Amick: Harden expands his list of preferred destinations to include Blazers

[JasonStern]

Honestly not worried that Dame + Harden can work offensively. More worried defensively. But if Dame + CJ is acceptable defensively...

The fact posters hate my views yet don't respond with arguments against my views kind of reaffirms my thoughts. If, and it is a big if as other teams can beat our offer, Portland wants Harden, it's a CJ/Nurkić/Trent + sweetener/filler package, which Portland can make. Should they? But you are not getting Harden for some Hood, Jones, 3 second round picks offer, so I do not get why anyone wastes their time proposing joke offers as opposed to fantasizing about if the Blazers did acquire Harden, what do we need to get the Lillard + Harden duo over the top?

Honestly I would not be the slightest bit surprised if Harden to Portland talks started and ended with Lillard. Be that in a trade or getting him to sign off. But I would bet money that once the Lillard era is over, at least one poster will ask "what if prime Lillard and prime Harden played together?" Kind of doubting a "what if Dame and CJ played together forever?" thread gets posted.

[SalemStoner]

If we keep Nurk, Covington and Lillard then I see this as a no brainer. Lillard is frightening off the ball.

[GEE]

Olshey's getting no sleep tonight, cause even if the cost is cheap, this is not an easy decision. This is as sexy as it gets when it comes to a trade, but what about the good Blazer culture, and team chemistry. It could work, but it also could fail miserably.

Harden is a headache for Houston right now, that they have publicly stated they want to move on from. I also don't think other teams on his list, like the Philly, have offered much and that is why the list is expanding.

From the tone of the previous posts, it doesn't sound like a matter of if you would do it, but more of a, how much are we willing to give up. Also, I see no sign that Houston is rebuilding. If Olshey can get Harden for a low-ball package, then awesome, do it, but if it takes more, than it gets complicated.

CJ / Kanter / Little / GTJ / cj / FFRP

[PDXKnight]

I could see it working if we give cj + Zco + a bunch of future unprotected firsts (3-5) for harden. Now giving up that many is risky so it would depend on how we follow up but how else would we get this good of a shot at a title?

[whatchaknow]

I could see it working if we give cj + Zco + a bunch of future unprotected firsts (3-5) for harden. Now giving up that many is risky so it would depend on how we follow up but how else would we get this good of a shot at a title?

Look if it blows up in the blazers face they end up with no championship and trading picks that could be of value, if they don’t make that trade we end up with no championship and at best a bunch of middling role players with those picks. I for one am sick of surrounding dame with nas little, ant simons and 2nd round picks. Not to mention if it blows up and doesn’t work we could recoup some of those picks by dealing a hopefully extended harden and/or lillard. Those caliber players don’t lose trade value. So I’m with you these shots don’t come around often for teams like Portland

[PDXKnight]

I could see it working if we give cj + Zco + a bunch of future unprotected firsts (3-5) for harden. Now giving up that many is risky so it would depend on how we follow up but how else would we get this good of a shot at a title?

Look if it blows up in the blazers face they end up with no championship and trading picks that could be of value, if they don’t make that trade we end up with no championship and at best a bunch of middling role players with those picks. I for one am sick of surrounding dame with nas little, ant simons and 2nd round picks. Not to mention if it blows up and doesn’t work we could recoup some of those picks by dealing a hopefully extended harden and/or lillard. Those caliber players don’t lose trade value. So I’m with you these shots don’t come around often for teams like Portland

Exactly. Preferably it’d be 3 picks instead of 5 but I think harden, even with his issues, is worth a shot here. He’s top 5 caliber cj is top 50 very different levels of players

Of course defense wins championships but it’s not like we lose any defense from cj to harden. And I think with that backcourt we can attract plenty of suitors to take less than theyre worth in free agency

[DusterBuster]

I could see it working if we give cj + Zco + a bunch of future unprotected firsts (3-5) for harden. Now giving up that many is risky so it would depend on how we follow up but how else would we get this good of a shot at a title?

Look if it blows up in the blazers face they end up with no championship and trading picks that could be of value, if they don’t make that trade we end up with no championship and at best a bunch of middling role players with those picks. I for one am sick of surrounding dame with nas little, ant simons and 2nd round picks. Not to mention if it blows up and doesn’t work we could recoup some of those picks by dealing a hopefully extended harden and/or lillard. Those caliber players don’t lose trade value. So I’m with you these shots don’t come around often for teams like Portland

Exactly. Preferably it’d be 3 picks instead of 5 but I think harden, even with his issues, is worth a shot here. He’s top 5 caliber cj is top 50 very different levels of players

Of course defense wins championships but it’s not like we lose any defense from cj to harden. And I think with that backcourt we can attract plenty of suitors to take less than theyre worth in free agency

Keep in mind, Houston already owns PORs first rounder this offseason. A deal could include the protections on that pick being lowered or removed.

That said, I just don’t see any deal where Houston doesn’t demand Trent back.

[PDXKnight]

Look if it blows up in the blazers face they end up with no championship and trading picks that could be of value, if they don’t make that trade we end up with no championship and at best a bunch of middling role players with those picks. I for one am sick of surrounding dame with nas little, ant simons and 2nd round picks. Not to mention if it blows up and doesn’t work we could recoup some of those picks by dealing a hopefully extended harden and/or lillard. Those caliber players don’t lose trade value. So I’m with you these shots don’t come around often for teams like Portland

Exactly. Preferably it’d be 3 picks instead of 5 but I think harden, even with his issues, is worth a shot here. He’s top 5 caliber cj is top 50 very different levels of players

Of course defense wins championships but it’s not like we lose any defense from cj to harden. And I think with that backcourt we can attract plenty of suitors to take less than theyre worth in free agency

Keep in mind, Houston already owns PORs first rounder this offseason. A deal could include the protections on that pick being lowered or removed.

That said, I just don’t see any deal where Houston doesn’t demand Trent back.

Might be an ideal time to deal Trent if that was their demand. Who knows what his extension would look like but his rfa status in 2021 will hinder us on our cap money anyhow and I’d hate to have another Allen crabbe contract on our hands

[DusterBuster]

Exactly. Preferably it’d be 3 picks instead of 5 but I think harden, even with his issues, is worth a shot here. He’s top 5 caliber cj is top 50 very different levels of players

Of course defense wins championships but it’s not like we lose any defense from cj to harden. And I think with that backcourt we can attract plenty of suitors to take less than theyre worth in free agency

Keep in mind, Houston already owns PORs first rounder this offseason. A deal could include the protections on that pick being lowered or removed.

That said, I just don’t see any deal where Houston doesn’t demand Trent back.

Might be an ideal time to deal Trent if that was their demand. Who knows what his extension would look like but his rfa status in 2021 will hinder us on our cap money anyhow and I’d hate to have another Allen crabbe contract on our hands

Exactly what I’ve been thinking. I really like Trent and his potential, but he’s gonna get PAID this summer. Right now he’s still an exciting young talent on a controllable contract for a team. Once he gets that new deal, he’s no longer as valuable to teams in general.

If we have a deal like this where he’s coveted by another team for a Star, that’s the kind of time to cash in on players like him.

[DusterBuster]

Honestly not worried that Dame + Harden can work offensively. More worried defensively. But if Dame + CJ is acceptable defensively...

The fact posters hate my views yet don't respond with arguments against my views kind of reaffirms my thoughts. If, and it is a big if as other teams can beat our offer, Portland wants Harden, it's a CJ/Nurkić/Trent + sweetener/filler package, which Portland can make. Should they? But you are not getting Harden for some Hood, Jones, 3 second round picks offer, so I do not get why anyone wastes their time proposing joke offers as opposed to fantasizing about if the Blazers did acquire Harden, what do we need to get the Lillard + Harden duo over the top?

Honestly I would not be the slightest bit surprised if Harden to Portland talks started and ended with Lillard. Be that in a trade or getting him to sign off. But I would bet money that once the Lillard era is over, at least one poster will ask "what if prime Lillard and prime Harden played together?" Kind of doubting a "what if Dame and CJ played together forever?" thread gets posted.

No one freaking “hates your views” lmao.

I don’t think the Blazers should move Nurk in a deal, but I don’t dismiss it out of hand either. It depends on what the final framework of a deal looks like and if Dame would ok it.

Let’s not kid ourselves, a deal this massive and moving at least one core guy (CJ or Nurk) doesn’t happen without Dame’s blessing... especially when it’s guys he’s as close with as those two.

[BlazersBroncos]

Exactly what I’ve been thinking. I really like Trent and his potential, but he’s gonna get PAID this summer. Right now he’s still an exciting young talent on a controllable contract for a team. Once he gets that new deal, he’s no longer as valuable to teams in general.

If we have a deal like this where he’s coveted by another team for a Star, that’s the kind of time to cash in on players like him.

This is my thinking exactly. Cash on GTJ and ZC before we have to pay them.

There is a top 5 player in the league who vocally said he would welcome a trade to this small backwater of a market. This NEVER happens to the Blazers. Never, ever, ever. We have a chance to build a superteam and the idea that some middle tier prospects like ZC or GTJ should cause our team to even blink is just crazy to me.

I hate Hardens style and think he is a douche but at the end of the day the move puts us into contention in a way we have not seen since the early 90's. (Yes, the squad that lost game 7 to LAL could have won the chip, but that team was built for a single year run more-or-less)

We need to offer anything it takes outside Dame and Nurkic to make this happen, and if they want CJ + Nurkic, you do that as well.

Ideally, the deal I would offer would be:

James Harden
PJ Tucker

FOR

CJ McCollum
Zach Collins
Gary Trent Jr
Nassir Little
Anfernee Simons
Protection Removal 2021 FRP
2023 FRP - Unprotected
2025 FRP - Lotto Protected

That leaves us w/

G - Damian Lillard / Vet Min (SHABAZZ!)
G - James Harden / Derrick Jones Jr / Other CJ Guy
F - Robert Covington / Rodney Hood
F - PJ Tucker / Carmelo Anthony / Harry Giles
C - Jusuf Nurkic / Enes Kanter / Harry Giles

That's a team with a better championship prospect than we could have ever imagined going into this season.

You have to make an offer. This is a opportunity that comes around once every 50 years.

[GEE]

Portland has the strip clubs, to make this deal work. Joking aside, I do think this may actually happen, but it MUST be for the right price. I was looking over the Rockets roster, and they still have a bunch of smaller wings. Adding CJ, GTJ, Little and hopefully Kanter may not look like a great pickup, but would depend on Houston believing in Wall/CJ pairing going forward. They would have a nice core IMO, and a heap of players that have fair trade value, that could easily be shopped. Houston could be very competitive again by next year with this trade. Biggest win for them is, they get to move on from the Harden headache that they've had for too long now. We would need to find a cheap big and still remain under the lux I think, but would this have a chance against the Lakers?

Dame / Simons
Harden / Hood
ROCO / Jones
Melo / Collins
Nurkic / Giles

[DusterBuster]

Exactly what I’ve been thinking. I really like Trent and his potential, but he’s gonna get PAID this summer. Right now he’s still an exciting young talent on a controllable contract for a team. Once he gets that new deal, he’s no longer as valuable to teams in general.

If we have a deal like this where he’s coveted by another team for a Star, that’s the kind of time to cash in on players like him.

This is my thinking exactly. Cash on GTJ and ZC before we have to pay them.

There is a top 5 player in the league who vocally said he would welcome a trade to this small backwater of a market. This NEVER happens to the Blazers. Never, ever, ever. We have a chance to build a superteam and the idea that some middle tier prospects like ZC or GTJ should cause our team to even blink is just crazy to me.

I hate Hardens style and think he is a douche but at the end of the day the move puts us into contention in a way we have not seen since the early 90's. (Yes, the squad that lost game 7 to LAL could have won the chip, but that team was built for a single year run more-or-less)

We need to offer anything it takes outside Dame and Nurkic to make this happen, and if they want CJ + Nurkic, you do that as well.

Ideally, the deal I would offer would be:

James Harden
PJ Tucker

FOR

CJ McCollum
Zach Collins
Gary Trent Jr
Nassir Little
Anfernee Simons
Protection Removal 2021 FRP
2023 FRP - Unprotected
2025 FRP - Lotto Protected

That leaves us w/

G - Damian Lillard / Vet Min (SHABAZZ!)
G - James Harden / Derrick Jones Jr / Other CJ Guy
F - Robert Covington / Rodney Hood
F - PJ Tucker / Carmelo Anthony / Harry Giles
C - Jusuf Nurkic / Enes Kanter / Harry Giles

That's a team with a better championship prospect than we could have ever imagined going into this season.

You have to make an offer. This is a opportunity that comes around once every 50 years.

You could throw in a pick swap option for Houston in 2024 too.

[BlazersBroncos]

You could throw in a pick swap option for Houston in 2024 too.

Yep, I would be fine with that.

One thing that I believe is understated is the emotional maturity of Dame which, in conjunction with his tremendous will to win, makes him a great fit to pair with Harden IMO. He will do what is necessary to win, and if Harden is playing in a selfish or immature way is the type to speak with him man-to-man and teammate-to-teammate rather than start a understated locker room insurrection as CP3 seemed to do. Or just up his selfishness to combat Harden as Westy seemed to do.

Playing it safe is for skydiving, not basketball. Go big or go out in round 2.

[GEE]

If the cost beyond CJ is too high, I easily pass, but we shouldn't have to offer up a ton. A fair package IMO would be a near All-star talent: CJ, Two solid young prospects: GTJ & Little, Healthy backup C on short deal as filler: Kanter, and a FRP in 202? as sweetener. Anything more... PASS.

[PDXKnight]

If the cost beyond CJ is too high, I easily pass, but we shouldn't have to offer up a ton. A fair package IMO would be a near All-star talent: CJ, Two solid young prospects: GTJ & Little, Healthy backup C on short deal as filler: Kanter, and a FRP in 202? as sweetener. Anything more... PASS.

I think we gotta muster up firsts, that’s the only way we get it done aside from adding Nurkic but if we add 2 of our top 3 players it’s arguably not worth it as a harden move clearly represents championship/win now ambitions.

[GEE]

I just don't imagine the other 5 teams on his "preferred destinations" list are offering anything better than what I suggested. Hate to lose Kanter, but he's not hard to replace if Giles gets his due, and if Collins looks promising by the halfway point, we're fine. Likely a vet min big pickup for depth only.

I quoted preferred destination because it made me wonder for a sec. What does that even mean? Is Harden saying he will play differently for these listed teams, or is the list just a guide for the Rockets so they can make him happy? Maybe it's just help for his agent, to get something done, IDK.

[BNM]

DCC and Hood are trade restricted until 2/5 and 3/5, respectively. It would be almost impossible for Blazers to make a deal that didn't include 1 or both these players.

Not that I see... CJ+Zach+Little or Simons equals the salary needed..... It's not even close to impossible CJ+Rookie scale contracts gets you there real quick.

If we trade any of Lillard, CJ, Nurk, or Zach, we are deconstructing our team. Before we do that we have to make sure we are a certain contender after the trade. IOW, we have to have a team that will beat the Lakers.

Upgrading Lillard or CJ doesn't improve us that much. We will still need Nurk and Zach just as much as we need them now to complete our current team, which is already a doubtful contender. The only thing the upgrade improves is playmaking because Harden would be our PG and we wouldn't need to hope for a 30yo PG to improve his playmaking. I don't believe the difference between Lillard's and Harden's playmaking closes the gap on where we are and where we need to be. We will still need Nurk and Zach's complementary skills to give us any chance.

You are way, way, WAY overvaluing Zach Collins. His upside is, at best, solid role player. He will never be anything more than a 5th best starter (if even that), and his ideal role is back up center. He's now entering his 4th NBA season and is a a below average NBA player. He has hands of stone, constantly bobbles passes when he's wide open under the basket allowing the defense to recover before he can gain control and get a shot off. He's a below average shooter, a below average rebounder for his size/position, usless as a passer and doesn't set good screens. His only useful skills are as a weak side help defender and occasionally guarding shorter, slower PFs (not a lot of those in today's NBA). He is foul prone and turnover prone. All of his advanced stats to date == below average NBA player. You don't make a below average player untouchable especially when a superstar is available.

He pretty much stinks at all the things Nurk does well. I'm all for keeping Nurk. He's a much better rebounder, a much better pick and roll defender, sets much better screens, and infitely better passer and more of a scoring treat than Zach. Harry Giles showed more in two pre-season games than Zach has shown in 3 seasons. Heck, even Meyers Leonard could catch a pass, set better screens, rebound better, was a better passer and could consistently knock down an open 3-pointer.

Plus, with Nurk and Kanter at the 5, Covington and Melo at the 4, plus Giles, how many minutes will Zach actually get (assuming he ever gets healthy)? If we can also get PJ Tucker thrown in in a potential Harden trade, Zach gets pushed further down the depth chart. I'd gladly include him in any trade that nets Portland a second superstar, or even a second All Star. Zack Collins will never be an NBA All Star, or all anything, not even close.

[BNM]

I just don't imagine the other 5 teams on his "preferred destinations" list are offering anything better than what I suggested. Hate to lose Kanter, but he's not hard to replace if Giles gets his due, and if Collins looks promising by the halfway point, we're fine. Likely a vet min big pickup for depth only.

I quoted preferred destination because it made me wonder for a sec. What does that even mean? Is Harden saying he will play differently for these listed teams, or is the list just a guide for the Rockets so they can make him happy? Maybe it's just help for his agent, to get something done, IDK.

Due to age, HOU would much rather have Zach Collins than Kanter, and since this trade puts POR solidly in win now mode, I'd rather give them Collins. Kanter for all his defensive flaws, is fine against other teams 2nd units, in fact, he feasts on them in the low post and on the offensive glass.

Plus, for those times when the match ups don't favor Kanter, Harry Giles gives can easily replace Zach Collins' minutes.

[BNM]

BTW, with all the flexibility both teams have, it should be possible to come up with a deal that works for both. Both teams have several TPEs and while I know those can't be combined, they can be used as separate transactions to fill out a roster should this end up being a 4 for 1 or 5 for 2 player trade. HOU also has 5 non-guaranteed contracts that they can cut to easily absorb more players coming back in a trade.

According to Basketball Insider, Harden has a 15% trade kicker. If I remember correctly, the way a trade kicker works is (unless that player agrees to waive it) it counts as incoming salary for the team receiving the player, but the team that signed the player is financially responsible for paying the trade kicker. In Harden's case, that's about $6.1 million this season and POR still has all of their $5.6 million available cash they can send back to HOU to ease their financial pain. Even if I'm wrong about the mechanics of the trade kicker (or if James agrees to waive it), I'm sure HOU wouldn't mind an extra $5.6 million coming their way.