Post Draft: 2025 Off Season Part 2- What's Next?

[DusterBuster]

Projecting the Blazers depth chart:

PG: Holiday / Scoot
SG: Sharp / FA or Rupert (?)
SF: Camara / Tice
PF: Deni / Grant
C: Clingan / Yang

On top of that, Billups has shown zero interest in benching vets, let alone vets that have the pedigree of Holiday or Grant. Grant is an olympian for team USA that won the gold in 2020. You're living in a dream world if you think Billups is going to start Sharpe at the expense of Grant going to the bench. The more likely rotation is going to be this if Grant stays on this team...

Holiday/Scoot
Camara/Sharpe
Deni/Tice
Grant/Murray
Clingan/Yang

I think this is both how Billups will go and how Billups should go. Maybe Cronin isn't done but he probably is...

Holiday/Scoot
Wing: Camara/Deni/Grant
Bench Wing: Sharpe/Thybulle
Clingan/Reath/Yang

Sharpe needs to play well (especially on D) to get his minutes. That is a 8 man rotation - so a bit thin. But Sharpe and Thybulle will get their minutes. The three forward rotation worked well. I trust Billups to get Grant onboard.

I am assuming RWIII is done and won't play meaningful minutes (awesome if it isn't the case).

I genuinely spaced RW is still on the team. Probably no harm done tho since at best he's good for like 25 games a year.

[DusterBuster]

Couldn't we just trade him for a bunch of scrubs we could just outright cut? And who is Tice? Is that some gimmick name for Thybulle? This is the last piece in the addition by subtraction formula get him gone for a bag of balls and some players we can cut or at least kinda want to be here

What's the difference of trading Grant for a bunch of scrubs that get cut vs cutting Grant himself? Same outcome in the end... but just harder to do since you need to have a team willing to take on Grant for scrubs. That list of teams willing to do that is small, if not just full-on not there.

And yes, Tice is short for Thybulle.

[dckingsfan]

On top of that, Billups has shown zero interest in benching vets, let alone vets that have the pedigree of Holiday or Grant. Grant is an olympian for team USA that won the gold in 2020. You're living in a dream world if you think Billups is going to start Sharpe at the expense of Grant going to the bench. The more likely rotation is going to be this if Grant stays on this team...

Holiday/Scoot
Camara/Sharpe
Deni/Tice
Grant/Murray
Clingan/Yang

I think this is both how Billups will go and how Billups should go. Maybe Cronin isn't done but he probably is...

Holiday/Scoot
Wing: Camara/Deni/Grant
Bench Wing: Sharpe/Thybulle
Clingan/Reath/Yang

Sharpe needs to play well (especially on D) to get his minutes. That is a 8 man rotation - so a bit thin. But Sharpe and Thybulle will get their minutes. The three forward rotation worked well. I trust Billups to get Grant onboard.

I am assuming RWIII is done and won't play meaningful minutes (awesome if it isn't the case).

I genuinely spaced RW is still on the team. Probably no harm done tho since at best he's good for like 25 games a year.

Cissoko & Rupert spend a lot of time in the D league (hope!) - probably Yang as well.

Murray just needs to go - he just isn't a very good basketball player, he doesn't defend well, doesn't have handles, doesn't shoot the 3 well... why they picked up his option is puzzling to me. Maybe they see something?

[Walton1one]

BOS interested in RW3?

I checked it’s hard to see a fit here? Unless, it was part of the deal w/Jrue and POR gets back one of the (3) players BOS drafted or some future draft picks, I can’t imagine they want to take back any more salary than they already saving from Simons, so if POR took a player or two back from them might get something valuable in return?

[DusterBuster]

I would be surprised if POR CUT\stretched Grant. too many years @ too much salary and they want a somewhat clean cap next year apparently (why they bought out Ayton instead of a trade)

My only hope is they can make a neutral deal for him, players in, no picks out

Something with LAL would seem to be most logical, Rui\Knecht\Kleber (preferred) or Vincent for Grant

Then maybe POR loops in CHA to offload Knecht (I seriously doubt POR values him on this team given his sub par defense) and gets back Jeffries (Schmitz is a fan) & rights to Sion James

Something like that, getting players back, nothing crazy value wise and no picks going out

But then again, with Cronin and his bizarre level of GM moves, who knows?

I just seriously doubt that Grant is gonna be OK with coming off the bench or even starting seeing less possessions coming his way he was unhappy at the end of the season, no reason to be happy now. I guess he could commiserate with Holiday

This would be what I want as well, but I just don't see how it can happen.

The problem with the Lakers scenario is that Grant really mucks up the Lakers books in any trade for him. Vanderbilt and Knecht are the only guys with contacts the same length as what Grant has. All the other guys like Vincent, Kleber and Rui are expiring contracts. Right now the Lakers books are pretty clean for making big splashes around Luka and I don't think Grant is good enough to really be worth eating into into their books to the tune of roughly 20mil (Grants deal minus the salaries of Vando and Dalton that year... and thats assuming the Lakers don't waive him for extra cap).

Considering the Lakers will have a supermax to pay Luka soon AND Reaves just turned down an extension, they likely are looking at a massive pay for him... plus they're just gonna blank check LeBron 50-60mil season-by-season until he's ready to call it... so no way you cut it does taking on Jerami's contract make sense for the Lakers outside of agents really swinging their weight around.

I could see as a possible Grant fit could be the Kings maybe in a straight swap for DeRozen? Portland buys out DeMar then, they save about 8mil per year and cut off one year of salary - so a shorter and cheaper buyout scenario there. DeRozen doesn't love it there, Kings have kicked the tires on Grant in the past and they're kind of a stupid franchise, so I could see that. Portland probably ends up kicking in 4 2nd rounders or something for the Kings trouble.

Maybe the Clippers for Bogdanovic and Jones Jr. Again, picks likely need to go Clippers way for that.

If the Poole experiment goes poorly in NO, maybe Grant could go there in a straight swap. Poole would need to be bought out tho immediately, Billups won't want him on the team.

I genuinely can't see a single team in the East he could goto. If you squint really hard, maybe the Bucks, but that would have to be a in-season trade of Grant for Kuzma and Portis.

Another mayyyyybe if you really try to imagine, you can see Grant to the Cavs for Strus and Lonzo (they've had interest in Grant before recently), but again, in-season, not summer cause of Lonzo just getting traded there.

[DusterBuster]

BOS interested in RW3?

I checked it’s hard to see a fit here? Unless, it was part of the deal w/Jrue and POR gets back one of the (3) players BOS drafted or some future draft picks, I can’t imagine they want to take back any more salary than they already saving from Simons, so if POR took a player or two back from them might get something valuable in return?

Lakers are more of a fit for RW3 than Boston is. Sounds like there may be a standing offer for RW on the Lakers desk if they want it.

[zzaj]

Honestly, I think Grant is valued less than we think by GMs. He doesn't pass and he doesn't rebound, and his USG largely consists of midrange ISOs. That's not a very coveted player type in the modern NBA. In fact, if you read the tea leaves this is exactly why he was unhappy with his "role" last year when he was healthy. In previous years he had carte blanche to attack defenders out at 20 feet, and the offense reduced those types of possessions last year...so his usefulness evaporated other than as a 3pt shooter and defender.

I think if he focuses on 3&D this year, he'll find a fit with any team.

[BlazersBroncos]

I would rather sit on Grant than attach any type of assets to move him - and I think outside basically Beal your not moving Grant w/o attaching picks.

The landscape of trades this offseason make me even less optimistic we can find a suitor. Its clear the new CBA has tanked non-stars on big deals. Grant is going nowhere - but we NEED to have the nuts to play him off the bench.

[DusterBuster]

I would rather sit on Grant than attach any type of assets to move him - and I think outside basically Beal your not moving Grant w/o attaching picks.

The landscape of trades this offseason make me even less optimistic we can find a suitor. Its clear the new CBA has tanked non-stars on big deals. Grant is going nowhere - but we NEED to have the nuts to play him off the bench.

I'm fine giving up 2nd rounders to move him, but I wouldn't move FRPs. That's why I'm still pro Ayton-ing him if thats the case.

I'm kind of surprised to see so much backlash to that idea. Blazers are going to be likely stuck with his deal to the bitter end anyway and it would be better to just let him be elsewhere for other guys to play. It doesn't hurt the Blazers in any way as far as getting FAs (which they never get anyhow) and it doesn't impact making trades any more negatively than keeping Grant does... so like... whatever? Pay him to go away and keep going into the youth movement.

[dckingsfan]

I would rather sit on Grant than attach any type of assets to move him - and I think outside basically Beal your not moving Grant w/o attaching picks.

The landscape of trades this offseason make me even less optimistic we can find a suitor. Its clear the new CBA has tanked non-stars on big deals. Grant is going nowhere - but we NEED to have the nuts to play him off the bench.

I'm fine giving up 2nd rounders to move him, but I wouldn't move FRPs. That's why I'm still pro Ayton-ing him if thats the case.

I'm kind of surprised to see so much backlash to that idea. Blazers are going to be likely stuck with his deal to the bitter end anyway and it would be better to just let him be elsewhere for other guys to play. It doesn't hurt the Blazers in any way as far as getting FAs (which they never get anyhow) and it doesn't impact making trades any more negatively than keeping Grant does... so like... whatever? Pay him to go away and keep going into the youth movement.

Yeah, I have to disagree with this thinking. He will be fine here as a rotational player. Even with last year's down year, he was certainly good enough to be a rotational player here - he is a really good 3 point shooter and helps space the floor when healthy. I don't think he needs to come off the bench when your wing rotation is Camara, Deni, Grant, Thybulle and Sharpe.

Let's see how Billups manages the minute load (not who starts). If you divide the minutes that is 28.8 per player. As a note, he played 32 minutes per game last year. If he play 26 - 30 it will be fine.

Also, as time moves on, he becomes more tradeable. If he wants to pull an Ayton, then you wait and make him give up $s. There is no reason to be rash and waive him at this point.

[DusterBuster]

I would rather sit on Grant than attach any type of assets to move him - and I think outside basically Beal your not moving Grant w/o attaching picks.

The landscape of trades this offseason make me even less optimistic we can find a suitor. Its clear the new CBA has tanked non-stars on big deals. Grant is going nowhere - but we NEED to have the nuts to play him off the bench.

I'm fine giving up 2nd rounders to move him, but I wouldn't move FRPs. That's why I'm still pro Ayton-ing him if thats the case.

I'm kind of surprised to see so much backlash to that idea. Blazers are going to be likely stuck with his deal to the bitter end anyway and it would be better to just let him be elsewhere for other guys to play. It doesn't hurt the Blazers in any way as far as getting FAs (which they never get anyhow) and it doesn't impact making trades any more negatively than keeping Grant does... so like... whatever? Pay him to go away and keep going into the youth movement.

Yeah, I have to disagree with this thinking. He will be fine here as a rotational player. Even with last year's down year, he was certainly good enough to be a rotational player here - he is a really good 3 point shooter and helps space the floor when healthy. I don't think he needs to come off the bench when your wing rotation is Camara, Deni, Grant, Thybulle and Sharpe.

Let's see how Billups manages the minute load (not who starts). If you divide the minutes that is 28.8 per player. As a note, he played 32 minutes per game last year. If he play 26 - 30 it will be fine.

Also, as time moves on, he becomes more tradeable. If he wants to pull an Ayton, then you wait and make him give up $s. There is no reason to be rash and waive him at this point.

This is all good and fine if you want to pretend team chemistry isn't a thing and a players unhappiness has no impact on the overall roster... 30+ years of NBA following has led me to believe that's a silly aspect to ignore.

Grant made is pretty clear he wasn't happy with being on the team in his post-season exit interviews and it's known he's made it clear that he's "fine" moving on from Portland and would like them to do so if they can (was mentioned by Marang in one of his mid-day shows a few months back). So he's more less got a half-ass trade request into the FO.

If you don't think that request can't become louder or more of a problem closer to the season if they're trying to put him on the bench and just be a "rotational player", buddy, I got some oceanfront property in Kansas to sell you...

[BlazersBroncos]

I'm fine giving up 2nd rounders to move him, but I wouldn't move FRPs. That's why I'm still pro Ayton-ing him if thats the case.

I'm kind of surprised to see so much backlash to that idea. Blazers are going to be likely stuck with his deal to the bitter end anyway and it would be better to just let him be elsewhere for other guys to play. It doesn't hurt the Blazers in any way as far as getting FAs (which they never get anyhow) and it doesn't impact making trades any more negatively than keeping Grant does... so like... whatever? Pay him to go away and keep going into the youth movement.

Yeah, I have to disagree with this thinking. He will be fine here as a rotational player. Even with last year's down year, he was certainly good enough to be a rotational player here - he is a really good 3 point shooter and helps space the floor when healthy. I don't think he needs to come off the bench when your wing rotation is Camara, Deni, Grant, Thybulle and Sharpe.

Let's see how Billups manages the minute load (not who starts). If you divide the minutes that is 28.8 per player. As a note, he played 32 minutes per game last year. If he play 26 - 30 it will be fine.

Also, as time moves on, he becomes more tradeable. If he wants to pull an Ayton, then you wait and make him give up $s. There is no reason to be rash and waive him at this point.

This is all good and fine if you want to pretend team chemistry isn't a thing and a players unhappiness has no impact on the overall roster... 30+ years of NBA following has led me to believe that's a silly aspect to ignore.

Grant made is pretty clear he wasn't happy with being on the team in his post-season exit interviews and it's known he's made it clear that he's "fine" moving on from Portland and would like them to do so if they can (was mentioned by Marang in one of his mid-day shows a few months back). So he's more less got a half-ass trade request into the FO.

If you don't think that request can't become louder or more of a problem closer to the season if they're trying to put him on the bench and just be a "rotational player", buddy, I got some oceanfront property in Kansas to sell you...

I agree to an extent. I just dont see Grant as having illustrated enough nonsense to full stop cut bait with him. 3 years of dead money at his salary is a ton. I am hoping adding Holiday will appease him a bit.

Then again, he doesnt seem to be a guy about winning. He had a chance to win in DEN and took the usage DET offered instead (They both offered 3 / 60). He might literally only care about starting and shooting the ball, arguably this is likely.

But I just dont think we are there yet. Good chance it comes to that, but I would give it more time to see what the reaction is.

Even then - I would try to get creative.

Grant + RWIII for Beal.
Royce + Richards into PDX MLE / TPE.
Cut Beal so we have dead money for 2 rather than 3 years.

G - Jrue Holiday / Scoot Henderson / Caleb Love
G - Shadeon Sharpe / Jrue Holiday / VM
F - Toumani Camara / Matisse Thybulle / Rayan Rupert
F - Deni Avdija / Royce O'Neal / Duop Reath
C - Donovan Clingan / Nick Richards / Hansen Yang

Bench scoring does take a hit w/o Grant here.

[dckingsfan]

I'm fine giving up 2nd rounders to move him, but I wouldn't move FRPs. That's why I'm still pro Ayton-ing him if thats the case.

I'm kind of surprised to see so much backlash to that idea. Blazers are going to be likely stuck with his deal to the bitter end anyway and it would be better to just let him be elsewhere for other guys to play. It doesn't hurt the Blazers in any way as far as getting FAs (which they never get anyhow) and it doesn't impact making trades any more negatively than keeping Grant does... so like... whatever? Pay him to go away and keep going into the youth movement.

Yeah, I have to disagree with this thinking. He will be fine here as a rotational player. Even with last year's down year, he was certainly good enough to be a rotational player here - he is a really good 3 point shooter and helps space the floor when healthy. I don't think he needs to come off the bench when your wing rotation is Camara, Deni, Grant, Thybulle and Sharpe.

Let's see how Billups manages the minute load (not who starts). If you divide the minutes that is 28.8 per player. As a note, he played 32 minutes per game last year. If he play 26 - 30 it will be fine.

Also, as time moves on, he becomes more tradeable. If he wants to pull an Ayton, then you wait and make him give up $s. There is no reason to be rash and waive him at this point.

This is all good and fine if you want to pretend team chemistry isn't a thing and a players unhappiness has no impact on the overall roster... 30+ years of NBA following has led me to believe that's a silly aspect to ignore.

Grant made is pretty clear he wasn't happy with being on the team in his post-season exit interviews and it's known he's made it clear that he's "fine" moving on from Portland and would like them to do so if they can (was mentioned by Marang in one of his mid-day shows a few months back). So he's more less got a half-ass trade request into the FO.

If you don't think that request can't become louder or more of a problem closer to the season if they're trying to put him on the bench and just be a "rotational player", buddy, I got some oceanfront property in Kansas to sell you...

Fair enough. A reasonable opinion.

One clarification - when I say rotational, in this case it can mean a starter (for which I advocated). In the rotation means they are getting meaningful minutes.

It is pretty clear that Cronin will jettison a player if they are a problem. So, I have no problem letting it play out from that aspect as well.

So, we get to agree to disagree on this one. I would rather see Billups get his chance with Grant without Simons and Ayton around. I personally believe the outcome will be much better.

My guess is that is what we are going to see happen - and I am perfectly fine with that direction.

[DusterBuster]

I also push back on the idea its "rash" to make a move like this. It's being proactive, something the Blazers historically under both Olshey and Cronin refuse to ever do. When the writing is on the wall with a situation, do something to correct it sooner than later.

The writing was on the wall with CJ and Lillard combo, they waited 2 years too long to move him and got garbage return.

The writing was on the wall with Lillard after they got the #3 pick in the lottery and should have moved him quietly before he demanded out and tanked his trade value, which they thankfully somewhat salvaged but could have gotten more had they just had the balls to make a tough decision.

The writing was on the wall for Simons after they picked Scoot and still had a SG they supposedly really liked in Sharpe, but instead of trade him while he was still viewed as a young player with potential on a reasonable contract, they kept him playing an awkward role until that shine came off.

The writing was IS on the wall with Grant and has been for some time. Dragging this out isn't going to do anyone any good. His minutes and production, even if evened out, won't improve his trade value. It won't make him happy. It won't drastically improve the team overall. It WILL hinder development of guys who could be getting his minutes. And in the end, for what? What is the actual positive of keeping him around? So they can move his expiring for Camara's vet mentor who has 4 years and 120mil left on his contract?

[Dame Lizard]

I would be surprised if POR CUT\stretched Grant. too many years @ too much salary and they want a somewhat clean cap next year apparently (why they bought out Ayton instead of a trade)

My only hope is they can make a neutral deal for him, players in, no picks out

Something with LAL would seem to be most logical, Rui\Knecht\Kleber (preferred) or Vincent for Grant

Then maybe POR loops in CHA to offload Knecht (I seriously doubt POR values him on this team given his sub par defense) and gets back Jeffries (Schmitz is a fan) & rights to Sion James

Something like that, getting players back, nothing crazy value wise and no picks going out

But then again, with Cronin and his bizarre level of GM moves, who knows?

I just seriously doubt that Grant is gonna be OK with coming off the bench or even starting seeing less possessions coming his way he was unhappy at the end of the season, no reason to be happy now. I guess he could commiserate with Holiday

Agreed - waiving and stretching would be horribly unattractive for a team sale.

If a Billionaire wanted to buy Portland and go all-in on competing (trading 4-5 first round draft picks for an All Star), dead cap space being consumed by a previously waived player would be ugly.

[dckingsfan]

I would be surprised if POR CUT\stretched Grant. too many years @ too much salary and they want a somewhat clean cap next year apparently (why they bought out Ayton instead of a trade)

My only hope is they can make a neutral deal for him, players in, no picks out

Something with LAL would seem to be most logical, Rui\Knecht\Kleber (preferred) or Vincent for Grant

Then maybe POR loops in CHA to offload Knecht (I seriously doubt POR values him on this team given his sub par defense) and gets back Jeffries (Schmitz is a fan) & rights to Sion James

Something like that, getting players back, nothing crazy value wise and no picks going out

But then again, with Cronin and his bizarre level of GM moves, who knows?

I just seriously doubt that Grant is gonna be OK with coming off the bench or even starting seeing less possessions coming his way he was unhappy at the end of the season, no reason to be happy now. I guess he could commiserate with Holiday

Agreed - waiving and stretching would be horribly unattractive for a team sale.

If a Billionaire wanted to buy Portland and go all-in on competing (trading 4-5 first round draft picks for an All Star), dead cap space being consumed by a previously waived player would be ugly.

Reminder, last year he took 1/2 his shots from 3PT land

He played 47 games and took 574 shots, that is on pace for 1000 shots in a season. The most shots Grant took in a season was 932.

Anyway, as you guys point out - there is little chance of moving him, so he is going to be here for the next two years unless something miraculous happens (IMO).

[Walton1one]

So, will Ayton sign with IND or LAL or some 3rd team?

Fischer thinks LAL is signed, sealed, and delivered, I guess we will see, and if that is the case, we will see if the off-the-wall rumor of Grant being traded to LAL is a reality or fan fiction

[zzaj]

I don't think it makes a ton of sense to stretch Grant.

I do think that he could rehab some of his value if he is able to "make the right adjustments" (his words, not mine) to playing within the current offense. If he comes out playing average level D, and hitting from 3 in a bench role, he'll have value to many teams. His contract will look much better after next season, if so...

The issue is the same as it was with Simons--politicking of roster rotation. Because he's a vet he'll be penciled in as a starter when he shouldn't be based on the impact of either Deni or Camara.

[DusterBuster]

I don't think it makes a ton of sense to stretch Grant.

I do think that he could rehab some of his value if he is able to "make the right adjustments" (his words, not mine) to playing within the current offense. If he comes out playing average level D, and hitting from 3 in a bench role, he'll have value to many teams. His contract will look much better after next season, if so...

The issue is the same as it was with Simons--politicking of roster rotation. Because he's a vet he'll be penciled in as a starter when he shouldn't be based on the impact of either Deni or Camara.

One more time for those back in the cheap seats, no one (especially myself) is saying the Blazers should stretch waive Grant.

I'm calling for him to just be bought out a la Ayton. Not doing a stretch waive.

I'm also very very very much disagreeing with anyone who thinks he's going to ever have any value around the league or that his contract will look much better. He's only going to be a 15-17ppg player on OK shooting numbers and likely be off and on the injured list all season..., no one is going to be excited to pay 33mil for that under this CBA. At best, we're gonna have him wasting the Blazers time and development until he's a expiring contract at which point they either move him in a questionable deal like Simons or just waive him like Ayton in the final year of his deal.

This is so very clear whats coming, so why not just press fast forward here and so everyone can move on faster.

[soobias]

some of you ask yourself how many 30m+ dont start or split mins ? he needs to go, blazers need to move on from him. you can get 80% productivity for prob 20% of the cost.
i might be on a short list here but if we have multiple 1st in 29 i would tack on the worst on just to move on from him and his salary. theres most likely a decent wing player out there via trade or free agency at least i hope lol.