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Trade Thread

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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#281 » by DaVoiceMaster » Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:21 pm

Would you bring Harkless back on a smaller contract, potentially as a backup SF/PF?
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#282 » by Norm2953 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:41 am

The 2020 draft is not well regarded by the draft followers. I think NO (like a lot of GM's) would prefer a
trade that brings back a player from the 2017-18 draft years that isn't really needed where they are.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#283 » by BlazersBroncos » Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:53 pm

Would you bring Harkless back on a smaller contract, potentially as a backup SF/PF?


If we do a cap space swing and have only the Room MLE, I would offer it to him. Any cap plan would rely on releasing Ariza, and assuming Ariza continues to chase money over all we would need some sort of replacement. The Room MLE is something like 4-5M which seems good for Mo. Albeit he may actually get offers over that IMO.

Going off my idea to sign DeRozan, we could use the Room MLE on Harkless, TPE to get a big like Ed Davis, BAE for a PG and draft a PF with #14 and combo guard w/ our SRP. Or use #14 and Simons to target a PF. Maybe even Markkanen if he sours w/ CHI.

G - Damian Lillard (34) / BAE PG (14) / 2020 SRP
G - CJ McCollum (32) / Gary Trent Jr (16) / 2020 SRP
F - DeMar DeRozan (30) / Mo Harkless (18)
F - Zach Collins (8) / Lauir Markkanen (28) / Nassir Little (12)
C - Jusuf Nurkic (28) / Zach Collins (20)

Getting ahead of myself but that's a great squad. CJ and Lauri getting kickouts from DeRozan and Damian driving would be beautiful.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#284 » by Wizenheimer » Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:14 pm

Norm2953 wrote:The 2020 draft is not well regarded by the draft followers. I think NO (like a lot of GM's) would prefer a
trade that brings back a player from the 2017-18 draft years that isn't really needed where they are.


Zach is from the 2017 class and the issue with him is that he'll be getting a new contract after next season. And so will Trent. And the Blazers would be only 1 year removed from the luxury tax, assuming they don't pay tax next season. They won't want 3 guys being RFA free agents in the same summer. And Simons will be up the following summer

the best thing about adding a 2020 draftee is that Portland will get 4 years of rookie scale and won't have to worry about an extension till 2024. Olshey mismanaged Portland's finances big-time in 2016. The Blazers are still paying for that, and there was a 2016 flashback in CJ's bloated extension. That's having ripples effects stretch out years
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#285 » by Norm2953 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:48 pm

Speaking of the 2017 draft, imagine where this team would be if they had passed on Zach and drafted
the breakout player from that draft (Bam Adebayo)?

I remember the workouts from that draft and a lot of us wanted Portland to draft Adebayo prior to the
trade with Sacramento that yielded the pick that brought us Zach. The guy is big, mobile and agile
center with a great attitude and allowed them to sit Whiteside whom they (like us) hated his lazy
play.

I do think Portland will try to trade for someone in prior drafts for the 2020 draft is a weak draft that
is rich in PG prospects. It's not likely a team will give up a good prospect from the 2019 class after
just one season for the 14th pick in the 2020 draft. They will want someone on their rookie contract.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#286 » by zzaj » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:38 pm

Norm2953 wrote:Speaking of the 2017 draft, imagine where this team would be if they had passed on Zach and drafted
the breakout player from that draft (Bam Adebayo)?

I remember the workouts from that draft and a lot of us wanted Portland to draft Adebayo prior to the
trade with Sacramento that yielded the pick that brought us Zach. The guy is big, mobile and agile
center with a great attitude and allowed them to sit Whiteside whom they (like us) hated his lazy
play.

I do think Portland will try to trade for someone in prior drafts for the 2020 draft is a weak draft that
is rich in PG prospects. It's not likely a team will give up a good prospect from the 2019 class after
just one season for the 14th pick in the 2020 draft. They will want someone on their rookie contract.


Bam is a good, young, modern Center...but he's not that big for a C, at 6'9.75" in shoes and probably 245lbs.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#287 » by Brandon-Clyde » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:11 am

Why not consider trading up in the draft to get one of the top sf's in the draft? Our first and one of Little, Simons or Trent should move us up a fair bit(assuming we don't move up in the lottery)
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#288 » by zzaj » Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:08 am

Brandon-Clyde wrote:Why not consider trading up in the draft to get one of the top sf's in the draft? Our first and one of Little, Simons or Trent should move us up a fair bit(assuming we don't move up in the lottery)


Because there aren't really any 'can't miss' SFs projected to go high in this draft. The one I see most going high is the Israeli, Deni Avdija. He's projected anywhere from 3-15. I like him as a prospect, but he's a pretty big unknown because of the International game--not sure he'd be worth the package you mention.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#289 » by d-train » Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:28 am

Lillard's current status has him missing between 1-4 games, but it might be longer depending on the results of his reevaluation. Blazers pick is going to be squarely in the middle of the draft. I'm sure Olshey is going to explore the cost of moving up vs the chances of getting a better prospect with a higher pick.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#290 » by Norm2953 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:03 am

SF and C seem to be lacking in the 2020 draft..

Its not going to be easy to move up in a thin draft. Better to just draft someone who like Little will
make the team and offer up some depth where the team is lacking (PG?)
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#291 » by red_power » Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:19 pm

Speaking of a potential CJ trade.

I think the only option to ever being considered by blazers FO is something like CJ + Zach + Little + 2 FRP for Giannis and some vets.
Of course it could be a complete switch to the one-and-done run but this would perfectly solve our PF woes anyway :D

A deal centered around CJ and Embiid is also possible although it would be more difficult for Blazers to structure this one.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#292 » by Wizenheimer » Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:55 pm

zzaj wrote:
Norm2953 wrote:Speaking of the 2017 draft, imagine where this team would be if they had passed on Zach and drafted
the breakout player from that draft (Bam Adebayo)?

I remember the workouts from that draft and a lot of us wanted Portland to draft Adebayo prior to the
trade with Sacramento that yielded the pick that brought us Zach. The guy is big, mobile and agile
center with a great attitude and allowed them to sit Whiteside whom they (like us) hated his lazy
play.

I do think Portland will try to trade for someone in prior drafts for the 2020 draft is a weak draft that
is rich in PG prospects. It's not likely a team will give up a good prospect from the 2019 class after
just one season for the 14th pick in the 2020 draft. They will want someone on their rookie contract.


Bam is a good, young, modern Center...but he's not that big for a C, at 6'9.75" in shoes and probably 245lbs.


maybe, but Bam has been 'unleashed' this year playing as a PF with Meyers and Olynik. He's a lot better than Collins except 3 point shooting, and at 32% that's not exactly an advantage for Zach.

Portland could have come out of that draft with Bam and Kuzma; or Bam and Josh Hart; or John Collins and Jarret Allen/Og Anunoby and Kuzma/Hart. Instead they got Collins and Swanigan. I know a lot of people are high on the potential of Zach; maybe they're right. But to me he looks like an awkward kind of tweener big; not quick enough to play perimeter defense against all the stretch-4's and hybrid SF's teams are using; and not big or strong enough to defend the paint against a lot of C's
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#293 » by Norm2953 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:03 pm

Bam was responsible for Whiteside sitting on the bench in Miami. Using an NFL analogy, he looks like a dancing
bear which is a mobile big guy who is big, fast and agile and plays with passion which Hassan will never display
for any length of time.

Getting back to what to do this summer, we need to improve team speed and length irregardless of position.
Other than perhaps Little, we don't have an above the basket element on the roster. If we bring back Melo
and Ariza, much of our frontcourt is in our mid 30's. This team does not score a lot of easy baskets in either
transition or cuts to the basket. Think about the team needs that we all know. Identify the #1 need and
address it one way or another while Dame is an elite player.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#294 » by d-train » Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:39 am

Norm2953 wrote:Bam was responsible for Whiteside sitting on the bench in Miami. Using an NFL analogy, he looks like a dancing
bear which is a mobile big guy who is big, fast and agile and plays with passion which Hassan will never display
for any length of time.

Was Bam responsible for Hassan sitting or was Hassan responsible for Bam sitting? Whiteside played just as many MPG, started more games, and was in the Heat's most used 5-man, 4-man, 3-man, and 2-man combinations.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#295 » by zzaj » Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:26 am

Wizenheimer wrote:
zzaj wrote:
Norm2953 wrote:Speaking of the 2017 draft, imagine where this team would be if they had passed on Zach and drafted
the breakout player from that draft (Bam Adebayo)?

I remember the workouts from that draft and a lot of us wanted Portland to draft Adebayo prior to the
trade with Sacramento that yielded the pick that brought us Zach. The guy is big, mobile and agile
center with a great attitude and allowed them to sit Whiteside whom they (like us) hated his lazy
play.

I do think Portland will try to trade for someone in prior drafts for the 2020 draft is a weak draft that
is rich in PG prospects. It's not likely a team will give up a good prospect from the 2019 class after
just one season for the 14th pick in the 2020 draft. They will want someone on their rookie contract.


Bam is a good, young, modern Center...but he's not that big for a C, at 6'9.75" in shoes and probably 245lbs.


maybe, but Bam has been 'unleashed' this year playing as a PF with Meyers and Olynik. He's a lot better than Collins except 3 point shooting, and at 32% that's not exactly an advantage for Zach.

Portland could have come out of that draft with Bam and Kuzma; or Bam and Josh Hart; or John Collins and Jarret Allen/Og Anunoby and Kuzma/Hart. Instead they got Collins and Swanigan. I know a lot of people are high on the potential of Zach; maybe they're right. But to me he looks like an awkward kind of tweener big; not quick enough to play perimeter defense against all the stretch-4's and hybrid SF's teams are using; and not big or strong enough to defend the paint against a lot of C's


My point was about Bam's size for the C position. Bam isn't as big as the biggest centers in the NBA and will have some issues defending those players. As you point out, he's broken out this season in some part because he's been playing PF. I'm not trying to stick up for Zach in a comparison. Believe me, I'd trade Zach for Bam 10 times out of 10...it'd be crazy not to.

As for the 2017 draft. I liked Zach at that pick as a "safe" pick, but I also didn't believe he'd ever develop to be much more than a good role player--I still don't actually. I usually try and shy away from the hindsight "woulda shoulda" in drafts, because worse players could have been picked as easily as better players. Sure the Blazers could have picked Donovan Mitchell and Derrick White instead of Zach and Swanigan...but they could have picked DJ Wilson and Davon Reed just as easily.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#296 » by Wizenheimer » Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:04 pm

zzaj wrote:
Wizenheimer wrote:
zzaj wrote:
I usually try and shy away from the hindsight "woulda shoulda" in drafts, because worse players could have been picked as easily as better players. Sure the Blazers could have picked Donovan Mitchell and Derrick White instead of Zach and Swanigan...but they could have picked DJ Wilson and Davon Reed just as easily.


the problem with that is you and I are not being paid 3M a year along with having a full time staff including several scouts, all because they are supposed to get those calls right. I've been a remodeling contractor for several years, and I would have been out of business using the 'just-as-easily' excuse for failure. You're a musician, right?...."hey, it could have just as easily been A-sharp minor instead of B-flat major...don't blame my fingers"

obviously, evaluating basketball talent has a lot more variable at work than cabinet design or a blues refrain, but still, it's the GM's and scouts job to get things right. We know there will be some misses, but misses on lottery picks are killers. Not saying Zach is a miss, but at this point he sure doesn't look like a big hit either, especially compared to the potential cost of missed alternatives.

I think it's clear that Olshey gets fixated on certain players and once that happens, no amount of countervailing data will deflect him from that fixation. I think it's lead to bad decisions, and not just in the draft. We've seen it with Meyers and Olshey's stubborn refusal to accept that Meyers was not worth a lottery pick and not worth the contract Olshey insisted on giving to him. The same is true with CJ and now Portland is saddled with a bloated CJ extension that throttles flexibility now and over the next few years. We saw it with Crabbe and his stupid extension that has left a 7 year stain on Portland's salary cap. And we saw it with Olshey's strategy of leaving Stotts no alternatives but to heavily rely on Simons and Zach this year...and that has backfired big time. I'm dreading this summer when Olshey can triple down and give Zach an extension about triple his real value...

but maybe there has finally been some fiscal restraint imposed by JA and the Vulcans. That sure looks like the theme of the trade deadline
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#297 » by zzaj » Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:51 pm

Wizenheimer wrote:
zzaj wrote:
Wizenheimer wrote:


the problem with that is you and I are not being paid 3M a year along with having a full time staff including several scouts, all because they are supposed to get those calls right. I've been a remodeling contractor for several years, and I would have been out of business using the 'just-as-easily' excuse for failure. You're a musician, right?...."hey, it could have just as easily been A-sharp minor instead of B-flat major...don't blame my fingers"

obviously, evaluating basketball talent has a lot more variable at work than cabinet design or a blues refrain, but still, it's the GM's and scouts job to get things right. We know there will be some misses, but misses on lottery picks are killers. Not saying Zach is a miss, but at this point he sure doesn't look like a big hit either, especially compared to the potential cost of missed alternatives.

I think it's clear that Olshey gets fixated on certain players and once that happens, no amount of countervailing data will deflect him from that fixation. I think it's lead to bad decisions, and not just in the draft. We've seen it with Meyers and Olshey's stubborn refusal to accept that Meyers was not worth a lottery pick and not worth the contract Olshey insisted on giving to him. The same is true with CJ and now Portland is saddled with a bloated CJ extension that throttles flexibility now and over the next few years. We saw it with Crabbe and his stupid extension that has left a 7 year stain on Portland's salary cap. And we saw it with Olshey's strategy of leaving Stotts no alternatives but to heavily rely on Simons and Zach this year...and that has backfired big time. I'm dreading this summer when Olshey can triple down and give Zach an extension about triple his real value...

but maybe there has finally been some fiscal restraint imposed by JA and the Vulcans. That sure looks like the theme of the trade deadline


Of course, and believe me...I'm in no way sticking up for Olshey as some kind draft genius. In fact I think he and his staff are pretty middling to average at best. You, me and a handful of others have advocated for his dismissal a long time ago. Pretty much every pick of his that has panned out was generally agreed upon as a "safe" pick, by draft pundits...and I follow that stuff pretty closely. Of course, Lillard doesn't really count.

As we all know, every NBA team misses a lot more than they hit when it comes draft time...I think that points to the difficulty/near impossibility of that job. It's like being a professional gambler. As a contractor, somebody asks you to put in a floor and because you have experience and know-how, you get it right the first time. If it's not right, you go back and fix it, lose money and aren't hired again. That's pretty different than the NBA draft...there aren't any do overs. In music, if I play in A# minor instead of Bb major they pay me extra--because I'm a drummer :D

It is interesting to see the differences of PA and JA when it comes to the purse strings, and it does bring up the question of how much PA had to do with 2016 and the fallout from those mistakes. I have to wonder if the Blazers would be in a more flexible place fiscally if JA had been in control all along.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#298 » by Wizenheimer » Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:23 pm

zzaj wrote:It is interesting to see the differences of PA and JA when it comes to the purse strings, and it does bring up the question of how much PA had to do with 2016 and the fallout from those mistakes. I have to wonder if the Blazers would be in a more flexible place fiscally if JA had been in control all along.


that's something we really can't know. This season has certainly indicated that the upside of this current team is lower than what has been perceived for a while. Dame will be 30 in 5 months; CJ will be 29 in 7 months; Nurkic may have injury issues. And Dame and CJ are locked in for several seasons with salaries hogging over 60% of the salary cap. It might be a high level treadmill but it sure looks like Portland is on one, and it will be an expensive one, unless they simply gut the team's depth

but if you looked at what went down around the trade deadline coupled with things Olshey said, that might fit real well into a template of what an owner would do who was planning on selling the team. What happens next summer will tell us more

by the way, aren't all drummers just a little bit loony?
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#299 » by BlazersBroncos » Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:04 pm

To chime in, I think drafting is actually the one place where NO is clearly very good. Outside 2017, and the jury is still very much out on that year, he has been near perfect. Having the balls to use lotto picks on small school guards and his unreal R2 track record speak a lot to his abilities there. FA is where he really sucks, and may suck enough to make a good argument that he shouldn't keep his job. The number of times we were saved from ourselves by players backing out on big deals we tried to hand them is astonishing. Chandler, Kanter, Whiteside.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#300 » by zzaj » Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:52 pm

Wizenheimer wrote:...by the way, aren't all drummers just a little bit loony?


I can't speak for all drummers, but yes all drummers are just a little bit loony :wink:

...actually, ALL professional musicians nowadays have to be a little bit nuts. There is barely any 'industry' left now that nobody pays for music. I shoulda been a poet.

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