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OT: 2017 Ducks and Beavers Football Thread

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Re: OT: 2017 Ducks and Beavers Football Thread 

Post#121 » by Wizenheimer » Wed Dec 6, 2017 6:01 am

ok then, there are some things worth saying about Taggart

the first is he suckered me. I bought into all his homespun philosophies about integrity and accontability. I thought he was going to walk the walk he talked.

but that's not really what happened is it...I'll lead with what's simple, he flat out lied:

On Friday Willie Taggart was asked point-blank if he or his agent had been contacted by officials at Florida State. His response was flippant.

“Nope,” he said quickly, before adding. “Can we move on now?"

Two days later Taggart was asked similar questions, to which he responded "nothing has changed."

On Tuesday, three hours after Taggart had accepted the aforementioned job to become the Seminoles head coach, Taggart's comments can be called into question. According to the timeline laid out by Oregon Athletic Director Rob Mullens, Taggart first began speaking with FSU officials the day prior to Friday's media availability.

"(Florida State) called me Thursday and let me know they wanted to reach out to him," Mullens told reporters. "(Taggart) called me later Thursday to let me know that they had reached out to him."


https://oregon.247sports.com/Bolt/Oregon-athletic-director-Rob-Mullens-says-Florida-State-reached-out-to-Willie-Taggart-prior-to-Friday-111810032

in other words, when asked a direct question about whether he or his agent were in contact with FSU Taggart chose to lie. Making it worse was that at both press conferences, Taggart was asked if he was going to remain the Oregon coach..his response both times was "why wouldn't I". Somehow, with those 3 words, Taggart was able to be evasive, disingenuous, and condescending, all at the same time. That takes some real talent...or just a strong natural instinct of dishonesty
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it isn't just the media and the fans that have experienced Taggart's slippery behavior. There are plenty of reports that a lot of Duck players were blindsided by Taggart's departure because he had led them to believe even though FSU was his dream job he felt too much of a commitment to them to leave. Reportedly, after Taggart gave a pretty quick speech about taking the FSU job, then hurriedly leaving, plenty of screaming and cursing was heard behind the closed doors where the players were. A lot of anger from feelings of betrayal.

and of course, Oregon's top-rated recruiting class is crumbling. Several commits have de-committed including the #1 player in Washington who said he did so because he couldn't get a straight answer out of Taggart. Another said Taggart promised to call him back and explain, but never called back

several recruits talked about Taggart just coming into their homes and lying to them, two examples:

Chris Randazzo

"I feel blind sided, everyone kept saying it’s all hype and I believed them and now that it’s official, I’m sick to my stomach. Coach Taggart just sat in my house last Friday and sold the Ducks to me and then leaves like that? It’s just sickening. I still love Oregon and the rest of the coaches up there so I'm going to stay solid until I see who is hired but a lot of other schools have already been hitting me up."


Travis Dye

"This is really disappointing," Dye's father Mark said. "He (Taggart) came in to our home Friday and was adamant that the rumors were nonsense, he hadn't talked to anyone at FSU and said not to listen to any of them. He even brought it up, not us, he didn't even need to talk about it. In hindsight, I guess he wasn't lying, it was all through his agent but this just kills us because Travis was planning to sign early and graduate early, now that's up in the air."


there are other similar responses. There was also the father of one of Oregon's true freshmen from Florida who was incensed at Taggart because he believed that Taggart not only lied to him last year while recruiting his son, but also lied to him in a conversation a couple of weeks ago
************************************************

lastly, I've been seeing some Taggart apologists try and shine up the turd of his departure. they talk a lot about FSU being Taggart's dream job and how he needed to look after his family's financial security. Oh, and the corker is when they talk about how "torn" he was about this decision

I have some things to say about that...now, maybe I'm just being petty...I'm open to that possibility

but I look at it this way: Taggart had two choices. Either choice offered him financial security, although if my math is right Taggart has already made 12-15 million dollars over the last 8 years. I have to say, if he hasn't already coaxed financial security out of that, he's a moron

anyway, 2 choices, both of them jobs as the head coach of two different major college football programs. Both offering him at least 20 million guaranteed dollars over the next 5 years. Frankly, I don't give a **** how torn he was facing that kind of dilemma. There's no losing with that kind of choice

and I get it, one choice was to coach the team that was his boyhood dream job. That's quite an opportunity. But to choose that option he would be choosing a path of low integrity; he would be choosing to damage his current program, and current employer. The one that gave him his first opportunity to head a major college team. Instead of saying to himself that it was just his bad luck that his dream job opened up less then 12 months after he took the Oregon job, he chose to make that Oregon's bad luck instead. That's not a choice of principle, it's one of self-interest at the price of principle. The man who preached accountability and sacrifice to his players failed the test of accountability when it required some sacrifice of his own

so spare me the lectures about how I should wish Taggart well and forgive him for the evasive and disingenuous way he conducted himself over the last 5 days, and as it turns out, even longer. I'm not buying it. Now again, maybe that's me being petulant and petty, but I know for certain at this point I don't have any sympathy to lend to Taggart

Changed an altered word that was meant to get around the language filter. - TSE.
Last edited by The Sebastian Express on Wed Dec 6, 2017 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Just changed a dollar sign to a normal s to stop a language filter bypass.
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Re: OT: 2017 Ducks and Beavers Football Thread 

Post#122 » by Wizenheimer » Wed Dec 6, 2017 6:05 am

by the way, unfortunately, there are a lot of rumors that Jim Leavitt will be going to FSU with Taggart. Supposedly, that was a condition of Taggart's FSU offer. Not sure how credible those rumors are but they apparently are coming from several sources so it doesn't look good
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Re: OT: 2017 Ducks and Beavers Football Thread 

Post#123 » by JasonStern » Wed Dec 6, 2017 6:26 am

I was against the Taggart hire. See last year's thread. Underperformed the talent he had acquired. 0 bowl wins. 0 outright conference championships. Not the resume I would expect for Nike U.

But he hired an amazing staff and won me over. I was buckled up, doing something drinking juice and milk and snake oil.

Then he left. Sucks but he owed fans nothing. He owed the administration communication and a buyout which it sounded like they got. But the players and recruits? Totally f'd them over. I am fine with him leaving for FSU, but how he did it makes me dislike the guy. See how Scott Frost handled it in comparison.

So now FSU is giving UO millions of dollars to get out of a coach's contract. In a year where, get this, Chip Kelly and Scott Frost are taking power five jobs!

Season was a mulligan. The local boy turned out to be limited in his abilities. The car salesman turned out to be more interested in selling himself. Exciting times to see where we go from here.
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Re: OT: 2017 Ducks and Beavers Football Thread 

Post#124 » by The Sebastian Express » Wed Dec 6, 2017 10:07 am

Totally get the anger and stuff, but just a friendly reminder to please just type the curse word out instead of bypassing it with special signs and letters.
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Re: OT: 2017 Ducks and Beavers Football Thread 

Post#125 » by Wizenheimer » Wed Dec 6, 2017 4:56 pm

The Sebastian Express wrote:Totally get the anger and stuff, but just a friendly reminder to please just type the curse word out instead of bypassing it with special signs and letters.


sorry about that....although I will say that using a '$' sign instead an 's' seemed really appropriate in the taggart saga

**********************************************************************

I was just told something else about Taggart: apparently, a big Oregon booster loaned the UofO his private jet to take Taggart on the recruiting trip he left on Monday. Marcus Arroyo was on the jet as well. It was scheduled to take Taggart to about 12-14 different visits in Arizona, Texas, & Florida. But Taggart only visited 1 recruit in Arizona, then flew to Texas where he met with FSU and negotiated his new deal. And since at the time he was in control of the jet, after the negotiations he ordered the pilots to take him back to Eugene. I think that speaks volumes about Taggart's ethics, and apparently there's a very pissed off booster
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Re: OT: 2017 Ducks and Beavers Football Thread 

Post#126 » by Fitz303 » Wed Dec 6, 2017 5:24 pm

well at least there's a little optimism about Leavitt. It looks like the other guy deleted his twitter, so you can't see what he wrote, but Leavitt's tweets seem encouraging

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Re: OT: 2017 Ducks and Beavers Football Thread 

Post#127 » by Wizenheimer » Wed Dec 6, 2017 6:04 pm

Fitz303 wrote:well at least there's a little optimism about Leavitt. It looks like the other guy deleted his twitter, so you can't see what he wrote, but Leavitt's tweets seem encouraging


maybe I'm just gun shy but "What makes you think I'm going to FSU" is way too much like Taggart's "why wouldn't I" answers to if he was going to stay at Oregon. The whole world knows now that Taggart was flat-out lying for days. He lied to the fans, to the media, to players, and to commits

Leavitt has a reputation as a straight-shooter so gauging him by Taggart standards is unfair. Of course, I probably wouldn't trust even a definitive answer at this point. There do seem to be a lot pf people who have sources at Oregon convinced Leavitt is gone unless he gets the head coach position
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Re: OT: 2017 Ducks and Beavers Football Thread 

Post#128 » by Wizenheimer » Wed Dec 6, 2017 7:27 pm

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Re: OT: 2017 Ducks and Beavers Football Thread 

Post#129 » by PDX MM » Wed Dec 6, 2017 7:51 pm

Last night on the radio they were talking about possible replacements and Kevin Sumlin's name popped up. I really like this idea and if he was interested I would offer him the job first. I haven't gone back and read all of the posts in this thread but what is everyones feeling on that? Ok to go outside the school again to hire or would you rather stay in house and hope to avoid another 1 and done?
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Re: OT: 2017 Ducks and Beavers Football Thread 

Post#130 » by Wizenheimer » Wed Dec 6, 2017 7:59 pm

yep...Duck players are starting to speak out. Troy Dye earlier, now Deommodore Lenoir:

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Re: OT: 2017 Ducks and Beavers Football Thread 

Post#131 » by Wizenheimer » Wed Dec 6, 2017 8:26 pm

PDX MM wrote:Last night on the radio they were talking about possible replacements and Kevin Sumlin's name popped up. I really like this idea and if he was interested I would offer him the job first. I haven't gone back and read all of the posts in this thread but what is everyones feeling on that? Ok to go outside the school again to hire or would you rather stay in house and hope to avoid another 1 and done?


I subscribe to a premium Duck site. I also have a couple of pretty good friends who have some connections to the Duck 'brain trust'. They aren't as connected now as they were to the previous staff though (Bellotti-Chip-Helfrich)

the little I know at this point:

Ducks want a new staff with the energy and commitment to recruiting as the Taggart staff. They just want a HC with a lot more integrity then Taggart

Sumlin is a leading candidate. Chatter is he delayed committing to the UCF job because of the possibility of Oregon opening up. It's said he wants the job and is known as a top-level recruiter with great connections in Texas. That's all important. His record as a HC is a little spotty and I think there could be some reservations about him

Cristobol didn't get the interim job on a whim. He's a leading candidate. He's a high energy recruiter with an Alabama pedigree. He was one of only 2 coaches who ever had a winning record at FIU. He's got great recruiting connections in Florida and all across SEC country. Those are heavy advantages for him. And the Oregon players seem to be behind him 100%

Leavitt...I don't think he's a candidate, but he might be a darkhorse one. The biggest problem is his past. he got fired for hitting a player while grabbing his throat, then lying about it. That was 8 years ago. Another big problem may be, like Taggart, his 'dream job'. In his current contact he has a sizable buyout for an assistant coach. But there is one escape clause...he can avoid the buyout if he leaves to accept the head coach position at Kansas State. The suspicion is that the Oregon AD talked to him about the HC position but required that Leavitt drop that clause and Leavitt refused. I doubt Leavitt will even remain as the DC but I might be wrong about that

Josh Wilcox...the one guy that might actually have Oregon as his 'dream job'. He has lots of family in Oregon, even in the Eugene area. He may be another leading candidate, But I've heard that some at oregon aren't that impressed with him because he's not that dynamic. I've also heard that some are reluctant to do to Cal what FSU did to Oregon...that is stealing a coach after 1 year on the job leaving damage and disruption behind

Jim McElwain....the ex Florida coach was supposedly on Oregon's short list last season but turned them down. I wouldn't like this guy as HC and I'm not hearing a lot of support for him, but who knows

Bryan Harsin....the Boise State head coach. I hear he has some support but he's also not getting glowing reviews in Boise

Mike Leach....yeah, him. Rumor is he really wants out of WSU and would love to have the Oregon job. He has some support at Oregon but he has some detractors to. He's done a good job at WSU and would likely do a better job at Oregon. He's also likely be able to keep Joe Salave'a ast dline coach, especially if he brought Alex Grinch as DC. He might be a dark horse candidate but I'm skeptical
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Re: OT: 2017 Ducks and Beavers Football Thread 

Post#132 » by PDX MM » Wed Dec 6, 2017 9:25 pm

Sumlin was 51-25 at Texas A&M with all but 2 seasons in the SEC so considering how tough that conference is I don't think that is a bad record. He is my hopeful choice but Wilcox is an interesting idea.
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Re: OT: 2017 Ducks and Beavers Football Thread 

Post#133 » by PDXKnight » Wed Dec 6, 2017 10:28 pm

It's funny one year later Willie Taggart said pretty much the same things at his presser for fsu as he did for Oregon. FSU fans seem to be on the Taggart train for now, I wonder how fast that'll change if he starts looking at an NFL job...
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Re: OT: 2017 Ducks and Beavers Football Thread 

Post#134 » by PDXKnight » Thu Dec 7, 2017 4:53 am

PDX MM wrote:Sumlin was 51-25 at Texas A&M with all but 2 seasons in the SEC so considering how tough that conference is I don't think that is a bad record. He is my hopeful choice but Wilcox is an interesting idea.


I feel like Sumlin wouldn't think twice to use Oregon as a stepping stone. I'd just let him go to UCF personally..
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Re: OT: 2017 Ducks and Beavers Football Thread 

Post#135 » by PDX MM » Thu Dec 7, 2017 4:59 am

Oden2 wrote:
PDX MM wrote:Sumlin was 51-25 at Texas A&M with all but 2 seasons in the SEC so considering how tough that conference is I don't think that is a bad record. He is my hopeful choice but Wilcox is an interesting idea.


I feel like Sumlin wouldn't think twice to use Oregon as a stepping stone. I'd just let him go to UCF personally..


It wouldn't surprise me and that is why I asked if we as fans would be willing to take that chance. Myself I am willing to take that chance because I really like what we would be getting. Now a devil's advocate says that any coach we hire could be using Oregon as a stepping stone.
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Re: OT: 2017 Ducks and Beavers Football Thread 

Post#136 » by PDXKnight » Thu Dec 7, 2017 12:53 pm

PDX MM wrote:
Oden2 wrote:
PDX MM wrote:Sumlin was 51-25 at Texas A&M with all but 2 seasons in the SEC so considering how tough that conference is I don't think that is a bad record. He is my hopeful choice but Wilcox is an interesting idea.


I feel like Sumlin wouldn't think twice to use Oregon as a stepping stone. I'd just let him go to UCF personally..


It wouldn't surprise me and that is why I asked if we as fans would be willing to take that chance. Myself I am willing to take that chance because I really like what we would be getting. Now a devil's advocate says that any coach we hire could be using Oregon as a stepping stone.


They might but I don't think they would to the extent that willie did. For sure Wilcox sees Oregon as the top college job but he's he's also a bit unproven as a hc. I also think cristobal or leavitt would stick it out longer too

Of course the best route has gotta be make the buyout such that it'll either bet Oregon big money or keep the coach around. Eitherô way we win since big money would get us a nice replacement if he pulls a taggart. I'd feel more comfortable with sumlin if his buyout is in the neighborhood of 12-15 mil
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Re: OT: 2017 Ducks and Beavers Football Thread 

Post#137 » by Wizenheimer » Thu Dec 7, 2017 4:26 pm

Oden2 wrote:Of course the best route has gotta be make the buyout such that it'll either bet Oregon big money or keep the coach around. Eitherô way we win since big money would get us a nice replacement if he pulls a taggart. I'd feel more comfortable with sumlin if his buyout is in the neighborhood of 12-15 mil


there's some misinformation about those buyout's circulating around

for instance, Oregon's AD Rob Mullens is getting criticized for not insisting for a large buyout in the Taggart contract. That's only half the story, at most. The Ducks had just fired Mark Helfrich and were on the hook for hi 11-12 million 'buyout' for firing him. That's the rub: all contracts will have a 'I'm-leaving-for-another-job' buyout and a 'we're-firing-you' buyout. Those 2 buyouts operate in a pretty traditional equilibrium. If the Ducks had wanted a 12 million buyout for leaving after the first year, they would have had to accede to a very large buyout for firing him in the same time frame. And with that 11-12 million buyout for Helfrich hanging over the budget, that would have been a very risky demand; Taggart could have come in and failed miserably in the first year, and Oregon could have been facing a choice between it's 2nd costly buyout in a calendar year or letting Taggart run the football program into the ground
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Re: OT: 2017 Ducks and Beavers Football Thread 

Post#138 » by JasonStern » Thu Dec 7, 2017 9:02 pm

buyouts work both ways, though. Sumlin could probably be had for cheap since a majority of any salary Oregon sends his way would just go to offset his current contract with A&M.

would never happen, but a brilliant move financially would be to hire Sumlin for cheap, then use either the Taggart buyout money or $4 million/season Oregon was intending to spend on Taggart to retain Cristobal and Leavitt. Sumlin isn't going to get a better win-now opportunity than taking over Oregon with Herbert at QB. then two years later, Oregon can re-evaluate. re-up Sumlin, promote Cristobal, promote Leavitt, etc.
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Re: OT: 2017 Ducks and Beavers Football Thread 

Post#139 » by Wizenheimer » Fri Dec 8, 2017 5:04 pm

the interim label has been dropped and Mario Cristobal has been promoted to Head Coach for the UofO Ducks footbal team
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Re: OT: 2017 Ducks and Beavers Football Thread 

Post#140 » by PDXKnight » Fri Dec 8, 2017 6:37 pm

Wizenheimer wrote:the interim label has been dropped and Mario Cristobal has been promoted to Head Coach for the UofO Ducks footbal team


It'll be interesting. His record at FIU wasn't great but FIU is a hard place to coach and he's worked under Nick Saban since. Seems like he was hired mainly because he is a great recruiter. Priority number 1 has got to be to get a great staff around him. Preferrably keeping as many assistants as possible would be great but It'd be awesome if he could snag at least 1 guy from the bama staff

I'm assuming someone like Cristobal only gets something along the lines of 10-16 mil/ 4 years due to his lack of successful HC experience. I'd be really disappointed if I find out we offered him something silly

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