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Post#81 » by DeezXXnutZ » Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:57 pm

omeloon wrote:Joel, Aldridge, Webster, Jones, Roy, Harris, Sergio, and Blake is still a pretty deep team with lots of room to improve seeing how Oden and Rudy are coming over next season. If Miles can contribute anything that's a bonus too. The big question becomes does anyone from New Jersey come over to Portland?? Harris for Outlaw, Jack, Frye, and the pick makes little sense, but if Portland can get someone like Sean Williams or Boone it might look a lot more balanced.


How about this idea...We keep are bad ass team..And you keep Devin Harris...Outlaw is going no where...His value should be higher then Harris right now in my opinion....
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Post#82 » by Ripcity4life » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:10 pm

Hey DeezXX put down that Drink i think it's going to your brain.

I love Outlaw but it's always said fans think more of there OWN players and this is the case again. Now if you wanted to say they were even i MIGHT go with that BUT -- Good PG's have more Value then a GOOD SF and this is a PROVEN fact.
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Post#83 » by mojomarc » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:25 pm

JD45 wrote:I based the top 10 offensive PG comment based on Hollinger's ratings, which have him as the #9 PG in PER, which is primarily an offensive rating for guards.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinge ... asonType=2


PER by itself doesn't really tell you all that much.

Harris is worth a lot more than Kidd. He will never be as good as the Kidd of 5 years ago, but he is at around the same level as Kidd now and still improving.


I have to disagree. The question was asked earlier, and I think it is 100% appropriate--if he reallly is as good as Kidd is now and still improving while Kidd is clearly declining, why in Sam Hill would Dallas ever consider making this move? The answer is he isn't remotely as good as Kidd. He may have a nice PER, but Kidd is a legit triple-double threat every night who puts up rebounding numbers that power forwards envy and assist numbers guards like Devin Harris envy. Are you honestly telling me that Harris right now, at 14 some odd points and 5.3 assists per game, is anywhere near the offensive threat as Kidd is with his 11 some odd points but 10.4 assists per game? Sure, Harris shoots better, but he doesn't produce better. If you figure that each assist is wroth 2.1 points per, then Kidd is producing 50% more than Harris is offensively. That's the only reason Dallas is interested in this trade--even at the age of 35 Kidd is far better than Harris is. You put Kidd with Dirk, and Kidd leads the league in assists and probably does get a triple double every night, and you can't tell me Harris can do that because demonstratably he cannot.

I don't see Dallas trading Harris + Filler for Kidd. So if Harris is leaving, Dallas is getting back something else of value in addition to Kidd. For Portland to get in the middle of a trade like this they would have to want Harris very badly to convince Dallas to let him go. Which is fine because Portland has assets to trade. In fact Portland needs to get rid of some young players or picks.


For Dallas to upgrade their situation, they may not want to give up Harris but they need to choose between winning now or going into rebuilding mode around Harris and Josh Howard and Brandon Bass because they aren't getting any younger. I don't think Cuban is that patient, so I think your assessment of what it would take for Harris to get sent packing if Dallas got Kidd back is overstating the case by a lot.

My Mavs perspective is that they need something very good to make it worthwhile to move Harris for Kidd. Maybe that is Outlaw or Webster.


They'll get something good. They'll get about a 75% shot at a winning a championship this year because I'd rather have their lineup with Kidd than the Celtics or Pistons.

From my Portland perspective, Harris is the perfect addition. He is only 24 and has a lot of playoff experience, including the Finals. He is also one of the most intelligent players on the Mavs. Despite being the youngest starter, he was voted a team captain. And he is still not close to reaching his full potential. His only real weakness is against the bulkier PGs like Baron Davis. His 3pt shooting is often questioned, but he is shooting 36% this year and 32% for his career. I expect Oden to be a terrific defensive player, so adding a terrific defensive PG to go with a dominant C is and exceptional combination. Harris would have a chance to be Portland's best player. So of course you trade your entire bench and picks for a guy like that.


The problem with this assessment is that our bench isn't the same to our success as, say, Dallas' bench is to their success. We're a team of mostly interchangeable parts that act like a Swiss Army knife, bringing a ton of tools to the table that you use depending on what you need to accomplish. Our bench is a key to us winning games, because we beat up on the other team's bench and make up for the relative youth that we have in our starters. Most other benches, Dallas' included, are there simply to hold down the fort while the starters take a breather, while ours is there to extend leads and make them insurmountable.

But, I think this is just a rumor and the Mavs will not trade Harris.


Who knows? Rumors are what they are.
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Post#84 » by waverider » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:41 pm

Gents, a previous reliable "source" at Olive did say that talks were goin on, take that for what its worth, I am very skeptical but he's been right a few times before and is not of the spread rumor type.
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Post#85 » by ppp000 » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:43 pm

Mavs aren't interested.
Portland isn't interested.
It's some New Jersey writer's wet dream.
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Post#86 » by Butter » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:45 pm

If the Blazers are going to make a trade involving JKidd, I think I'd rather have Kidd in Portland.

There are two factors that I really like about Kidd to Stump Town:

1) His contract expires in 09, helping with the Cap Space Plan
2) He'd be a great mentor/influence on Sergio.
Kidd wasn't a great shooter when he came into the league. I'd love to see what Kidd could do with Sergio.
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Post#87 » by BamBam8 » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:49 pm

Butter wrote:If the Blazers are going to make a trade involving JKidd, I think I'd rather have Kidd in Portland.

There are two factors that I really like about Kidd to Stump Town:

1) His contract expires in 09, helping with the Cap Space Plan
2) He'd be a great mentor/influence on Sergio.
Kidd wasn't a great shooter when he came into the league. I'd love to see what Kidd could do with Sergio.


He still isn't a great shooter
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Post#88 » by Napoleon7 » Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:00 am

I like Harris.
BUT I would not give up Outlaw to get him.
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Post#89 » by BamBam8 » Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:05 am

I think everyone is overvaluing Outlaw a bit too much. He's a good player, a great sixth man but if i could trade Outlaw for Harris straight up I'd do it in a heartbeat. That would give us a young good pg with a lot of playoff experience, and it would solve the logjam that we will undoubtedly have next year when oden comes back and we have Oden, Prz, Frye, Outlaw, and Aldridge all competing for big man minutes
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Post#90 » by Butter » Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:17 am

BamBam8 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



He still isn't a great shooter


True. Kidd shot 27% from 3, and 38% from the field his rookie year. In the last couple of years, he's averaged somewhere in the neighborhood of 34% from 3, and around 40% from the field.

I'm not saying that Kidd could help fix Sergio's shooting, but there'd definitely be able to help him dramatically improve his overall game.
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Post#91 » by Butter » Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:19 am

BamBam8 wrote:I think everyone is overvaluing Outlaw a bit too much. He's a good player, a great sixth man but if i could trade Outlaw for Harris straight up I'd do it in a heartbeat. That would give us a young good pg with a lot of playoff experience, and it would solve the logjam that we will undoubtedly have next year when oden comes back and we have Oden, Prz, Frye, Outlaw, and Aldridge all competing for big man minutes


Any deal for a major player like Kidd will require some package with Outlaw or Webster. I don't think the Blazers will do a block buster, but if they did, they'd probably have to give up one of those two. So that takes us full circle to similar threads we had going earlier in the season.
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Post#92 » by TheRipCityGuru » Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:35 am

They just let out a little teaser during the Maryland/Virginia game on ESPN. Says to tune in to sportscenter for more details on the potential Kidd to Dal trade that involves the Blazers.
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Post#93 » by BamBam8 » Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:40 am

I guess if it is ESPN fueling this rumor we'll hear a lot about it during the game tonight
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Post#94 » by TBpup » Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:41 am

They just let out a little teaser during the Maryland/Virginia game on ESPN. Says to tune in to sportscenter for more details on the potential Kidd to Dal trade that involves the Blazers.


Teaser to me just means they don't really have anything substantial and are in a guessing game. If something was iminent, it would be the leading headline.

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Post#95 » by Mr Odd » Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:42 am

Jason Quick said theres no truth to the deal.

We'll see.

I will be upset if Travis is traded. But I cant
see Pritchard doing this unless the Blazers
are getting more then Harris. However even
then I will be upset, I really like Outlaw.. .
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Post#96 » by SoHo » Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:50 am

I think there are some solid arguments as to why this team should look to add Harris even if it does cost us more than we might like (Outlaw).

Harris looks to be the exact type of PG Nate would like with his strength at the defensive end. He also gives us a new weapon with his speed on offense, granted it would be nice if he had a better shot considering this team is going to get a lot of kickouts when Oden hits the floor.

I think sending out Outlaw, Jack, and Frye is pretty crazy (not as crazy as some think) and regardless of what filler comes back aside of Harris that trade rumor is suspect at best, but the principle of the trade is one we should be looking at. We need to condense our talent. With Rudy and Oden joining the team next year we will have too many players that are worthy of rotation minutes. Likely that means that we see no Rodriguez, almost no Jack, and very little Pryz/Frye.

If we are really looking to the future a trade for Harris is a very good opportunity to set ourselves up for next year and the team we are building to win championships. It might hurt our chances at the Playoffs this year, but that goes along with what KP has always been saying, build for the future.

If we all set aside the pipe dreams of getting Chris Paul then who are we really looking at targeting? Someone like Baron Davis in the summer of 09? He certainly doesn't seem to fit us age wise and has an injury history. Are we going to draft someone like Collison or Augustin? Neither of them are on Harris' level and I don't think they ever will be.

I would just like to throw out there that in reality, this probably isn't as bad for the Blazers as many think. I'd clearly rather keep Outlaw because without him I think you can throw playoffs out for the year, but next year I think this team would be stronger with Harris. And maybe the something else rumored as coming to Portland is Boone or Williams or Bass...

Harris/Blake
Roy/Fernandez
Webster/Jones
Aldridge/Boone
Oden/Pryzbilla
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Post#97 » by Andre 2999 » Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:01 am

Napoleon7 wrote:I like Harris.
BUT I would not give up Outlaw to get him.


I agree, Outlaw's actually a pretty big part of this team. He's been on the team the longest and he's been clutch for us all season, plus he just has a great personality that fits well with the rest of the Blazers.
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Post#98 » by Butter » Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:01 am

In all seriousness, if the Blazers do any kind of monster deal like this, they better be sending out Miles.

I see no reason to hurry and make a trade like this. There's no reason not to wait till this summer, or the deadline next year if the Blazers can't get everything they want, exactly the way they want it out of this rumored deal.
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Post#99 » by FGump » Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:12 am

ppp000 wrote:Mavs aren't interested.
Portland isn't interested.
It's some New Jersey writer's wet dream.


Werd.
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Post#100 » by DeezXXnutZ » Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:17 am

Ripcity4life wrote:Hey DeezXX put down that Drink i think it's going to your brain.

I love Outlaw but it's always said fans think more of there OWN players and this is the case again. Now if you wanted to say they were even i MIGHT go with that BUT -- Good PG's have more Value then a GOOD SF and this is a PROVEN fact.


I'm sober when I said that...And I'd have to have drank 20 Jaeger bombs and 20 corona's to trade Outlaw for Harris..

Outlaw is a stud in the making and Harris will never be more then a role player...

And where is that proven fact your talking about that says Outlaw is inferior to Harris..Don't forget Assists come easy when you are in a run and gun offense like the Mavs have and they also have Howard, Nowitski, and Terry....

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