Game 4 Rd 2 Portland vs Denver 4:00pm TNT

[monopoman]

I think you could say that Lillard has not looked dominant. CJ and Hood were the big news in the last game. Missing that free throw this game feels bad. I think we're looking to him to take over the game and win it for us. As of late it seems like other guys are stepping up to have a bigger impact in clutch moments, which is good in some ways, but also has an air of uncertainty around it.

Clutchness is a lie though, I mean MJ himself who is supposed to be one of the most clutch players of all time has had games where he misses a buzzer beater that would win it. **** I remember a commercial for Nike where MJ talks about his extremely numerous missed shots when looking at his career in clutch moments and how they made him better.

The commercial did have Jordan eating some humble pie, but during prime Jordan there was not actually much losing going on, period. He was an absolute force on the court, and his presence impacted every playoff game he played in, at least during all those championship runs. He was the high scorer in almost every major playoff game the Bulls had. Yeah he missed clutch shots, but he was always leading the way.

Right he is my Goat and will remain that way for now, I am just saying that there is no "clutch gene" or whatever and if it does exist Lillard does have it he is known for hitting some huge shots.

[Norm2953]

Portland seemed content to allow the Nuggets to dictate tempo by allowing them to run the shot clock to zero. Got to mix things up for even if you give up an open shot with 12 seconds on the clock, you’re forcing the tempo and speeding up the game.

[GreenRiddler]

At the end of the day we won back to back in Denver and at Portland. Just gotta do that again Tues/Thurs.

[Klinky]

Clutchness is a lie though, I mean MJ himself who is supposed to be one of the most clutch players of all time has had games where he misses a buzzer beater that would win it. **** I remember a commercial for Nike where MJ talks about his extremely numerous missed shots when looking at his career in clutch moments and how they made him better.

The commercial did have Jordan eating some humble pie, but during prime Jordan there was not actually much losing going on, period. He was an absolute force on the court, and his presence impacted every playoff game he played in, at least during all those championship runs. He was the high scorer in almost every major playoff game the Bulls had. Yeah he missed clutch shots, but he was always leading the way.

Right he is my Goat and will remain that way for now, I am just saying that there is no "clutch gene" or whatever and if it does exist Lillard does have it he is known for hitting some huge shots.

I think we just want him to will us to victory, and that is a bit unfair, since it's not all on him. He has had big plays in this series, but at the same time it feels like the luster of Game 5 has worn off.

[Norm2953]

I would have liked to see Portland try different lineups for they weren’t getting stops and allowed Denver to run their shot clock down. Game was lost on defensive end

[NuggetsWY]

Millsap had 21-10 and that was a major difference maker. IMO he should do well against Portland's front line.
Murray, as someone already said on this forum, runs hot and cold and tonight he was somewhat hot. Looking at his stats, they were not spectacular but 34 points is impressive, especially against Portland's backcourt.
Jokic had his 21-12-11 triple double, but that's not a shocker and not spectacular (for him LOL).
None of the other Nuggets had impressive games.

Looking at team stats, the biggest difference was Denver had 3 more steals and Portland had 6 more turnovers. The game was as close as the final score.

Aminu had a very nice game and Kanter had 10 boards which is nice, but he had trouble scoring. Lillard's game was one most players would love to have in the playoffs: 28 points with 7 assists. McCollum had 29 points with 5 boards and Curry did some major damage. The game was there for Portland and Denver was lucky to win.

Blazer get called for more fouls on their home court against a team that fouls like crazy. I'm not real interested in stories of Lillard getting calls on a night he shoots the same amount of free throws as Jamal Murray.

Interesting take on which team fouls the most. During the regular season
Portland averaged 20.4 fouls per game and
Denver averaged 20.0 fouls per game.

In the playoffs, Portland is averaging 23.8 fouls at almost the same rate against OKC as against Denver
while Denver is averaging a slight increase over the regular season to 20.9.

Every fan, coach, player, GM, owner, whatever likes to blame the refs - win or lose.

[monopoman]

Yep Denver did get a lot more shots, that was a huge difference in the game. Portland needs to control the ball better, **** even a contested shot is better than throwing the ball away.

Denver ended the game with 10 more shots, and that number was skewed a bit because Portland intentionally fouled Murray like 3 times in the last minuteish. So it was more like they had 13ish more shots in the game pretty hard to win a game when the opposing team hoists 13 more shots at the basket.

[Matt800]

Millsap had 21-10 and that was a major difference maker. IMO he should do well against Portland's front line.
Murray, as someone already said on this forum, runs hot and cold and tonight he was somewhat hot. Looking at his stats, they were not spectacular but 34 points is impressive, especially against Portland's backcourt.
Jokic had his 21-12-11 triple double, but that's not a shocker and not spectacular (for him LOL).
None of the other Nuggets had impressive games.

Looking at team stats, the biggest difference was Denver had 3 more steals and Portland had 6 more turnovers. The game was as close as the final score.

Aminu had a very nice game and Kanter had 10 boards which is nice, but he had trouble scoring. Lillard's game was one most players would love to have in the playoffs: 28 points with 7 assists. McCollum had 29 points with 5 boards and Curry did some major damage. The game was there for Portland and Denver was lucky to win.

Blazer get called for more fouls on their home court against a team that fouls like crazy. I'm not real interested in stories of Lillard getting calls on a night he shoots the same amount of free throws as Jamal Murray.

Interesting take on which team fouls the most. During the regular season
Portland averaged 20.4 fouls per game and
Denver averaged 20.0 fouls per game.

In the playoffs, Portland is averaging 23.8 fouls at almost the same rate against OKC as against Denver
while Denver is averaging a slight increase over the regular season to 20.9.

Every fan, coach, player, GM, owner, whatever likes to blame the refs - win or lose.

Millsap seems to have an advantage against almost every Blazer other than Turner. Unfortunately Turner has been not good other than occasionally stopping Millsap.

I thought DEN came out and executed well especially for being on the road and after playing heavy minutes last game. Murray is really impressive considering he's hurt and still playing at a high level.

Yeah Aminu was solid, although his 3s haven't been falling lately.

I think some POR fans are upset about fouls because there has been a lot of adversity this season and to have the way the game is called add on to that just seems like too much. Especially because it is largely Jokic getting an advantage and the majority of POR's injuries are at that center position. I think POR is playing a little bit uphill with the refs but I think any losses are ultimately on the team and that they didn't play well enough to win.

[wjun15]

My god Lillard has been horrendous this game and series single handed reason we aren't blowing them out.

they wouldn't be in the 2nd round without Dame and he's not as "horrendous" as you claim

Thank you! I wish Lillard played better this game but he is willing this team to wins especially last series. This what have you done for me lately bull is so annoying. Next game I am going 100% Damian attire and going to post some good luck bumps for my man here.

For how much praise a superstar gets he has to receive the blame too. Gary Harris is just locking down Dame on the perimeter right now and it's frustrating to watch. If people are throwing more bodies at you you have to find the open man. It's his job to find the best match ups on the floor like hood against the smaller guards.

[DaVoiceMaster]

The officiating sucked for and against the Blazers. There were a number of calls against the Blazers that were just bad. There were a few calls in the 4th against the Nuggets that were questionable. Kanter should have been in the game instead of Collins so he never would have gotten T'd up. So many little things that could have swung the game the other way.

[Matt800]

The officiating sucked for and against the Blazers. There were a number of calls against the Blazers that were just bad. There were a few calls in the 4th against the Nuggets that were questionable. Kanter should have been in the game instead of Collins so he never would have gotten T'd up. So many little things that could have swung the game the other way.

I didn't really see why Collins got the T, but it will be interesting to see going forward if he is more locked in and composed. That's got to feel awkward to cost your team an extra point at a fairly pivotal part of the game.

[JasonStern]

Drinking, so apologies for not not articulating my thoughts...

If I had to call it, Nuggets in 7, which was my initial guess.

Dame is tired. Shot his shot 1st round game 5. No fluffer in Westbrook to get him up again.

Refs have been bad, but there is no big conspiracy by the league to get any of the small market Denver/Portland/OKC/San Antonio teams to the WCF. if there was going to be a big ref conspiracy, it would have benefited LeBron's Lakers. if rigging the leagues through bribes was a thing, you think Paul Allen would have paid $100+ million 1990s money for the JailBlazers instead of $10 million in golden "I love the refs" thank you cards?

With Nurkic, the Blazers win this series. But with a healthy Roy/Oden/Aldridge/Batum team, this isn't even a series. So why dwell on what could have been?

Season was over when Nurkic went down. Enjoy this hell of a run by a team showing a lot of heart.

Did they really play this game on a Sunday, meaning I have to show up at work tomorrow?

[RTG HD]

Every fan, coach, player, GM, owner, whatever likes to blame the refs - win or lose.

No complaining about the refs to this extent in other rounds or even other years, there is a real Nuggets problem and it centers around Jokic. Denver does not deserve to have got to this series. They simply are not a good enough team without ref intervention. We should be 2-2 against the better Spurs team right now but the NBA did not want to see that matchup happen.

[zzaj]

I didn't realize the game was early today, and as soon as I heard that it was I felt it was going to be a loss. Blazers pulled their old trick from a couple years back of 1 bad quarter a game, and that cost them big time.

I have no real problem with the loss. I said going in that I think Denver is totally capable of winning in Portland--and I thought they would, but held out hope they wouldn't. Now it's just a best of 3...

I also didn't have that big of an issue with the officiating tonight. I thought Kanter's Offensive foul was an erroneous call, and Jokic should be fouling out in the first 24 minutes with how much pushing he does in the post on both ends.

The issue this afternoon was Paul Milsap. The Blazers haven't found an answer for him the whole series--and no Evan Turner is certainly not that answer. I actually think I'd rather see the Blazers go big against Milsap rather than small. Bring in (and I can't believe I'm saying this) Meyers to put a bigger, taller body on him. Meyers is much more physical than Collins. And we know Meyers is going to hang out at the 3pt line, so perhaps that'd open the floor just a bit more. Plus, we've seen that when locked in he can actually rebound a basketball because he takes up space. A few retaliatory hard fouls on both Milsap and Jokic wouldn't hurt either...

Turner shouldn't play again in this series. Hood and Curry should divide his minutes. And I agree with others that Hood should have more plays called for him.

CJ is what he is...he's going to hit some big shots, but he's going to miss some big shots too. Unfortunately, tonight he did basically NOTHING else. His ball watching is awful.

I'll stick up for Lillard here. Tonight seemed like his first inefficient game. I think there is something going on with him that we don't know about. Maybe mental fatigue? Who knows...but if the Blazers are going to win twice against Denver, he and everyone else is going to have to find a way to step up in even a small way.

[NuggetsWY]

Every fan, coach, player, GM, owner, whatever likes to blame the refs - win or lose.

No complaining about the refs to this extent in other rounds or even other years, there is a real Nuggets problem and it centers around Jokic. Denver does not deserve to have got to this series. They simply are not a good enough team without ref intervention. We should be 2-2 against the better Spurs team right now but the NBA did not want to see that matchup happen.

You are sounding like a Rockets fan.
"Denver does not deserve to have got to this series" - yet Denver had a better record in the regular season than Portland and Denver is in the second round and just beat Portland in Portland. Sure am glad Denver paid off every ref in every game all year long and especially the refs in the first round and this round. Or that's what you are implying. I suspect an 82 game regular season is enough to say Denver deserves to be in this series. The standings say that Denver should be playing Portland now and that Denver should win. It doesn't always happen according to the standings, so they play the games just in case.

[NuggetsWY]

I also didn't have that big of an issue with the officiating tonight. I thought Kanter's Offensive foul was an erroneous call, and Jokic should be fouling out in the first 24 minutes with how much pushing he does in the post on both ends.

Yeah, plenty of folk are saying Jokic plays too physical and yet most teams say the best way to play Jokic is physical because he'll lose his cool. If you get to watch every game, Jokic often ends up with scratches and bruises, especially on his arms. It's fairly normal for him. It reminds me of the days of Shaq, especially when he first came into the league. Being so much stronger than most people they play against, the refs tend to not call fouls against them simply because they don't respond to "normal shoves". Then again, Jokic also flops around like a rubber man so much, the refs often don't call the fouls against him (my opinion).

Not sure what the future holds for Jokic's style of play but players, teams, coaches, refs all tend to adjust to "unusual" players. It'll be interesting to see what happens next year.

[RTG HD]

Every fan, coach, player, GM, owner, whatever likes to blame the refs - win or lose.

No complaining about the refs to this extent in other rounds or even other years, there is a real Nuggets problem and it centers around Jokic. Denver does not deserve to have got to this series. They simply are not a good enough team without ref intervention. We should be 2-2 against the better Spurs team right now but the NBA did not want to see that matchup happen.

You are sounding like a Rockets fan.
"Denver does not deserve to have got to this series" - yet Denver had a better record in the regular season than Portland and Denver is in the second round and just beat Portland in Portland. Sure am glad Denver paid off every ref in every game all year long and especially the refs in the first round and this round. Or that's what you are implying. I suspect an 82 game regular season is enough to say Denver deserves to be in this series. The standings say that Denver should be playing Portland now and that Denver should win. It doesn't always happen according to the standings, so they play the games just in case.

Denver would have fewer wins and not be in the second round if not for a systemic ref bias in their favor. Teams like the Spurs often have to overcome the ref bias in favor of their opponents and have proven it very possible over the years. You taking a shot at Rockets fans implies that you might be aware of a systemic bias problem, you just might not see it when it favors you.

[RTG HD]

I also didn't have that big of an issue with the officiating tonight. I thought Kanter's Offensive foul was an erroneous call, and Jokic should be fouling out in the first 24 minutes with how much pushing he does in the post on both ends.

Yeah, plenty of folk are saying Jokic plays too physical and yet most teams say the best way to play Jokic is physical because he'll lose his cool. If you get to watch every game, Jokic often ends up with scratches and bruises, especially on his arms. It's fairly normal for him. It reminds me of the days of Shaq, especially when he first came into the league. Being so much stronger than most people they play against, the refs tend to not call fouls against them simply because they don't respond to "normal shoves". Then again, Jokic also flops around like a rubber man so much, the refs often don't call the fouls against him (my opinion).

Not sure what the future holds for Jokic's style of play but players, teams, coaches, refs all tend to adjust to "unusual" players. It'll be interesting to see what happens next year.

Jokic is a big guy but I don't see anything that would remind me of Shaq in his game. Unlike Shaq Jokic is not overpowering his opponents on a regular basis. Skill wise he is more like a giant Kiki Vandeweghe, scary in its own way but much more so with some conditioning in the future. My main criticism of Jokic is the refs turn a blind eye to his lazy or tired fouls all game long on defense or on rebounds and then call fouls when he flops on the other side of the court.

[monopoman]

Every fan, coach, player, GM, owner, whatever likes to blame the refs - win or lose.

No complaining about the refs to this extent in other rounds or even other years, there is a real Nuggets problem and it centers around Jokic. Denver does not deserve to have got to this series. They simply are not a good enough team without ref intervention. We should be 2-2 against the better Spurs team right now but the NBA did not want to see that matchup happen.

You are sounding like a Rockets fan.
"Denver does not deserve to have got to this series" - yet Denver had a better record in the regular season than Portland and Denver is in the second round and just beat Portland in Portland. Sure am glad Denver paid off every ref in every game all year long and especially the refs in the first round and this round. Or that's what you are implying. I suspect an 82 game regular season is enough to say Denver deserves to be in this series. The standings say that Denver should be playing Portland now and that Denver should win. It doesn't always happen according to the standings, so they play the games just in case.

Maybe someday we can get a win in Denver, I am hoping! Oh wait we already won in Denver now we just have to do it again, also you have 1 win more than Portland acting like your record was MASSIVELY superior is funny. If a few more shots went down in the 3rd this game could have been a win and all of a sudden Denver is pushed to the brink.

Anyways if all you want to do is talk a big game move onto the Denver forums and have your victory party over tying up this series 2-2. Like Lillard said he isn't trying to win one game he is trying to win the series! OKC acted the fool when they won game 3, and we all know how they looked after game 5.

[Matt800]

I also didn't have that big of an issue with the officiating tonight. I thought Kanter's Offensive foul was an erroneous call, and Jokic should be fouling out in the first 24 minutes with how much pushing he does in the post on both ends.

Yeah, plenty of folk are saying Jokic plays too physical and yet most teams say the best way to play Jokic is physical because he'll lose his cool. If you get to watch every game, Jokic often ends up with scratches and bruises, especially on his arms. It's fairly normal for him. It reminds me of the days of Shaq, especially when he first came into the league. Being so much stronger than most people they play against, the refs tend to not call fouls against them simply because they don't respond to "normal shoves". Then again, Jokic also flops around like a rubber man so much, the refs often don't call the fouls against him (my opinion).

Not sure what the future holds for Jokic's style of play but players, teams, coaches, refs all tend to adjust to "unusual" players. It'll be interesting to see what happens next year.

It does seem like Jokic fouls a lot more than are called and gets calls in his favor that are soft proportionately. In this game there was an example of Kanter posting Jokic and Jokic is pushing and grabbing at him, no call. Then Jokic goes at Kanter and Kanter jumps straight up to contest and a foul is called. Could you claim that both circumstances were reffed appropriately? Absolutely. But it doesn't look reasonable just from the contact disparity.

I think the other side of it is Lillard is our star player and he doesn't really get much ref respect. He gets maybe 2 soft calls a game, but usually after 5-10 drives where he is held, pushed, and knocked to the ground with no call. It's just awkward how it is reffed where sometimes they let everything go and other times you blow on the guy and he gets a foul. I also think if an opposing team's defensive strategy is to trap or play hard defense on Lillard all game that logically that would amount to more fouls. More physicality and intensity should translate to more fouls. But it often seems like the refs let the additional contact slide and it puts POR at a significant disadvantage. It's one reason Nurkic was so valuable, he could initiate the offense and is big enough that he isn't disturbed by the contact in the same way... much like how Jokic plays but not as skilled.

I don't love the way the games are reffed but I still think these are two good teams and whoever wins deserves that. I also don't think the Nuggets series has been any less fair than the OKC series in terms of reffing. It's more that the Nuggets have a better matchup advantage by having their best player as their center and POR's playing a one shouldered Kanter. To his credit, Kanter has been phenomenal all things considered.