Post Draft: 2025 Off Season Part 2- What's Next?

[Butter]

I'm fine giving up 2nd rounders to move him, but I wouldn't move FRPs. That's why I'm still pro Ayton-ing him if thats the case.

I'm kind of surprised to see so much backlash to that idea. Blazers are going to be likely stuck with his deal to the bitter end anyway and it would be better to just let him be elsewhere for other guys to play. It doesn't hurt the Blazers in any way as far as getting FAs (which they never get anyhow) and it doesn't impact making trades any more negatively than keeping Grant does... so like... whatever? Pay him to go away and keep going into the youth movement.

Yeah, I have to disagree with this thinking. He will be fine here as a rotational player. Even with last year's down year, he was certainly good enough to be a rotational player here - he is a really good 3 point shooter and helps space the floor when healthy. I don't think he needs to come off the bench when your wing rotation is Camara, Deni, Grant, Thybulle and Sharpe.

Let's see how Billups manages the minute load (not who starts). If you divide the minutes that is 28.8 per player. As a note, he played 32 minutes per game last year. If he play 26 - 30 it will be fine.

Also, as time moves on, he becomes more tradeable. If he wants to pull an Ayton, then you wait and make him give up $s. There is no reason to be rash and waive him at this point.

This is all good and fine if you want to pretend team chemistry isn't a thing and a players unhappiness has no impact on the overall roster... 30+ years of NBA following has led me to believe that's a silly aspect to ignore.

Grant made is pretty clear he wasn't happy with being on the team in his post-season exit interviews and it's known he's made it clear that he's "fine" moving on from Portland and would like them to do so if they can (was mentioned by Marang in one of his mid-day shows a few months back). So he's more less got a half-ass trade request into the FO.

If you don't think that request can't become louder or more of a problem closer to the season if they're trying to put him on the bench and just be a "rotational player", buddy, I got some oceanfront property in Kansas to sell you...

No problem, how much money is he willing to give up in a buy out to be a free agent? If he really believes in himself, give up somewhere around $20 per year and sign a new FA deal on a team he wants to play for.

If he's not willing to give up a large amount of guaranteed money, then find your seat and be ready to light it up when your number is called.

[Dame Lizard]

I don't think it makes a ton of sense to stretch Grant.

I do think that he could rehab some of his value if he is able to "make the right adjustments" (his words, not mine) to playing within the current offense. If he comes out playing average level D, and hitting from 3 in a bench role, he'll have value to many teams. His contract will look much better after next season, if so...

The issue is the same as it was with Simons--politicking of roster rotation. Because he's a vet he'll be penciled in as a starter when he shouldn't be based on the impact of either Deni or Camara.

One more time for those back in the cheap seats, no one (especially myself) is saying the Blazers should stretch waive Grant.

I'm calling for him to just be bought out a la Ayton. Not doing a stretch waive.

I'm also very very very much disagreeing with anyone who thinks he's going to ever have any value around the league or that his contract will look much better. He's only going to be a 15-17ppg player on OK shooting numbers and likely be off and on the injured list all season..., no one is going to be excited to pay 33mil for that under this CBA. At best, we're gonna have him wasting the Blazers time and development until he's a expiring contract at which point they either move him in a questionable deal like Simons or just waive him like Ayton in the final year of his deal.

This is so very clear whats coming, so why not just press fast forward here and so everyone can move on faster.

Even if he doesn't rehab his value, his contract will get less worse as time goes on.

I think he can be a valuable role player on a contender, like he was for Denver back in the day.

I'd try to trade him this offseason (which will be hard obviously), and if not I'd bring him off the bench with Deni starting at PF.

If he's being toxic in the locker room we can waive him later in the year.

[DusterBuster]

I don't think it makes a ton of sense to stretch Grant.

I do think that he could rehab some of his value if he is able to "make the right adjustments" (his words, not mine) to playing within the current offense. If he comes out playing average level D, and hitting from 3 in a bench role, he'll have value to many teams. His contract will look much better after next season, if so...

The issue is the same as it was with Simons--politicking of roster rotation. Because he's a vet he'll be penciled in as a starter when he shouldn't be based on the impact of either Deni or Camara.

One more time for those back in the cheap seats, no one (especially myself) is saying the Blazers should stretch waive Grant.

I'm calling for him to just be bought out a la Ayton. Not doing a stretch waive.

I'm also very very very much disagreeing with anyone who thinks he's going to ever have any value around the league or that his contract will look much better. He's only going to be a 15-17ppg player on OK shooting numbers and likely be off and on the injured list all season..., no one is going to be excited to pay 33mil for that under this CBA. At best, we're gonna have him wasting the Blazers time and development until he's a expiring contract at which point they either move him in a questionable deal like Simons or just waive him like Ayton in the final year of his deal.

This is so very clear whats coming, so why not just press fast forward here and so everyone can move on faster.

Even if he doesn't rehab his value, his contract will get less worse as time goes on.

I think he can be a valuable role player on a contender, like he was for Denver back in the day.

I'd try to trade him this offseason (which will be hard obviously), and if not I'd bring him off the bench with Deni starting at PF.

If he's being toxic in the locker room we can waive him later in the year.

Shorter doesn't exactly equal "less worse". He's literally 1/5th of a teams cap space. There's a reason even an expiring Ayton needed to be bought out. Teams didn't that to pay that freight for a player who's not worth it - even for a single season, not without giving back bad contracts in return.

I love the world you're living in my dude, but nothing that's transpired this summer or looks to be on the horizon shows that this is what's to come.

[DusterBuster]

Yeah, I have to disagree with this thinking. He will be fine here as a rotational player. Even with last year's down year, he was certainly good enough to be a rotational player here - he is a really good 3 point shooter and helps space the floor when healthy. I don't think he needs to come off the bench when your wing rotation is Camara, Deni, Grant, Thybulle and Sharpe.

Let's see how Billups manages the minute load (not who starts). If you divide the minutes that is 28.8 per player. As a note, he played 32 minutes per game last year. If he play 26 - 30 it will be fine.

Also, as time moves on, he becomes more tradeable. If he wants to pull an Ayton, then you wait and make him give up $s. There is no reason to be rash and waive him at this point.

This is all good and fine if you want to pretend team chemistry isn't a thing and a players unhappiness has no impact on the overall roster... 30+ years of NBA following has led me to believe that's a silly aspect to ignore.

Grant made is pretty clear he wasn't happy with being on the team in his post-season exit interviews and it's known he's made it clear that he's "fine" moving on from Portland and would like them to do so if they can (was mentioned by Marang in one of his mid-day shows a few months back). So he's more less got a half-ass trade request into the FO.

If you don't think that request can't become louder or more of a problem closer to the season if they're trying to put him on the bench and just be a "rotational player", buddy, I got some oceanfront property in Kansas to sell you...

No problem, how much money is he willing to give up in a buy out to be a free agent? If he really believes in himself, give up somewhere around $20 per year and sign a new FA deal on a team he wants to play for.

If he's not willing to give up a large amount of guaranteed money, then find your seat and be ready to light it up when your number is called.

Using the DA example as a template, I think you can convince an player to give up the amount they'll make in FA. Agents have a good idea of what teams may offer to sign a player once waived, so you can probably get them to give back roughly MLE money (which is Grant's true worth on the open market these days) in a buyout.

But again, I'm so utterly confounded why anyone cares about the money aspect in any way shape of form. The Blazers books are just fine even if that contract were to stay on there in full until it expires. Portland is not a FA destination and never ever ever will be (well, I'll hold out some hope maybe under new ownership for at least the early part of it...), so the money isn't important for that. JG and Holiday's contracts don't hinder any extension for Deni, Tou, Scoot, Sharpe or Clingan. An unbalanced trade... sure? I guess... rare that happens since this team is in a fairly obvious holding pattern financially until the sale of the team. So like... who truly cares if they pay his salary to just go away? Who does that effect outside of the beancounters at One Center Court? Outside of just saying you don't want to pay a player to go away, I'm not actually hearing what negative effect it has to get rid of a player who doesn't want to be here.

And this is not stretch waiving him, so his contract just lasts as long as it lasts normally, it's not getting x2+1'd so that its on the books for half a decade.

[dckingsfan]

Yeah, I just don't see him being waived. If he becomes toxic - then you deal with it. Two different things - wanting to be on another team and being toxic (the Ayton mold). If I were a betting person, I would say 99% he isn't waived. Nothing to see here - moving on from this.

[Case2012]

I feel like we keep helping out other teams and dont get anything in return.. or much. There had to be some kind of backroom deal for Ayton even if him off the books just created cap space. What's the point of that cap space if we dont use it.

Homerun PDX summer, we stayed under the tax by 14 million, woo hoo.

They realize that we as fans have to be excited about seeing the team play right?

I had a gross thought earlier.. What about Ben Simmons.. A lot of people suggested him a few years ago and he's certainly gettable for the MLE right? Seems in line with all defense no shooting and does add some much needed playmaking.

Former number one pick, buy low reclamation move... Sound a little familiar? What if we just swapped former number 1 pick headcases?

I can picture the presser now, he could just use the same speech from Ayton's intro.

Maybe the Grant for Knecht thing happens and that let's Simmons get the majority of the back up 4 minutes. He'd be Deni lite, so we'd have the same look at the 4 all 48 minutes. Defensive playmaking, rebounding, minus the scoring.

Jrue/Scoot
Sharpe/Thybulle/Love
Camara/Knecht/Rupert
Deni/Simmons/Rui/Vanderbilt
Clingan/Yang/RW

We'd have the best defense in the league but no scoring.

[BlazersBroncos]

I feel like we keep helping out other teams and dont get anything in return.. or much

How? We won the BOS trade in talent - people just don’t like the contract. Look at Clarkson getting bought out. Look at what Sexton got on the market. Cam Thomas averaged 24ppg and is likely to play on a QO. Undersized score only guards are not valued.

Ayton stunk. He set the wrong tone on the court. The experiment failed - but no Ayton means no Camara. Opening up the MLE to use as a TPE midseason might be worth something. No team was trading for him.

The value to trade down was fantastic. Pick was controversial but at least we made a big swing.

This offseason has fulfilled many people’s hopes - jettison Simons and Ayton - swing big in the draft.

You can quibble on the pick, quibble on the Holiday contract, quibble we don’t flip Ayton for matching EC and a SRP. That’s salad dressing. The meat and potatoes of this offseason is actually everything we have been hoping for.

[Butter]

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[zzaj]

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I'll be pretty disappointed if they attach a first rounder or two to Grant in order to move him--it doesn't seem like Cronin values the draft highly, based on his track record, so this feels like something he'd do.

So far he's done okay in terms of getting out of his mistakes. He held on to Simons too long, but I'll live with the result of getting a more impactful player in Jrue. He swung and missed on play fit and Ayton changing his ways in the Lillard trade, but getting rid of Ayton as an expiring was a good move, IMHO. He provided a cushion for Clingan to get acclimated last year. Attaching draft capital to rid the team of Grant would be a serious blunder. One, it's an admission that the contract was too long and too big. Two, he's doubling down on the mistake by adding value to get rid that mistake.

Grant got his money. It's his job to be a good employee and do what's asked of him. If he wants out that bad, let him be the one to ask to be waived at most of his salary. Otherwise, let him learn how to be a valuable 3&D player off the bench instead of a non-rebounding, non-passing, midrange chucker.

[BlazersBroncos]

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I'll be pretty disappointed if they attach a first rounder or two to Grant in order to move him--it doesn't seem like Cronin values the draft highly, based on his track record, so this feels like something he'd do.

So far he's done okay in terms of getting out of his mistakes. He held on to Simons too long, but I'll live with the result of getting a more impactful player in Jrue. He swung and missed on play fit and Ayton changing his ways in the Lillard trade, but getting rid of Ayton as an expiring was a good move, IMHO. He provided a cushion for Clingan to get acclimated last year. Attaching draft capital to rid the team of Grant would be a serious blunder. One, it's an admission that the contract was too long and too big. Two, he's doubling down on the mistake by adding value to get rid that mistake.

Grant got his money. It's his job to be a good employee and do what's asked of him. If he wants out that bad, let him be the one to ask to be waived at most of his salary. Otherwise, let him learn how to be a valuable 3&D player off the bench instead of a non-rebounding, non-passing, midrange chucker.

Agreed. I don’t see any chance we move him without attaching FRP(s). Doing so would easily be the worst move Cronin has made since signing him to that deal in the first place.

LAL is a pipe dream - it’s clear they are saving the powder for a FA splash move. If they don’t steal Luka I could see it but now they are obliged to not be so short sighted.

I suppose DAL might be in play for Grant as his contract aligns with AD and Irving expiring. Klay + Hardy + Martin for Grant works. No picks either way IMO. Balances both rosters a bit - especially w/ DLo going to DAL. For PDX - Klay improves shooting, Martin is trash and Hardy is a 1-way player but young at least. Think we would end up running with -

G - Jrue Holiday / Scoot Henderson / Jaden Hardy
G - Shadeon Sharpe / Matisse Thybulle / Rayan Rupert
F - Toumani Camara / Klay Thompson / Caleb Martin
F - Deni Avdija / Toumani Camara / Kris Murray
C - Donovan Clingan / Robert Williams III / Hansen Yang / Duop Reath

Suppose w/ PJ you have to play Grant at SG - which I think is possible but not ideal. Who knows.

EDIT - Forgot about Flagg lol - not likely DAL would have interest.

[Walton1one]

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POR should offer to take this deal w/o the 1st

Knecht, Rui & Kleber or Vincent

Then either keep Knecht or move him to a team for a player they want

[BlazersBroncos]

I think taking on Grant's deal would be borderline job losing incompetence on Pelinka's part but hopefully LeGM has his balls in a vice and they make the move. I think moving Rui in the process is absurd for LAL. Moving Rui and Dalton absolute insanity.

But who knows. I would do the deal without the 1st OR Dalton. Just get off that deal, get a rotation piece in Rui who wont cry when he is relegated to the bench.

[Butter]

When is the last time that Cronin made the deal being discussed in national media?

- Dame to Miami?
- Ant to Orlando?
- Grant to Lal?

Be prepared for a total blind side IF Grant is traded... ever.

[Case2012]

Joe's not doing anything. He's done for the summer which means he's done until next year because he doesn't do anything at the deadline. I think we've seen the last of Joe Cronin's basketball career.

Whoever spends 4 billion on the Blazers are firing Joe on the spot.

Grant is probably gonna start and Sharpe is coming off the bench.

Jrue/Scoot
Toumani/Sharpe/Love
Deni/Thybulle/Rupert
Grant/Murray
Clingan/RW/Yang/Reath

That's it, that's the team. I think we'll play hard and win some games and be good enough to just miss the play-in.

MAYBE Grant rehabs his value and Cronin makes one last ditch effort to save his job by sending him to a contender at the deadline but I doubt it.

I will admit that I am really excited to see how good our defense is, on paper it looks like it could be the top 3 maybe even the best.

[Sinobas]

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POR should offer to take this deal w/o the 1st

Knecht, Rui & Kleber or Vincent

Then either keep Knecht or move him to a team for a player they want

Or not even ask for Knecht. Grant for whatever expirings they want to give. Wiggins isn't really much better than Grant. Grant on a good year is even a bit better I'd say.

[BlazersBroncos]

Joe's not doing anything. He's done for the summer which means he's done until next year because he doesn't do anything at the deadline. I think we've seen the last of Joe Cronin's basketball career.

Whoever spends 4 billion on the Blazers are firing Joe on the spot.

Grant is probably gonna start and Sharpe is coming off the bench.

Jrue/Scoot
Toumani/Sharpe/Love
Deni/Thybulle/Rupert
Grant/Murray
Clingan/RW/Yang/Reath

That's it, that's the team. I think we'll play hard and win some games and be good enough to just miss the play-in.

MAYBE Grant rehabs his value and Cronin makes one last ditch effort to save his job by sending him to a contender at the deadline but I doubt it.

Joe has dumped 2 of the 3 guys we all wanted gone. Did anyone really expect him to dump all 3? Grant is the hardest to deal with due to the contract.

I dont understand what the expectations were going into this offseason.

Have we seen a single player of the Simons, Ayton, Grant level be traded for FRP or quality youth? No.
Have we seen guards of Simons archetype go for any value? No.
Did we really think there was a legit market for Jerami Grant at age 31 w/ 3 years and 100M remaining, coming off a season of 14ppg w/ 48% TS? Anyone with a hint of reasonability would say - No.

Everyone wanted Simons / Ayton / Grant gone. We accomplished 66% of that task. Everyone saw the ceiling as low as our talent level lacks needle movers. We took a huge swing in the draft.

The details may not be to your liking but the bones of what the general fanbase here wanted have been accomplished. It just hasnt shaken out in the exact way some would have liked it.

[Case2012]

I'm fine with Joe being done. I don't think he's competent to do this job despite 17 years of training, so I don't want him doing any more stupid stuff until the team is sold and gone.

He signed Grant to that insane deal no one else would have and now Grant is just gonna have to earn his check. We need some offense and that's all he provides besides average defense and shooting we desperately need so fine. He can chuck up 500 3's this year. So like i said, I think we have enough defense on this team to be top 3 so that should make us very competitive at least while we end up in the lottery next summer. Maybe we get some of the Dallas and Atlanta luck and land the first pick with a new owner on board.

[Wizenheimer]

When is the last time that Cronin made the deal being discussed in national media?

- Dame to Miami?
- Ant to Orlando?
- Grant to Lal?

Be prepared for a total blind side IF Grant is traded... ever.

Grant-->PDX (became a matter of not-if-but-when)
Ayton-->PDX (rumors Blazers were trying for 2 years)
Avdija-->PDX (Goldblum)

at this point it looks like the Blazers are done but looking for a Grant deal....and none are materializing. So sure, if something happens it could be a big surprise

[dckingsfan]

Joe's not doing anything. He's done for the summer which means he's done until next year because he doesn't do anything at the deadline. I think we've seen the last of Joe Cronin's basketball career.

Whoever spends 4 billion on the Blazers are firing Joe on the spot.

Grant is probably gonna start and Sharpe is coming off the bench.

Jrue/Scoot
Toumani/Sharpe/Love
Deni/Thybulle/Rupert
Grant/Murray
Clingan/RW/Yang/Reath

That's it, that's the team. I think we'll play hard and win some games and be good enough to just miss the play-in.

MAYBE Grant rehabs his value and Cronin makes one last ditch effort to save his job by sending him to a contender at the deadline but I doubt it.

I will admit that I am really excited to see how good our defense is, on paper it looks like it could be the top 3 maybe even the best.

Pretty much how I see it...

Jrue/Scoot
Toumani/Sharpe
Deni/Thybulle
Grant
Clingan/Reath/Yang

RWIII might play some games? Reath plays early on and Yang HOPEFULLY is ready by the end of the season.

Our D hinges on Clingan being able to stay healthy, coming in in-shape and staying on the floor with limited foul trouble.

I will be shocked to see Murray make any progress - he is what he is at this point. Rupert is young enough to still develop materially - that would be awesome. Same with Cissoko.

Making the playoffs will hinge on injuries to players on other teams.

[DusterBuster]

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Buy (not stretch) his contract out.