Ayton, Grant, and Simons for anything?

[tester551]

What do you think POR?

ORL sends: Jonathan Isaac, Cole Anthony, 2 srps
POR sends: Anfernee Simons, Robert Williams

Consider that Cole has one more year at 13.1m, then another Team Option. He could easily be the third guard, or even start until Scoot takes the job. He has been inconsistent and ORL is obsessed with the idea of Suggs & KCP as a nasty, defense-first backcourt feeding off of the playmaking of Paolo and Franz. As a result, Cole has had a limited role this year until ORL was decimated with injuries. He's very capable of big moments and has all of the skills, just not as consistent as you'd like, to date. I think he's a tremendous candidate for a fresh start somewhere but I don't like $13m for a guy nearly out of the rotation as ORL's 3 big rookie extensions are kicking in soon. Cole is maybe the best teammate and personality in the league, even when he's struggled, he's always owned it and spoke freely and supported the guys in front of him. He's still young and healthy, a freak athlete, a great teammate. He'd provide more than enough of what Simons brings when he (?) transitions to the 3rd guard spot, behind Scoot/Sharpe.

Isaac is the most impactful defender in the league, from rim to perimeter. Watch a Magic game - when he is on the court, his impact is felt on every possession. His injury history is well-documented and he's been playing with a team-imposed minutes restriction for a couple of solid years now. He's a good trade target because he makes $25m this season, but then it drops to $15m next year and then 3 more years after that at $15m or less. There are also several "outs" at the team's discretion. IMO, that financial flexibility nullifies his injury concern. If he's healthy, even in limited minutes, $15m is a fantastic deal. ORL has so many defense-first guys and such limited offense outside of Paolo and Franz that I think Isaac's absence wouldn't be as terrible as it might be on another team. I know that Clingan is the future, but Isaac could play next to Ayton and basically "complete him". If you just can't get past the injury history, consider that you'd be sending out Time Lord in the deal, who is a more limited role player with similar concerns.

POR saves significant money (12.5 next year), possibly establishes a significant defensive identity overnight, and gets a couple srps for their trouble.

Is there another team that might value Isaac more?

If we can't find one -> then I'd probably do this deal if we can upgrade the picks. Just give us one of the '25 firsts that you have....

[Skybox]

What do you think POR?

ORL sends: Jonathan Isaac, Cole Anthony, 2 srps
POR sends: Anfernee Simons, Robert Williams

Consider that Cole has one more year at 13.1m, then another Team Option. He could easily be the third guard, or even start until Scoot takes the job. He has been inconsistent and ORL is obsessed with the idea of Suggs & KCP as a nasty, defense-first backcourt feeding off of the playmaking of Paolo and Franz. As a result, Cole has had a limited role this year until ORL was decimated with injuries. He's very capable of big moments and has all of the skills, just not as consistent as you'd like, to date. I think he's a tremendous candidate for a fresh start somewhere but I don't like $13m for a guy nearly out of the rotation as ORL's 3 big rookie extensions are kicking in soon. Cole is maybe the best teammate and personality in the league, even when he's struggled, he's always owned it and spoke freely and supported the guys in front of him. He's still young and healthy, a freak athlete, a great teammate. He'd provide more than enough of what Simons brings when he (?) transitions to the 3rd guard spot, behind Scoot/Sharpe.

Isaac is the most impactful defender in the league, from rim to perimeter. Watch a Magic game - when he is on the court, his impact is felt on every possession. His injury history is well-documented and he's been playing with a team-imposed minutes restriction for a couple of solid years now. He's a good trade target because he makes $25m this season, but then it drops to $15m next year and then 3 more years after that at $15m or less. There are also several "outs" at the team's discretion. IMO, that financial flexibility nullifies his injury concern. If he's healthy, even in limited minutes, $15m is a fantastic deal. ORL has so many defense-first guys and such limited offense outside of Paolo and Franz that I think Isaac's absence wouldn't be as terrible as it might be on another team. I know that Clingan is the future, but Isaac could play next to Ayton and basically "complete him". If you just can't get past the injury history, consider that you'd be sending out Time Lord in the deal, who is a more limited role player with similar concerns.

POR saves significant money (12.5 next year), possibly establishes a significant defensive identity overnight, and gets a couple srps for their trouble.

Is there another team that might value Isaac more?

If we can't find one -> then I'd probably do this deal if we can upgrade the picks. Just give us one of the '25 firsts that you have....

IDK, I think POR is getting the most impactful player in the trade in Isaac. Simons is perfect for ORL, but his deal is, IMO, something that POR would be happy to unload at this point in their rebuild. I'm easy - I'd sub the DEN frp for the srps, but I'm sure some would balk, especially with the (bizarre?) value that srps seem to be garnering in NBA trades over the last couple of years.

[Walton1one]

Since last Jan - CHA has acquired (2) 1st round picks & (8) 2nd round picks...

[DaVoiceMaster]

I don't want contracts that extend beyond next season. This would have Isaac on the payroll potentionally for another 3-years beyond that.

[Walton1one]

What do you think POR?

ORL sends: Jonathan Isaac, Cole Anthony, 2 srps
POR sends: Anfernee Simons, Robert Williams

Consider that Cole has one more year at 13.1m, then another Team Option. He could easily be the third guard, or even start until Scoot takes the job. He has been inconsistent and ORL is obsessed with the idea of Suggs & KCP as a nasty, defense-first backcourt feeding off of the playmaking of Paolo and Franz. As a result, Cole has had a limited role this year until ORL was decimated with injuries. He's very capable of big moments and has all of the skills, just not as consistent as you'd like, to date. I think he's a tremendous candidate for a fresh start somewhere but I don't like $13m for a guy nearly out of the rotation as ORL's 3 big rookie extensions are kicking in soon. Cole is maybe the best teammate and personality in the league, even when he's struggled, he's always owned it and spoke freely and supported the guys in front of him. He's still young and healthy, a freak athlete, a great teammate. He'd provide more than enough of what Simons brings when he (?) transitions to the 3rd guard spot, behind Scoot/Sharpe.

Isaac is the most impactful defender in the league, from rim to perimeter. Watch a Magic game - when he is on the court, his impact is felt on every possession. His injury history is well-documented and he's been playing with a team-imposed minutes restriction for a couple of solid years now. He's a good trade target because he makes $25m this season, but then it drops to $15m next year and then 3 more years after that at $15m or less. There are also several "outs" at the team's discretion. IMO, that financial flexibility nullifies his injury concern. If he's healthy, even in limited minutes, $15m is a fantastic deal. ORL has so many defense-first guys and such limited offense outside of Paolo and Franz that I think Isaac's absence wouldn't be as terrible as it might be on another team. I know that Clingan is the future, but Isaac could play next to Ayton and basically "complete him". If you just can't get past the injury history, consider that you'd be sending out Time Lord in the deal, who is a more limited role player with similar concerns.

POR saves significant money (12.5 next year), possibly establishes a significant defensive identity overnight, and gets a couple srps for their trouble.

Easy no. No 1st round capital coming back to POR and ORL is sitting on (2) mid-level value 25' 1st rounders (currently #20/#24)

So Isaac has 4 more years on his deal ($15\$14.5\$14.5\$15) with club guarantees $8mil in 26/27 fully guaranteed if he plays 52 games. In his 6 seasons, he has done that once. 27/28 & 28/29 non guaranteed, fully guaranteed if he plays 52 games

So if we equate RW3 to Isaac in terms of value\injury concerns. What is the value for Simons? (2) 2nd's & Cole Anthony?

Also, I don't see why POR would want to trade for Isaac, neither he or RW3 fit this team's younger core, both have injury concerns and are better fits (RW3 for sure) for playoff teams that need limited role but impactful performers. POR is off of of RW3's contract next year anyway, they would still owe Isaac $8mil next year, so they save $5mil there? Save $15mil on Anthony\Simons swap, but one player is clearly better than the other (and Anthony is only 1yr younger than Simons BTW). Simons also expires after next season (as does Ayton\RW3\Thybulle (if he picks up PO)) and POR has no luxury tax\cap concerns

but I don't like $13m for a guy nearly out of the rotation as ORL's 3 big rookie extensions are kicking in soon

Isn't that what he would be in POR as well? The idea behind moving Simons is so Scoot can start?

w\o a 1st coming back I don't see a deal here, and likelihood POR would want\prefer a young player at a different position, maybe Jett Howard.

[Walton1one]

I would be pretty stunned if Portland moved Robert Williams for less than a first.

Marang...

On one hand, I agree, he is worth a 1st

NBACentral
@TheDunkCentral
·
7h
Jonas Valančiūnas and Robert Williams are expected to be available on the trade market for multiple second-round picks, per @MikeAScotto

“Valanciunas and Williams are expected to command multiple second-round picks on the trade market, according to various NBA executives who’ve

OTOH, Marang has been wrong way more than he has ever been right.

I'm conflicted...

[Skybox]

What do you think POR?

ORL sends: Jonathan Isaac, Cole Anthony, 2 srps
POR sends: Anfernee Simons, Robert Williams

Consider that Cole has one more year at 13.1m, then another Team Option. He could easily be the third guard, or even start until Scoot takes the job. He has been inconsistent and ORL is obsessed with the idea of Suggs & KCP as a nasty, defense-first backcourt feeding off of the playmaking of Paolo and Franz. As a result, Cole has had a limited role this year until ORL was decimated with injuries. He's very capable of big moments and has all of the skills, just not as consistent as you'd like, to date. I think he's a tremendous candidate for a fresh start somewhere but I don't like $13m for a guy nearly out of the rotation as ORL's 3 big rookie extensions are kicking in soon. Cole is maybe the best teammate and personality in the league, even when he's struggled, he's always owned it and spoke freely and supported the guys in front of him. He's still young and healthy, a freak athlete, a great teammate. He'd provide more than enough of what Simons brings when he (?) transitions to the 3rd guard spot, behind Scoot/Sharpe.

Isaac is the most impactful defender in the league, from rim to perimeter. Watch a Magic game - when he is on the court, his impact is felt on every possession. His injury history is well-documented and he's been playing with a team-imposed minutes restriction for a couple of solid years now. He's a good trade target because he makes $25m this season, but then it drops to $15m next year and then 3 more years after that at $15m or less. There are also several "outs" at the team's discretion. IMO, that financial flexibility nullifies his injury concern. If he's healthy, even in limited minutes, $15m is a fantastic deal. ORL has so many defense-first guys and such limited offense outside of Paolo and Franz that I think Isaac's absence wouldn't be as terrible as it might be on another team. I know that Clingan is the future, but Isaac could play next to Ayton and basically "complete him". If you just can't get past the injury history, consider that you'd be sending out Time Lord in the deal, who is a more limited role player with similar concerns.

POR saves significant money (12.5 next year), possibly establishes a significant defensive identity overnight, and gets a couple srps for their trouble.

Easy no. No 1st round capital coming back to POR and ORL is sitting on (2) mid-level value 25' 1st rounders (currently #20/#24)

So Isaac has 4 more years on his deal ($15\$14.5\$14.5\$15) with club guarantees $8mil in 26/27 fully guaranteed if he plays 52 games. In his 6 seasons, he has done that once. 27/28 & 28/29 non guaranteed, fully guaranteed if he plays 52 games

So if we equate RW3 to Isaac in terms of value\injury concerns. What is the value for Simons? (2) 2nd's & Cole Anthony?

Also, I don't see why POR would want to trade for Isaac, neither he or RW3 fit this team's younger core, both have injury concerns and are better fits (RW3 for sure) for playoff teams that need limited role but impactful performers. POR is off of of RW3's contract next year anyway, they would still owe Isaac $8mil next year, so they save $5mil there? Save $15mil on Anthony\Simons swap, but one player is clearly better than the other (and Anthony is only 1yr younger than Simons BTW). Simons also expires after next season (as does Ayton\RW3\Thybulle (if he picks up PO)) and POR has no luxury tax\cap concerns

but I don't like $13m for a guy nearly out of the rotation as ORL's 3 big rookie extensions are kicking in soon

Isn't that what he would be in POR as well? The idea behind moving Simons is so Scoot can start?

w\o a 1st coming back I don't see a deal here, and likelihood POR would want\prefer a young player at a different position, maybe Jett Howard.

Nah...first guard off the bench isn't "out of the rotation". He's a very viable player on a team that will put the ball in a guard's hands. I'd give Cole and filler (Gary Harris expiring) & DEN frp for Simons, but let's not forget that Simons' deal is more than double Cole's. Isaac is just a better player than Time Lord, much more versatile defensively (and TL IS good -I know)...I figured the Isaac/RW3 add on was a plus for POR, but I'd happily keep Isaac at $15m per forever...

Another alternative...Cole, Jett Howard, Harris, and 2 srps for Simons

[Walton1one]

Evan Sidery

There are eight teams who have let it be known they will be sellers ahead of the NBA trade deadline:

Bulls
Hornets
Jazz
Nets
Pelicans
Raptors
Trail Blazers
Wizards

Hopeful, but I’ll believe it when I see it

[Butter]

What do you think POR?

ORL sends: Jonathan Isaac, Cole Anthony, 2 srps
POR sends: Anfernee Simons, Robert Williams

Consider that Cole has one more year at 13.1m, then another Team Option. He could easily be the third guard, or even start until Scoot takes the job. He has been inconsistent and ORL is obsessed with the idea of Suggs & KCP as a nasty, defense-first backcourt feeding off of the playmaking of Paolo and Franz. As a result, Cole has had a limited role this year until ORL was decimated with injuries. He's very capable of big moments and has all of the skills, just not as consistent as you'd like, to date. I think he's a tremendous candidate for a fresh start somewhere but I don't like $13m for a guy nearly out of the rotation as ORL's 3 big rookie extensions are kicking in soon. Cole is maybe the best teammate and personality in the league, even when he's struggled, he's always owned it and spoke freely and supported the guys in front of him. He's still young and healthy, a freak athlete, a great teammate. He'd provide more than enough of what Simons brings when he (?) transitions to the 3rd guard spot, behind Scoot/Sharpe.

Isaac is the most impactful defender in the league, from rim to perimeter. Watch a Magic game - when he is on the court, his impact is felt on every possession. His injury history is well-documented and he's been playing with a team-imposed minutes restriction for a couple of solid years now. He's a good trade target because he makes $25m this season, but then it drops to $15m next year and then 3 more years after that at $15m or less. There are also several "outs" at the team's discretion. IMO, that financial flexibility nullifies his injury concern. If he's healthy, even in limited minutes, $15m is a fantastic deal. ORL has so many defense-first guys and such limited offense outside of Paolo and Franz that I think Isaac's absence wouldn't be as terrible as it might be on another team. I know that Clingan is the future, but Isaac could play next to Ayton and basically "complete him". If you just can't get past the injury history, consider that you'd be sending out Time Lord in the deal, who is a more limited role player with similar concerns.

POR saves significant money (12.5 next year), possibly establishes a significant defensive identity overnight, and gets a couple srps for their trouble.

Easy no. No 1st round capital coming back to POR and ORL is sitting on (2) mid-level value 25' 1st rounders (currently #20/#24)

So Isaac has 4 more years on his deal ($15\$14.5\$14.5\$15) with club guarantees $8mil in 26/27 fully guaranteed if he plays 52 games. In his 6 seasons, he has done that once. 27/28 & 28/29 non guaranteed, fully guaranteed if he plays 52 games

So if we equate RW3 to Isaac in terms of value\injury concerns. What is the value for Simons? (2) 2nd's & Cole Anthony?

Also, I don't see why POR would want to trade for Isaac, neither he or RW3 fit this team's younger core, both have injury concerns and are better fits (RW3 for sure) for playoff teams that need limited role but impactful performers. POR is off of of RW3's contract next year anyway, they would still owe Isaac $8mil next year, so they save $5mil there? Save $15mil on Anthony\Simons swap, but one player is clearly better than the other (and Anthony is only 1yr younger than Simons BTW). Simons also expires after next season (as does Ayton\RW3\Thybulle (if he picks up PO)) and POR has no luxury tax\cap concerns

but I don't like $13m for a guy nearly out of the rotation as ORL's 3 big rookie extensions are kicking in soon

Isn't that what he would be in POR as well? The idea behind moving Simons is so Scoot can start?

w\o a 1st coming back I don't see a deal here, and likelihood POR would want\prefer a young player at a different position, maybe Jett Howard.

Nah...first guard off the bench isn't "out of the rotation". He's a very viable player on a team that will put the ball in a guard's hands. I'd give Cole and filler (Gary Harris expiring) & DEN frp for Simons, but let's not forget that Simons' deal is more than double Cole's. Isaac is just a better player than Time Lord, much more versatile defensively (and TL IS good -I know)...I figured the Isaac/RW3 add on was a plus for POR, but I'd happily keep Isaac at $15m per forever...

Another alternative...Cole, Jett Howard, Harris, and 2 srps for Simons

Skybox, I've enjoyed reading your posts across multiple forums, and I get where you're coming from with this trade concept. Everything I've read on the Magic board in the past was/is that they saw Isaac as a building block of the franchise. But his injury history along with the contract length is risky.

The counter proposal is better, but it feels like trying to get Simons on the cheap. I read somewhere that in a good trade, both sides should feel like they overpaid, a bit.

I for one think it should be the lesser FRP vs 2x 2nds

[BlazersBroncos]

What about lower of the 2 FRP - if both FRP are 1-19 it converts to 2 SRP.

[zzaj]

Yikes. Sharpe's 1st half stat line, and his end of game stat line look exactly the same. Diddley-squat in the second half.

Clippers did a number of things really well defensively--one, they shut down driving lanes VERY well, and that shows in FT attempts. 13 to 27, advantage Clips.

1st half Blazers couldn't throw a pebble into a dumpster and the Clips shut down the court at 12-15 feet. 2nd half, Clippers knew exactly what the Blazers were going to run and just shut the whole thing down.

This is a product of Chauncey Billups. COMPLETELY milquetoast offensive system. I get that it's important for Scoot and Sharpe's development to learn how to play within a set offense, but these are up-tempo players, and the offense has regressed to slowmo ball--4 passes or DHOs around the perimeter trying to find a mismatch or a poorly defended screen and then penetrate and score or kick.

Hopefully in the season's second half Chauncey takes a page out of the Remix playbook and sees how fast the team can play. That would be so much more enjoyable to watch. Instead we get to see a team trying to beat other teams utilizing something they are terrible at.

[DusterBuster]

What about lower of the 2 FRP - if both FRP are 1-19 it converts to 2 SRP.

I genuinely don't care fwiw.

Start. The. F-ing. Rebuild.

Move the vets for literally anything you can get. Let's end the charade here for everyone. If you can move the 3 in the subject, or Thybulle, or Williams, or Reath (not a vet but w/e) for anything that doesn't return a longer contract or require giving up picks to move... Do. It.

This team - at best - is wildly inconsistent, but where they are, they should stink on ice in 85% of their games. Even bad teams will get wins against better talent, that's going to happen in the NBA, but this team only stinks like 65-75% of the time. Gimme that 10% extra **** on a stick dude.

And please for the love of all holy god, fire Billups. Don't get a good coach (or even OK coach) in here. Get a literal bum off Burnside in here to coach the rest of the season... lets go full Kaleb Canales / coach Kevin Pritchard in this bitch to end the year.

If I was running this team, literally I would trade every vet for whatever possible (again, with caveat that only taking back equal or lesser contracts and not giving up assets to move anyone)... the ones I can't move get extra summer break months. THEN, Mr. Big Shot gets a Mr. Big Summer to join the rest of them. Not risking a couple meaningless wins because the vets are happy to see Billups go home... still might happen, but happy to take that risk just to see anyone else on the sidelines.

[DusterBuster]

I would be pretty stunned if Portland moved Robert Williams for less than a first.

Marang...

On one hand, I agree, he is worth a 1st

NBACentral
@TheDunkCentral
·
7h
Jonas Valančiūnas and Robert Williams are expected to be available on the trade market for multiple second-round picks, per @MikeAScotto

“Valanciunas and Williams are expected to command multiple second-round picks on the trade market, according to various NBA executives who’ve

OTOH, Marang has been wrong way more than he has ever been right.

I'm conflicted...

Yeah, I've given up on him as a trade rumor source. He doesn't have those connections or if he does, isn't saying anything.

Only credit I give Marang at this point is getting a team vibe within the organization. Being that close to the actual team, it's impossible not to have that ability to feel where the winds are blowing from a vibe POV. From a actual Shams/Woj (RIP) "insider" POV, he's got nothing.

[Wizenheimer]

Simons was 0-9 for 0 points tonight, and it looked like the only competition he wanted to engage in was with Ayton for which one couldn't care less

[Norm2953]

Simons was 0-9 for 0 points tonight, and it looked like the only competition he wanted to engage in was with Ayton for which one couldn't care less

At least both of them will be gone by no later than the summer of 2026.

I do wonder if Simons would re-engage if he were on a winning team.

[Skybox]

Simons was 0-9 for 0 points tonight, and it looked like the only competition he wanted to engage in was with Ayton for which one couldn't care less

At least both of them will be gone by no later than the summer of 2026.

I do wonder if Simons would re-engage if he were on a winning team.

That’s the bet I’d make…tanking is soul-smashing. Sexton, in particular, is a guy that you can see the smoke coming out of his ultra-competitive ears The contract and the more obvious ferocity move Sexton slightly ahead of Simons, imo…but I’d bet either would be ready to fight in a more competitive situation…I’m not saying Simon’s’ apparent complacency doesn’t concern me a bit - it certainly affects what I’d offer for him.

[BlazersBroncos]

Simone Fontecchio + TOR 2025 SRP (#34 today) + DET 2027 SRP + MIL 2029 SRP for Anfernee Simons

DET has 14M in cap space so this trade works despite Simone making only 6M.

We cut salary, Simone is a shooter and expires the same time as Ant, we get a very high SRP and 2 future picks.
DET buys low on a playoff run w/ Ivey out.

Seems good for both IMO.

[Wizenheimer]

Simons was 0-9 for 0 points tonight, and it looked like the only competition he wanted to engage in was with Ayton for which one couldn't care less

At least both of them will be gone by no later than the summer of 2026.

I do wonder if Simons would re-engage if he were on a winning team.

That’s the bet I’d make…tanking is soul-smashing. Sexton, in particular, is a guy that you can see the smoke coming out of his ultra-competitive ears The contract and the more obvious ferocity move Sexton slightly ahead of Simons, imo…but I’d bet either would be ready to fight in a more competitive situation…I’m not saying Simon’s’ apparent complacency doesn’t concern me a bit - it certainly affects what I’d offer for him.

would you offer Anthony + Harris + the better of the 2025 Orl/Den 1st's?

[Skybox]

At least both of them will be gone by no later than the summer of 2026.

I do wonder if Simons would re-engage if he were on a winning team.

That’s the bet I’d make…tanking is soul-smashing. Sexton, in particular, is a guy that you can see the smoke coming out of his ultra-competitive ears The contract and the more obvious ferocity move Sexton slightly ahead of Simons, imo…but I’d bet either would be ready to fight in a more competitive situation…I’m not saying Simon’s’ apparent complacency doesn’t concern me a bit - it certainly affects what I’d offer for him.

would you offer Anthony + Harris + the better of the 2025 Orl/Den 1st's?

If I had to, but I'd probably have a call with POR before I upped the ante for Sexton. I'd also offer Jett Howard as an upgrade over Harris if that kept the draft equity where it was. UTA might not care much about Jett (considering their stock of kids) but POR might like a look at a 6'6 shooter that can handle and playmake a bit.

[Wizenheimer]

That’s the bet I’d make…tanking is soul-smashing. Sexton, in particular, is a guy that you can see the smoke coming out of his ultra-competitive ears The contract and the more obvious ferocity move Sexton slightly ahead of Simons, imo…but I’d bet either would be ready to fight in a more competitive situation…I’m not saying Simon’s’ apparent complacency doesn’t concern me a bit - it certainly affects what I’d offer for him.

would you offer Anthony + Harris + the better of the 2025 Orl/Den 1st's?

If I had to, but I'd probably have a call with POR before I upped the ante for Sexton. I'd also offer Jett Howard as an upgrade over Harris if that kept the draft equity where it was. UTA might not care much about Jett (considering their stock of kids) but POR might like a look at a 6'6 shooter that can handle and playmake a bit.

I think the problem with Howard is that his salary + Anthony's isn't enough to match Simons under trade rules. Anthony + Harris is enough. And the Blazers doing a 3 for 1 deal would require them to waive two players first