Roy Hibbert - Indy says they will match/offer same terms.

BlazersRizing · Post #321 » by **BlazersRizing** » Wed Jul 4, 2012 5:03 pm

so the Hornets have already said they will match Gordon's max offer from the Suns less than one day later...

yet the Pacers are still silent on the Hibbert front? hmmm... ??

GreenRiddler · Post #322 » by **GreenRiddler** » Wed Jul 4, 2012 5:08 pm

BlazersRizing wrote:so the Hornets have already said they will match Gordon's max offer from the Suns less than one day later...

yet the Pacers are still silent on the Hibbert front? hmmm... ??

I would look at July 8, that's usually when UFA's agree in principle to a contract, if Kaman is Pacer on the 8-9 of July , then Hibbert is ours if not, I don't know. Also Alex Kennedy is reporting that the George Hill deal is 40mill.

Post #323 » by **DeBlazerRiddem** » Wed Jul 4, 2012 5:12 pm

GreenRiddler wrote:Dude? Do you seriously think we will give Dragic 40+ mill if we drafted Lillard? Come on now....

But if Lillard is a SG in a PG's body, and Dragic is a PG in a SG's body (not really, but close), why couldn't they exist as a back-court together? Especially with Wes off the bench, both of them would see plenty of time at the point with the ball in their hands.

I dunno, maybe I am thinking too far outside the box. I like the idea the more I think about it though.

GreenRiddler · Post #324 » by **GreenRiddler** » Wed Jul 4, 2012 5:17 pm

DeBlazerRiddem wrote:
GreenRiddler wrote:Dude? Do you seriously think we will give Dragic 40+ mill if we drafted Lillard? Come on now....

But if Lillard is a SG in a PG's body, and Dragic is a PG in a SG's body (not really, but close), why couldn't they exist as a back-court together? Especially with Wes off the bench, both of them would see plenty of time at the point with the ball in their hands.

I dunno, maybe I am thinking too far outside the box. I like the idea the more I think about it though.

Lillard is not a SG in a PG body, from what I have seen and heard, and it just doesn't make sense to get a PG for 40+mill when your GM calls your #6 pick your franchise PG. Dragic wants to start @ the point and our drafting of Lillard has made it pretty clear that we are no longer in the running for him.

GreenRiddler · Post #325 » by **GreenRiddler** » Wed Jul 4, 2012 5:30 pm

If Indy matches Hibbert and adds no FAs, salary cap would be $56mill. with a roster of;

Granger
West
Hibbert
G-Hill (per Alex Kennedy today 5yr$40mill)
Hansbrough
D-Jones
Paul George
Darren Collision
Jeff Pendergraph
Lance Stephenson

I am starting to believe...

Post #326 » by **DeBlazerRiddem** » Wed Jul 4, 2012 5:32 pm

Again, maybe I am thinking too far outside the box. Or maybe you are stuck with a rigid notion of position.

Lillard has not proven he is a true PG - everything he did in college suggested he is a SG in a PG's body. Because of this, I keep going off on tangents about how we might need an unconventional lineup to take advantage of his strengths and skills, rather than asking him to change his game. If he can prove he is as true a PG as Chris Paul, then sure we can go more conventional, but if he is more similar to Rose or Westbrook (stylistically not quality) then I think we need to get our heads out of the box. A player like Harden would be ideal, but Dragic might be pretty good too.

They would both be our starting guards. They would both get to play on ball and be asked to play off ball. Both would have the chance to score and both would be able to set up the offense. A team wouldn't be able to shut down one of them, because the other is just as capable.

I actually don't think having two point guards starting for you is all that bad. Especially if one of them is big enough and good enough on defense to check SG's. Also having Matthews off the bench (and Batum next to them) would help with any defensive questions.

Look at what Minnesota did with Rubio and Ridnour, a lineup which gave them a lot of success.

PToastMan · Post #327 » by **PToastMan** » Wed Jul 4, 2012 5:42 pm

DeBlazerRiddem wrote:Again, maybe I am thinking too far outside the box. Or maybe you are stuck with a rigid notion of position.

Lillard has not proven he is a true PG - everything he did in college suggested he is a SG in a PG's body. Because of this, I keep going off on tangents about how we might need an unconventional lineup to take advantage of his strengths and skills, rather than asking him to change his game. If he can prove he is as true a PG as Chris Paul, then sure we can go more conventional, but if he is more similar to Rose or Westbrook (stylistically not quality) then I think we need to get our heads out of the box. A player like Harden would be ideal, but Dragic might be pretty good too.

They would both be our starting guards. They would both get to play on ball and be asked to play off ball. Both would have the chance to score and both would be able to set up the offense. A team wouldn't be able to shut down one of them, because the other is just as capable.

I actually don't think having two point guards starting for you is all that bad. Especially if one of them is big enough and good enough on defense to check SG's. Also having Matthews off the bench (and Batum next to them) would help with any defensive questions.

Look at what Minnesota did with Rubio and Ridnour, a lineup which gave them a lot of success.

The assumption that "everything he did in college suggested he is a SG in a PG's body. " is incorrect.

Did he score a lot? Yes, his teammates were not close to his level.

However, he also had extremely low turnover rate, excellent handles, quick decision making skills (alone, this sets him above bayless), solid passing, and has shown to be highly unselfish.

Edit - Not only all that, but his scoring was incredibly efficient. He isn't a chucker by any means, and really isn't a shooting guard naturally at all.

Post #328 » by **DeBlazerRiddem** » Wed Jul 4, 2012 5:52 pm

Lillard had a lower "pure point rating" than Waiters....

Not to mention the lowest of any PG in the draft. He is less of a point guard than any of Marshall, Machado or Teague.

PToastMan · Post #329 » by **PToastMan** » Wed Jul 4, 2012 5:55 pm

DeBlazerRiddem wrote:Lillard had a lower "pure point rating" than Waiters....

Which, in the context of Lillard's circumstances, I believe is a poor indicator.

Post #330 » by **DeBlazerRiddem** » Wed Jul 4, 2012 5:58 pm

PToastMan wrote:
DeBlazerRiddem wrote:Lillard had a lower "pure point rating" than Waiters....

Which, in the context of Lillard's circumstances, I believe is a poor indicator.

Well, it still means that in college, he played more like a SG in a PG's body.

Maybe you have hope that he translates as a pure point guard, but that is not what he showed in college. That is not what I am expecting him to be.

GeraldWallace3 · Post #331 » by **GeraldWallace3** » Wed Jul 4, 2012 6:02 pm

He'll be a poor man's D. Rose, he'll be a scorer first, but he will always get his teammates involved

PToastMan · Post #332 » by **PToastMan** » Wed Jul 4, 2012 6:04 pm

DeBlazerRiddem wrote:

Maybe you have hope that he translates as a pure point guard, but that is not what he showed in college. That is not what I am expecting him to be.

I don't expect him to be a Stockton/Kidd/Marshall type of point, no. But I think the evidence points to him being a less athletic/dynamic, better shooting Rose type of pg. Someone who can initiate the offense while still being a legitimate scoring threat.

My point is that he has shown real point guard skills, and his ability to score in college as needed does not diminish those.

People like to make the Bayless comparison, but it really isn't there. They are very different players.

Post #333 » by **Moonbeam** » Wed Jul 4, 2012 10:58 pm

GreenRiddler wrote:Because signing a PG is so important when you have Lillard and Nolan Smith, while only having Myers Leonard and Kurt Thomas at C on the roster. Come on now....

I don't want to count on Nolan Smith for anything. I hope he's played his last game as a Blazer.

Meanwhile, Spencer Hawes is apparently staying in Philadelphia. I really hope we can get Hibbert now.

PDXKnight · Post #334 » by **PDXKnight** » Wed Jul 4, 2012 11:32 pm

GreenRiddler wrote:
Oden2 wrote:Well now Goran Dragic is available. If the Hibbert plan messes this up I just might get angry...

Houston has been unable to reach a free agent agreement with Goran Dragic.

The Rockets reportedly are ready to move on after negotiations failed earlier this week.

[url]Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/22 ... z1zflgDnVn
[/url]

Because signing a PG is so important when you have Lillard and Nolan Smith, while only having Myers Leonard and Kurt Thomas at C on the roster. Come on now....

I hated that draft pick. I don't think he'll be anything more than a fringe 7th or 8th man in his prime in the likes of Sebastian Telfair. So yes, I would offer Dragic 4/ 40. Also even if he does pan out, you're trusting a rookie PG to take you to the playoffs. How many rookie PG's have done that? Not many... The fatal flaw here is we're still in the predicament we were in before: we don't have a primary ball handler. Without that individual, Portland could very well wast Aldridge's career. Dragic is a better overall player than Hibbert imo. Lillard should have been the number 10 pick or lower, frankly I think he winds up as the 20th best player in this draft.

Post #335 » by **mojomarc** » Thu Jul 5, 2012 1:44 am

There is not a chance on this planet that Dragic will be offered a 4/40 deal for us. That would be tantamount to Olshey starting his own version of the "fire Olshey" thread. He would basically be saying "yeah, we haven't seen him play, but after we drafted him we have now gone back and looked over the film again. No way this kid can play point for us, so we're going to now admit our mistake by overpaying for a player who has only demonstrated value over about 35 games in his career."

Basically, for us to make an offer for Dragic Olshey would have to be fired after less than a month of work and replaced by you. I suppose it could happen, but I like my chances at winning Powerball a lot better.

PDXKnight · Post #336 » by **PDXKnight** » Thu Jul 5, 2012 3:14 am

mojomarc wrote:There is not a chance on this planet that Dragic will be offered a 4/40 deal for us. That would be tantamount to Olshey starting his own version of the "fire Olshey" thread. He would basically be saying "yeah, we haven't seen him play, but after we drafted him we have now gone back and looked over the film again. No way this kid can play point for us, so we're going to now admit our mistake by overpaying for a player who has only demonstrated value over about 35 games in his career."

Basically, for us to make an offer for Dragic Olshey would have to be fired after less than a month of work and replaced by you. I suppose it could happen, but I like my chances at winning Powerball a lot better.

Not necessarily. Plenty of teams sign more established players to fill a position that a player that they just drafted fills. Its a matter of if Olshey thinks LIllard is ready to play PG this season. Frankly I have my doubts about any rookie PG starting who isn't a Chris Paul, John Wall, or Derrick Rose type pick.

Also its worth bringing up that Olshey signed Billups off of waivers after he had Chris Paul so a 2 PG lineup isn't out of the question for him. Considering that Lillard is 6' 3" and has been labelled an SG type by some, I don't think its out of the question to try him there a bit.

Post #337 » by **mojomarc** » Thu Jul 5, 2012 3:35 am

Oden2 wrote:Not necessarily. Plenty of teams sign more established players to fill a position that a player that they just drafted fills. Its a matter of if Olshey thinks LIllard is ready to play PG this season. Frankly I have my doubts about any rookie PG starting who isn't a Chris Paul, John Wall, or Derrick Rose type pick.

Signing Dragic for the price he's asking for isn't a "you don't think Lillard can start this season" move. It's an "you don't think Lillard will be able to start during the entire length of his rookie contract" move. I don't think for a second Olshey is thinking that way.

Also its worth bringing up that Olshey signed Billups off of waivers after he had Chris Paul so a 2 PG lineup isn't out of the question for him. Considering that Lillard is 6' 3" and has been labelled an SG type by some, I don't think its out of the question to try him there a bit.

Billups was signed knowing he was nothing but a backup and an insurance contract in case Paul were injured yet again. Billups was also only signed to a one year deal. Neither of those scenarios fit for Dragic.

King d · Post #338 » by **King d** » Thu Jul 5, 2012 3:35 am

Oden2 wrote:I hated that draft pick. I don't think he'll be anything more than a fringe 7th or 8th man in his prime in the likes of Sebastian Telfair. So yes, I would offer Dragic 4/ 40. Also even if he does pan out, you're trusting a rookie PG to take you to the playoffs. How many rookie PG's have done that? Not many... The fatal flaw here is we're still in the predicament we were in before: we don't have a primary ball handler. Without that individual, Portland could very well wast Aldridge's career. Dragic is a better overall player than Hibbert imo. Lillard should have been the number 10 pick or lower, frankly I think he winds up as the 20th best player in this draft.

Lillard = Sebastian Telfair? Dragic better player than a 7'2 allstar center who is a monster at protecting the rim besides other things?

Come on son...

GeraldWallace3 · Post #339 » by **GeraldWallace3** » Thu Jul 5, 2012 4:01 am

Don't get the Lillard hate. He has the makings of a future star.

JasonStern · Post #340 » by **JasonStern** » Thu Jul 5, 2012 4:18 am

GeraldWallace3 wrote:Don't get the Lillard hate. He has the makings of a future star.

or a solid 6th man. regardless, you don't pass on the opportunity to sign a young all-star center if you can. while some may think hibbert is an overpay as-is, I am just disappointed the blazers currently lack the pieces to get a sign and trade done now. if they did, they could be using their cap space to pursue additional free agents prior to batum's eventual offer and restricted free agent purgatory window.