience with Giannis might actually be a boon--as Giannis and Deni both play in a similar way at times.

It sucks it's gonna take so long to see Lillard again on the court. I'm so curious to see what he's going to look like when he's back.

There's plenty of reasons to be totally skeptical about what's to come with Dame, but also a lot that could be really fun. I'm more in line, I think 60-80%, I think he's gonna struggle getting to the rim a lot more than he used to. I'm also not sure if he will have the lift for his deep 3's anymore, but his shooting mechanics should be still solid (if slightly rusty for game shape). If the rest of the team does a good job getting him open shots, I still think he will be well worth his contract and provide some great highlights.

I'm also really curious to see how this year goes as far as leaning into the assistant coaching-esque role. If he really takes to that this season, and then his year back is just really rough where even he thinks its close to hanging it up, I wouldn't be surprised if he slides into an assistant coaching role with the team or maybe management.

[JRoy]

Dame will start. Regardless of logic, Dame will start unless he's basically a cripple but i have zero doubt he won't be a 20+ 6 and 4 guy like he's always been and probably will be until he's forced to the bench or asks to come off. What will probably happen is he'll still be a starter until he retires but he'll only play 50-60 games a year.

Which means the Blazers will end up forced to trade Scoot. And then they are back to square one at the PG position for the franchise, with a declining 36-37 year old at the helm.

I think fans are kidding themselves if they think it’s a positive from all angles. I struggle to even find a best possible outcome.

you know, it is possible that the Blazer F.O. of Cronin/Schmitz have already decided that Scoot's upside ceiling is well below where it was hyped to be at the draft. I don't think a front office will see their for-sure PGOTF and still go out and add 2 more veteran PG's. At the very least, that hedging a bet

Scoot was better last season that his rookie season, but he wasn't efficient as a shooter or playmaker. I think he'll get better but all those projections of him as the next Rose or Westbrook seem way off at this point

It’s put up or shut up time for Scoot. I am not a believer.

[BlazersBroncos]

I agree with the mostly sobering takes in this discussion. That being said - I strongly disagree that Cronin is anywhere near as bad a GM as NO. I dont think its remotely close.

Ya, teams need superstars to compete. But your more likely to be in a UTA type situation with the smoothed lotto odds than strike gold like DAL. The ownership was simply never willing to punt multiple seasons for a wish on a star. And I think that is the right move given the whispers on a potential sale and relocation. Its much easier to move a going nowhere tanking team than a team that is playing semi-meaningful basketball.

We wont win a chip but there is more to the game than that. This will be a fun team, and this is the most anticipated year of Blazers basketball for me since the year we went on the WC run.