Zach Collins Out Indefinitely For Shoulder Surgery

Post #1 » by **DeBlazerRiddem** » Sun Nov 3, 2019 5:57 pm

https://www.nba.com/blazers/trail-blazers-forward-zach-collins-undergo-surgery-injured-left-shoulder

This is a big blow to our already thin front court. Anyone have any guesses how long after surgery until he returns? I am seeing from other shoulder injuries a recovery up to 6 months, which means we might see him toward the end of the season. However if we can limp our way to a playoff spot we might be better than our seed and a potential upset.

Olshey had put a lot on Zach's shoulders this year without much PF depth. This probably increases our chance of a trade, but I wonder if we prefer something small for depth or as part of a bigger trade? I still think Gallo would be a good fit at a reasonable price, especially if we can snag Noel as well, and our 2020 pick probably just got a bit more valuable in trying to make that happen.

Goldbum · Post #2 » by **Goldbum** » Sun Nov 3, 2019 6:30 pm

Carmelo

Norm2953 · Post #3 » by **Norm2953** » Sun Nov 3, 2019 6:43 pm

If Portland is playing more or less .500 ball and Nurk's return is February-March what will be the point
of a trade for the price for a trade only goes up when one side is desperate for help.

Better to simply play things out and see if they survive with a returning Nurk/Whiteside to cover for
their front court weaknesses.

Wizenheimer · Post #4 » by **Wizenheimer** » Sun Nov 3, 2019 7:43 pm

the press release didn't specify what type of shoulder surgery, but chances are it's labrum sugery. From what I know and have read, that can be a 4-6 month timeline, with 5-6 months being the most realistic. 5 months put's it right around the start of the playoffs. So then, there's a chance this could be season ending, and the most optimistic might be sometime in March. Not good

even Whiteside and Gasol getting healthy doesn't do much for the Blazer PF position. Starting Tolliver is not a good situation but short of a significant trade, that might be what we'll be seeing for months...yuck

monopoman · Post #5 » by **monopoman** » Mon Nov 4, 2019 1:13 am

Hmm it seemed like it wasn't the biggest of deals when it happened. Collins himself downplayed the whole incident just after, I guess they are being overtly cautious with one of our better young players.

GEE · Post #6 » by **GEE** » Mon Nov 4, 2019 2:19 am

That was the feeling I got too Mono... like it was no big deal. I'm no doctor, but if there was this chance of him missing several months, or god forbid the rest of the season, I'm kinda pissed they just "popped it back in", all shade-tree mechanic style. I know they said they'd give a time line after the surgery, so I guess I'll be just hoping for the best, but with Nurkic's recovery a constant mystery to me, I'm not very optimistic.

monopoman · Post #7 » by **monopoman** » Mon Nov 4, 2019 2:23 am

GEE wrote:That was the feeling I got too Mono... like it was no big deal. I'm no doctor, but if there was this chance of him missing several months, or god forbid the rest of the season, I'm kinda pissed they just "popped it back in", all shade-tree mechanic style. I know they said they'd give a time line after the surgery, so I guess I'll be just hoping for the best, but with Nurkic's recovery a constant mystery to me, I'm not very optimistic.

I don't think popping it back in caused more damage if it did that was really **** stupid and that person should be potentially fired. I mean that would be like a trained paramedic off duty moving a man that is laying on the ground from a car accident when it could cause more damage. Obviously we are always playing a guessing game with situations like this we aren't doctors.

Wizenheimer · Post #8 » by **Wizenheimer** » Mon Nov 4, 2019 5:16 am

from what I understand, popping the shoulder back into place doesn't do further damage if done properly. In fact there's supposed to be a high risk of further tearing and damage the longer it's left dislocated. That Zach felt it went back into place cleanly doesn't mean there wasn't significant damage to the labrum.

Obviously there was some significant damage otherwise there wouldn't surgery. Hopefully, it's just the labrum and not also/or the rotator cuff

zzaj · Post #9 » by **zzaj** » Mon Nov 4, 2019 5:21 am

A huge blow to the team. But, that's what all teams have to go through at some point...

I'm still pissed that Olshey didn't prioritize a PF in the offseason. And no, an aging Gasol doesn't count. The Blazers need players that can play, not cheerleaders. It was silly for Olshey to go into the season talking championship, and yet only really have an inexperienced Zach and Tolliver as your whole PF rotation.

Of course Mario and Hood can play stretch PF, but they aren't going to be able to bang with real PFs.

Sinobas · Post #10 » by **Sinobas** » Mon Nov 4, 2019 2:18 pm

I feel like this season is pretty much down the toilet at this point.

Post #11 » by **DeBlazerRiddem** » Mon Nov 4, 2019 4:53 pm

zzaj wrote:A huge blow to the team. But, that's what all teams have to go through at some point...

I'm still pissed that Olshey didn't prioritize a PF in the offseason. And no, an aging Gasol doesn't count. The Blazers need players that can play, not cheerleaders. It was silly for Olshey to go into the season talking championship, and yet only really have an inexperienced Zach and Tolliver as your whole PF rotation.

Of course Mario and Hood can play stretch PF, but they aren't going to be able to bang with real PFs.

We have seen his MO from Olshey quite often where he refuses to put adequate depth behind the players he wants to feature. I am a bit happier with Mario and Skal than I thought I would be.

That said, if you have to skimp on a position (and all teams have to make compromises), PF is one of the better ones. For me, importance of depth goes something like PG>C>SF>SG>PF - mostly because a decent SF can cover SG or PF and PG and C are most important for offense and defense respectively. I guess SG vs PF depends on whether shooting or rebounding is more important to your team, so that could go either way. Also this is kind of an off the cuff remark, not a position I have put a ton of thought into.

Wizenheimer · Post #12 » by **Wizenheimer** » Mon Nov 4, 2019 5:37 pm

DeBlazerRiddem wrote:
zzaj wrote:A huge blow to the team. But, that's what all teams have to go through at some point...

I'm still pissed that Olshey didn't prioritize a PF in the offseason. And no, an aging Gasol doesn't count. The Blazers need players that can play, not cheerleaders. It was silly for Olshey to go into the season talking championship, and yet only really have an inexperienced Zach and Tolliver as your whole PF rotation.

Of course Mario and Hood can play stretch PF, but they aren't going to be able to bang with real PFs.

We have seen his MO from Olshey quite often where he refuses to put adequate depth behind the players he wants to feature. I am a bit happier with Mario and Skal than I thought I would be.

That said, if you have to skimp on a position (and all teams have to make compromises), PF is one of the better ones. For me, importance of depth goes something like PG>C>SF>SG>PF - mostly because a decent SF can cover SG or PF and PG and C are most important for offense and defense respectively. I guess SG vs PF depends on whether shooting or rebounding is more important to your team, so that could go either way. Also this is kind of an off the cuff remark, not a position I have put a ton of thought into.

last thing first: is it now a thing to say "I didn't think, much, before posting" because if it is, I'll have to have that as my sig. I mean, if I actually thought about it first, I'd have about 30 posts instead of 30,000

that out of the way, I kind of agree that traditional PF is kind of an optional position that a lot of teams don't opt for. But teams still need another player or two, besides a C, that can get rebounds and provide paint defense. A starter capable of perimeter defense, not being overwhelmed in the paint, and posting a rebound rate in the 12-15% range, and do so consistently

Portland had that last season in Aminu. He checked all those boxes and while his 3 point shooting left a lot to be desired, he was still better than what the Blazers have now. Zach can rim protect and be a defensive force, most ways, in the paint. But he has been poor at defending the perimeter and he's a poor rebounder for a 7 footer. Hezonja can get the rebounds, but his defense is very questionable at this point and he's a poor perimeter shooter. Tolliver might get back to shooting three's well, but all the other boxes will be unchecked, IMO, and he hasn't even hit a 10% rebounding rate for a decade

I still think Tolliver was a bad choice considering who was available, and especially considering Olshey settled for him only 3 days into the moratorium. Why the damn rush?

and I agree with both of you: Olshey has a bad habit of essentially forcing Stotts to have to play the guys he wants to feature, and do so in important roles. PF may or may not hurt the Blazers a lot this year, but I think having Simons and Hezonja as the only play-making options behind Dame and CJ is going to end up biting the Blazers hard sometime this season. Having Turner and Curry in those roles bit the Blazers a lot last season, and the Simons/Hezonja combo is worse

Case2012 · Post #13 » by **Case2012** » Tue Nov 5, 2019 5:28 am

Melooooooooooooooo

zzaj · Post #14 » by **zzaj** » Tue Nov 5, 2019 9:00 am

Wizenheimer wrote:
DeBlazerRiddem wrote:
zzaj wrote:A huge blow to the team. But, that's what all teams have to go through at some point...

I'm still pissed that Olshey didn't prioritize a PF in the offseason. And no, an aging Gasol doesn't count. The Blazers need players that can play, not cheerleaders. It was silly for Olshey to go into the season talking championship, and yet only really have an inexperienced Zach and Tolliver as your whole PF rotation.

Of course Mario and Hood can play stretch PF, but they aren't going to be able to bang with real PFs.

We have seen his MO from Olshey quite often where he refuses to put adequate depth behind the players he wants to feature. I am a bit happier with Mario and Skal than I thought I would be.

That said, if you have to skimp on a position (and all teams have to make compromises), PF is one of the better ones. For me, importance of depth goes something like PG>C>SF>SG>PF - mostly because a decent SF can cover SG or PF and PG and C are most important for offense and defense respectively. I guess SG vs PF depends on whether shooting or rebounding is more important to your team, so that could go either way. Also this is kind of an off the cuff remark, not a position I have put a ton of thought into.

last thing first: is it now a thing to say "I didn't think, much, before posting" because if it is, I'll have to have that as my sig. I mean, if I actually thought about it first, I'd have about 30 posts instead of 30,000

that out of the way, I kind of agree that traditional PF is kind of an optional position that a lot of teams don't opt for. But teams still need another player or two, besides a C, that can get rebounds and provide paint defense. A starter capable of perimeter defense, not being overwhelmed in the paint, and posting a rebound rate in the 12-15% range, and do so consistently

Portland had that last season in Aminu. He checked all those boxes and while his 3 point shooting left a lot to be desired, he was still better than what the Blazers have now. Zach can rim protect and be a defensive force, most ways, in the paint. But he has been poor at defending the perimeter and he's a poor rebounder for a 7 footer. Hezonja can get the rebounds, but his defense is very questionable at this point and he's a poor perimeter shooter. Tolliver might get back to shooting three's well, but all the other boxes will be unchecked, IMO, and he hasn't even hit a 10% rebounding rate for a decade

I still think Tolliver was a bad choice considering who was available, and especially considering Olshey settled for him only 3 days into the moratorium. Why the damn rush?

and I agree with both of you: Olshey has a bad habit of essentially forcing Stotts to have to play the guys he wants to feature, and do so in important roles. PF may or may not hurt the Blazers a lot this year, but I think having Simons and Hezonja as the only play-making options behind Dame and CJ is going to end up biting the Blazers hard sometime this season. Having Turner and Curry in those roles bit the Blazers a lot last season, and the Simons/Hezonja combo is worse

Olshey was having to tiptoe a lot of financial lines because of his past mistakes. That being said, IMO both the Gasol and Tolliver signings were pretty unfortunate. There were better options than those two. Sure, Gasol might get healthy and give the Blazers 4/4/1.5 in a quarter of play...but right now there is no timetable for his return and he had his surgery over 6 months ago.

I guess we'll see if he'll be ready for a playoff push, but at that point hopefully Nurkic is back as well. So now the Blazers will have Whiteside, Nurkic, Gasol...all firmly Centers, none of which will be able to play PF effectively...

Matt800 · Post #15 » by **Matt800** » Tue Nov 5, 2019 9:01 pm

https://www.nba.com/blazers/news/2019/11/5/zach-collins-undergoes-successful-shoulder-surgery

Zach Collins underwent successful surgery today to repair his left labrum

Collins will begin a treatment and rehabilitation process and will be re-evaluated in approximately four months.

Fitz303 · Post #16 » by **Fitz303** » Tue Nov 5, 2019 9:21 pm

Well, this is awful news. Most of the season gone. Not sure I can handle Tolliver starting 65 more games

Shem · Post #17 » by **Shem** » Tue Nov 5, 2019 10:20 pm

Read on Twitter

Matt800 · Post #18 » by **Matt800** » Tue Nov 5, 2019 11:06 pm

Fitz303 wrote:Well, this is awful news. Most of the season gone. Not sure I can handle Tolliver starting 65 more games

Yeah Tolliver either needs to be really good from 3 or he isn't worth it. Right now he's really bad from 3 making him not worth it.
I know people talk about a trade but I'm just not sure what Portland can trade and still have a functioning roster with their injuries.

Maybe Bazemore, Little, 2 1sts for Gallinari.

Blazinaway · Post #19 » by **Blazinaway** » Tue Nov 5, 2019 11:27 pm

Matt800 wrote:
Fitz303 wrote:Well, this is awful news. Most of the season gone. Not sure I can handle Tolliver starting 65 more games

Yeah Tolliver either needs to be really good from 3 or he isn't worth it. Right now he's really bad from 3 making him not worth it.
I know people talk about a trade but I'm just not sure what Portland can trade and still have a functioning roster with their injuries.

Maybe Bazemore, Little, 2 1sts for Gallinari.

Wait, you want to trade Baze, Little AND 2 1sts for Gallanari? That is a massive overpay for 1 yr of an injury prone player. I like Gallo
on this team but not at thta price, Baze and a lotto protected 1st is plenty but I am not sure I even want to do that because I am thinking this season is pretty much doomed with no playoffs

Matt800 · Post #20 » by **Matt800** » Tue Nov 5, 2019 11:54 pm

Blazinaway wrote:
Matt800 wrote:
Fitz303 wrote:Well, this is awful news. Most of the season gone. Not sure I can handle Tolliver starting 65 more games

Yeah Tolliver either needs to be really good from 3 or he isn't worth it. Right now he's really bad from 3 making him not worth it.
I know people talk about a trade but I'm just not sure what Portland can trade and still have a functioning roster with their injuries.

Maybe Bazemore, Little, 2 1sts for Gallinari.

Wait, you want to trade Baze, Little AND 2 1sts for Gallanari? That is a massive overpay for 1 yr of an injury prone player. I like Gallo
on this team but not at thta price, Baze and a lotto protected 1st is plenty but I am not sure I even want to do that because I am thinking this season is pretty much doomed with no playoffs

I don't know his value, but if your idea of Baze and a 1st is all it takes I would do that.

I think this season is redeemable. Especially because Whiteside has not had a chance to get in shape or get a rhythm for himself or with the team. He's been going from injury to injury since training camp. If he can stay healthy then things should look better. But someone better than Tolliver replacing his role would be helpful as well.