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I'm considering changing to a system where we vote for 3 players, but I don't want to discourage anyone from voting. What do we think?

vote: Kevin Duckworth

2x all-star center in an era of dominant centers, 7 seasons with Portland, winner of the most improved player award, Trail Blazers Community Ambassador and active in Portland's community after his retirement - hell, he died on the way to host a free children's basketball camp. his importance to the Blazers franchise was high enough that the Blazers even funded a scholarship in his memorial.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW8oBX5ywCo[/youtube]

the fact that there is a long tenured, multi-time all-star with Portland that has fallen this far is getting ridiculous.

I'm committed to Rod Strickland until he gets in. Really think his Portland time was underrated and under-appreciated.

I'm gonna vote for [b]Zach Randolph/b] here. Although the teams around him sucked he's not entirely to blame for that. Ultimately the guy could play and I'm voting for him at 20

Are we voting for the 1-3 choices?

All things equal, I'd opt for Scottie Pippen who was a key player on the teams that were one
quarter away from an NBA championship. I'm okay with Duck as my second choice and I'd
go with Zach as my third choice. I tend to downgrade the members of the Jail Blazers but
Zach's had a solid career.

reminder: Rod Strickland's second tenure lead to the 2001 collapse.

reminder: Zach Randolph was arrested for smoking dope and driving, and sucker punching Ruben Patterson in the face, breaking his eye socket and forcing him to miss games.

reminder: Scottie Pippen wasn't prime Scottie Pippen during his Portland tenure. he was a 34-37 year old overpaid role player that provided zero leadership when it was needed the most.

and as far as contributions to a winning team goes, let's not forget that Duckworth was the starting center on a team that went to two NBA finals and three Western Conference finals. the closest nominated role player is Pippen, who role played himself to one Western Conference finals appearance and three first round blowouts.

Duckworth wins in accolades. Duckworth wins on legacy. Duckworth wins on tenure. Duckworth wins on (non-defensive) stats. I'm not getting the lack of appreciation. this contest has always been about the greatest Blazers - not the most popular Blazers, or players that were great elsewhere but at one point played for Portland.

JasonStern wrote:reminder: Rod Strickland's second tenure lead to the 2001 collapse.

reminder: Zach Randolph was arrested for smoking dope and driving, and sucker punching Ruben Patterson in the face, breaking his eye socket and forcing him to miss games.

reminder: Scottie Pippen wasn't prime Scottie Pippen during his Portland tenure. he was a 34-37 year old overpaid role player that provided zero leadership when it was needed the most.

and as far as contributions to a winning team goes, let's not forget that Duckworth was the starting center on a team that went to two NBA finals and three Western Conference finals. the closest nominated role player is Pippen, who role played himself to one Western Conference finals appearance and three first round blowouts.

Duckworth wins in accolades. Duckworth wins on legacy. Duckworth wins on tenure. Duckworth wins on (non-defensive) stats. I'm not getting the lack of appreciation. this contest has always been about the greatest Blazers - not the most popular Blazers, or players that were great elsewhere but at one point played for Portland.

I said in my original vote for Strickland that I was not taking his second tenure into consideration but if bringing a backup PG in to play 16 minutes a game for the final 20 games leads to a collapse the team was extremely fragile and pretty much any straw was going to break that camels back.

When was Z-Bo arrested for "smoking dope" and driving? I think we are all aware of Randolph's off the court issues while in Portland and taking them into consideration when voting.

For the most part I agree with you about Pippen. He had one very good season, a pretty good season and then his final few years were frankly not very good. IMO his one very good season was nearly great and nearly enough to catapult him ahead of some of the guys we have already picked.

I'm as big of a fan of the late 80s, early 90s teams as anyone. I appreciate Duckworth's contributions and he was a really good guy dedicated to the franchise and community later in his life. That being said, despite his two all-star appearances, he was a below average player that was in the right place at the right time. As a center Duckworth never had a PER over 15, was a poor rebounder, did not block shots, and did not shoot a very high percentage (especially in relation to the era). Towards the end of his tenure he put on a lot of weight and that was one of the contributing factors to the team's fade. All that being said I still have Duckworth in my top 30 and ahead of Z-Bo.

I'd have to agree Sensei's sentiments for at #20, there are no great Blazers for Scottie Pippen was
well past his prime and cast in a point forward role which he never had to play during his prime. That
was a tough role for a 34 yr old player on his last legs but at least in that first year with an also aging
Sabonis, those two real pros were key members of a team that simply ran out of gas in the fourth
quarter.

One could actually make a case for Batum at 20 for he played 7 seasons in Portland and we all know
his contributions to the team aren't necessarily reflected on the stats sheet.

a_sensei wrote:I'm as big of a fan of the late 80s, early 90s teams as anyone. I appreciate Duckworth's contributions and he was a really good guy dedicated to the franchise and community later in his life. That being said, despite his two all-star appearances, he was a below average player that was in the right place at the right time. As a center Duckworth never had a PER over 15, was a poor rebounder, did not block shots, and did not shoot a very high percentage (especially in relation to the era). Towards the end of his tenure he put on a lot of weight and that was one of the contributing factors to the team's fade.

which is why I am advocating for him now at #20 and not in the top 10 like other multiple-time all-stars.

Norm2953 wrote:One could actually make a case for Batum at 20 for he played 7 seasons in Portland and we all know
his contributions to the team aren't necessarily reflected on the stats sheet.

I actually have Batum ahead of Pippen and was going to (but forgot to) make that point, especially when considering role player small forwards that seemed to disappear when the game was on the line.

Staying with Duck

Here's a vote for Shaler Halimon.

I'm going with Kevin Duckworth here. Sure, he had his weaknesses, but I feel he is worthy at this point. A long time with the team and at least a valuable offensive cog to the late 80s and early 90s teams.

Others on my radar:

Lionel Hollins
Kiki Vandeweghe
Cliff Robinson
Rod Strickland
Scottie Pippen
Zach Randolph
Nicolas Batum

Moonbeam wrote:Others on my radar:

Lionel Hollins
Kiki Vandeweghe
Cliff Robinson
Rod Strickland
Scottie Pippen
Zach Randolph
Nicolas Batum

Cliff Robinson was selected 14th.

JasonStern wrote:

Moonbeam wrote:Others on my radar:

Lionel Hollins
Kiki Vandeweghe
Cliff Robinson
Rod Strickland
Scottie Pippen
Zach Randolph
Nicolas Batum

Cliff Robinson was selected 14th.

Doh! I hadn't deleted him from my list even though he got in, and I was aware that he was in. These terrible 2s my son is going through are cracking me!

I've been hoping someone would vote for either Duckworth or one of the other 3 guys who have gotten votes, as we're currently looking at a 4-way runoff:

Kevin Duckworth (3): JasonStern, Masterfully, Moonbeam

Rod Strickland (1): a_sensei

Zach Randolph (1): Oden2

Scottie Pippen (1): Norm2953

From here on, the project will now see you vote for your top 3 choices.

From this lot, I think I'd go:

1. Kevin Duckworth
2. Rod Strickland: a PG who never quite broke through as a real star, but a very good PG for many teams over the years. He may have had his best years on some dysfunctional Portland teams, but I never felt Rod was to blame for any of it.
3. Scottie Pippen: a very fine player, to be sure. His leadership and experience were pivotal for the 2000 Blazers. That said, he was clearly on the down side of his career, and I'm not sure his intangibles that helped the team in 2000 outweigh the more consistent play of Strickland during his 4 years with the team in his prime.

Randolph is a fine, if disgruntled, player worth considering at this point, but I have him behind the others for now. He has been much more effective in Memphis.

Yikes - no more votes yet? Perhaps it's time to finish the project at 20, as the season is kicking into gear!

Moonbeam wrote:Yikes - no more votes yet? Perhaps it's time to finish the project at 20, as the season is kicking into gear!

and end it with Ha Seung-Jin not making the list?

In my mind, after Mychal Thompson at 15, there really were no more "great" players for
everyone else were either role players or guys with real flaws in their games The next
great Blazer player is in high school.

Norm2953 wrote:In my mind, after Mychal Thompson at 15, there really were no more "great" players for
everyone else were either role players or guys with real flaws in their games The next
great Blazer player is in high school.

Absolutely. This project has shone a light on just how few great players the Blazers have enjoyed throughout their 45 years. It's pretty remarkable that with all of the injuries and a seeming dearth of greatness, Portland is in contention for the 5th best franchise record all-time. Perhaps the same would be true of most franchises, if we examined it more deeply.