Lillard: I don't want to be a part of a rebuild.

[HoopsFanAZ]

Simons (and Nas + overpay) for OG + filler is NOT going to make some Blazers fans real happy. Ant is a 3-pointer and a bucket. He’s really frickin’ good. Dame-lite. BUT for roster construction — 3&D with switchable and age (OG at 25) — after Bridges, OG fits best.

Bridges is an overpay — an offer they couldn’t refuse of Ant + Nas + PICKS PICKS PICKS …
Siakam is going to get paid and is more PF than SF … not quite the defender
DDR is older, lack of 3’s less defense than others
Brown would be more of a trade for Dame than to play beside him

OG fits and can opt out in a year … Toronto needs to make some player and salary moves. It’s not the BIG move with the name — Brown and Bridges — but it’s a strong move to win.

Dame-Scoot-Sharpe
OG-Grant
Nurkic

Thybulle, Trendon, Murray, Eubanks, Walker, Rupert, Badji … still work to do on the bench

I’m picking this hill to die on. That team has a shot with OG making forward a strength NOT a weakness.

I don't agree with your glowing appraisal of Simons. He does a few things well but overall he's a flawed player with some significant limitations, and I think he has narrow value across the 30 NBA team landscape

that said, what he does bring to the floor might appeal to 3 or 4 teams, and Toronto might be one of those. They may be losing FVV and will have a hole at PG. Ant has generally poor PG skills and vision, but they may be good enough to plug into Toronto's starting lineup. Between the two of them, Siakam and Barnes averaged nearly 11 assists/game last season so the Raptors have good facilitation skills at wing, and Ant's catch & shoot ability would complement that. Ant + future 1st, top-7 to top-10 protected seems fair

the problem is Masai Ujiri. There seems to be widespread belief out there that 29 NBA front offices have found him nearly impossible to work with. I've seen rumors that the Blazer front office got pretty sour about Ujiri last year when they were discussing an OG trade for #7

Masai Ujiri is a royal pain. I would expect an overpay in picks, absolutely. As to a “glowing” description of Simons? Really frickin’ good for a 20+ ppg … 24-year-old athletic guard whose 3 level scoring has definitely improved … and approaching 50-40-90 efficiency is uncommon … sooooo, glowing? And I agree with all of his limitations and likely limitations moving forward … we disagree on his value at least a bit.

[JasonStern]

Hopefully Dame's game doesn't fall of a cliff suddenly. Most players are done by age 33. Hopefully he ages like Steve Nash, and is not holding the team back like an old Kobe Bryant.

Dame will decline into an inefficient chucker. Sucks but father time is undefeated. That's part of what I love about Jokic's game. He doesn't jump more than 6" off of the ground or do anything remotely athletic. Good for not breaking down. Effort wise, he carries his team. But pushing yourself athleticism wise, he has the game of a middle aged diner worker praying for her cigarette break.

[Norm2953]

Toronto (Masai) is notoriously difficult to deal with for he's likely going to ask for Scoot
in a trade for OG.

I am going to experience a lot of schadenfreude next summer if Toronto loses either or both in free agency.

if

It'd be interesting if either OG/Pascal left next summer and when it came time to try to do a S/T,
if the other team laughed in Masai's face.

[Wizenheimer]

Masai Ujiri is a royal pain. I would expect an overpay in picks, absolutely. As to a “glowing” description of Simons? Really frickin’ good for a 20+ ppg … 24-year-old athletic guard whose 3 level scoring has definitely improved … and approaching 50-40-90 efficiency is uncommon … sooooo, glowing? And I agree with all of his limitations and likely limitations moving forward … we disagree on his value at least a bit.

I first assess Ant by what he is in the eyeball test:

He's an undersized SG with poor PG skills who lacks the size to play wing and guard SF's. He has extremely limited versatility and the reality is he may be the worst perimeter defender in the NBA...and yes, he's that bad

statistically, Simons does nothing at anywhere close to an elite level (using BBREF):

* he ranked 71st out of 149 qualified players in 3ptFG%
* 67th out of 123 qualified players in eFG%
* 108th out of 190 in PER
* 107th out of 190 in TS%
* 182nd out of 245 in FT Rate
* 189th out of 190 in rebound rate
* 70th out of 190 in assist rate
* 164th out of 190 in winshares/48
* 141st out of 190 in BPM

but he was 58th in salary

the NBA average for PER is 15.0; Ant's mark was 14.8. The NBA average for winshare/48 is set at .100; Ant's mark was .054. He is relatively young at 24 so there is probably more upside. But 24 is fast approaching prime years and Ant has been in the NBA for 5 seasons. And he's got consistent minutes in predictable patterns for four of those seasons. So he's a seasoned 24

what I'm seeing is that Ant advocates are mirroring exactly the arguments that CJ advocates made for years. The only difference is there does not appear to be much opposition to trading Ant like there was with CJ

[NCHeels2008]

Hopefully Dame's game doesn't fall of a cliff suddenly. Most players are done by age 33. Hopefully he ages like Steve Nash, and is not holding the team back like an old Kobe Bryant.

Kobe declined moreso due to the Achilles than age, his age 34 season was still pretty special

[GEE]

I heard that Dame was back from France now. I just hope that he and Cronin can just get together and make the tough decision already. Cronin has called Dame's bluff by introducing three rookies to the team, so I think it's time for them to have that "discussion".

I would bet Cronin already has offers, but we need that list now. Is it only two teams? Gotta add at least one or two more, right? Just want to move on so bad and I hope to hear somthing soon.

[NCHeels2008]

Masai Ujiri is a royal pain. I would expect an overpay in picks, absolutely. As to a “glowing” description of Simons? Really frickin’ good for a 20+ ppg … 24-year-old athletic guard whose 3 level scoring has definitely improved … and approaching 50-40-90 efficiency is uncommon … sooooo, glowing? And I agree with all of his limitations and likely limitations moving forward … we disagree on his value at least a bit.

I first assess Ant by what he is in the eyeball test:

He's an undersized SG with poor PG skills who lacks the size to play wing and guard SF's. He has extremely limited versatility and the reality is he may be the worst perimeter defender in the NBA...and yes, he's that bad

statistically, Simons does nothing at anywhere close to an elite level (using BBREF):

* he ranked 71st out of 149 qualified players in 3ptFG%
* 67th out of 123 qualified players in eFG%
* 108th out of 190 in PER
* 107th out of 190 in TS%
* 182nd out of 245 in FT Rate
* 189th out of 190 in rebound rate
* 70th out of 190 in assist rate
* 164th out of 190 in winshares/48
* 141st out of 190 in BPM

but he was 58th in salary

the NBA average for PER is 15.0; Ant's mark was 14.8. The NBA average for winshare/48 is set at .100; Ant's mark was .054. He is relatively young at 24 so there is probably more upside. But 24 is fast approaching prime years and Ant has been in the NBA for 5 seasons. And he's got consistent minutes in predictable patterns for four of those seasons. So he's a seasoned 24

what I'm seeing is that Ant advocates are mirroring exactly the arguments that CJ advocates made for years. The only difference is there does not appear to be much opposition to trading Ant like there was with CJ

I think the best (basketball not trade logistics) fits for him would be Milwaukee, Dallas, Lakers, Charlotte, Orlando. Ideally you'd want him alongside a big playmaker/bigger wing defenders not someone Dame's size.

[Norm2953]

I heard that Dame was back from France now. I just hope that he and Cronin can just get together and make the tough decision already. Cronin has called Dame's bluff by introducing three rookies to the team, so I think it's time for them to have that "discussion".

I would bet Cronin already has offers, but we need that list now. Is it only two teams? Gotta add at least one or two more, right? Just want to move on so bad and I hope to hear somthing soon.

Both sides are playing their games for there are likely more than two teams out there who would have
some interest.

I'm eager to see the new players in the rookie league. Sharpe will likely get some work in with the rookies
but whether he plays is unknown. It'll be interesting to see the improvements (if any) in second year players
like Walker and Badji

[Sinobas]

If Dame demands a trade, Grant is probably a goner too. Maybe he can be sign/traded to a team who is already over the cap? We'd pretty much need a whole knew front court.

[m0ng0]

I guarantee you if Dame simply says this "I have loved my time in Portland and am eternity grateful to all my friends, fans, teammates and the city of Portland for all your years of support, but the time has come to move on, start a new chapter in my life and career so I am asking for a trade, and by the way I don't have a no trade clause"

Every GM in the league says hmmm, and plays that hypothetical shell game in their heads, especially if it happened before free agency starts. Somebody will get real creative and generate a package that would be amazing.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

I guess we will see but I still think all the smoke is just media bluster because this story creates so much user engagement.


Cronin going to sell Lillard on the idea that Scoot and Sharpe are prodigious ahead-of-their-ages 19 year olds that will both help save his legs and be tradable assets if the right trade becomes available and so are more valuable here than for what the market is currently offering. Dame said Sharpe was a special case for a 19 year old and I think we are betting on us being able to recreate that feeling with Scoot.

Then he is going to make a move with Simons to bring in another vet that fits better, likely some forward/big depth. Resign Grant, use the TPE on a win-now player.

Banking on our record last year not really reflecting who we are as a team, that we lost a lot of close games and tanked a bunch more and that we are solidly a playoff team when healthy.

All that is of course a long-shot at a title but I think that will be the sales pitch to Lillard, who doesn't want to have to ask for a trade but is tempted right now by Miami looking like the place he can single-handedly "put over the top" and get some glory and recognition for being the final piece to that puzzle.

IF all that fails and we are not in the playoff mix at the trade deadline then I think things will get a little funky. There is a good argument to be made that if we put on our most objective hats and ignore the deep emotional connection between Lillard and the fans that now is a better time to move, but ignoring that human factor is not really something I think the franchise can or will do. But I do think we are on the last hurrah here pretty much any way you slice it.

[Norm2953]

Portland sports fan is a unique beast for the fan bases in other cities with more than one sports team
are going to understand the need for changes when the time comes.

It'll likely end like it did with Russell Wilson and how amazing it would be if Portland got a return
from a Dame trade that was equal to what the Seahawks got.

[m0ng0]

Portland sports fan is a unique beast for the fan bases in other cities with more than one sports team
are going to understand the need for changes when the time comes.

It'll likely end like it did with Russell Wilson and how amazing it would be if Portland got a return
from a Dame trade that was equal to what the Seahawks got.

EXACTLY!!!

[GEE]

I heard that Dame was back from France now. I just hope that he and Cronin can just get together and make the tough decision already. Cronin has called Dame's bluff by introducing three rookies to the team, so I think it's time for them to have that "discussion".

I would bet Cronin already has offers, but we need that list now. Is it only two teams? Gotta add at least one or two more, right? Just want to move on so bad and I hope to hear somthing soon.

Both sides are playing their games for there are likely more than two teams out there who would have
some interest.

I'm eager to see the new players in the rookie league. Sharpe will likely get some work in with the rookies
but whether he plays is unknown. It'll be interesting to see the improvements (if any) in second year players
like Walker and Badji

Games indeed, while leaking nothing to the outside, leaving just speculation for now. One thing I must believe though... Cronin is going to do what is best for this franchise first, himself second and Dame third.

What happens with Dame will certainly be of major discussion over the next few days, with several hyopthetical trades and teams. Fun for some. Here's my Dame waits 2 more weeks, pisses Cronin off and things don't end peacefully trade:

Blazers trade: Dame / Nurkic
Hornets trade: Hayward / Williams / 2024 FRP / FFRP
T-Wolves trade: KAT / Conley

Blazers get: Hayward(1yr remaining) / Williams / Conley(1yr remaining) / 2024 FRP(CHA) / FFRP
Hornets get: KAT
T-Wolves get: Dame / Nurkic

I like this one, but I know most won't see the beauty in it.

[GEE]

Guess no one likes the idea of trading Dame to Minnesota. I just had a thought to share: I was thinking back to when and how Lebron left Miami. Just made me think of the very real possibility of a Dame power move, by going straight to Jody and demanding XYZ happen, knowing Cronin does not wish the same for this franchise.

Just a thought really, and it would be a final card for Dame to play (going over Cronin's head), to potentially get his way. But that (Very hypothetical) gamble could sorta backfire, like it did for Lebron in Miami. Could end worse in Dame's case if same scenario were to happen though.

[BlazersBroncos]

After all Dame has brought this franchise we are not sending him to the gulag that is Minnesota.

[Blazinaway]

After all Dame has brought this franchise we are not sending him to the gulag that is Minnesota.

I think we should and would respect his wishes where he would prefer to go, I think Dame is a class act and good guy but for me its time for both parties to move on. I have voiced very clearly, the past year especially, how tiresome for me personally (before the tank) the brand of basketball the Blazers played with Dame had become, now I don't put all that on Dame but we can talk about this for a long time but it is what it is - ugly and boring to watch IMO. He's 32/33 and his style is not going to change much. If you like the style we play then I will respect your view, I don't and I watched my fewest number of Blazer games ever in 25 years last year. I personally think Dame staying will slow the growth of guys like Scoot and Shaedon and a faster, more interesting, "for me at least", style of play. Flame away, I do not hate Dame - he seems a really good guy, but I prefer change now especially with the recent drat picks we have been very fortunate to have.

[monopoman]

Masai Ujiri is a royal pain. I would expect an overpay in picks, absolutely. As to a “glowing” description of Simons? Really frickin’ good for a 20+ ppg … 24-year-old athletic guard whose 3 level scoring has definitely improved … and approaching 50-40-90 efficiency is uncommon … sooooo, glowing? And I agree with all of his limitations and likely limitations moving forward … we disagree on his value at least a bit.

I first assess Ant by what he is in the eyeball test:

He's an undersized SG with poor PG skills who lacks the size to play wing and guard SF's. He has extremely limited versatility and the reality is he may be the worst perimeter defender in the NBA...and yes, he's that bad

statistically, Simons does nothing at anywhere close to an elite level (using BBREF):

* he ranked 71st out of 149 qualified players in 3ptFG%
* 67th out of 123 qualified players in eFG%
* 108th out of 190 in PER
* 107th out of 190 in TS%
* 182nd out of 245 in FT Rate
* 189th out of 190 in rebound rate
* 70th out of 190 in assist rate
* 164th out of 190 in winshares/48
* 141st out of 190 in BPM

but he was 58th in salary

the NBA average for PER is 15.0; Ant's mark was 14.8. The NBA average for winshare/48 is set at .100; Ant's mark was .054. He is relatively young at 24 so there is probably more upside. But 24 is fast approaching prime years and Ant has been in the NBA for 5 seasons. And he's got consistent minutes in predictable patterns for four of those seasons. So he's a seasoned 24

what I'm seeing is that Ant advocates are mirroring exactly the arguments that CJ advocates made for years. The only difference is there does not appear to be much opposition to trading Ant like there was with CJ

How is 24 fast approaching? He is 4 years away from when most deem the prime at about 28, most players start to hit the best they will ever be then.

Not really sure what this analysis provides I bet most wanted him to make a bigger jump this year he didn't. He still was pretty damn effective though and likely will be better than CJ all things considered.

Guess no one likes the idea of trading Dame to Minnesota. I just had a thought to share: I was thinking back to when and how Lebron left Miami. Just made me think of the very real possibility of a Dame power move, by going straight to Jody and demanding XYZ happen, knowing Cronin does not wish the same for this franchise.

Just a thought really, and it would be a final card for Dame to play (going over Cronin's head), to potentially get his way. But that (Very hypothetical) gamble could sorta backfire, like it did for Lebron in Miami. Could end worse in Dame's case if same scenario were to happen though.

The difference was LBJ was a free agent and Miami had the cap space to offer him a contract. I don't think the Blazers would be super excited about sending Dame to a team that is going to try to play hardball. While we might do him a bit of a favor in that department I'm sure Dame will want the Blazers to receive good compensation.

He is under contract until the end of the 2024-2025 season we could make him stay on the team if we wanted. Now I think management will try to work with him, but again this notion that we should just ship Dame to the team he wants no matter what is ridiculous. Especially when MANY other teams where Dame could win could make a nice offer, it's not like there is only one team in the NBA where Dame is going to a winning situation.

This is just how this **** goes, he does care about his reputation in Portland especially since he has done a lot for the community in this area. So him going scorched earth and demanding a trade to one specific team which then knows they have us over a barrel is one easy way to piss off Blazer fans for a VERY LONG TIME.

Especially when 99% of Blazer fans have supported him in everything he has ever done.

[Wizenheimer]

Spoiler:

Masai Ujiri is a royal pain. I would expect an overpay in picks, absolutely. As to a “glowing” description of Simons? Really frickin’ good for a 20+ ppg … 24-year-old athletic guard whose 3 level scoring has definitely improved … and approaching 50-40-90 efficiency is uncommon … sooooo, glowing? And I agree with all of his limitations and likely limitations moving forward … we disagree on his value at least a bit.

I first assess Ant by what he is in the eyeball test:

He's an undersized SG with poor PG skills who lacks the size to play wing and guard SF's. He has extremely limited versatility and the reality is he may be the worst perimeter defender in the NBA...and yes, he's that bad

statistically, Simons does nothing at anywhere close to an elite level (using BBREF):

* he ranked 71st out of 149 qualified players in 3ptFG%
* 67th out of 123 qualified players in eFG%
* 108th out of 190 in PER
* 107th out of 190 in TS%
* 182nd out of 245 in FT Rate
* 189th out of 190 in rebound rate
* 70th out of 190 in assist rate
* 164th out of 190 in winshares/48
* 141st out of 190 in BPM

but he was 58th in salary

the NBA average for PER is 15.0; Ant's mark was 14.8. The NBA average for winshare/48 is set at .100; Ant's mark was .054. He is relatively young at 24 so there is probably more upside. But 24 is fast approaching prime years and Ant has been in the NBA for 5 seasons. And he's got consistent minutes in predictable patterns for four of those seasons. So he's a seasoned 24

what I'm seeing is that Ant advocates are mirroring exactly the arguments that CJ advocates made for years. The only difference is there does not appear to be much opposition to trading Ant like there was with CJ

How is 24 fast approaching? He is 4 years away from when most deem the prime at about 28, most players start to hit the best they will ever be then.

Not really sure what this analysis provides I bet most wanted him to make a bigger jump this year he didn't. He still was pretty damn effective though and likely will be better than CJ all things considered..

I said fast approaching "prime years"...which I think is normally in the 25-30 range. I didn't say prime peak. He'll get better than he is. I'm skeptical he'll make a big leap forward though. Incremental improvements, although those can add up. He'll always be a major defensive liability though, and I'm not sure his offense offsets his defense

[3ammy3uck3ts]

How much cap space do you guys have? How far are you from the luxury tax?