Greatest Blazers ever: Vote for #9

Post #1 » by **Moonbeam** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:46 am

Maurice Lucas was voted in as the 8th greatest Blazer in a close one. Here is the list so far.

Sabonis seems to be the favorite for the 9th spot, but lots of different players received votes in the last poll.

How to participate:

1. Vote among the polled players for the player you feel has had the best career as a Blazer.

2. Nominate an unlisted player to join the pool of players eligible to be voted in the next thread.

3. Feel free to argue your case for the players you are voting for and nominating, but do not use this as a platform to belittle the opinions of others.

You are welcome to participate in any and all of these ways. Above all else, have fun!

Project guidelines and links:

Spoiler:

d-train · Post #2 » by **d-train** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:39 am

CJ is the best player left. Pippen and Buck are the only others that I would consider. Pippen isn't even on the list.

A lot of respect given to Lillard for our playoff success this year. We wouldn't have won one single series without CJ. Sabonis was never better than our 3rd best player as a Blazer. Thompson was our best player on a very mediocre team. Cliffy was never better than our 2nd best player on a fairly mediocre team. Hollins was a key player on the championship team, but he also inexplicably isn't on the list.

I nominate Pippen.

Edit: You could also count Cliffy as our 5th best player on our 2nd best team. Problem is that team was only 4 deep of great or very good players.

PDX MM · Post #3 » by **PDX MM** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:23 am

Went with Buck and I nominate Pippen as well.

d-train · Post #4 » by **d-train** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:30 am

PDX MM wrote:Went with Buck and I nominate Pippen as well.

Thank you

Norm2953 · Post #5 » by **Norm2953** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:49 am

Time for Sabas but if Kersey or perhaps Cliff Robinson is chosen, that's fine but Sabas had 6 solid seasons
in Portland battling a prime Shaq on those good Laker teams in the 90's.

I'd like to nominate Calvin Natt who had 5 solid seasons in Portland who again was a part of the two
worst trades in team history.

ImABlazerFan · Post #6 » by **ImABlazerFan** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:34 pm

I voted for Buck. I nominate Damon Stoudamire.

JasonStern · Post #7 » by **JasonStern** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:59 pm

Kevin Duckworth
7 seasons, 13.6ppg/6.3rpg/0.9apg average, 18.1ppg/8.0rpg/0.8apg peak, 1989 all-star, 1991 all-star, 1988 most improved player

Jerome Kersey
11 seasons, 12.1ppg/6.1rpg/2.1apg average, 19.2ppg/8.3rpg/3.1apg peak

CJ McCollum
6 seasons, 17.8ppg/3.1rpg/2.9apg average, 23.0ppg/3.6rpg/3.6apg peak, 2016 most improved player

Jim Paxson
9 seasons, 16.0ppg/3.2apg/2.3rpg average, 21.7ppg/2.9apg/2.1rpg peak, 1983 all-star, 1984 all-star

Geoff Petrie
6 seasons, 21.8ppg/2.8rpg/4.6apg average, 24.9ppg/3.5rpg/4.4apg peak, 1971 rookie of the year, 1971 all-star, 1973 all-star

Cliff Robinson
8 seasons, 16.2ppg/5.2rpg/2.1apg average, 21.3ppg/5.6rpg/2.6apg peak, 1994 all-star, 1993 sixth man of the year

Arvydas Sabonis
7 seasons, 12.0ppg/7.3rpg/2.1apg average, 16.0ppg/10.0rpg/3.0apg peak

Mychal Thompson
7 seasons, 16.7ppg/8.9rpg/3.4apg average, 20.8ppg/11.7rpg/4.0apg peak

Kiki Vandeweghe
5 seasons, 23.5ppg/2.9rpg/2.2apg average, 26.9ppg/3.2rpg/2.8apg peak

Buck Williams
7 seasons, 10.2ppg/8.7rpg/1.1apg average, 13.6ppg/9.8rpg/1.4apg peak

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Sabonis is running away with this, and he's easily the most likeable Blazer on the list, but others put up better stats, won more awards, played longer, had better peak seasons, etc.

I nominate Zach Randolph. sure, he was a headcase during his Blazers tenure, but he was still good for 20/10 and the best player on some pretty bad teams.

Post #8 » by **Moonbeam** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:03 am

JasonStern wrote:Kevin Duckworth
7 seasons, 13.6ppg/6.3rpg/0.9apg average, 18.1ppg/8.0rpg/0.8apg peak, 1989 all-star, 1991 all-star, 1988 most improved player

Jerome Kersey
11 seasons, 12.1ppg/6.1rpg/2.1apg average, 19.2ppg/8.3rpg/3.1apg peak

CJ McCollum
6 seasons, 17.8ppg/3.1rpg/2.9apg average, 23.0ppg/3.6rpg/3.6apg peak, 2016 most improved player

Jim Paxson
9 seasons, 16.0ppg/3.2apg/2.3rpg average, 21.7ppg/2.9apg/2.1rpg peak, 1983 all-star, 1984 all-star

Geoff Petrie
6 seasons, 21.8ppg/2.8rpg/4.6apg average, 24.9ppg/3.5rpg/4.4apg peak, 1971 rookie of the year, 1971 all-star, 1973 all-star

Cliff Robinson
8 seasons, 16.2ppg/5.2rpg/2.1apg average, 21.3ppg/5.6rpg/2.6apg peak, 1994 all-star, 1993 sixth man of the year

Arvydas Sabonis
7 seasons, 12.0ppg/7.3rpg/2.1apg average, 16.0ppg/10.0rpg/3.0apg peak

Mychal Thompson
7 seasons, 16.7ppg/8.9rpg/3.4apg average, 20.8ppg/11.7rpg/4.0apg peak

Kiki Vandeweghe
5 seasons, 23.5ppg/2.9rpg/2.2apg average, 26.9ppg/3.2rpg/2.8apg peak

Buck Williams
7 seasons, 10.2ppg/8.7rpg/1.1apg average, 13.6ppg/9.8rpg/1.4apg peak

----

Sabonis is running away with this, and he's easily the most likeable Blazer on the list, but others put up better stats, won more awards, played longer, had better peak seasons, etc.

I nominate Zach Randolph. sure, he was a headcase during his Blazers tenure, but he was still good for 20/10 and the best player on some pretty bad teams.

I think Sabonis brought more value than his counting stats suggest. +/- stats are really high on him, and box score advanced metrics are, too.

Here is the combined regular season and postseason win shares per 48 minutes of these guys with Portland:

Sabonis: 0.191
Vandeweghe: 0.162
Williams: 0.134
Kersey: 0.130
Paxson: 0.129
Robinson: 0.104
McCollum: 0.103
Thompason: 0.101
Duckworth: 0.075
Petrie: 0.075

I know you're not big on Win Shares, but this is a notable gap. In fact, Sabonis has a higher WS/48 than any of our top 8. I don't think it should be the end all/be all of the discussion, but watching the team, Sabonis felt like such an important hub for Portland. I can see why he was getting votes as high as #4 as easily as I can see why he would be a fringe top 15 player for others.

JasonStern · Post #9 » by **JasonStern** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:31 am

WS/48 is a stat, but it is no different than any other stat. It's valid in some situations, and flawed in others. WS/48 tends to heavily favor players on winning teams. Put Sabonis on a mid-2000s Blazers team, and that number drops significantly. Counter-point, look at PER. Z-Bo had a PER of 22.8 in his last season with Portland, and yet nobody would really believe he was one of the most efficient Blazers. Steve Blake lead the Blazers one season in WS/48, but the Blazers weren't exactly winning. Etc., etc.

Sabonis really is one of my favorite Blazers. But there is a pretty decent gap between how good Portland-era Sabonis was and how people remember him. Kind of a "greatest" Blazer versus "favorite" Blazer, if that makes any sense.

Regardless, we're well past the "household" Blazer names and stats (whichever you choose) should be included in the original posts at this point. Probably some combo of what I posted plus PER, WS/48, etc. I didn't post the stats to sway voters, but more because I am too young to remember half of those guys' careers and achievements.

Post #10 » by **Moonbeam** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:15 am

I’ll nominate Wicks again. He’s got 4 All-Star appearances, and none of the remaining Blazers had more than 1 whole with Portland.

Norm2953 · Post #11 » by **Norm2953** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:32 pm

With news of CJ's extension for another 3 years, I'll go on record as voting for him at #10 whenever the
next round begins

Post #12 » by **Moonbeam** » Thu Aug 1, 2019 7:23 am

Voting is closed! This one was another blowout, with ARVYDAS SABONIS getting 8 votes and no other players getting more than 2. Sabas hence is in as the 9th greatest Blazer!

SCOTTIE PIPPEN was the only player with more than one nomination this round, so he will join the pool of players to be voted in as the 10th best Blazer.

Thanks for your participation, everyone!