Could Deni be Portland’s point guard of the future?

[Sinobas]

Everyone in this thread is focusing on assist/turnover ratio. But you ignore a much more glaring factor: defense. The defensive lineup we could have with Deni as our point could be insane. We already have 3 pieces. I think that will affect the scoreboard much more than his assist/turnover ratio.

That's not to say we shouldn't get a better PG in the long term, but I think he's better than Simons and Scoot right now.

[dckingsfan]

Everyone in this thread is focusing on assist/turnover ratio. But you ignore a much more glaring factor: defense. The defensive lineup we could have with Deni as our point could be insane. We already have 3 pieces. I think that will affect the scoreboard much more than his assist/turnover ratio.

That's not to say we shouldn't get a better PG in the long term, but I think he's better than Simons and Scoot right now.

This is a good point. But can't we roll out a strong defensive unit anyway?

I do think this is the reason to not start Simons. Or jettison him if we can, he doesn't seem engaged on the defensive end.

Deni, Thybulle, Camara should most definitely be in the starting lineup. Clingan is already a better defender (opinion but I would like other opinions on this) than Ayton. Walker is a decent backup (as a defender). So, IMO, those 5 should see extended minutes.

What is the starting lineup you are looking at? Also, given that you want to go with a defensive unit, who would you grab in the draft? There should be two or three really good defenders available when we pick.

This is also, "interesting" if we make our mark defensively. It allows us to not resign Simons and Ayton.

Sharpe is also a wildcard. He seems to get better on the defensive end each year. Will he have a couple more jumps on that end? I guess Scoot also improved.

[PDXKnight]

Everyone in this thread is focusing on assist/turnover ratio. But you ignore a much more glaring factor: defense. The defensive lineup we could have with Deni as our point could be insane. We already have 3 pieces. I think that will affect the scoreboard much more than his assist/turnover ratio.

That's not to say we shouldn't get a better PG in the long term, but I think he's better than Simons and Scoot right now.

Deni is indeed better overall than both players but a glaring weakness would exist at pg no matter how we frame it, just like ant at pg is a glaring defensive issue there. Deni is made to be a point forward or !a 2-4 but is clearly not a 1 as he shouldn't be the primary ball handler with the amount of turnovers he has. Yes he's creative and can do it in sets but we absolutely need to find a true ball handler at pg whether it's someone on the roster or someone we draft.

While Scoot is by no means better I think he's more suited to play pg long term unless we find a better alternative. He might not ever make an all star team (who knows) but this last season he looked increasingly useful and capable of playing within himself/not trying to do too much. Plus having a non primary ball handler like deni is essential at times. I think we should be shooting for using him like a more high powered scoring version of batum rather than trying to mold him into pg which is in my eyes out of position

[Wizenheimer]

Everyone in this thread is focusing on assist/turnover ratio. But you ignore a much more glaring factor: defense. The defensive lineup we could have with Deni as our point could be insane. We already have 3 pieces. I think that will affect the scoreboard much more than his assist/turnover ratio.

That's not to say we shouldn't get a better PG in the long term, but I think he's better than Simons and Scoot right now.

but the thread is asking if Avdija could be Portland's point guard. That's the primary facilitator; the guy who is responsible for organizing the offense and running it on the floor. It wouldn't matter much how good his defense was (and IMO, he's not fast enough to consistently defend NBA PG's) if when the Blazers are on offense he's turning the ball over once every 1.4 assists. That would be terrible offense

I question if Deni is even an efficient enough passer to be a secondary facilitator, let alone the 1st option. Compare his assist rate + assist/turnover rate to other secondary facilitators in the NBA

(1st number is assist rate; 2nd is assist/turnover rate)

player: assist rate - assist/turnover rate

Avdija: 19.9% - 1.43

Jalen Williams: 23.4% - 2.46
Alperen Sengun: 24.1% - 1.89
Amen Thompson: 16.9% - 1.90
Austin Reaves: 24.9% - 2.38
Jamal Murray: 23.2% - 2.92
Aaron Gordon: 15.0% - 2.25
Julius Randle: 22.5% - 1.65
Dante DiVencenzo: 20.2% - 2.27
Draymond Green: 26.2% - 2.20
Jimmy Butler: 26.5% - 4.05
Desmond Bane: 26.2% - 2.21
Sabonis: 26.0% - 2.09
Malik Monk: 25.7% - 2.28
Dinwiddie: 22.1% - 3.42
Devin Booker: 30.6% - 2.40
Stephen Castle: 22.8% - 1.88
Zion: 36.6% - 1.77
Jayson Tatum: 27.0% - 2.06
Josh Hart: 20.7% - 2.87
Andrew Nembhard: 22.5% - 2.91
Giannis: 36.0% - 2.10
Franz Wagner: 26.6% - 2.16
Paolo Banchero: 26.0% - 1.61
Adebayo: 20.0% - 2.09
Scottie Barnes: 27.7% - 2.04

Avdija: 19.9% - 1.43
Scoot: 28.1% - 1.89
Simons: 23.3% - 2.36
Banton: 21.5% - 1.86

the only two players on that list with a lower assist rate than Deni are Aaron Gordon and Amen Thompson; and they are not 2nd options as facilitators on their teams, they are 3rd or 4th options

and none of those players have a worse assist/turnover rate than Avdija; none are even close to as bad

might be better to just compare Deni to other 2nd/3rd/4th facilitating options Portland has had thru the Dame era

go with assists/turnovers per-100 possessions:

Avdija: 6.3 ast/4.4 trn - 1.43 ast/trn
Batum: 7.2 ast/3.6 trn - 2.00 ast/trn
CJ: 5.8 ast/2.4 trn - 2.42 ast/trn
Mason Plumlee: 6.5 ast/3.1 trn - 2.1 ast/trn (his best Portland season)
Evan Turner: 8.5 ast/3.4 trn - 2.50 ast/trn
Justice Winslow: 6.2 ast/2.7 trn - 2.29 ast/trn

the notion that any of those Blazers, other than CJ, would make a legitimate NBA PG is a stretch past the breaking point

[Walton1one]

Avdija as a playmaker\creator in the half court, for sure, but as the team's PG? I just don't see that.

[dckingsfan]

Avdija as a playmaker\creator in the half court, for sure, but as the team's PG? I just don't see that.

Yup. Ideally the 3rd option. Although Deni is now 64th in assist % this season. Not bad when you consider the start of the season where he wasn't touching the ball. If he can get the TOs down, then he would be a solid 2nd option (and given he seems to bring something new each season...).

The reality is we don't have a solid PG or 2nd option right now. Probably why the original post has the question.

[JRoy]

POR doesn’t have an nba starter quality pg on the roster.

[dckingsfan]

POR doesn’t have an nba starter quality pg on the roster.

Boom!

[Sinobas]

Everyone in this thread is focusing on assist/turnover ratio. But you ignore a much more glaring factor: defense. The defensive lineup we could have with Deni as our point could be insane. We already have 3 pieces. I think that will affect the scoreboard much more than his assist/turnover ratio.

That's not to say we shouldn't get a better PG in the long term, but I think he's better than Simons and Scoot right now.

This is a good point. But can't we roll out a strong defensive unit anyway?

I do think this is the reason to not start Simons. Or jettison him if we can, he doesn't seem engaged on the defensive end.

Deni, Thybulle, Camara should most definitely be in the starting lineup. Clingan is already a better defender (opinion but I would like other opinions on this) than Ayton. Walker is a decent backup (as a defender). So, IMO, those 5 should see extended minutes.

What is the starting lineup you are looking at? Also, given that you want to go with a defensive unit, who would you grab in the draft? There should be two or three really good defenders available when we pick.

This is also, "interesting" if we make our mark defensively. It allows us to not resign Simons and Ayton.

Sharpe is also a wildcard. He seems to get better on the defensive end each year. Will he have a couple more jumps on that end? I guess Scoot also improved.

The defense can still be good with one weakness. Simons is a lost cause, but I think Scoot will eventually be solid...even good. But not like Deni.

But Deni's versatility allows us to acquire and plug/play a 2,3 or 4 into our starting lineup. I shudder thinking what could have been if we had drafted Amen Thompson. We'd have the foundation of what could have been one of the best defenses in NBA history.

[Wizenheimer]

Deni, Thybulle, Camara should most definitely be in the starting lineup. Clingan is already a better defender (opinion but I would like other opinions on this) than Ayton. Walker is a decent backup (as a defender). So, IMO, those 5 should see extended minutes.

last first: yes, Clingan is a much better defender than Ayton. Not close. Portland's defense rating with Clingan on the floor is 3 points better than with Ayton on the floor; and 5.7 points better than the team overall. Clingan has a +1.4 DBPM'; Ayton has a -0.4 DBPM. Clingan is a strong rim protector; Ayton isn't. Clingan is an impact presence in the paint; Ayton isn't. In fact, I think, even as a rookie, Clingan was overall a better C than Ayton. He doesn't need to be playing 35 minutes a game, but he should be starting and playing 26-28 minutes, minimum. If you then account for the necessary small ball lineups, if the Blazers kept Ayton they'd be paying 35M next season for a 15 minute a game backup C. It would be insane. If you can't tell, I detest Ayton as a player and especially as a modern NBA C.

as far as your Thybulle-Camara-Avdija-Clingan starting lineup, you still need a PG. 3 of those players are not facilitators and the one that is is way too turnover prone. I'd still start Sharpe at SG and bring Thybulle off the bench

This is also, "interesting" if we make our mark defensively. It allows us to not resign Simons and Ayton.

I'm a broken record on this, but I don't think there is any "allow" in the equation. If you set Simons/Ayton aside for a minute, in the first two years after those two net negative players would be on their new deals, the Blazers have to re-sign Sharpe, Camara, Scoot, Avdija, Clingan, and possibly Thybulle. That's probably 130-150M in salary. If Portland already has an extra 60-70M in salary on the books for Simons/Ayton, they will have to get rid of at least a couple of those other players

this is one reason why I'm not expecting a trade of either Simons or Ayton (other than them having minimal to negative trade value): Portland may value and need those expiring contracts more than any other team.

[dckingsfan]

Deni, Thybulle, Camara should most definitely be in the starting lineup. Clingan is already a better defender (opinion but I would like other opinions on this) than Ayton. Walker is a decent backup (as a defender). So, IMO, those 5 should see extended minutes.

last first: yes, Clingan is a much better defender than Ayton. Not close. Portland's defense rating with Clingan on the floor is 3 points better than with Ayton on the floor; and 5.7 points better than the team overall. Clingan has a +1.4 DBPM'; Ayton has a -0.4 DBPM. Clingan is a strong rim protector; Ayton isn't. Clingan is an impact presence in the paint; Ayton isn't. In fact, I think, even as a rookie, Clingan was overall a better C than Ayton. He doesn't need to be playing 35 minutes a game, but he should be starting and playing 26-28 minutes, minimum. If you then account for the necessary small ball lineups, if the Blazers kept Ayton they'd be paying 35M next season for a 15 minute a game backup C. It would be insane. If you can't tell, I detest Ayton as a player and especially as a modern NBA C.

as far as your Thybulle-Camara-Avdija-Clingan starting lineup, you still need a PG. 3 of those players are not facilitators and the one that is is way too turnover prone. I'd still start Sharpe at SG and bring Thybulle off the bench

This is also, "interesting" if we make our mark defensively. It allows us to not resign Simons and Ayton.

I'm a broken record on this, but I don't think there is any "allow" in the equation. If you set Simons/Ayton aside for a minute, in the first two years after those two net negative players would be on their new deals, the Blazers have to re-sign Sharpe, Camara, Scoot, Avdija, Clingan, and possibly Thybulle. That's probably 130-150M in salary. If Portland already has an extra 60-70M in salary on the books for Simons/Ayton, they will have to get rid of at least a couple of those other players

this is one reason why I'm not expecting a trade of either Simons or Ayton (other than them having minimal to negative trade value): Portland may value and need those expiring contracts more than any other team.

Good to see we agree on Clingan. Okay that we disagree on Thybulle vs. Sharpe.

But hope springs eternal and they hold onto Simons/Ayton as expiring contracts. That would be awesome. I am not so high on resigning Sharpe unless it is on a friendly declining contract. I just don't buy into his motor to make the next break through on either end of the court.

[dckingsfan]

Everyone in this thread is focusing on assist/turnover ratio. But you ignore a much more glaring factor: defense. The defensive lineup we could have with Deni as our point could be insane. We already have 3 pieces. I think that will affect the scoreboard much more than his assist/turnover ratio.

That's not to say we shouldn't get a better PG in the long term, but I think he's better than Simons and Scoot right now.

This is a good point. But can't we roll out a strong defensive unit anyway?

I do think this is the reason to not start Simons. Or jettison him if we can, he doesn't seem engaged on the defensive end.

Deni, Thybulle, Camara should most definitely be in the starting lineup. Clingan is already a better defender (opinion but I would like other opinions on this) than Ayton. Walker is a decent backup (as a defender). So, IMO, those 5 should see extended minutes.

What is the starting lineup you are looking at? Also, given that you want to go with a defensive unit, who would you grab in the draft? There should be two or three really good defenders available when we pick.

This is also, "interesting" if we make our mark defensively. It allows us to not resign Simons and Ayton.

Sharpe is also a wildcard. He seems to get better on the defensive end each year. Will he have a couple more jumps on that end? I guess Scoot also improved.

The defense can still be good with one weakness. Simons is a lost cause, but I think Scoot will eventually be solid...even good. But not like Deni.

But Deni's versatility allows us to acquire and plug/play a 2,3 or 4 into our starting lineup. I shudder thinking what could have been if we had drafted Amen Thompson. We'd have the foundation of what could have been one of the best defenses in NBA history.

I just don't see Scoot ever getting to the point of being a starting caliber PG. I think he will continue to improve - he seems like a gym rat.

[Pattycakes]

I would prefer Deni play the point exclusively for Portland. I like the decision making, shot making and size he brings.

Point forward is the term you’re looking for. No, Deni has zero framework to be a teams pg

This is why we’re lucky to have scoot. He will be the ultimate Nash-lite (I was mocked before, mock me again idgaf) with shooters and athleticism surrounding him. Blazers have a sexy future

[dckingsfan]

I would prefer Deni play the point exclusively for Portland. I like the decision making, shot making and size he brings.

Point forward is the term you’re looking for. No, Deni has zero framework to be a teams pg

This is why we’re lucky to have scoot. He will be the ultimate Nash-lite (I was mocked before, mock me again idgaf) with shooters and athleticism surrounding him. Blazers have a sexy future

Wondering why you see Scoot as Nash-like (not just Nash-extremely-lite).

Nash was a career .428 3-point shooter and was over .400 in his first two seasons. Scoot thus far is a .340 3-point shooter. Nash shot .904 from the FT line, thus far Scoot is shooting .793 over his first two seasons.

Nash could get ANYWHERE on the floor whenever he wanted. He was also amazing at running the break. Scoot, not so much thus far.

So far, the only good comparison is that they were/are both weak defenders.

I am not hating on Scoot, maybe he will get there (I see him as a solid backup PG in the league).

But dang, he has a very long way to go from Nash-extremely-lite to Nash-lite. Just saying... then again - cool to be a fan. fan or fanatic (n.) A person marked or motivated by an extreme, unreasoning enthusiasm, as for a cause. Go Scoot...

[Wizenheimer]

I would prefer Deni play the point exclusively for Portland. I like the decision making, shot making and size he brings.

Point forward is the term you’re looking for. No, Deni has zero framework to be a teams pg

This is why we’re lucky to have scoot. He will be the ultimate Nash-lite (I was mocked before, mock me again idgaf) with shooters and athleticism surrounding him. Blazers have a sexy future

Wondering why you see Scoot as Nash-like (not just Nash-extremely-lite).

Nash was a career .428 3-point shooter and was over .400 in his first two seasons. Scoot thus far is a .340 3-point shooter. Nash shot .904 from the FT line, thus far Scoot is shooting .793 over his first two seasons.

Nash could get ANYWHERE on the floor whenever he wanted. He was also amazing at running the break. Scoot, not so much thus far.

So far, the only good comparison is that they were/are both weak defenders.

I am not hating on Scoot, maybe he will get there (I see him as a solid backup PG in the league).

But dang, he has a very long way to go from Nash-extremely-lite to Nash-lite. Just saying... then again - cool to be a fan. fan or fanatic (n.) A person marked or motivated by an extreme, unreasoning enthusiasm, as for a cause. Go Scoot...

yeah...Steve Nash is a weird comp for Scoot

Dereck Rose-lite....Westbrook-lite....those would be closer although comparing Scoot to an MVP-level PG is over the top at this point. Baron Davis-lite might be closer although Davis was an unapologetic chucker and Scoot isn't; Davis could use both hands though, Scoot can't at this point.

a rich man's Jarrett Jack? rich man's Jerryd Bayless?

a bigger, less explosive Robert Pack?

[Pattycakes]

I would prefer Deni play the point exclusively for Portland. I like the decision making, shot making and size he brings.

Point forward is the term you’re looking for. No, Deni has zero framework to be a teams pg

This is why we’re lucky to have scoot. He will be the ultimate Nash-lite (I was mocked before, mock me again idgaf) with shooters and athleticism surrounding him. Blazers have a sexy future

Wondering why you see Scoot as Nash-like (not just Nash-extremely-lite).

Nash was a career .428 3-point shooter and was over .400 in his first two seasons. Scoot thus far is a .340 3-point shooter. Nash shot .904 from the FT line, thus far Scoot is shooting .793 over his first two seasons.

Nash could get ANYWHERE on the floor whenever he wanted. He was also amazing at running the break. Scoot, not so much thus far.

So far, the only good comparison is that they were/are both weak defenders.

I am not hating on Scoot, maybe he will get there (I see him as a solid backup PG in the league).

But dang, he has a very long way to go from Nash-extremely-lite to Nash-lite. Just saying... then again - cool to be a fan. fan or fanatic (n.) A person marked or motivated by an extreme, unreasoning enthusiasm, as for a cause. Go Scoot...

I see Scoot in the Nash/CP3 framework due to his playing style more than the numbers etc.

I like Scoot to shoot for their strengths, ball handling/setting up everyone, getting the team going. He showed a major boost in this area in a lot of games this year.

I hated the Westbrook/rose talk. Scoot has nice dunks and can drive, but I think he can be a smarter player
Than those two.

Anyway, it’s just my gut, I expect a huge season from
A starting scoot this year. 18/8 over 30 min. An elite floor general, in a league of chuckers in 2025. We see better efficiency.. this should be his best opportunity yet to match his off court work with maturity and experience. We can double back then.

[dckingsfan]

Point forward is the term you’re looking for. No, Deni has zero framework to be a teams pg

This is why we’re lucky to have scoot. He will be the ultimate Nash-lite (I was mocked before, mock me again idgaf) with shooters and athleticism surrounding him. Blazers have a sexy future

Wondering why you see Scoot as Nash-like (not just Nash-extremely-lite).

Nash was a career .428 3-point shooter and was over .400 in his first two seasons. Scoot thus far is a .340 3-point shooter. Nash shot .904 from the FT line, thus far Scoot is shooting .793 over his first two seasons.

Nash could get ANYWHERE on the floor whenever he wanted. He was also amazing at running the break. Scoot, not so much thus far.

So far, the only good comparison is that they were/are both weak defenders.

I am not hating on Scoot, maybe he will get there (I see him as a solid backup PG in the league).

But dang, he has a very long way to go from Nash-extremely-lite to Nash-lite. Just saying... then again - cool to be a fan. fan or fanatic (n.) A person marked or motivated by an extreme, unreasoning enthusiasm, as for a cause. Go Scoot...

yeah...Steve Nash is a weird comp for Scoot

Dereck Rose-lite....Westbrook-lite....those would be closer although comparing Scoot to an MVP-level PG is over the top at this point. Baron Davis-lite might be closer although Davis was an unapologetic chucker and Scoot isn't; Davis could use both hands though, Scoot can't at this point.

a rich man's Jarrett Jack? rich man's Jerryd Bayless?

a bigger, less explosive Robert Pack?

This. Honestly, if he could just keep improving to become a net positive on the court, that would be huge. I think/hope he will get to that level and pretty soon. I do think he needs solid defenders around him that can knock down the three. We might luck out with Camara, Thybulle, Deni and (hopefully returning to form) Grant. And maybe a miracle could happen and Sharpe starts playing D and knocking down 3s.

[dckingsfan]

Point forward is the term you’re looking for. No, Deni has zero framework to be a teams pg

This is why we’re lucky to have scoot. He will be the ultimate Nash-lite (I was mocked before, mock me again idgaf) with shooters and athleticism surrounding him. Blazers have a sexy future

Wondering why you see Scoot as Nash-like (not just Nash-extremely-lite).

Nash was a career .428 3-point shooter and was over .400 in his first two seasons. Scoot thus far is a .340 3-point shooter. Nash shot .904 from the FT line, thus far Scoot is shooting .793 over his first two seasons.

Nash could get ANYWHERE on the floor whenever he wanted. He was also amazing at running the break. Scoot, not so much thus far.

So far, the only good comparison is that they were/are both weak defenders.

I am not hating on Scoot, maybe he will get there (I see him as a solid backup PG in the league).

But dang, he has a very long way to go from Nash-extremely-lite to Nash-lite. Just saying... then again - cool to be a fan. fan or fanatic (n.) A person marked or motivated by an extreme, unreasoning enthusiasm, as for a cause. Go Scoot...

I see Scoot in the Nash/CP3 framework due to his playing style more than the numbers etc.

I like Scoot to shoot for their strengths, ball handling/setting up everyone, getting the team going. He showed a major boost in this area in a lot of games this year.

I hated the Westbrook/rose talk. Scoot has nice dunks and can drive, but I think he can be a smarter player
Than those two.

Anyway, it’s just my gut, I expect a huge season from
A starting scoot this year. 18/8 over 30 min. An elite floor general, in a league of chuckers in 2025. We see better efficiency.. this should be his best opportunity yet to match his off court work with maturity and experience. We can double back then.

Let's do that... here is to Scoot making the all-star squad next season, go Scoot!!!

Maybe he will develop the handles AND midrange game AND 3 point shot AND A/TO ratio of Nash or CP3.

[Tim Lehrbach]

I'm still hoping Scoot learns the Eric Snow approach to being an undersized and questionably skilled but speedy guard: just be all over the place and don't shoot too much. Scoot brings a lot more to the table in terms of off-the-dribble creation than Snow ever did, so the upside is higher, but he could learn a lot from that example of how to make yourself essential in the league despite obvious limitations.

[Blazers20]

Gone are the days of the true point guards and you no longer see the crazy assist numbers like you did with Magic and Stockton. Players no longer average double digit assists like they used to.