Amick: Harden expands his list of preferred destinations to include Blazers

[d-train]

DCC and Hood are trade restricted until 2/5 and 3/5, respectively. It would be almost impossible for Blazers to make a deal that didn't include 1 or both these players.

Not that I see... CJ+Zach+Little or Simons equals the salary needed..... It's not even close to impossible CJ+Rookie scale contracts gets you there real quick.

If we trade any of Lillard, CJ, Nurk, or Zach, we are deconstructing our team. Before we do that we have to make sure we are a certain contender after the trade. IOW, we have to have a team that will beat the Lakers.

Upgrading Lillard or CJ doesn't improve us that much. We will still need Nurk and Zach just as much as we need them now to complete our current team, which is already a doubtful contender. The only thing the upgrade improves is playmaking because Harden would be our PG and we wouldn't need to hope for a 30yo PG to improve his playmaking. I don't believe the difference between Lillard's and Harden's playmaking closes the gap on where we are and where we need to be. We will still need Nurk and Zach's complementary skills to give us any chance.

[d-train]

Still believe you need to find a way to keep Nurk tho. But I can see the argument for being OK moving him as well, players of Harden’s caliber being interested in playing in Portland is so rare that it’s justifiable for this to be a “pull out all the stops” sort of deal.

Of course, you can't pull out all stops. You will end up like the Rockets or worse if you pull out all stops.

Last year we replaced Nurk with a more limited player who was statically better than Nurk. Look how that turned out. It ends up that complementing skills is more important than filling a theoretical stat sheet.

[HoopsFanAZ]

1. Not a Harden fan, though I did have season tickets in his final year at ASU. Crafty son-uv-a-gun.
2. Lillard and Nurkic stay.
3. The contracts needed start with CJ, and he's a nice fit beside Wall.
4. Youth is added to the mix, and I hope it's not GTJ ... and I'm a big fan of ZC.

CJ + Collins + Little + Simons = Harden. More than that? Probably a protected pick.
Teams aren't lining up to take their teams apart.

Nurkic, Kanter, Giles, Anthony, RoCo, Hood, DJJ, GTJ, Elleby, and Lillard
Add Harden to that mix, and it's still a team that's 10 deep. Get the veteran PG on BAE.
It's a legacy maker that would be hard to pass up for Olshey.

[DusterBuster]

DCC and Hood are trade restricted until 2/5 and 3/5, respectively. It would be almost impossible for Blazers to make a deal that didn't include 1 or both these players.

Not that I see... CJ+Zach+Little or Simons equals the salary needed..... It's not even close to impossible CJ+Rookie scale contracts gets you there real quick.

If we trade any of Lillard, CJ, Nurk, or Zach, we are deconstructing our team. Before we do that we have to make sure we are a certain contender after the trade. IOW, we have to have a team that will beat the Lakers.

Upgrading Lillard or CJ doesn't improve us that much. We will still need Nurk and Zach just as much as we need them now to complete our current team, which is already a doubtful contender. The only thing the upgrade improves is playmaking because Harden would be our PG and we wouldn't need to hope for a 30yo PG to improve his playmaking. I don't believe the difference between Lillard's and Harden's playmaking closes the gap on where we are and where we need to be. We will still need Nurk and Zach's complementary skills to give us any chance.

You may as well just say your not interested in trading for Harden (fine POV to have). Saying you aren’t willing to trade those players mathematically eliminates any possible trades to match his salary... you could save a lot of time.

[d-train]

Not that I see... CJ+Zach+Little or Simons equals the salary needed..... It's not even close to impossible CJ+Rookie scale contracts gets you there real quick.

If we trade any of Lillard, CJ, Nurk, or Zach, we are deconstructing our team. Before we do that we have to make sure we are a certain contender after the trade. IOW, we have to have a team that will beat the Lakers.

Upgrading Lillard or CJ doesn't improve us that much. We will still need Nurk and Zach just as much as we need them now to complete our current team, which is already a doubtful contender. The only thing the upgrade improves is playmaking because Harden would be our PG and we wouldn't need to hope for a 30yo PG to improve his playmaking. I don't believe the difference between Lillard's and Harden's playmaking closes the gap on where we are and where we need to be. We will still need Nurk and Zach's complementary skills to give us any chance.

You may as well just say your not interested in trading for Harden (fine POV to have). Saying you aren’t willing to trade those players mathematically eliminates any possible trades to match his salary... you could save a lot of time.

I am willing to trade for Harden. I am not willing to shuffle players around and not improve. And, I'm not interested in having Rockets problems. IOW, a player being paid $40M/yr who wants to use that financial commitment to ruin his team.

[Jkam31]

I would keep Nurk and Zach out of the trade. A trade doesn't do Blazers any good if we end up with Harden and the same inability to support him he faces in Houston.

He’s never played with anyone as good as Dame when he was in Houston. You trade both Nurk and Zach without blinking

Lillard is only as good as Lillard when he has the ball. Harden will have the ball and Lillard would be less than the player he is now. The complementary pieces Harden is missing are the pieces Blazers have been trying to pair Lillard with since our run to WCF.

So there’s no player you can pair with him to get better than right? You can have two creators on the same team especially when other of them are elite shooters

[Jkam31]

Hilarious really seeing people’s excuses not too team two elite players comical. You don’t wanna lose Nurkic really really get a damn defensive center in return

[DusterBuster]

If we trade any of Lillard, CJ, Nurk, or Zach, we are deconstructing our team. Before we do that we have to make sure we are a certain contender after the trade. IOW, we have to have a team that will beat the Lakers.

Upgrading Lillard or CJ doesn't improve us that much. We will still need Nurk and Zach just as much as we need them now to complete our current team, which is already a doubtful contender. The only thing the upgrade improves is playmaking because Harden would be our PG and we wouldn't need to hope for a 30yo PG to improve his playmaking. I don't believe the difference between Lillard's and Harden's playmaking closes the gap on where we are and where we need to be. We will still need Nurk and Zach's complementary skills to give us any chance.

You may as well just say your not interested in trading for Harden (fine POV to have). Saying you aren’t willing to trade those players mathematically eliminates any possible trades to match his salary... you could save a lot of time.

I am willing to trade for Harden. I am not willing to shuffle players around and not improve. And, I'm not interested in having Rockets problems. IOW, a player being paid $40M/yr who wants to use that financial commitment to ruin his team.

But again, you’re mathematically making it an important to make a trade, so you’re basically saying you think the Blazers as constituted are good enough to win it all. That’s fine. But you can’t say you’re willing to trade for someone but not willing to trade for anyone who has enough salary to make a deal work because that doesn’t make any sense.

[d-train]

He’s never played with anyone as good as Dame when he was in Houston. You trade both Nurk and Zach without blinking

Lillard is only as good as Lillard when he has the ball. Harden will have the ball and Lillard would be less than the player he is now. The complementary pieces Harden is missing are the pieces Blazers have been trying to pair Lillard with since our run to WCF.

So there’s no player you can pair with him to get better than right? You can have two creators on the same team especially when other of them are elite shooters

Who says this other than you?

[d-train]

You may as well just say your not interested in trading for Harden (fine POV to have). Saying you aren’t willing to trade those players mathematically eliminates any possible trades to match his salary... you could save a lot of time.

I am willing to trade for Harden. I am not willing to shuffle players around and not improve. And, I'm not interested in having Rockets problems. IOW, a player being paid $40M/yr who wants to use that financial commitment to ruin his team.

But again, you’re mathematically making it an important to make a trade, so you’re basically saying you think the Blazers as constituted are good enough to win it all. That’s fine. But you can’t say you’re willing to trade for someone but not willing to trade for anyone who has enough salary to make a deal work because that doesn’t make any sense.

You have at least 3 false statements here about my position. I can formulate deals I would do where the math works. And, I specifically said the current Blazer team is doubtful to win a championship. Harden's team is also doubtful to win a championship. However, he is better than any player we have.

[d-train]

Hilarious really seeing people’s excuses not too team two elite players comical. You don’t wanna lose Nurkic really really get a damn defensive center in return

How about Hassan?

[Jkam31]

Lillard is only as good as Lillard when he has the ball. Harden will have the ball and Lillard would be less than the player he is now. The complementary pieces Harden is missing are the pieces Blazers have been trying to pair Lillard with since our run to WCF.

So there’s no player you can pair with him to get better than right? You can have two creators on the same team especially when other of them are elite shooters

Who says this other than you?

Would you trade the same package for prime lebron? Cause he was just as ball dominate as harden leave you hate for the guy out of it without him Portland has no chance coming out of the west let alone winning. With dame/lillard there instantly true contenders

[whatchaknow]

Do people not realize how bad dame has been harassed in the playoffs because there’s nobody else to initiate any sort of offense? Now imagine if teams are having to guard dame at half court and then you have harden playing against 4 defenders with shooters and nurkic around him. I mean it’s a no brainer. And to think people are hesitating to give up Trent or Collins really blows my mind

[d-train]

So there’s no player you can pair with him to get better than right? You can have two creators on the same team especially when other of them are elite shooters

Who says this other than you?

Would you trade the same package for prime lebron? Cause he was just as ball dominate as harden leave you hate for the guy out of it without him Portland has no chance coming out of the west let alone winning. With dame/lillard there instantly true contenders

I can't make any sense of this post. What trade package are you referring to? I would trade for LeBron or Harden if either of those players want to be in Portland. Provided I'm convinced they want to join the Blazers team that remains after the trade.

[Norm2953]

Very likely the trade package would involve a mixture of players and picks similar to what other teams
did in acquiring elite talent.

Let's say the trade is the guys mentioned plus picks or pick swaps in 21, 23,25. I think Portland would be
able to retain one of ZC or Nurk but let's say the trade was CJ, GTJ, Little and ZC along with picks or pick
swaps. This would leave Portland with

SF DJJ, Melo
PF Covington, Giles
C Nurk, Kanter
SG Harden, Hood
PG Dame, Simons

[Roy The Natural]

DCC and Hood are trade restricted until 2/5 and 3/5, respectively. It would be almost impossible for Blazers to make a deal that didn't include 1 or both these players.

Not that I see... CJ+Zach+Little or Simons equals the salary needed..... It's not even close to impossible CJ+Rookie scale contracts gets you there real quick.

If we trade any of Lillard, CJ, Nurk, or Zach, we are deconstructing our team. Before we do that we have to make sure we are a certain contender after the trade. IOW, we have to have a team that will beat the Lakers.

Upgrading Lillard or CJ doesn't improve us that much. We will still need Nurk and Zach just as much as we need them now to complete our current team, which is already a doubtful contender. The only thing the upgrade improves is playmaking because Harden would be our PG and we wouldn't need to hope for a 30yo PG to improve his playmaking. I don't believe the difference between Lillard's and Harden's playmaking closes the gap on where we are and where we need to be. We will still need Nurk and Zach's complementary skills to give us any chance.

I somewhat disagree... but that's not what you state anyways. You stated it was nearly impossible... that just isn't true. What you meant to say is that it is a tough decision in your mind that may backfire. You stated the subjective as objective, and I think that some clarity should be put on that statement for those who don't want to rifle through the salary cap numbers.

[Roy The Natural]

Not that I see... CJ+Zach+Little or Simons equals the salary needed..... It's not even close to impossible CJ+Rookie scale contracts gets you there real quick.

If we trade any of Lillard, CJ, Nurk, or Zach, we are deconstructing our team. Before we do that we have to make sure we are a certain contender after the trade. IOW, we have to have a team that will beat the Lakers.

Upgrading Lillard or CJ doesn't improve us that much. We will still need Nurk and Zach just as much as we need them now to complete our current team, which is already a doubtful contender. The only thing the upgrade improves is playmaking because Harden would be our PG and we wouldn't need to hope for a 30yo PG to improve his playmaking. I don't believe the difference between Lillard's and Harden's playmaking closes the gap on where we are and where we need to be. We will still need Nurk and Zach's complementary skills to give us any chance.

You may as well just say your not interested in trading for Harden (fine POV to have). Saying you aren’t willing to trade those players mathematically eliminates any possible trades to match his salary... you could save a lot of time.

As you say... Saying you don't want to trade for Harden is fine. Saying that it's nearly impossible and implying salary reasons it's a whole different story.

[DusterBuster]

If we trade any of Lillard, CJ, Nurk, or Zach, we are deconstructing our team. Before we do that we have to make sure we are a certain contender after the trade. IOW, we have to have a team that will beat the Lakers.

Upgrading Lillard or CJ doesn't improve us that much. We will still need Nurk and Zach just as much as we need them now to complete our current team, which is already a doubtful contender. The only thing the upgrade improves is playmaking because Harden would be our PG and we wouldn't need to hope for a 30yo PG to improve his playmaking. I don't believe the difference between Lillard's and Harden's playmaking closes the gap on where we are and where we need to be. We will still need Nurk and Zach's complementary skills to give us any chance.

You may as well just say your not interested in trading for Harden (fine POV to have). Saying you aren’t willing to trade those players mathematically eliminates any possible trades to match his salary... you could save a lot of time.

As you say... Saying you don't want to trade for Harden is fine. Saying that it's nearly impossible and implying salary reasons it's a whole different story.

I’m not tracking with you. D-train said trading Dame, CJ, Nurk or Zach is deconstructing the team to the point where trading for Harden doesn’t make sense. Ok, fine. But you can’t make a trade for Harden without including one of Dame, CJ or Nurk from salary perspective. If you’re unwilling to include one of those three for a max level player, than you’re effectively saying you are not willing to trade for that player.

[Roy The Natural]

You may as well just say your not interested in trading for Harden (fine POV to have). Saying you aren’t willing to trade those players mathematically eliminates any possible trades to match his salary... you could save a lot of time.

As you say... Saying you don't want to trade for Harden is fine. Saying that it's nearly impossible and implying salary reasons it's a whole different story.

I’m not tracking with you. D-train said trading Dame, CJ, Nurk or Zach is deconstructing the team to the point where trading for Harden doesn’t make sense. Ok, fine. But you can’t make a trade for Harden without including one of Dame, CJ or Nurk from salary perspective. If you’re unwilling to include one of those three for a max level player, than you’re effectively saying you are not willing to trade for that player.

Check the initial post for this subthread. He said that it would be "nearly impossible" to trade for Harden without Hood or DJJ. He didn't expand on that. The implication is that we objectively couldn't make the trade do to salary purposes. I told him that was wrong, and then he went into subjective, "I don't think it's worth it" mode.

Which is where my response to you start up. I don't have any issues debating the merits of moving a bunch of stuff for Harden. I do however think that such a position is debatable. Implying that salary matching is holding you back is not very debatable and an objective brick wall.

[JasonStern]

"JAMES HARDEN WILLING TO PLAY IN PORTLAND FOR $40M/YEAR"

Wow. Really didn't think this was thread-worthy. Kind of makes the franchise seem a bit desperate.

WELL I AM FINE HAVING A FORMER MVP IN HIS PRIME LOCKED UP ON A CONTRACT, BUT NOT IF IT COSTS US A TOP TEN CENTER.

Come on. Be realistic. Nurkić is worth more to a rebuilding team than CJ. Hell, Trent is probably worth more to a rebuilding team than CJ. Just because you know what you have with Collins, Simons, Little doesn't mean other franchises value your 250,000 mile 20+ year old Honda at $5,000, even with the AutoZone car seat covers.

Then you factor in the pick situation as we already owe a future 1st and have no future 1sts incoming, and it has to be some win-now team willing to sacrifice picks/prospects to take on CJ's contract. Not sure how that works out. Maybe Golden State. Wiggins + Min 1st for CJ makes no sense for us, but Wiggins + Min 1st makes more sense than CJ for a rebuilding team, and CJ makes more sense for a team with a prime Curry than Wiggins + Min 1st...

What's the difference between trading Nurkić for Harden and losing him to injury? Having Harden. Good news is that you have Kanter, Giles looks solid, and Collins will return soon so if you had to replace Nurkić, we're not in some major position of weakness.

Personally I think Harden being a headcase claims are overblown, at least at 31. A lot of "how would you react with the cameras and journalists on you 24/7?" Plus I'd trust Dame and the culture to win him over. At the time, Nurkić was a self-centered head-case that half the board hated trading for, but then that worked out.

Talent wins championships. Talent competes for championships. It's great that we're 10+ deep, but when the roster drops to 7-8 come playoff time, that unused bench depth isn't as important. Would Harden put us past the Lakers? Probably not. But could Harden put us past the Lakers? Possibly. And that's bigger than most want to admit.

But then there's the Dame situation. Being realistic and understanding that you have to trade Nurkić and CJ, is he okay trading his two closest friends on the team? Likewise, did he get along with Covington or is Covington warning the team to stay far, far away..?

That said, I think this is just mental masturbation, as many other teams could top our offer and if Harden is ADDING Portland to the list, it's not one of his ideal destinations. That said, Olshey did trade players he was "obsessed" with for CP3, so it's not completely unrealistic - just unlikely.

Are we a team that competes for championships, or a team that is happy saying, oh we made the playoffs for so many years? Because since Dame joined us, it seems like we've done everything except win a 'chip. Swept in the first round, made the second round, made the conference finals. Not sure why people don't want to go for more.

Try decaf.

I assure you that I am more filled by alcohol than caffeine during the holidays. Come January, things will get back to normal. Which also includes some posts being fueled by alcohol, me seeing 8 notifications, and wondering if I am in trouble.