Ayton, Grant, and Simons for anything?

[dckingsfan]

Duster you may have missed my partial point of the post...those players aren't going to be traded until the deadline at a minimum...

I think this is the main point.

The trades would be complicated because of the teams we would trade with (like the Lakers that are capped) and the Blazers cap situation (they can't take on a lot of salary either). This gives the advantage to teams like the Hornets, Wizards, Raptors, Magic, Spurs, Pistons and Jazz that are well under the cap.

The types of trades being discussed here are possible but they don't happen in a vacuum. Other teams that are trying to tank (even harder) are trying to do the same thing(s).

Edit: One more thing on this - the trade deadline is February 6th, so less than 100 days out. Most sane teams are going to want to get through 1/3 of the season before making an assessment on what they need and looking at who on their roster looks like they won't be able to play.

[Pattycakes]

I'm still bullish the Blazers can get both FRPs from the Lakers for Grant - particularly if he keeps up his playing level for a month and show it's not a flash. Lakers are showing out to start, they ware going to want to maximize LBJ's final year or two here and Grant is a flawless fit for them and an upgrade over Rui.

Rui, Russell, 2 FRPs for Grant and Banton. Or if they want to keep Rui (who's admittedly having a good start to his year), it could be Russell, Vanderbilt and picks for Grant alone... they may want to include Vando because of his contract length and Grant's contract length matching up. Getting back to the question at hand though, push comes to shove, I would be fine with even just one of two FRPs and either collection of players from the Lakers side.

As for the other two guys...

For Simons... it's not a question of talent but just... but where's the fit? Stretching a bit, I can maybe see a fit for him in like, Golden State... a team in transition but who wants to still be good through the transition. He fits their play style and can grow with the younger core guys they got, so that can make some sense when brainstorming it, but hard to find a deal that makes sense without taking on Wiggins and it's impossible to say how the Warriors still value him with his bipolar play and availability.

I know Orlando is always out there but hard to see the contract fits to make something work, and I don't see any other fit on the East Coast for him.

Maybe Dallas would want him as a 6th man... that's where I think his role is looked at for most contending teams - they'll want him as a super-6th guy off the bench and the Mavs could make sense with that... The Spurs maybe, but I think they're happy to be a dumpster fire in terms of wins again, so not sure there's much motivation there to improve. Sacramento maybe if they're struggling offensively and want some more firepower.

Long story short with Simons, there's a handful of situations where if you look at it right, I think teams would be interested in him, but I don't see any team (even the ones mentioned here) that are so desperate for a player like Simons right now that they're motivated to make a deal for him. Any Simons deal I think comes closer to the deadline when teams know what they are and have better pinpointed what their needs are... even then, I think he's destined to be a 6th man for a contending level team. I would again be fine with just a single FRP... I would prefer they get any FRP pick back, but even if that didn't happen, I wouldn't lose sleep over it. Just don't take on any dead-weight long-term contracts if you aren't getting a FRP back - that would be my one rule for Simons. If I saw Simons moved for expiring contracts and a fist full of second rounders, I would just roll my eyes at the headline and go about my day.

Then you have Ayton. Unlike Simons, I can see more immediate teams in need of a C. The team the Blazers just played twice is a perfect example, the Pelicans. They are dreadfully small inside and they should be concerned with the start they're getting of to. They've played 2 tanking teams in 3 games, their first win against the Bulls they didn't play a lick of defense and Chicago scored 111pts. Their two games against the Blazers, they barely squeaked out that first win with a BI GWS, then got blown out by Portland for their first loss of the year. Long story short, for all Ayton's flaws, there are teams in desperate need of size. Ayton also only has 2 years left on his deal, so while he might be "overpaid", it's not like he's locked in for 4 or 5 more years.

For Ayton, I would have the Pelicans and Grizzlies are high potential destinations. The Edey experiment for the Grizzlies might be short lived - he doesn't seem ready for full time NBA speed games so far. Smart, Clarke and a FRP for Ayton makes sense for both sides imo. I can also see Charlotte or Atlanta in the East as a landing spot for Ayton.

That would be an absolutely insane package if we can pull that off

[DusterBuster]

That would be an absolutely insane package if we can pull that off

I'll admit, I thought the 2 FRPs could be heavily protected when writing that, so yeah, just take that with a grain of salt

[dckingsfan]

That would be an absolutely insane package if we can pull that off

I'll admit, I thought the 2 FRPs could be heavily protected when writing that, so yeah, just take that with a grain of salt

Those FRPs would likely become SRPs that would be sold?

Also, wouldn't there need to be a third team because this leaves them without a PG?

[Walton1one]

That would be an absolutely insane package if we can pull that off

I'll admit, I thought the 2 FRPs could be heavily protected when writing that, so yeah, just take that with a grain of salt

This is the point I was trying to make earlier. (2) heavily protected 1st round picks from LAL are not necessarily better than (1) lightly\unprotected pick.

The context matters: What team? What year? What protections? What contingencies if it does not convey? What else comes along with it (other picks\young players, salary ballast coming back in the deal) etc...

[Jkam31]

Grant may not be able to get a fully unprotected pick (though I maintain he could, depends on the year\team trading), but a lightly protected (top 1-3) pick is almost as good as one. Even if LAL bottomed out, and was a lottery team, there is no guarantee that they could get a Top 3 pick, In fact the teams with the worst 3 records only have a 40% chance of getting a top 3 pick and it declines pretty rapidly from there (#4 36.6%, #5 31.6%, #6 27.6%).

Then of course POR could negotiate a rollover if it conveys in 2023 etc....

Most teams that are playoff teams are much more likely to have a protected pick convey (provided it is not too far out or have some ridiculous protections on it)

The team POR played last night (SAC) looks to be a prime contender for Grant IMO (or Williams, if he can show that he is healthy)

Lyles\Huerter + end of bench fodder (Robinson\McDermott\Jones) for Grant and 27 1st could work.

Still think MIL makes a ton of sense, they are struggling, Middleton still hurt and his play has been slipping year after year.

Middleton, 33, underwent multiple surgeries during the offseason and will not be ready to go on opening night. Milwaukee is taking a cautious approach to Middleton's return to play. In recent years, he has been hobbled by various injuries.
Middleton underwent surgery on both ankles during the 2024 offseason. His designation on the official injury report is "bilateral ankle surgery."

No surprise here, as Middleton has yet to be cleared for 5-on-5 with contact. It remains to be seen if he'll miss his fifth straight game Thursday against Memphis.

A Grant\Middleton swap would work with POR getting a 31' 1st and 31' 2nd, then POR could re-route Middleton to another team for something later.

This would give POR, 29' & 31' 1st round picks from MIL + swaps in 28', 30', and leverage, which works for both POR & MIL (note BRK & HOU moves recently) which means if MIL bottoms out in the next 2 years they have one team (POR) they can approach to get their picks\swaps back.

Kings fan here I’d easily do Huerter, Lyles, and a first for Grant but will your GM come off the two first demand. I’m positive whoever comes off that demand between you guys and Washington for Kuzma the deal gets done. With the way Huerter is playing he can easily be routed to a third team for picks.

Grant really wasn’t punishing our guards the other night is that common for him!

[Walton1one]

Kings fan here I’d easily do Huerter, Lyles, and a first for Grant but will your GM come off the two first demand. I’m positive whoever comes off that demand between you guys and Washington for Kuzma the deal gets done. With the way Huerter is playing he can easily be routed to a third team for picks.

I think WAS is more likely to come off of their demand than POR, they seem to understand the idea of rebuilding with youth more than POR GM does. Impossible to say if Cronin is demanding (2) 1st's or not though? Cronin worked under POR previous GM (Olshey), who was notorious for overvaluing his players and if Cronin views things similarly, then it is very possible he could be left empty-handed and trying to explain it away as there just were not any deals to be made. Typical excuse from POR GM's these last few years.

I would imagine POR would ask for a couple of 2nd rounders as well, POR is woefully lacking in that area. I imagine they would want some assurances on the 1st rounder as well, so that SAC would convey a 1st at some point. Either an unprotected 1st, or a lightly protected 1st (1-3) that would convey the next year (unprotected) if for some unforseen reason SAC ended up with a 1-3 pick in that given year. I imagine SAC would rather the 1st be sooner (27'/28') rather than later.

Grant really wasn’t punishing our guards the other night is that common for him!

Right now Grant is averaging 17.5 shots/game, WAY too many shots for him if he was on a better team like SAC. The benefit of having him as a 3rd/4th option for SAC, IMO is his efficiency would likely be even better, the last few years he has been at 40% 3pFG% which is very good, and on decent att\game (5.5), so far this year he is taking 8.8 att/game and his average is 37%. You put him on SAC, where the focal point of the offense and opposing defenses is Sabonis\Fox\DeRozan, and I think Grant would be a great addition, also allows Murray to move to the bench, which IMO outside of Monk is a real weak point of SAC.

[Jkam31]

Kings fan here I’d easily do Huerter, Lyles, and a first for Grant but will your GM come off the two first demand. I’m positive whoever comes off that demand between you guys and Washington for Kuzma the deal gets done. With the way Huerter is playing he can easily be routed to a third team for picks.

I think WAS is more likely to come off of their demand than POR, they seem to understand the idea of rebuilding with youth more than POR GM does. Impossible to say if Cronin is demanding (2) 1st's or not though? Cronin worked under POR previous GM (Olshey), who was notorious for overvaluing his players and if Cronin views things similarly, then it is very possible he could be left empty-handed and trying to explain it away as there just were not any deals to be made. Typical excuse from POR GM's these last few years.

I would imagine POR would ask for a couple of 2nd rounders as well, POR is woefully lacking in that area. I imagine they would want some assurances on the 1st rounder as well, so that SAC would convey a 1st at some point. Either an unprotected 1st, or a lightly protected 1st (1-3) that would convey the next year (unprotected) if for some unforseen reason SAC ended up with a 1-3 pick in that given year. I imagine SAC would rather the 1st be sooner (27'/28') rather than later.

Grant really wasn’t punishing our guards the other night is that common for him!

Right now Grant is averaging 17.5 shots/game, WAY too many shots for him if he was on a better team like SAC. The benefit of having him as a 3rd/4th option for SAC, IMO is his efficiency would likely be even better, the last few years he has been at 40% 3pFG% which is very good, and on decent att\game (5.5), so far this year he is taking 8.8 att/game and his average is 37%. You put him on SAC, where the focal point of the offense and opposing defenses is Sabonis\Fox\DeRozan, and I think Grant would be a great addition, also allows Murray to move to the bench, which IMO outside of Monk is a real weak point of SAC.

If Grants contract was Kuzma I think we would love given up two firsts by now the insiders the whole summer have mentioned Grants contract as a problem.

I agree with Grants game getting better with ya as he’s not the focal point zero chance Keegan goes to the bench he’s one of the best defenders in the league. I like picking up Grant cause it makes us bigger and we can throw a frontcourt of Sabonis/Grant/Murray

[zzaj]

Kings fan here I’d easily do Huerter, Lyles, and a first for Grant but will your GM come off the two first demand. I’m positive whoever comes off that demand between you guys and Washington for Kuzma the deal gets done. With the way Huerter is playing he can easily be routed to a third team for picks.

I think WAS is more likely to come off of their demand than POR, they seem to understand the idea of rebuilding with youth more than POR GM does. Impossible to say if Cronin is demanding (2) 1st's or not though? Cronin worked under POR previous GM (Olshey), who was notorious for overvaluing his players and if Cronin views things similarly, then it is very possible he could be left empty-handed and trying to explain it away as there just were not any deals to be made. Typical excuse from POR GM's these last few years.

I would imagine POR would ask for a couple of 2nd rounders as well, POR is woefully lacking in that area. I imagine they would want some assurances on the 1st rounder as well, so that SAC would convey a 1st at some point. Either an unprotected 1st, or a lightly protected 1st (1-3) that would convey the next year (unprotected) if for some unforseen reason SAC ended up with a 1-3 pick in that given year. I imagine SAC would rather the 1st be sooner (27'/28') rather than later.

Grant really wasn’t punishing our guards the other night is that common for him!

Right now Grant is averaging 17.5 shots/game, WAY too many shots for him if he was on a better team like SAC. The benefit of having him as a 3rd/4th option for SAC, IMO is his efficiency would likely be even better, the last few years he has been at 40% 3pFG% which is very good, and on decent att\game (5.5), so far this year he is taking 8.8 att/game and his average is 37%. You put him on SAC, where the focal point of the offense and opposing defenses is Sabonis\Fox\DeRozan, and I think Grant would be a great addition, also allows Murray to move to the bench, which IMO outside of Monk is a real weak point of SAC.

If Grants contract was Kuzma I think we would love given up two firsts by now the insiders the whole summer have mentioned Grants contract as a problem.

I agree with Grants game getting better with ya as he’s not the focal point zero chance Keegan goes to the bench he’s one of the best defenders in the league. I like picking up Grant cause it makes us bigger and we can throw a frontcourt of Sabonis/Grant/Murray

Bingo. And this is exactly why Grant is so hard to move.

Grant on that many years at that price is a hard pill to swallow for most teams that would need a 3rd or 4th...and rebuilding teams see the value in youth and cap flexibility so Grant makes no sense.

I do think an "all-in" vet team that is underperforming or facing injuries will be the thing that finally gets Grant moved.

[Walton1one]

1) I am not convinced that Grant's length of years' on his contract would be problematic to SAC

2) I am not sure a team like SAC has much of a choice BUT to go all in, at this point. They need to keep up with the top teams in the west and hope that a few of the more aging ones (LAL, GS, PHX, DEN, DAL, LAC) start to fall off in the next 2 years, while their fairly young core continues to ascend.

They have Derozan, who is 35, how many years of good play does he have left (2? 3?), He is a FA in (27/28)

DeAaron Fox's impending new contract next offseason, who appears to be holding off to sign a supermax deal (potentially $345 mil over 4 years!!) - paying him over years age 29-32 (FA in 31/32)

They have Sabonis locked in a 4yr deal (FA in 28/29), making $40-$50 mil/yr the next 4 years

They resigned Monk to a 4 yr (reasonable IMO) deal (FA in 28/29)

Murray will have to be re-signed, he has club option this year & next, then RFA in 26/27

Jerami Grant would be a FA in 28/29 at the age of 34 (he has a player option in 27/28)

It kind of lines up nicely, no? 3 years of trying to compete with a core including Grant and if it doesn't work out, a reset in 28/29 when Grant\Monk\Sabonis are all up in FA.

Also, some insurance in case DeRozan's play falls off a cliff in the next 2 years (or they choose not to resign him for 27/28).

It lines up ok with their draft capital as well, they have all of their 28/29/30/31 1st's (31 SA has rights to swap). Trading away their 27 pick would not threaten a rebuild, if they decided to reboot in 28/29.

Again, I assume a trade of Grant revolving around Lyles\Huerter & a 1st would have to have something else with it. Maybe a pick swap in 29/30/32 or 2-3 2nd round picks. Maybe POR likes one of their young players (2-way guys M.Jones/Crawford.I.Jones, maybe Colby Jones, damm they have a lot of Joneses), but IMO a deal b\t these (2) teams makes a ton of sense.

The issue with Kuzma, definitely an option, is that he becomes a FA in 27/28, at age 32, so along with DeRozan (1yr earlier than Grant). At that point, SAC has to decide do they try and resign both? Kuzma to a likely larger deal starting in his age 32 year? I would imagine DeRozan (if his play is still strong) would take a smaller (2-3 year deal? that would take him to age 39/40)

I mean it could work as well, just have to decide on both Kuzma & DeRozan instead of just DeRozan.

[Walton1one]

Also, forgot to add, Devin Carter comes off his rookie year deal in 28/29 (RFA year) as well

In 26/27 they have DeAaron Fox's mega extension, Keegan Murray's extension & a decision on Keon Ellis who will be a FA.

I think aligning a bunch of decisions in a given year (28/29) in this case, offers a team a great opportunity for an inflection point (stay all in or reboot) as well instead of having to play it out over several years.

[Jkam31]

1) I am not convinced that Grant's length of years' on his contract would be problematic to SAC

2) I am not sure a team like SAC has much of a choice BUT to go all in, at this point. They need to keep up with the top teams in the west and hope that a few of the more aging ones (LAL, GS, PHX, DEN, DAL, LAC) start to fall off in the next 2 years, while their fairly young core continues to ascend.

They have Derozan, who is 35, how many years of good play does he have left (2? 3?), He is a FA in (27/28)

DeAaron Fox's impending new contract next offseason, who appears to be holding off to sign a supermax deal (potentially $345 mil over 4 years!!) - paying him over years age 29-32 (FA in 31/32)

They have Sabonis locked in a 4yr deal (FA in 28/29), making $40-$50 mil/yr the next 4 years

They resigned Monk to a 4 yr (reasonable IMO) deal (FA in 28/29)

Murray will have to be re-signed, he has club option this year & next, then RFA in 26/27

Jerami Grant would be a FA in 28/29 at the age of 34 (he has a player option in 27/28)

It kind of lines up nicely, no? 3 years of trying to compete with a core including Grant and if it doesn't work out, a reset in 28/29 when Grant\Monk\Sabonis are all up in FA.

Also, some insurance in case DeRozan's play falls off a cliff in the next 2 years (or they choose not to resign him for 27/28).

It lines up ok with their draft capital as well, they have all of their 28/29/30/31 1st's (31 SA has rights to swap). Trading away their 27 pick would not threaten a rebuild, if they decided to reboot in 28/29.

Again, I assume a trade of Grant revolving around Lyles\Huerter & a 1st would have to have something else with it. Maybe a pick swap in 29/30/32 or 2-3 2nd round picks. Maybe POR likes one of their young players (2-way guys M.Jones/Crawford.I.Jones, maybe Colby Jones, damm they have a lot of Joneses), but IMO a deal b\t these (2) teams makes a ton of sense.

The issue with Kuzma, definitely an option, is that he becomes a FA in 27/28, at age 32, so along with DeRozan (1yr earlier than Grant). At that point, SAC has to decide do they try and resign both? Kuzma to a likely larger deal starting in his age 32 year? I would imagine DeRozan (if his play is still strong) would take a smaller (2-3 year deal? that would take him to age 39/40)

I mean it could work as well, just have to decide on both Kuzma & DeRozan instead of just DeRozan.

Ya I think for us to get to the next level is swapping Huerter for Grant or Kuzma to balance the roster and my pick would be grant based on shooting and defense But again the insiders made it clear they favor Kuzma contract and grants contract is disliked me personally I’m with you I don’t believe that his contract hurts that much just as you explained.

Any deal would be around Huerter, Lyle’s, and a first Huerter could probably be sent elsewhere for picks with the way he’s playing

[Butter]

My take on potential Grant trades

1. Kings - Huerter, Lyles, 2027 1st (top 5 protected), future FRP (heavily protected, converts to 2nd if not conveyed)
FOR
Grant


2. Lakers - Hachimara, Gabe Vincent, Jason Hayes (cut), FRP (Top 5, then 1, then unprotected) and Future pick swap
FOR
Grant, Banton



What other ideas are floating around?

[Pattycakes]

My take on potential Grant trades

1. Kings - Huerter, Lyles, 2025 1st (top 5 protected), future FRP (heavily protected, converts to 2nd if not conveyed)
FOR
Grant


2. Lakers - Hachimara, Gabe Vincent, Jason Hayes (cut), FRP (unprotected) and Future pick swap
FOR
Grant, Banton



What other ideas are floating around?

Nuggets have to throw their hat in the ring imo

[BlazersBroncos]

My take on potential Grant trades

1. Kings - Huerter, Lyles, 2025 1st (top 5 protected), future FRP (heavily protected, converts to 2nd if not conveyed)
FOR
Grant


2. Lakers - Hachimara, Gabe Vincent, Jason Hayes (cut), FRP (unprotected) and Future pick swap
FOR
Grant, Banton



What other ideas are floating around?

Nuggets have to throw their hat in the ring imo

They have little matching salary. IMO they would value MPJ pretty highly and wouldnt add to a swap of him for Grant.

As for getting 2 FRP - I still dont see it. Grant for Huerter + Lyles + 27 FRP would be fine by me. (FWIW - they cant trade 25 FRP as its owed to ATL).

The idea that LAL would throw a UNP FRP in a swap of Grant for Rui is outlandish to me. Rui is cheaper, younger and playing tremendously well right now. I think LAL is likely out of the Grant sweepstakes assuming Rui plays 75% this well for the season.

[Butter]

My take on potential Grant trades

1. Kings - Huerter, Lyles, 2025 1st (top 5 protected), future FRP (heavily protected, converts to 2nd if not conveyed)
FOR
Grant


2. Lakers - Hachimara, Gabe Vincent, Jason Hayes (cut), FRP (unprotected) and Future pick swap
FOR
Grant, Banton



What other ideas are floating around?

Nuggets have to throw their hat in the ring imo

They have little matching salary. IMO they would value MPJ pretty highly and wouldnt add to a swap of him for Grant.

As for getting 2 FRP - I still dont see it. Grant for Huerter + Lyles + 27 FRP would be fine by me. (FWIW - they cant trade 25 FRP as its owed to ATL).

The idea that LAL would throw a UNP FRP in a swap of Grant for Rui is outlandish to me. Rui is cheaper, younger and playing tremendously well right now. I think LAL is likely out of the Grant sweepstakes assuming Rui plays 75% this well for the season.

Ok, fine. Top 5 protected? Lol

Also, I don't really care about Rui, his salary is just the easiest to match. Maybe a Lakers deal works better as a three way?

And for the record, I'm not focused on trading Grant to the Lakers, I was just using them to spur the conversation.

[BlazersBroncos]

I am just not convinced we can get a pick any better than LP for Grant. Who is the last guy of his caliber that pulled a UNP or even Top-5 protected FRP? Yes he has a skillset that is in demand (Tall, athletic, 3PT good on high volume, can defend when he wants) - but he is also on the wrong side of 30 and signed to a very long deal for the current NBA environment.

Your have this year, maybe also next year, to run w/ LBJ in LAL. So even best case for them your taking on Grant with a contract that goes 2 years longer than the best case for LBJ's run in LA. I think this is a big reason why they are hesitant to trade for him. Assuming LBJ is done after 25/26 - your going into 26/27 with AD at 65M and Grant at 34M - thats 100M for 2 guys and a cap likely in the 150-155 range. I would bet that LAL is looking at the long game and hoping to keep a clean(ish) cap sheet to poach another star summer of 2026. And adding Grant's big money hurts that idea quite a bit.

Then again who knows - LeGM may push and win that push for a big move. Even in this case I would gamble that they push to keep Rui and include DLo and Vandy while including a single LP FRP.

[GEE]

I suggested months ago that including the Nets as a 3rd team, w/ Schoeder returning to the Lakers to play PG, Russel going to BRK, Rui coming to Portland and Grant going to the Lakers....... Is Doable! Picks and other players can be sweeteneers, but not the prize I think Cronin would be looking for. Rui would be the prize.

But as mentioned, one third of the season will need to pass for all teams to get a real feel of where they stand at competing for the title. In the above scenario, I'm obviously talking about the Lakers, but there are other scenarios that (I believe) Cronin is watching. The most obvious one being that Greek guy, but like Deni (someone I hadn't really even heard of until he was a Blazer), I'm sure there are some others he is also keeping an eye on.

Portland is in the drivers seat IMO when it comes to deals with other teams. Guys like Grant, Thybulle, Ayton and TL have good to great value around the league, despite what the masses on RealGM's trade board say. I think Cronin is simply being patient and waiting for the other teams to offer up a player that will put us in a win now mode.... and has no desire to dump good players for crap and draft picks...... IMO.

I will say it again, I think the tanking and rebuilding days are done. Upgrading is where I think we are now, and PF is likely still the main focal point....... IMO.

[dckingsfan]

Interesting. The rebuilding days are done with a team that finished last in the Pacific and won 21 games.

Interesting that in this buyers' market, the Trailblazers are in the driver's seat.

I like the optimism; just think we will be sorely disappointed if we want multiple FRPs for Grant.

Also, Sacramento's need is a defensive stopper. Grant isn't that guy for them.

At least I agree that this would go to the trade deadline before anything happens. At this point, the LA trade isn't that much of an upgrade (if any) for the Lakers. It would leave them without a PG.

I guess it is way easier to shoot down trade ideas than to make them in this current NBA market. The team with excess picks aren't the teams that have need.

[BlazersBroncos]

We are a Ben Simmons, a Rui Hachimura and a Mark Williams away from clearly being the best young team in the league.