Ayton, Grant, and Simons for anything?

[PDXKnight]

Man I'm realizing how hard it is to trade grant/ant/ayton. 25-35 mil contracts aren't so common these days, there's a lot of guys making 50 million and a lot making 10-15, not a whole lot of options in between. It almost makes me think we'd have to take on a lavine or Beal in a bigger deal to make something happen but at that point unless Grant is in the trade to lose that po year 2027-2028 there isn't much to be done especially at the cost of additional assets to lose that final year while creating more of a back court log jam

[Walton1one]

Middleton is averaging 12.6ppg this year, his lowest total since his 2nd year in the league. He has played only 18 games and already had to take some games off for rest.

All things being equal, would MIL want to take on Grant's deal for 2 more years, probably not. But things are not equal, Middleton had double ankle surgery, his play has fallen off precipitously, MIL timeline to compete is waning, they have few other assets they can deal to get improvement and there are not many other teams out there (CHI\Lavine? PHX\Beal? why?) that have viable options available.

Grant is healthy, he is 3yrs younger, he can provide a lot of what Middleton provides and provide it more reliably.

Yeah, Grant's stats are down across the board this year, but IMO I don't see player regression as much as I see player apathy. A player who knows (wants?) he is not long for this team. Same thing affecting Simons IMO, and fueling Ayton's overall apathy (I got the contract\I am a max player attitude)

Clearly they know they have an issue\need to do something

Read on Twitter

[BlazersBroncos]

Middleton is averaging 12.6ppg this year, his lowest total since his 2nd year in the league. He has played only 18 games and already had to take some games off for rest.

All things being equal, would MIL want to take on Grant's deal for 2 more years, probably not. But things are not equal, Middleton had double ankle surgery, his play has fallen off precipitously, MIL timeline to compete is waning, they have few other assets they can deal to get improvement and there are not many other teams out there (CHI\Lavine? PHX\Beal? why?) that have viable options available.

Grant is healthy, he is 3yrs younger, he can provide a lot of what Middleton provides and provide it more reliably.

Yeah, Grant's stats are down across the board this year, but IMO I don't see player regression as much as I see player apathy. A player who knows (wants?) he is not long for this team. Same thing affecting Simons IMO, and fueling Ayton's overall apathy (I got the contract\I am a max player attitude)

Clearly they know they have an issue\need to do something

Read on Twitter

Given MIL’s window I don’t think it’s that crazy that they could talk themselves into a Middleton for Grant swap.

What I think is crazy and totally unlikely is them adding picks to make it happen.

[Walton1one]

I could see a 2nd maybe, but I agree probably not a 1st

I think to trade Grant, Cronin is going to have to get creative, kinda like he did in the Dame trade. Dealing Grant for other players that he can then flip for additional assets.

[DusterBuster]

**** Joe Cronin.

I can’t even fault Chauncey, he’s coaching to win, which all coaches do. Cronin gave him too much talent so they aren’t overmatched night in and night out to get a game changing player in the draft.

[DaVoiceMaster]

Grant and Simons for Middleton, Portis, Connaughton, and another $3M player? Can they substitute 3M cash or is cash just an additive? I'm surprised Portis is available. I thought he was decent. Who comes off the bench for Lopez and Giannis if he's gone?

Blazers could flip Portis to the Lakers for something.

[Walton1one]

The real scary thought though is that
this is what Cronin envisioned in the first place, that he really believes that this team is similar to HOU a few years back even though they clearly are not nearly as talented, nor do they have the stockpile of assets

[PDXKnight]

Middleton is averaging 12.6ppg this year, his lowest total since his 2nd year in the league. He has played only 18 games and already had to take some games off for rest.

All things being equal, would MIL want to take on Grant's deal for 2 more years, probably not. But things are not equal, Middleton had double ankle surgery, his play has fallen off precipitously, MIL timeline to compete is waning, they have few other assets they can deal to get improvement and there are not many other teams out there (CHI\Lavine? PHX\Beal? why?) that have viable options available.

Grant is healthy, he is 3yrs younger, he can provide a lot of what Middleton provides and provide it more reliably.

Yeah, Grant's stats are down across the board this year, but IMO I don't see player regression as much as I see player apathy. A player who knows (wants?) he is not long for this team. Same thing affecting Simons IMO, and fueling Ayton's overall apathy (I got the contract\I am a max player attitude)

Clearly they know they have an issue\need to do something

Read on Twitter

Given MIL’s window I don’t think it’s that crazy that they could talk themselves into a Middleton for Grant swap.

What I think is crazy and totally unlikely is them adding picks to make it happen.

Yeah I agree with this, in fact i think we'd need to add something for a straight swap. I wonder if adding Robert for connaughton and filler entices the Bucks at all as he'd certainly help short up their fc

[DusterBuster]

Read on Twitter

[DusterBuster]

Not sure on this guys rep, but makes some sense and bounces off some of what others have talked about.

I’m a big believer in looking at recent past transactions for future transactions. Bucks and Blazers FOs clearly have a good working relationship and would work together again surely. Lakers and Blazers may reconnect since it sounds like they had extended convos over the summer, wouldn’t be a surprise to see them reconnect at deadline and maybe pivot to Williams… Clippers too.

[DusterBuster]

Orlando fans are at the point they want Simons they’re willing to take Ayton… I just can’t…

[DaVoiceMaster]

Orlando fans are at the point they want Simons they’re willing to take Ayton… I just can’t…

Wait, what???

[DusterBuster]

Orlando fans are at the point they want Simons they’re willing to take Ayton… I just can’t…

Wait, what???

It's just one.

I'll still say there what I say here though, the talk of Ayton being the unmovable contract is still wild to me for a guy who's expiring next year. He's had a mediocre season and is absolutely overpaid, but he can still have good nights and be a productive player... and at worst case, he's a big expiring contract to move next year.

The reason I have Ayton pretty low on my list of the guys I want moved, he can be frustrating at times but he's going to be gone so soon anyway. Clingan only has to wait a max of 2 seasons for a starting gig, maybe only a season and a half if Cronin has the balls to get something in return at the deadline next season.

It's Ant taking Scoot's role for possibly up to 3 years - who was also a MUCH higher pick and was the red line for the team forcing Dame to request a trade - that really frustrates me.

[PDXKnight]

I wasn't aware the magic forum has an ant simons thread. Seems like he's valued in some parts hah

[Walton1one]

The only way I can see MIL acquiring both RW3 & Grant in a direct swap with POR would be if they completed (2) separate deals for Middleton & Portis, which doesn't make a ton of sense to me.

Middleton for Grant
Portis for RW3

Could be a 3-team deal?

Grant likely has little\negligible value? RW3 is worth a protected 1st IMO.

MIL is $6.5 over 2nd apron. I think that I heard a team could aggregate contracts in a deal, as long as that deal brought them under the 2nd apron? So technically, MIL could aggregate contracts as long as they took $6.5+ less back in salary.

So, something like
POR sends RW3 & Grant to MIL
POR sends 27' 2nd to DET
MIL sends Middleton & AJ Johnson & 31' 1st (lotto protect) to POR
MIL sends Portis & Connaughton and 31' 2nd to DET
DET sends Fontecchio to POR

OR a bigger deal where
DET gets Simons, Reath & Portis + 2nd from POR & 31' 2nd from MIL
POR gets Middleton\Connaughton\Johnson\31' 1st from MIL & THJ\25' 2nd (via TOR) from DET
MIL gets Grant\RW3 from POR & Fontecchio from DET

I do like the conspiracy theory of MIL trading their 31' 1st to POR, as when inevitability sinks in and htey have to rebuild they have one team (POR) with the ability to give them control over their own picks, much like the situations b\t HOU\BRK and now HOU\PHX

[Norm2953]

There is indeed a long discussion on the Magic board about trading for Simons. That is an one
offensively challenged team. I do believe Ant passed his audition.

Let's see if it gets done for the happiest person might be our old friend Skybox, who has
been pounding the table for Simons for more than a year.

[Butter]

What are the odds for players to get traded?

Simons. 50%
Grant 25%
Ayton 0%

[Skybox]

Orlando fans are at the point they want Simons they’re willing to take Ayton… I just can’t…

Wait, what???

No, they are certainly not…Ayton is the worst fit imaginable for their frontcourt…and I kind of like Ayton. He needs to go to ATL.

But…
ORL sends: Isaac, Cole, Jett, DEN 25 frp, 2 srps
POR sends: Simons, Rob Williams

POR gets a versatile defensive standout and mentor to Clingan in Isaac, with considerable financial savings when his deal plummets from $25 to $15m, Cole has one more year at $13m, but could find a home as 3rd guard, Jett is a decent prospect that might complement Scoot long-term, plus picks. Simons is in the way of their future backcourt and in the way of their tank…odds are, he walks without an overpay, so POR would be wise to move him for a significant return.

ORL gets the scorer/playmaker they badly need and plug the frontcourt hole with an elite interior defender. Williams’ injury situation and minutes restriction is similar to Isaac, but that’s workable, given the roster.

[JRoy]

Orlando fans are at the point they want Simons they’re willing to take Ayton… I just can’t…

Wait, what???

No, they are certainly not…Ayton is the worst fit imaginable for their frontcourt…and I kind of like Ayton. He needs to go to ATL.

But…
ORL sends: Isaac, Cole, Jett, DEN 25 frp, 2 srps
POR sends: Simons, Rob Williams

POR gets a versatile defensive standout and mentor to Clingan in Isaac, with considerable financial savings when his deal plummets from $25 to $15m, Cole has one more year at $13m, but could find a home as 3rd guard, Jett is a decent prospect that might complement Scoot long-term, plus picks. Simons is in the way of their future backcourt and in the way of their tank…odds are, he walks without an overpay, so POR would be wise to move him for a significant return.

ORL gets the scorer/playmaker they badly need and plug the frontcourt hole with an elite interior defender. Williams’ injury situation and minutes restriction is similar to Isaac, but that’s workable, given the roster.

Works for me.

[Wizenheimer]

But…
ORL sends: Isaac, Cole, Jett, DEN 25 frp, 2 srps
POR sends: Simons, Rob Williams

my counter:

Orlando keeps Jett; the Blazers already have enough mediocre shooters from the perimeter and his inclusion bumps the Blazers over the tax line. Not only that, even without Jett, Portland is sending out 79M in current & future salary, but taking back 74M. That's simply not enough savings to represent any leverage or inducement from Orlando. Orlando fans need to keep in mind there are Seattle bean-counters running the Blazers, and this trade doesn't save enough beans

the problem with an Issac for Williams swap is it adds 2M to next year's cap and 8M to the 2026-27 cap. They are both injury prone players but when healthy Williams is much better than Issac. So, as it stands, the Williams for Issac part of this trade breaks significantly in Orlando's favor

which dovetails into another reality: Orlando is getting the two best players, significantly better, in this trade. So that Denver 1st isn't going to be enough leverage. IMO, it would need to be the Orlando 1st, lottery protected; if not conveyed it would need to be the Denver 1st + future 1st or 3 seconds. Now I know that Orlando would probably balk at that extra first so those 3 seconds could be substituted without probably killing the deal

again though, the simple deal is Simons for Anthony + Harris + Orlando 1st (lottery protected); if not, Denver 1st + 1 second

the biggest problem with all of this is that it's possible Portland has an incompetent GM. The way the Blazes have managed the last 2 years seems to be confirmation of that. At this point I will be surprised is Portland does anything more than maybe trade Reath for a 2nd