Hoopsworld: Wark to PDX 75% chance of happening

[DusterBuster]

Very intriguing...and hondaaccord just landed himself on my ban list.

He did for me too! Mostly because of his terrible posts, but partly because of the fact that Honda Accords are terrible cars.

I also like his laughable claim that the many teams have won championships without an elite center.

Boston won 1 championship without an elite center. This was mostly due to the ridiculous trades they made in one year to get 3 all-star calibur players on the same team as they entered their decline years.

They were just 3 all-star caliber players, they were HOF caliber players.

Detroit won 1 championship without an elite center. Again this is a similar case to the Boston situation a lot of very talented players playing well together and many were former all-stars.

Back when Detroit won, Ben Wallace was an elite center. He was undersized, but the dude was a beast.

1 championship is not a ridiculously huge deal, obviously its great to get any championships but look at all the dynastys.

Lakers 3 championships with Shaq and 1 with Bynum and Pau
San Antonio 4 championships with Duncan

So yeah thats like 8 of the last 12 or so years of championships have been won with an elite Center or a big man.

The only man to truly defy this claim of don't need a big man is Michael Jordan.

As of now Jordan is infinitely better then Durant. Durant needs to prove a hell of a lot more to even get in the same conversation as Jordan.

It's sad that people are even putting Durant in the same conversation as Jordan right now.

Since I'm one of these "doomsayers" I will respond. I do agree that it's likely going overboard by saying that we would plunge back into the depths of Jailblazerdom just because Wark is back. However, if you are a recovering alcoholic, is it a good idea to start hanging out at the bar again with an old drinking buddy? It may not necessarily make you start drinking again, but it does increase the chance pretty dramatically, and it's certainly not going to help.

We have something very good here. KP is a large part of that. If for whatever reason he isn't going to be here going forward, at the very least please don't replace him with a blast from the past, especially when that particular past was udder crap.

I guess we differ on what stage of recovery the Blazers are at. Using your analogy, I don't believe the Blazers are a recovering alcoholics, I believe they're recovered. The management staff, people higher up than KP or Wark, are still committed to keeping this franchise off the front page for the wrong reasons. As such, guidelines will be set out for Wark on what kind of guys to go after.

Look, I don't disagree that KP is a very good GM and doesn't deserve to be fired. I think it's stupid that we even have to seriously have a conversation like this considering what this team has done, but that's the unfortunate reality. So I stand by my statement that IF Pritchard has to be fired, I think the Blazers could do a lot worse than hiring Wark.

I also think it's a bit disingenuous to say that the past was "udder crap". Say what you will about the character of those teams, but they were some damned talented teams. And at that time, the Blazers weren't afraid to go out and get an All Star or even to woo a HOF player.

I look at the roster of pieces that Wark helped Whitsitt assemble here.
I look at the roster of pieces that Wark has assembled in Denver.

Look at the the management guidelines set out when Wark and Whitsitt where here.
Look at the management guidelines he has in Denver.

What do they have in common? Win at all costs. Those Blazer teams and this Nuggets team aren't telling Wark to worry about character. As such, he's able to get very talented players for cheap. If management and the city don't care about character, then their method does have some validity to it. HOWEVER, the Blazers are operating under a whole new set of guidelines now days and Wark would have to conform to those guidelines.

[hondaaccord]

Here is a post I made on the Knicks board (explaining why KP is on the way out in Portland) :

The Blazers will have no money to sign any free agents other than MLE and veterans exemption for at least the next two years.

The two best moves Pritchard made were before he was GM ( he ran the blazers draft that landed Roy and Aldridge) . But even in the 2006 draft he wasted a pick on Joel Freeland.

Since then (2+ yearsas GM) he has only made two good moves, and one of these moves was so obvious that anyone could have made it.

Good moves
- Steal Nicolas Batum from Spurs in 2008 NBA draft
- Trading for Marcus Camby and signing him to extension

Meh moves

- Sign Andre Miller

Terrible Moves
-Take Oden over Durant (I was for drafting Durant)
-Drafting Rudy Fernandez (You have no idea how bad this guy is, it's like he is trying to play his way out of Portland)
-Signing Martell Webster to 20 million dollar contract for absolutely no reason
-Wasting draft pick on Victor Claver
-Wasting draft pick on Petteri Koponen
-Signing Travis Deiner (why why why?)
-Trading Zach Randolph to the Knicks for a bundle of sticks aka Channing Frye
-Probably involved in the most embarrassing situation ever for the Blazers FO (Illegally trying to keep Darius Miles unemployed)

[SalemStoner]

I look at the roster of pieces that Wark helped Whitsitt assemble here.
I look at the roster of pieces that Wark has assembled in Denver.

Look at the the management guidelines set out when Wark and Whitsitt where here.
Look at the management guidelines he has in Denver.

What do they have in common? Win at all costs. Those Blazer teams and this Nuggets team aren't telling Wark to worry about character. As such, he's able to get very talented players for cheap. If management and the city don't care about character, then their method does have some validity to it. HOWEVER, the Blazers are operating under a whole new set of guidelines now days and Wark would have to conform to those guidelines.

Yep, win at all costs. That's the motto of his main man Bob Whitsit and himself. I don't expect him to change this motto if he comes to POR, I expect Wark to be Wark. While he's been successful in that enviornment, I don't believe he's a good match for us because I think he's too will to overlook people's pasts when that past includes things such as beating your wife, getting kicked out of the league for two years for failing multiple drug tests, or even things as simple as seeing how perhaps putting Mr. "PRACTICE?!!?!" next to his young impressionable superstar(who was known to have questionable morals and decision making already) just might have been a bad idea - sure he lucked into the Chauncey gift a couple years later but I think it's silly to overlook just how bad of an idea it was to put a guy like AI next to a kid like Melo.

Look I'm not trying to say Wark is a bad GM, I'm just saying I don't think he's a good GM for us because I believe he would absolutely murder the things about this team that made it fun to watch again(having kids who aren't thuggets to root for). Maybe he'd be ok for a year or two, but I suspect by year three we'd have a roster full of gangsta wanna bes - because frankly those are the guys it seems Wark is drawn to.

[DusterBuster]

I went over to the Knicks board to clear up the ridiculous claims by hondaacord........

Hey guys, a SANE Blazer poster here. Lemme tell you, hondaaccord is about as far removed from the pulse of the Blazers are you can get. He's made many Blazer fans ban lists because of his ridiculous rants.

Let me give you the REAL picture of why Pritchard may be out of Portland this summer......

I'll start out by clearing up some of the terrible points honda made.

The Blazers will have no money to sign any free agents other than MLE and veterans exemption for at least the next two years.

This was PART of the Blazers plan when they won the Greg Oden Draft (and yes, back in the summer of 07, the draft was called "The Greg Oden Draft" for those not using revisionist history). They traded Zach Randolph, to these very Knicks, to get out of his contract to make a big splash in 2009. They couldn't make any sort of big 2010 splash because of Roy and Aldridge. It was ALWAYS the plan to not have any cap space after Roy and Aldridge initially got their new contracts. This is NOT a reason why Pritchard is on the way out.

Good moves
- Steal Nicolas Batum from Spurs in 2008 NBA draft
- Trading for Marcus Camby and signing him to extension

Meh moves

- Sign Andre Miller

Miller was NOT a "Meh" move. He was the best player of the 2009 FA season and the Blazers got him for a bargain. Not only that, he's the MAIN reason why the Blazers were able to survive this season of ridiculous injuries and walk away with 50 wins. He was a good move. Again, this is NOT a reason why Pritchard is on the way out.

Terrible Moves
-Take Oden over Durant (I was for drafting Durant)

I'm sure he was [/sarcasm], just like 90% of fans here that all claim they were for drafting Durant even though it was "The ODEN Draft". Every team in the league was going to take Oden #1 that summer and nearly every NBA analyst was saying the Blazers would be crazy to take Durant #1. Anyone saying that's not true is FLAT OUT LYING. The Blazers org even caught flack from the national media for the "Honk once for Oden and twice for Durant" campaign and making it a debate.

HOWEVER, this may be a reason that Pritchard may be on his way out. Regardless of the above facts, there's no doubt that in hindsight, Durant should have gone #1. Paul Allen can't be happy about missing out on Durant for Oden right now.

-Drafting Rudy Fernandez (You have no idea how bad this guy is, it's like he is trying to play his way out of Portland)

Again, a stupid stupid point. Rudy Fernandez was a fan favorite up until the past few months. He had a down season (marred by a back injury) and a poor playoffs, now everyone hates him. Drafting Rudy was not a "bad move". The Blazers got Rudy for dirt cheap. They gave up nothing but a TPE, a 2nd round pick and some cash iirc. Not only did they get Rudy, but they got James Jones, who was a big help for the season he was in Portland. Then there's the fact that Rudy was picked in the late 20's, not exactly like a the Blazers wasted a high pick on him. This is NOT a reason why Pritchard is on the way out.

-Signing Martell Webster to 20 million dollar contract for absolutely no reason

Not a bad contract and not a bad move. He's only payed around 4-5 mil a year, and for a player of his caliber, that's not a bad contract. He's wildly inconsistent, but he's a solid defender and is a good shooter. This is NOT a reason why Pritchard is on the way out.

-Wasting draft pick on Victor Claver

This was done to preserve cap space for 2009. By picking a player overseas, the Blazers didn't have to pay the full amount of contract during that summer. The Blazers needed to make as much cap room available because of the botched Miles move, which I'll get to later. This is NOT a reason why Pritchard is on the way out.

-Wasting draft pick on Petteri Koponen

Ya, Pritchard's whole "picking euro players that won't play in the NBA this decade at the end of the draft" philosophy is a little irritating. I won't deny that. We've passed on some really solid players late in the draft because of these overseas guys like Freeland, Koponen and Claver, players we likely won't see for years. That said, it's very easy to miss on a player late in the draft, but it would be a little less easy were Pritchard not picking players that he KNOWS won't play in the NBA for awhile. Again, this is NOT a reason why Pritchard is on the way out.

-Signing Travis Deiner (why why why?)

The only "what" that should be asked is WHY are you listing this as a reason? He was signed late in the season to fill a roster spot. Every team does it. This is DEFINITELY not a reason why Pritchard is on his way out.

-Trading Zach Randolph to the Knicks for a bundle of sticks aka Channing Frye

Zach's value was low as dirt for years and years. Randolph didn't restore his value in the NBA until this season. They weren't going to get anything of serious value for him to begin with, but he had to go. It worked out for the best because it allowed Roy a chance to be the #1 guy and helped clean up the Blazers public image. This is NOT a reason why Pritchard is on the way out.

-Probably involved in the most embarrassing situation ever for the Blazers FO (Illegally trying to keep Darius Miles unemployed)

I see now you're blaming him for "probably" doing things. Ridiculous. Pritchard did name a HUGE mistake is how he initially handled the medical retirement of Miles. That never should have happened. The Blazers should have just kept Miles' contract and made Miles stay away from the team. At least the Blazers would have had a contract to trade this summer. As for that stupid letter that went out, there's nothing solid linking Pritchard to that letter outside of that fact that Pritchard is a Blazer employee. This is NOT a reason why Pritchard is on the way out. Paul Allen had to OK that letter before it went out, he's just as responsible for that as anyone.

However, the handling of the medical retirement of Darius Miles is a black eye on Pritchard's record and that could be a factor why Pritchard is out.

The REAL reason why Pritchard is on the way out is because he has apparently burnt some bridges with the wrong people in Portland. Rumor has it that that Pritchard played up the supposed interest Minnesota had in KP's close friend Tom Penn and used it as leverage to get Penn more money and a higher title. This rubbed Allen the wrong way. Word is also that Allen is disappointed by the lack of development in the team, and Paul Allen has also been known to make hasty decisions at times. I also believe that there are some issues between Pritchard and Allen that hasn't been made public knowledge yet. Pritchard himself eluded to it in his post season press conference. He said he "made some mistakes" and when asked if he could explain what mistakes those were, he answered "no I can't".

Personally, I think it's pretty stupid that the Blazers could consider getting rid of Pritchard considering the turn around he's preformed here in Portland. That said, I can also see some positives in making a change. Pritchard, while a very good GM, has some some flaws. He gets too attached to his young players and lets good trades get away because of it. I've yet to see that he has the ability to make a trade to bring in a 2nd big name player. That is something that has me interested in the possibility of bringing in Denver GM Mark Warkentien.

[DusterBuster]

I look at the roster of pieces that Wark helped Whitsitt assemble here.
I look at the roster of pieces that Wark has assembled in Denver.

Look at the the management guidelines set out when Wark and Whitsitt where here.
Look at the management guidelines he has in Denver.

What do they have in common? Win at all costs. Those Blazer teams and this Nuggets team aren't telling Wark to worry about character. As such, he's able to get very talented players for cheap. If management and the city don't care about character, then their method does have some validity to it. HOWEVER, the Blazers are operating under a whole new set of guidelines now days and Wark would have to conform to those guidelines.

Yep, win at all costs. That's the motto of his main man Bob Whitsit and himself. I don't expect him to change this motto if he comes to POR, I expect Wark to be Wark. While he's been successful in that enviornment, I don't believe he's a good match for us because I think he's too will to overlook people's pasts when that past includes things such as beating your wife, getting kicked out of the league for two years for failing multiple drug tests, or even things as simple as seeing how perhaps putting Mr. "PRACTICE?!!?!" next to his young impressionable superstar(who was known to have questionable morals and decision making already) just might have been a bad idea - sure he lucked into the Chauncey gift a couple years later but I think it's silly to overlook just how bad of an idea it was to put a guy like AI next to a kid like Melo.

Look I'm not trying to say Wark is a bad GM, I'm just saying I don't think he's a good GM for us because I believe he would absolutely murder the things about this team that made it fun to watch again(having kids who aren't thuggets to root for). Maybe he'd be ok for a year or two, but I suspect by year three we'd have a roster full of gangsta wanna bes - because frankly those are the guys it seems Wark is drawn to.

You're again completely ignoring the fact that Wark will be under pretty strict orders to not take on players like these in Portland. Orders that he's NOT under in Denver and wasn't under in the old Blazers. There's also nothing to say that it's going to change in 2 years or so. I just think you're theory is completely unfounded.

[hondaaccord]

Dusterbuster, pretty much everyone on this board agrees Rudy Fernandez has completely sucked this season.

Jerome James was a fan favorite in NY. Being a fan favorite doesn't matter, if a GM brings in players that suck, the GM gets fired.

Webster is a bad contract. Look at the statistics. Webster is not in the top 100 of NBA SFs in FG%. He isn't worth his salary at all. Webster is the worst contract on the team. Travis Outlaw is a better player and has a lower player, for example.

Victor Claver is a wasted pick, he has signed an extension with the european team he is on and won't be a FA for years.

Zach Randolph's value wasn't dirt. Channing Frye was a young player that KP mis-evaluated. Some people really liked Frye. KP got it wrong. If Zach Randolphs value was Dirt he wouldn't have been able to be traded to the Clippers. Zach Randolph is a perfect player for Nate's iso offense.

Paul Millsap, Ben Gordon and Hedo Türkoğlu are better players than Andre Miller. I don't view Andre Miller as a negative decision, just nothing spectacular.


Travis Deiner was a terrible addition at the end of the season. It's not a big reason for getting canned, but Deiner looked absolutely terrible in games this year.

[DusterBuster]

Seriously dude, just stop honda. You're making yourself look bad on two boards.

Dusterbuster, pretty much everyone on this board agrees Rudy Fernandez has completely sucked this season.

And....... Just because he had a crappy season doesn't mean it was a bad decision to draft him. He was the #25 pick, we got him for a TPE and some cash and we got James Jones in the deal too. In other words, we gave up practically nothing to get him.

Jerome James was a fan favorite in NY. Being a fan favorite doesn't matter, if a GM brings in players that suck, the GM gets fired.

LMAO. Jerome James was NEVER a fan favorite in NY. I don't know where you got that insane idea. He was never a fan favorite anywhere he's been. Sonic fans hated the guy for being lazy, he had one good playoff run with the Sonics in a contract year, leveraged that into a MLE deal with NY, then proceeded to do his best Eddy Curry impression of sitting on the end of the bench and eating twinkies.

Webster is a bad contract. Look at the statistics. Webster is not in the top 100 of NBA SFs in FG%. He isn't worth his salary at all. Webster is the worst contract on the team. Travis Outlaw is a better player and has a lower player, for example.

Ridiculous. His contract is just fine. I don't even feel like responding to this. The fact that you're basing Webster's value over nothing but his FG% shows how little BBIQ you have.

Victor Claver is a wasted pick, he has signed an extension with the european team he is on and won't be a FA for years.

I agree. I've not been a fan of Pritchard's continued use of late picks on players who are stuck overseas. That said, the Blazers did that this year because of their cap room. Taking on an overseas player and keeping him overseas saved the Blazers money to sign a player. In hindsight, they didn't have to use every penny of their cap as they had expected, so it wasn't needed, but it did make sense at the time.

Zach Randolph's value wasn't dirt. Channing Frye was a young player that KP mis-evaluated. Some people really liked Frye. KP got it wrong. If Zach Randolphs value was Dirt he wouldn't have been able to be traded to the Clippers. Zach Randolph is a perfect player for Nate's iso offense.

Yes it was. Seriously dude, what reality are you living in? Randolph's value was garbage, look at what he's been traded for every time he's been moved. All NY got for Zach was a medically retired Cat Mobley and a waste of space Tim Thomas that no one wanted. What did the Clips get when they traded him? QRich and a TPE. They later traded QRich that summer. Portland was the only team to get a young player in return for Randolph. You could argue that the Blazers actually got the most of any team that had traded Randolph. That is DIRT value.

Paul Millsap, Ben Gordon and Hedo Türkoğlu are better players than Andre Miller. I don't view Andre Miller as a negative decision, just nothing spectacular.

Paul Millsap was never coming to Portland. He was a RFA and the Jazz were always going to match. Ben Gordon got way more money than the Blazers could spend. And Turk is NOT a better player than Miller, not by a long shot. The Blazers got the best value and best player they could in the 2009 summer.

Travis Deiner was a terrible addition at the end of the season. It's not a big reason for getting canned, but Deiner looked absolutely terrible in games this year.

Only a out of touch Blazer fan can think the 15th guy on a roster matters.......

[SalemStoner]

You're again completely ignoring the fact that Wark will be under pretty strict orders to not take on players like these in Portland. Orders that he's NOT under in Denver and wasn't under in the old Blazers. There's also nothing to say that it's going to change in 2 years or so. I just think you're theory is completely unfounded.

I'm not ignoring it, I just don't think it's going to have as much of an effect long term as you do. There's a difference between ignoring it and simply believing he'd undermine us on that front due to the the types of players he likes. It's a fundamental difference between "ignoring" and "disagreeing."

I think if any theory is completely unfounded it's that the zebra will change it's stripes by being put into a new situation with "strict orders".

[DaVoiceMaster]

So is Portland waiting to see what happens with Wark before they nuke KP? I don't know why they would not have done so already if they plan to. Are they hanging onto KP for the draft since he does so well during the draft in recent years and then plan to nuke him? I dunno, I just think KP is here to stay.

[DusterBuster]

So is Portland waiting to see what happens with Wark before they nuke KP? I don't know why they would not have done so already if they plan to. Are they hanging onto KP for the draft since he does so well during the draft in recent years and then plan to nuke him? I dunno, I just think KP is here to stay.

Your trying to apply logic to how the Vulcan's do things..................

[DaVoiceMaster]

Oops, my bad!!!

[The Legynd]

Paul Millsap, Ben Gordon and Hedo Türkoğlu are better players than Andre Miller.

Just to be sure...you wrote this of your own free will? How many beers have you had tonight?

[DusterBuster]

Paul Millsap, Ben Gordon and Hedo Türkoğlu are better players than Andre Miller.

Just to be sure...you wrote this of your own free will? How many beers have you had tonight?

Tonight?! He wrote that in the middle of the day!

[The Legynd]

Sorry, hondaaccord how many beers did you have yesterday afternoon?

That better?

[mojomarc]

Sorry, hondaaccord how many beers did you have yesterday afternoon?

That better?

Not really--with that kind of fail, there really isn't enough beer in the world.

[Brandon-Clyde]

Sorry, hondaaccord how many beers did you have yesterday afternoon?

That better?

Not really--with that kind of fail, there really isn't enough beer in the world.

Vodka?

[DusterBuster]

Sorry, hondaaccord how many beers did you have yesterday afternoon?

That better?

Not really--with that kind of fail, there really isn't enough beer in the world.

Vodka?

Crack.

[ebott]

So is Portland waiting to see what happens with Wark before they nuke KP? I don't know why they would not have done so already if they plan to. Are they hanging onto KP for the draft since he does so well during the draft in recent years and then plan to nuke him? I dunno, I just think KP is here to stay.

I think the overall theory is that the Nuggets aren't going to renew Wark. So he'll be a free agent some time in August. But they aren't going to fire him either.

All the blah blah blah people seem to be spouting is that if that comes to pass the Blazers will fire KP and hire Wark.

[The Emcee]

This thread has me cracking up. I'm afraid to read honda's last post.

[DaVoiceMaster]

Dude, your avatar has me cracking up. That chick bites it big time!!! I'd love to see the rug burn across her face after her ride down the stairs! hahahahaha