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Paul Allen, RIP

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Re: Paul Allen, RIP 

Post#21 » by Soulyss » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:25 pm

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zzaj wrote:I have a hard time believing the team would be moved to any of the proposed "new" options like Seattle or Las Vegas. The team would generate more money being established here, than getting injected into a new market. I highly doubt the NBA would allow a move to happen.

The TYPE of ownership is completely up for grabs. We've been spoiled by the constancy and deep pockets of PA for a long time. Owners typically have a massive amount to do with the tone-setting for a franchise...things could be very different in time.


I don't think the NBA would allow a move for the simple reason that there would be no teams left in the northwestern part of the country anymore. There's be a void in about a quarter of the market and also going into Canada. And we don't have an issue of an outdated stadium like the Sonic owners used as an excuse to get to move.

But I'm aware we're going to see a lot of rumors, a lot of speculation and probably moments of panic and it's going to be a rough year for us that way.

I'm not surprised his sister doesn't want to own the teams, we've heard gossip about that for at least a decade if I remember right. I'm interested to see what kind of owner we do get, it'll set the tone for the next thirty or so years.


Don't the Blazers OWN the Moda Center as well? I don't see PDX moving, the Blazers make money, they have consistently good attendance, etc. I am not worried about it. It will be interesting to see who shows interest in owning the Blazers...
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Re: Paul Allen, RIP 

Post#22 » by Wizenheimer » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:26 pm

The Sebastian Express wrote:
zzaj wrote:I have a hard time believing the team would be moved to any of the proposed "new" options like Seattle or Las Vegas. The team would generate more money being established here, than getting injected into a new market. I highly doubt the NBA would allow a move to happen.

The TYPE of ownership is completely up for grabs. We've been spoiled by the constancy and deep pockets of PA for a long time. Owners typically have a massive amount to do with the tone-setting for a franchise...things could be very different in time.


I don't think the NBA would allow a move for the simple reason that there would be no teams left in the northwestern part of the country anymore. There's be a void in about a quarter of the market and also going into Canada. And we don't have an issue of an outdated stadium like the Sonic owners used as an excuse to get to move.

But I'm aware we're going to see a lot of rumors, a lot of speculation and probably moments of panic and it's going to be a rough year for us that way.

I'm not surprised his sister doesn't want to own the teams, we've heard gossip about that for at least a decade if I remember right. I'm interested to see what kind of owner we do get, it'll set the tone for the next thirty or so years.


whatever happens is very likely to take time...maybe months & months

I'm not sure of Washington laws, but even with an ironclad will, an estate like this may have to go thru probate and mitigation. That could take quite a bit of time because the number of major investments he has are much wider than the two sports teams

then there could be the issue of the Moda Center. Even though they are linked assets, I believe they are separate entities and it may be there are bond issues attached to the facility

another factor: when/if the Blazers go onto the market, that luxury tax exposure could become a major issue. Interim management, tasked with prepping the team for sale, may decide to mitigate and eliminate tax exposure. I doubt that will be a factor before the coming trade deadline because that's only 4 months away, but it's possible.
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Re: Paul Allen, RIP 

Post#23 » by Wizenheimer » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:29 pm

Soulyss wrote:Don't the Blazers OWN the Moda Center as well?


last I heard, Paul Allen owns the Moda Center. It's a separate asset. He may have even folded into Vulcan Real Estae
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Re: Paul Allen, RIP 

Post#24 » by Soulyss » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:32 pm

Wizenheimer wrote:
Soulyss wrote:Don't the Blazers OWN the Moda Center as well?


last I heard, Paul Allen owns the Moda Center. It's a separate asset. He may have even folded into Vulcan Real Estae


I think it all falls under Vulcan... but they aren't going to keep the Moda Center and sell the Blazers... it will go as a package deal.
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Re: Paul Allen, RIP 

Post#25 » by d-train » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:40 pm

zzaj wrote:I have a hard time believing the team would be moved to any of the proposed "new" options like Seattle or Las Vegas. The team would generate more money being established here, than getting injected into a new market. I highly doubt the NBA would allow a move to happen.

The TYPE of ownership is completely up for grabs. We've been spoiled by the constancy and deep pockets of PA for a long time. Owners typically have a massive amount to do with the tone-setting for a franchise...things could be very different in time.

I have no doubt the NBA will allow Blazers to be moved. See the OKC Sonics. The NBA doesn't care what city can sell the most tickets, see Sacramento and Seattle. NBA will support viable cities that have political policies that support an NBA city.

Maybe Portland has been saved by Paul Allen. If true, Paul Allen never got any gratitude. If Portland wants to keep its team, there is nothing for fans to fear. If Portland has the same "sugar daddy" plan Seattle has. Say goodbye to Blazers.
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Re: Paul Allen, RIP 

Post#26 » by JasonStern » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:49 pm

The Trail Blazers have a lease agreement with Moda Center which runs through 2025, and an exclusive site agreement with the City of Portland requires the team to remain in Portland through 2023.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moda_Center

so the Blazers remaining in Portland is fine - at least until the Blazers piss away peak Lillard-McCollum.
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Re: Paul Allen, RIP 

Post#27 » by d-train » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:50 pm

Soulyss wrote:
Wizenheimer wrote:
Soulyss wrote:Don't the Blazers OWN the Moda Center as well?


last I heard, Paul Allen owns the Moda Center. It's a separate asset. He may have even folded into Vulcan Real Estae


I think it all falls under Vulcan... but they aren't going to keep the Moda Center and sell the Blazers... it will go as a package deal.

The link is soly dependant on Moda's suitability as a NBA facility. They could be still packaged but it's much less likely if Portland needs a new building.
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Re: Paul Allen, RIP 

Post#28 » by Effigy » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:52 pm

Wow, this is rough news. :(
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Re: Paul Allen, RIP 

Post#29 » by d-train » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:55 pm

[youtube][/youtube]
JasonStern wrote:
The Trail Blazers have a lease agreement with Moda Center which runs through 2025, and an exclusive site agreement with the City of Portland requires the team to remain in Portland through 2023.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moda_Center

so the Blazers remaining in Portland is fine - at least until the Blazers piss away peak Lillard-McCollum.

The so-called exclusive site agreement is nothing but a loan guarantee. Portland has no claim against the Blazers franchise.
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Re: Paul Allen, RIP 

Post#30 » by Wizenheimer » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:59 pm

JasonStern wrote:
The Trail Blazers have a lease agreement with Moda Center which runs through 2025, and an exclusive site agreement with the City of Portland requires the team to remain in Portland through 2023.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moda_Center

so the Blazers remaining in Portland is fine - at least until the Blazers piss away peak Lillard-McCollum.


so the team and the Moda Center are separate entities under Vulcan S&E; and the team has a lease agreement, I'm assuming a limited one, with the Moda Center. Likely because of tax ramifications...or maybe just too complex to combine

so, practically, they could be sold as a package, but sometimes, practical and reality don't mesh well
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Re: Paul Allen, RIP 

Post#31 » by d-train » Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:12 am

Wizenheimer wrote:
JasonStern wrote:
The Trail Blazers have a lease agreement with Moda Center which runs through 2025, and an exclusive site agreement with the City of Portland requires the team to remain in Portland through 2023.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moda_Center

so the Blazers remaining in Portland is fine - at least until the Blazers piss away peak Lillard-McCollum.


so the team and the Moda Center are separate entities under Vulcan S&E; and the team has a lease agreement, I'm assuming a limited one, with the Moda Center. Likely because of tax ramifications...or maybe just too complex to combine

so, practically, they could be sold as a package, but sometimes, practical and reality don't mesh well

The question is, are they a practical package? Probably not if the financial model relies upon SPAM. And, whether they are or aren't packaged probably is more a preference of Allen's estate than anything else.
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Re: Paul Allen, RIP 

Post#32 » by C.lupus » Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:15 am

My condolences to the Allen family and the Blazers family.
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Re: Paul Allen, RIP 

Post#33 » by DusterBuster » Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:50 am

For all the criticizes he took from fans from time to time, this man WAS the TrailBlazers for myself and probably a majority of the 30-something Blazer fans who were too young to remember a Blazers organization not owned by PA.

I very likely don't grow up having a hometown NBA team to root for, and likely wouldn't have a love of basketball, without him.

So for me, this isn't a goodbye, but a thank you.
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Re: Paul Allen, RIP 

Post#34 » by Sinobas » Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:54 am

We lost an owner that was willing to go into the luxury tax if it meant keeping a contender together. That's obviously something you'd rather have as a fan, than not. But through Allen's tenure, we've seen many GMs simply over-pay for mediocrity. The downside of that, is that we are put in a financial situation where we can't jump on certain opportunities that arise. I'd still much rather have an owner that is fitlhy rich and cares about winning, but how much has that paid off for the Blazers in actuality, over the past 30 years?

For example, if Paul Allen were not our owner, do we do the Turner/Crabbe/Leonard contracts?
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Re: Paul Allen, RIP 

Post#35 » by DusterBuster » Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:59 am

Sinobas wrote:We lost an owner that was willing to go into the luxury tax if it meant keeping a contender together. That's obviously something you'd rather have as a fan, than not. But through Allen's tenure, we've seen many GMs simply over-pay for mediocrity. The downside of that, is that we are put in a financial situation where we can't jump on certain opportunities that arise. I'd still much rather have an owner that is fitlhy rich and cares about winning, but how much has that paid off for the Blazers in actuality, over the past 30 years?

For example, if Paul Allen were not our owner, do we do the Turner/Crabbe/Leonard contracts?


A man dies and you bitch about a couple of bad contracts....

Gross.
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Re: Paul Allen, RIP 

Post#36 » by The Sebastian Express » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:17 am

Let's take the more in detail future questions into the Blazers Future thread started by wco. I probably should have started a new thread for that. My bad.

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=1756307
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Re: Paul Allen, RIP 

Post#37 » by JasonStern » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:20 am

d-train wrote:[youtube][/youtube]
JasonStern wrote:
The Trail Blazers have a lease agreement with Moda Center which runs through 2025, and an exclusive site agreement with the City of Portland requires the team to remain in Portland through 2023.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moda_Center

so the Blazers remaining in Portland is fine - at least until the Blazers piss away peak Lillard-McCollum.

The so-called exclusive site agreement is nothing but a loan guarantee. Portland has no claim against the Blazers franchise.


is it possible that the Blazers relocate before 2023? sure, but it's highly unlikely. in addition to the relocation fees, the new owner would be responsible for, at a minimum, paying out the lease through 2023, plus likely some fee for breaking the contract. what potential owner is willing to first spend over a billion to acquire the team, then spend probably another half a billion in dead money to forcibly relocate a profitable team, and to where exactly? the largest markets all have teams, some of which have multiple teams, and the rest have other sports teams to contend with. and then you'd still have to get the league and a majority of the other owners to approve the move. I'm just not seeing it in the short-term at least. 2023 or later? it's definitely a concern..
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Re: Paul Allen, RIP 

Post#38 » by d-train » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:44 am

DusterBuster wrote:
Sinobas wrote:We lost an owner that was willing to go into the luxury tax if it meant keeping a contender together. That's obviously something you'd rather have as a fan, than not. But through Allen's tenure, we've seen many GMs simply over-pay for mediocrity. The downside of that, is that we are put in a financial situation where we can't jump on certain opportunities that arise. I'd still much rather have an owner that is fitlhy rich and cares about winning, but how much has that paid off for the Blazers in actuality, over the past 30 years?

For example, if Paul Allen were not our owner, do we do the Turner/Crabbe/Leonard contracts?


A man dies and you bitch about a couple of bad contracts....

Gross.

I can think of stuff way more gross.
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Re: Paul Allen, RIP 

Post#39 » by d-train » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:46 am

2023 is not to far into the future. I doubt Blazers fans have to worry about the team going anywhere that soon, if at all.
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Re: Paul Allen, RIP 

Post#40 » by Sinobas » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:49 am

DusterBuster wrote:
Sinobas wrote:We lost an owner that was willing to go into the luxury tax if it meant keeping a contender together. That's obviously something you'd rather have as a fan, than not. But through Allen's tenure, we've seen many GMs simply over-pay for mediocrity. The downside of that, is that we are put in a financial situation where we can't jump on certain opportunities that arise. I'd still much rather have an owner that is fitlhy rich and cares about winning, but how much has that paid off for the Blazers in actuality, over the past 30 years?

For example, if Paul Allen were not our owner, do we do the Turner/Crabbe/Leonard contracts?


A man dies and you bitch about a couple of bad contracts....

Gross.


Well, this is a basketball forum, not a funeral. We're going to talk about the basketball implications at some point.

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