2019-20 Tank Thread

[JasonStern]

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[SalemStoner]

This is definitely our weakest roster in a few years. The injury to Collins has exposed our utter lack of a legitimate SF. Without Collins we’re playing an all nba PG, a quality but small starter at Sg, a quality SG but undersized at SF, a bench SF/PF at PF and the most empty stats guy in the league at C. The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of throwing in the towel for a season as Collins and Nurk get healthy and our cap situation improves without Whiteside and Bazemore on the books. It’s still early to really do that, but if we keep winning at this pace, then it’s a legitimate conversation.

[Masterfully]

“Championship or bust.”
~ CJ McCollum


I guess it’s a bust.

[GEE]

One injury with ZC, and a Tank Thread appears. This is ridiculous to me. Portland has never been a team that has tanked, even when it would have been wise to do so years ago. Also, Lillard is in his prime, so just start Skal, the obvious backup to Zach, instead of hitting the panic button and shuffling everybody out of position, playing 3-4 guards at the same time, as a result. Just dumb coaching is the biggest problem we have right now. Small-ball sucks!

[d-train]

Small ball is a good way to go when our bigs aren't as good as the other teams bigs and our small players are better. Also, small ball works IF you have small players that are good team defenders. Small ball needs 5 smart defenders rotating or switching in perfect synchronization. One missed assignment breaks the entire defense. Small ball usually has an inherit advantage in transition.

I believe our ability to play good small ball takes a hit with the loss of Collins. But, the loss of Collins also dishes a blow to our best big lineups as well. IMO, the biggest impediment to successful small ball for the Blazers is offense. Hood, Bazemore, Mario, Simons, and Tolliver are magnitudes better playmakers than Aminu, Harkless, Turner, Curry, and Layman. However, no matter how much we improve our secondary playmaking, our primary playmakers suck bad. We just don't have the passing and ball movement to make small ball work like it does for Nuggets, Rockets, and Warriors. I think we can add Clippers to that list also.

[d-train]

I should make a correction to the above. Our playmakers Lillard, CJ, and Simons are great scorers. They are great at making plays for themself. They are not good at getting teammates involved.

[Norm2953]

I always thought this season as setup by NO was all about getting ready for next summer. Where NO
made his mistake was signing CJ to a new deal but let's say the team is under .500 in January (there
is a website dedicate to tanking) we're set up to reset the roster with Dame/CJ, Nurk, Simons and
if the team struggles, has an opportunity to develop Little.

The team has a decision to make with Collins for his injury makes it unlikely Portland or Zach's agent
would agree to any extension. That makes him a RFA in 2021-22. Team moving forward with Dame/CJ
making up towards 80% of their cap, really needs more rookie, cost controlled contracts on their roster
which makes all the talk of another $30 Million/yr player added to the roster nuts.

[Roy The Natural]

I always thought this season as setup by NO was all about getting ready for next summer. Where NO
made his mistake was signing CJ to a new deal but let's say the team is under .500 in January (there
is a website dedicate to tanking) we're set up to reset the roster with Dame/CJ, Nurk, Simons and
if the team struggles, has an opportunity to develop Little.

The team has a decision to make with Collins for his injury makes it unlikely Portland or Zach's agent
would agree to any extension. That makes him a RFA in 2021-22. Team moving forward with Dame/CJ
making up towards 80% of their cap, really needs more rookie, cost controlled contracts on their roster
which makes all the talk of another $30 Million/yr player added to the roster nuts.

Blazers will just wait and match Collins. CJ may very well be gone by next deadline anyways to make room for Simons. Also I think you're exaggerating. Isn't it technically impossible for CJ and Lillard to make more than 65% of the Blazers cap? Supermax is 35%. Regular max is 30%. I don't even think CJ got the regular max did he?

[plyrically]

Wtf lol this thread is embarrassing

[d-train]

Wtf lol this thread is embarrassing

Dumb ideas is what we talk about here.

[DusterBuster]

As I said in the summer and preseason, this years squad always felt like a team that was either going to be awesome or probably ish the bed. I didn't see a whole lot of middle ground with this crew, and so far they seem to be proving me right.

I think the team stumbling out of the gate was the most realistic scenario considering the major overhaul this roster got. Even teams with tons of stars thrown together quickly can have trouble gelling right away, so this level of sloppy play is no real surprise. The injuries however are another story. Losing Collins so early and to such a long-term injury was a pretty bad blow to this team. Throw into that Whiteside and Hood having nagging off-and-on injuries and Pau taking awhile to get back on the court and it's just a recipe for nothing good.

That said, it's still early November. The season just crossed over into the double digits of games played. Everyone should really take a CBD Gummy or something and relax until at least like December or early Jan. At that point we'll really know what this team is going to be or do for the season. They've come back from rough starts before, so I'm not counting them out this year. But on the other hand, if the team has a kinda crap season.... am I the only one not that worried about it? The team is still in a good spot flexibility-wise for a fast retool - especially so if they get a lottery pick. They can look to package the pick with some EC's and young guys, or if the pick looks like it's gonna be high enough and the trade market is a bit light, use the pick on a player with some good potential that can fill some holes.

[Wizenheimer]

first of all, nobody should be taking this thread seriously. Jason Stern posted it and he did so saying Portland should draft Sabrina Ionescu. Joke thread all the way

and for chrissakes, it's my job to go all the sky is falling....you guys are supposed to be even-keel

it's only 10 games in and Portland 'lost' half of last season's roster, and that's not counting Nurkic. Anybody not expecting them to struggle early, especially with a road-heavy schedule, was being unrealistic

CJ isn't going to continue to be one of the worst players in the league; he'll climb out of his slump. Players are going to learn about each other and the system. And there are probably only 5 teams clearly better right now, and several of those teams are on thin ice with injury histories to their best players, and another has the combustibility of Harden/Westbrook....that could implode as easily as explode. Meanwile, Simons is showing a lot of promise (which means he's going to get scouted and game-planned for)

there are plenty of warning flags though. Dame is being ground into the hardwood by playing way too many minutes with a too heavy burden. That absolutely needs to change. Nurkic might not be back till the all-star break and Zack may miss the season. Gasol hasn't even practiced yet and Hood has back spasms which can be chronic and derail a season. Hezonja and Tolliver aren't very good, and they were counted on for some quality depth. And, the team defense has taken a major dive over last season (predictably) while the offense has issues

maybe I'm misreading things but I think Portland will be a playoff team. They probably won't be a 3rd seed again or have HCA though

[d-train]

first of all, nobody should be taking this thread seriously. Jason Stern posted it and he did so saying Portland should draft Sabrina Ionescu. Joke thread all the way

Damn, Stern got me going again.

Hezonja and Tolliver aren't very good, and they were counted on for some quality depth.

Tolliver is playing good basketball and he is better than I thought he would be. I'm still trying to figure out what to think of Mario. I don't think he's a good shooter. This much I have decided. I'm trying to decide what I think of him on defense. Once I decide which side of the fence to sit on his defense, that will probably dictate what I think of him as a player.

[Village Idiot]

Tankathon haven't had to use this site for a while. On my favorites bar now.

Whiteside is the guy who's disappointed me most this season. Hustle is not even in his vocabulary. Sets horrible screens, doesn't roll, can't pop, takes rebounds from teammates to pad his stats, doesn't run back on d, takes forever to get the ball to a guard. I'd like to say I can't wait to trade him but honestly maybe would should just let him command the tank from the rear and let him expire.

There are a couple of silver linings on this dark cloud

1. Simons is getting a larger role and embracing it
2. Labissiere is a likeable player but should probably be a back-up PF and not a C
3. Little is getting some run. Looks like crap but hopefully this will accelerate his development or give clarity around his viability as an NBA player
4. Maybe wishful thinking but CJ McCollum is now moveable, but not until February.

[Sinobas]

We may be getting to the point, where it's not worth Damian putting another year of wear on his body. He may as well "sprain his pinky" and be out for the season.

[BlazersBroncos]

Sorta OT, but is there and doubt that this team would be better with Harkless and Meyers right now? I honestly think we would be significantly better. The defense that Hark brought was never fully appreciated, myself included. And Leonard spacing the floor is something I believe would really help this team right now. Screw rebounding lol

[Wizenheimer]

Sorta OT, but is there and doubt that this team would be better with Harkless and Meyers right now? I honestly think we would be significantly better. The defense that Hark brought was never fully appreciated, myself included. And Leonard spacing the floor is something I believe would really help this team right now. Screw rebounding lol

obviously, the defense of both Aminu and Harkless are missed a lot. Turner and Bazemore are about the same defensively. And while Collins is more of a rim protector than Aminu, he can't defend the perimeter as well as Aminu and the 4 position has to defend the perimeter a significant part of the time. It's also the case that Layman had some defensive ability. And even Meyers, when defending the paint had the mass to do a decent job sometimes. And a significan component of defense is defensive rebounding; Portland is clearly a worse rebounding team this year...Aminu > Zach/Tolliver, and Harkless > Hood

so yeah, it was always going to be the case that this team was worse defensively. But the theory was it would be better offensively, and that's where the major miscalculation looks to have happened. As you said, the Blazers miss the 3 point shooting of Meyers, but they also miss that of Curry. Those two combined to make 18% of Portland's three's last season and they did so at a 45% clip. So far, Simons/Tolliver/Hezonja have combined to take 29% of Portland's three's and they are shooting 32%. That's a horrible trade-off for Portland, especially considering that Olshey just about guaranteed this year's team was going to have better floor spacing. 32% shooting on more than a quarter of three's taken isn't going to stretch a defense, just the opposite

there's another area that's killing Portland offensively, and that's playmaking. Last season Portland averaged 23 assists a game which ranked 25th; they had a .544 assisted FG rate. This season, Portland is averaging 17 assists a game, ranking 30th; they have a .415 assisted FG rate. Last season, Dame accounted for 29% of Portland's assists; this season, it's 39%. Olshey's stubborn refusal to give Stotts decent play-making options is costing Portland. And the idea that somehow, Simons/Hezonja/Bazemore could plug into that role is obviously failing big time so far

one final offensive issue: last season, Portland led the NBA in offensive rebounding rate; this season, they are 19th

obviously, injuries have taken a toll. But Zach is not dynamic offensively; he might not even be a better 3 points shooter than Aminu. He's obviously missed though, and the fact that we're having to endure 40 minutes a game from Tolliver and Hezonja illustrates there was a major roster hole at PF behind Zach. Another miscalculation. Hood's back spasms aren't helping either, and that can be a chronic issue. (and Gasol might end up looking like the 2nd coming of Ezeli)

certainly, it's still very early and a hot streak can right the ship. But the roster issues and injuries might see Portland in a real deep hole before they can get any air in their lungs. The next 10 games are brutal:

Toronto Raptors
@ San Antonio Spurs
@ Houston Rockets
@ New Orleans Pelicans
@ Milwaukee Bucks
@ Cleveland Cavaliers
@ Chicago Bulls
Oklahoma City Thunder
Chicago Bulls
@ Los Angeles Clippers

that's especially considering that Portland's 4 wins have come against teams with a combined 15-25 record, and only 4 of the games they've played have been against teams with winning records. Portland is 4-7 and their strength of schedule has been the 22nd hardest....yikes!

say they go 3-7 over that stretch which seems possible considering where they are right now. That would put them at 7-14 and they'd have to go 43-18 the rest of the way just to hit 50 wins. And that's with Nurkic maybe not playing till February and Zach maybe missing till just before the playoffs

and underneath all of that is that Stotts is grinding Dame into the floor. He's averaging 38.5 minutes, which is the most since his rookie season, and we've seen before that at times, after the all-star breaks, he appears to be a bit worn down.

again, a little win streak can change the outlook, but right now the forecast is kind of gloomy

[d-train]

We may be getting to the point, where it's not worth Damian putting another year of wear on his body. He may as well "sprain his pinky" and be out for the season.

Did Paul Allen invent a stoppage of time machine a moment to late to save his own life?

[Case2012]

This should be a fire Olshey thread, not tanking thread.

[BlazersBroncos]

This should be a fire Olshey thread, not tanking thread.

I mean, what could he realistically done better?

Everyone was excited on the ET for Kent deal. Everyone was excited for the Harkless / Meyers for Whiteside deal. The Hood contract seemed like a steal. The vet min guys looked decent, and what can you expect for vet min.

We literally had no way to resign Kanter or Curry due to cap law.

We did the best with what we had. I thought Neil did a decent job getting out of his 2016 mess. It just doesn't look like enough in a stacked west.

Two vet min guys that were popular around here were Jeff Green and Noah Vonleh. I think we would be doing much better with them rather than Mario and Tolliver. Not to mention the ghost of Pau.