ImageImage

Ayton, Grant, and Simons for anything?

Moderators: Moonbeam, DeBlazerRiddem

dckingsfan
RealGM
Posts: 34,826
And1: 20,384
Joined: May 28, 2010

Re: Ayton, Grant, and Simons for anything? 

Post#701 » by dckingsfan » Fri Jan 17, 2025 6:42 pm

Wizenheimer wrote:
Skybox wrote:
Wizenheimer wrote:would you offer Anthony + Harris + the better of the 2025 Orl/Den 1st's?

If I had to, but I'd probably have a call with POR before I upped the ante for Sexton. I'd also offer Jett Howard as an upgrade over Harris if that kept the draft equity where it was. UTA might not care much about Jett (considering their stock of kids) but POR might like a look at a 6'6 shooter that can handle and playmake a bit.

I think the problem with Howard is that his salary + Anthony's isn't enough to match Simons under trade rules. Anthony + Harris is enough. And the Blazers doing a 3 for 1 deal would require them to waive two players first

Agreed, I think this would end up being some kind of massive trade deal. Like 5 for 5.

I think taking on Wagner for RWIII could be part of the deal as well.
Skybox
RealGM
Posts: 18,451
And1: 8,459
Joined: Jan 21, 2017
 

Re: Ayton, Grant, and Simons for anything? 

Post#702 » by Skybox » Fri Jan 17, 2025 6:45 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
Wizenheimer wrote:
Skybox wrote:If I had to, but I'd probably have a call with POR before I upped the ante for Sexton. I'd also offer Jett Howard as an upgrade over Harris if that kept the draft equity where it was. UTA might not care much about Jett (considering their stock of kids) but POR might like a look at a 6'6 shooter that can handle and playmake a bit.

I think the problem with Howard is that his salary + Anthony's isn't enough to match Simons under trade rules. Anthony + Harris is enough. And the Blazers doing a 3 for 1 deal would require them to waive two players first

Agreed, I think this would end up being some kind of massive trade deal. Like 5 for 5.

I think taking on Wagner for RWIII could be part of the deal as well.


ORL could use Time Lord for sure
dckingsfan
RealGM
Posts: 34,826
And1: 20,384
Joined: May 28, 2010

Re: Ayton, Grant, and Simons for anything? 

Post#703 » by dckingsfan » Fri Jan 17, 2025 6:47 pm

Read on Twitter


Code: Select all

Robert Williams    $12,428,571
Matisse Thybulle   $11,025,000
Scoot Henderson    $10,259,160
Donovan Clingan     $6,836,400
Shaedon Sharpe      $6,614,160
Kris Murray         $2,990,040
Dalano Banton       $2,196,970
Duop Reath          $2,048,780
Jabari Walker       $2,019,699
Toumani Camara      $1,891,857
Rayan Rupert        $1,891,857


Looking at the list, my bet would be:

1) Williams
2) Sharpe
3) Reath
BlazersBroncos
RealGM
Posts: 12,419
And1: 9,976
Joined: Oct 27, 2016

Re: Ayton, Grant, and Simons for anything? 

Post#704 » by BlazersBroncos » Fri Jan 17, 2025 7:06 pm

Moving Sharpe would be wild.

I know we dont trade w/ LAL - but assuming they want to keep the powder dry for summer 2026 while improving for a run this year - this deal would do both (Grant IMO is off the table for them due to his contract length, they wont take that and implode any big FA chances in 2026)

Anfernee Simons
Robert Williams III

for

Rui Hachimura
Gabe Vincent
Dalton Knetch
Jalen Hood-Schifero
Higher 2025 LAL / LAC SRP

We dont add long term money (Rui and Gabe expire in 2026), we get a prospect (Dalton, arguable JHS but I see him as filler) and a pick in the 45-45 range). Its not ideal, but snagging Dalton would be comparable to getting a pick projected in the 20-30 range in 2025 IMO. He can have more room to grow and make mistakes in PDX and his shooting would compliment the Scoot / Sharpe duo at guard.

Then ideally trade Grant to anyone for something and a bunch of SRP. Trade Reath and Banton to a team or seperate for some SRP.

G - Scoot Henderson / Gabe Vincent / Jalen Hood-Schifero
G - Shadeon Sharpe / Matisse Thybulle / Jalen Hood-Schifero
F - Toumari Camara / Dalton Knetch / Rayan Rupert
F - Deni Avdija / Rui Hachimura / Kris Murray
C - DeAndre Ayton / Donovan Clingan / Jabari Walker JR
dckingsfan
RealGM
Posts: 34,826
And1: 20,384
Joined: May 28, 2010

Re: Ayton, Grant, and Simons for anything? 

Post#705 » by dckingsfan » Fri Jan 17, 2025 7:22 pm

Post that trade on the LAL board, they might be for it?
User avatar
DusterBuster
RealGM
Posts: 36,253
And1: 21,913
Joined: Jan 31, 2010
   

Re: Ayton, Grant, and Simons for anything? 

Post#706 » by DusterBuster » Fri Jan 17, 2025 11:04 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
Read on Twitter


Code: Select all

Robert Williams    $12,428,571
Matisse Thybulle   $11,025,000
Scoot Henderson    $10,259,160
Donovan Clingan     $6,836,400
Shaedon Sharpe      $6,614,160
Kris Murray         $2,990,040
Dalano Banton       $2,196,970
Duop Reath          $2,048,780
Jabari Walker       $2,019,699
Toumani Camara      $1,891,857
Rayan Rupert        $1,891,857


Looking at the list, my bet would be:

1) Williams
2) Sharpe
3) Reath


Marks is great for watching trend lines. Manag is great for the “human” element of what teams and players go through. Neither is good at breaking trade talks and such, but if you follow them, follow them for the thing they’re good at in the media and ignore them when the fall outside of that box.
Get ready to learn Chinese buddy... #YangBang
User avatar
DusterBuster
RealGM
Posts: 36,253
And1: 21,913
Joined: Jan 31, 2010
   

Re: Ayton, Grant, and Simons for anything? 

Post#707 » by DusterBuster » Sat Jan 18, 2025 12:00 am

Reportedly the Clippers are interested in RobWill.

Read on Twitter


I've had them pinpointed as a potential TimeLoad destination. Them, OKC and Warriors if they hadn't fallen off a cliff.

Clippers don't have a FRP til 2029 though. My guess is they have a offer out to Portland for second rounders...

That said, with where all of the Blazers future draft capital is... I don't suspect this team to even be sniffing the playoffs again until 27, 28 or 29.
Get ready to learn Chinese buddy... #YangBang
Walton1one
Starter
Posts: 2,220
And1: 1,244
Joined: Jul 05, 2023
 

Re: Ayton, Grant, and Simons for anything? 

Post#708 » by Walton1one » Sat Jan 18, 2025 12:08 am

News from Brett Seigel

https://clutchpoints.com/are-bucks-serious-jimmy-butler-trade-deadline-suitor-siegels-scoop

The idea of Cleveland leveraging LeVert has been met with hesitance around the league. Still, the belief is that the Cavs will make some sort of move to bolster their overall depth. Like Johnson, Jerami Grant continues to be a name associated with Cleveland if this organization were to swing for the fences before the deadline.


and I bet Grant would come at a cheaper price...

What about a trade that did not involve a 1st round pick?

POR sends Grant + cash
for
Strus\Niang, Jaylon Tyson and (3) 2nd's - Let's say 25' MIL 2nd, 27' DEN 2nd & 31' CLE 2nd

Right now CLE is about $1.68mil over luxury tax threshold, with a tax payment around $2.52mil

This trade would add $2.7mil = $4.38 over tax, so about a $6.6mil tax bill, which POR could cover ($7.5 max in cash allowed) OR CLE could opt to take another player from POR (Walker\Reath\Banton) back in the deal, POR offers the $7.5mil to offset as much as is allowable

POR would have to trade\waive (2) players if they trade Grant alone or just (1) if they include another player. 2nd's are fungible, but getting a 25' back in the deal seems reasonable (CLE has (2) 25' 2nd's) any additional 2nd's are gravy

If the Blazers do look to move Williams at the trade deadline, they will not do so with the intention of dumping him for whatever assets they can get. Portland truly views the 27-year-old as a positive asset, and they would be more than comfortable keeping him on their roster through the end of the 2024-25 season as a mentor to rookie Donovan Clingan, sources said.


In other words, 1st round pick or a young player of interest, no multiple 2nd's

The possibility of Grant suddenly becoming the best player to be moved at the trade deadline is real, but Portland is a major question mark. If they make a move, it will come out of nowhere and develop over the course of a 24-48 hour period.


This is looking positive, especially if BRK holds firm to their high asking price for Johnson.

As far as Simons and his future with the Blazers, the organization is not opposed to hearing offers for the 25-year-old guard. Neither the Blazers nor Simons are actively seeking a trade, yet it does appear as if this team is beginning to give more opportunities to Scoot Henderson as the primary guard in their backcourt. What his value would look like on the trade market is unknown at this time.


Let's hope that Cronin has finally started to embrace reality
Walton1one
Starter
Posts: 2,220
And1: 1,244
Joined: Jul 05, 2023
 

Re: Ayton, Grant, and Simons for anything? 

Post#709 » by Walton1one » Sat Jan 18, 2025 12:17 am

DusterBuster wrote:Reportedly the Clippers are interested in RobWill.

Read on Twitter


I've had them pinpointed as a potential TimeLoad destination. Them, OKC and Warriors if they hadn't fallen off a cliff.

Clippers don't have a FRP til 2029 though. My guess is they have a offer out to Portland for second rounders...

That said, with where all of the Blazers future draft capital is... I don't suspect this team to even be sniffing the playoffs again until 27, 28 or 29.


Interesting, and LAC has a lot of interesting mid-level contracts available to trade as well

They are $2.4 over the tax threshold, $6.16mil tax bill, I doubt Ballmer cares that much though

LAC could trade their 30' or 31' 1st I think? and they have a perfect trade chip, PJ Tucker ($11.54mil, expiring)

They don't really have any 2nd's, only a 30' which UTA has swap rights on and 31'. I don't think either of those are very appealing.

A simple
Tucker & 30' or 31' 1st for RW3 would work
OR
if they were reluctant to trade away a 1st, POR could ask for a young player back like Cam Christie or Trentyn Flowers (2-way). Flowers could slot right into a 2-way spot (waive Minaya or Moore), to take Christie POR would have to trade\waive a player OR get LAC to take a player back in this deal.

Maybe POR takes back a young player and both those 2nd's for RW3? Although, I would be willing to bet LAC would offer a 1st for RW3
zzaj
General Manager
Posts: 9,116
And1: 3,661
Joined: Jul 12, 2006
 

Re: Ayton, Grant, and Simons for anything? 

Post#710 » by zzaj » Sat Jan 18, 2025 12:31 am

If the Blazers can get an expiring and a 1st for Timelord, they shouldn't think twice about it.
Walton1one
Starter
Posts: 2,220
And1: 1,244
Joined: Jul 05, 2023
 

Re: Ayton, Grant, and Simons for anything? 

Post#711 » by Walton1one » Sat Jan 18, 2025 12:36 am

I agree
User avatar
DusterBuster
RealGM
Posts: 36,253
And1: 21,913
Joined: Jan 31, 2010
   

Re: Ayton, Grant, and Simons for anything? 

Post#712 » by DusterBuster » Sat Jan 18, 2025 12:45 am

zzaj wrote:If the Blazers can get an expiring and a 1st for Timelord, they shouldn't think twice about it.


I agree, but I don’t think that offer is out there for a number of reasons. Teams aren’t (at this point) interested in offering a FRP for upgrades on the bench (thanks any olshey…). Maybe that changes at the trade deadline, but I don’t see it happening in this CBA / trade climate. An expiring and a couple second rounders feels like what RobWill should go for right now if we’re talking fair value.

The Blazers haven’t played Rob enough to justify a first. When he was playing great out of the gate, that’s when the time to move him was… or play him more to show it’s consistent. They overprotected him and now his production is pretty … meh. Maybe some teams believe in their system and on a winning team, getting him back to his great play won’t be hard?

At this point tho, just trade him. Get him to a better situation, get some 2nd round assets and an expiring and move on.

Same for Ant, Ayton and Grant if possible.

Also Thybulle. If you can do the shorter contract + 2nd rounders for Matisse, do it. I believe the Mavs would still have a ton of interest in a deal like that.
Get ready to learn Chinese buddy... #YangBang
Walton1one
Starter
Posts: 2,220
And1: 1,244
Joined: Jul 05, 2023
 

Re: Ayton, Grant, and Simons for anything? 

Post#713 » by Walton1one » Sat Jan 18, 2025 12:56 am

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/detroit-pistons/news/pistons-could-create-dynamic-backcourt-duo-trading-trail-blazers-rising-star/b375d401420568bff1ced4f9

In a possible trade, Detroit could send Hardaway Jr., Wendell Moore Jr. and draft capital to Portland for Simons. With the Blazers prioritizing a backcourt of Scoot Henderson and Shaedon Sharpe, Simons may be the odd man out, and in this deal, they would add more talent and draft capital to continue their rebuild.


Goldbum mentioned this a long while back (as they did POR interest in Deni) and it makes a lot of sense

Add above to latest BR report

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10150776-every-nba-teams-dream-and-realistic-2025-trade-deadline-target

Dream Target: Anfernee Simons, G, Portland Trail Blazers

The Pistons got a good look at Simons when he dropped 36 points on 8-of-12 shooting from deep to go along with nine assists in a Jan. 6 game in Detroit.

With starting shooting guard Jaden Ivey now sidelined with a broken leg, Simons would be the ideal replacement as a scorer and playmaker who helps keep the Pistons in the playoff race.


Simons for Fontecchio & Moore Jr works, DET has space to absorb Simons salary, neither player are major contributors, the question is compensation

DET 25' pick is tied up with MIN - 1-13 in 25', 1-11 in 26', 1-9 in 27' then turns into a pumpkin (27' DET 2nd), so I don't know if DET can trade a 27' 1st? can they do something like 27' 1st 10-30? Not sure how the rules work on that & with Stepien rule, that means the earliest 1st would be 29'

They do have up to (11) 2nd's they could trade, plus 1st round pick swaps + a coupe of younger players (Klintman\Sasser) that they could include.
zzaj
General Manager
Posts: 9,116
And1: 3,661
Joined: Jul 12, 2006
 

Re: Ayton, Grant, and Simons for anything? 

Post#714 » by zzaj » Sat Jan 18, 2025 1:27 am

DusterBuster wrote:
zzaj wrote:If the Blazers can get an expiring and a 1st for Timelord, they shouldn't think twice about it.


I agree, but I don’t think that offer is out there for a number of reasons. Teams aren’t (at this point) interested in offering a FRP for upgrades on the bench (thanks any olshey…). Maybe that changes at the trade deadline, but I don’t see it happening in this CBA / trade climate. An expiring and a couple second rounders feels like what RobWill should go for right now if we’re talking fair value.

The Blazers haven’t played Rob enough to justify a first. When he was playing great out of the gate, that’s when the time to move him was… or play him more to show it’s consistent. They overprotected him and now his production is pretty … meh. Maybe some teams believe in their system and on a winning team, getting him back to his great play won’t be hard?

At this point tho, just trade him. Get him to a better situation, get some 2nd round assets and an expiring and move on.

Same for Ant, Ayton and Grant if possible.

Also Thybulle. If you can do the shorter contract + 2nd rounders for Matisse, do it. I believe the Mavs would still have a ton of interest in a deal like that.


Yeah, I didn't say it WOULD happen...just that I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger.

I'll push back on the idea of "when" to trade Williams. Teams know what he does, and I don't think much will effect his trade value.

If you take away his concussion games and his DNP-CDs on back to backs, Williams has actually been relatively healthy this season.
They_Them_Hatin
Starter
Posts: 2,052
And1: 739
Joined: Nov 05, 2012

Re: Ayton, Grant, and Simons for anything? 

Post#715 » by They_Them_Hatin » Sun Jan 19, 2025 4:16 am

Wizenheimer wrote:
Skybox wrote:
Wizenheimer wrote:
would you offer Anthony + Harris + the better of the 2025 Orl/Den 1st's?


If I had to, but I'd probably have a call with POR before I upped the ante for Sexton. I'd also offer Jett Howard as an upgrade over Harris if that kept the draft equity where it was. UTA might not care much about Jett (considering their stock of kids) but POR might like a look at a 6'6 shooter that can handle and playmake a bit.


I think the problem with Howard is that his salary + Anthony's isn't enough to match Simons under trade rules. Anthony + Harris is enough. And the Blazers doing a 3 for 1 deal would require them to waive two players first

Suns can send a TPE for Banton.
User avatar
PDXKnight
RealGM
Posts: 26,198
And1: 3,138
Joined: May 29, 2007
Location: Portland
   

Re: Ayton, Grant, and Simons for anything? 

Post#716 » by PDXKnight » Sun Jan 19, 2025 5:03 am

They_Them_Hatin wrote:
Wizenheimer wrote:
Skybox wrote:
If I had to, but I'd probably have a call with POR before I upped the ante for Sexton. I'd also offer Jett Howard as an upgrade over Harris if that kept the draft equity where it was. UTA might not care much about Jett (considering their stock of kids) but POR might like a look at a 6'6 shooter that can handle and playmake a bit.


I think the problem with Howard is that his salary + Anthony's isn't enough to match Simons under trade rules. Anthony + Harris is enough. And the Blazers doing a 3 for 1 deal would require them to waive two players first

Suns can send a TPE for Banton.


Fine by me
Wizenheimer
RealGM
Posts: 36,372
And1: 8,078
Joined: May 28, 2007

Re: Ayton, Grant, and Simons for anything? 

Post#717 » by Wizenheimer » Sun Jan 19, 2025 3:49 pm

They_Them_Hatin wrote:
Wizenheimer wrote:
Skybox wrote:
If I had to, but I'd probably have a call with POR before I upped the ante for Sexton. I'd also offer Jett Howard as an upgrade over Harris if that kept the draft equity where it was. UTA might not care much about Jett (considering their stock of kids) but POR might like a look at a 6'6 shooter that can handle and playmake a bit.


I think the problem with Howard is that his salary + Anthony's isn't enough to match Simons under trade rules. Anthony + Harris is enough. And the Blazers doing a 3 for 1 deal would require them to waive two players first

Suns can send a TPE for Banton.


Banton is on a vet minimum salary. He can be traded without any salary coming back. TPE not needed. But the other team would want compensation like a 2nd round pick. Blazers would be better off waiving him
User avatar
Moonbeam
Forum Mod - Blazers
Forum Mod - Blazers
Posts: 10,340
And1: 5,102
Joined: Feb 21, 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia
     

Re: Ayton, Grant, and Simons for anything? 

Post#718 » by Moonbeam » Tue Jan 21, 2025 12:20 am

It's pretty interesting looking at the season On/Off data at this point. Looking at players with at least 500 MP on the season:

Banton: +12.0
Clingan: +5.9
Avdija: +3.5
Murray: +3.2
Scoot: +1.0
Sharpe: -0.3
Camara: -1.1
Simons: -4.0
Ayton: -4.3
Grant: -5.1

These numbers are noisy, but it is interesting that the three main vets on the team are all at the bottom.
Brandon-Clyde
RealGM
Posts: 23,381
And1: 5,799
Joined: May 29, 2008
     

Re: Ayton, Grant, and Simons for anything? 

Post#719 » by Brandon-Clyde » Tue Jan 21, 2025 12:29 am

Moonbeam wrote:It's pretty interesting looking at the season On/Off data at this point. Looking at players with at least 500 MP on the season:

Banton: +12.0
Clingan: +5.9
Avdija: +3.5
Murray: +3.2
Scoot: +1.0
Sharpe: -0.3
Camara: -1.1
Simons: -4.0
Ayton: -4.3
Grant: -5.1

These numbers are noisy, but it is interesting that the three main vets on the team are all at the bottom.

It's also a difference between bench and starters. Every plus person has been mostly a bench player and every minus player a starter.
There are no constraints on the human mind, no walls around the human spirit, no barriers to our progress except those we ourselves erect." -- Ronald Reagan
Tim Lehrbach
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 26,111
And1: 4,379
Joined: Jul 29, 2001
   

Re: Ayton, Grant, and Simons for anything? 

Post#720 » by Tim Lehrbach » Tue Jan 21, 2025 12:45 am

Brandon-Clyde wrote:
Moonbeam wrote:It's pretty interesting looking at the season On/Off data at this point. Looking at players with at least 500 MP on the season:

Banton: +12.0
Clingan: +5.9
Avdija: +3.5
Murray: +3.2
Scoot: +1.0
Sharpe: -0.3
Camara: -1.1
Simons: -4.0
Ayton: -4.3
Grant: -5.1

These numbers are noisy, but it is interesting that the three main vets on the team are all at the bottom.

It's also a difference between bench and starters. Every plus person has been mostly a bench player and every minus player a starter.

Yeah, it might reflect that out bench players are competitive against other benches, but our dearth of top-end talent means the starters get stomped.
Clipsz 4 Life
January 20, 2002-May 17, 2006
Saxon
February 20, 2001-August 9, 2007

Return to Portland Trail Blazers