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Did NeO miss out....

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Re: Did NeO miss out.... 

Post#21 » by d-train » Thu Aug 6, 2020 6:54 pm

DaVoiceMaster wrote:
d-train wrote:Warren is empty stats. Look at his role. He is Pacers primary offensive player and has an absolute green light. On Blazers, he would NOT have the ball or get any shots. Warren wouldn't help the Blazers win a single game.


Wow!!! What a ridiculous statement.

What's ridiculous about it? Lebron would make us better because he brings a useful skill. We would take the ball out of Lillard's hands and put LeBron in charge of the team. We would take the greenlight away from Lillard and he would defer to LeBron. Our playmaking would be better and Lillard would become CJ#2.

What would we gain if we added Warren? He would attempt to replace Hood and Trent, except he would fail because he isn't as good at complementing Lillard . Warren is a slasher and is good at getting to the basket. He is a very good finisher around the basket. Warren may be better in a expanded role than old Melo, Hood, and Trent, but Blazers aren't Pacers. Pacers are running almost every play for Warren. Warren's game is setup by having those plays run for him. Blazers run no plays for anyone other than Lillard, Nurkic, or CJ. We don't have an expanded role to offer Warren. We are better off with Melo, Hood, Trent, and other players that add skills that complement Lillard. Blazers would be better off adding a defender who can score off the action created by Lillard, CJ, and Nurkic.
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Re: Did NeO miss out.... 

Post#22 » by d-train » Thu Aug 6, 2020 6:58 pm

JasonStern wrote:
d-train wrote:
Blazers20 wrote:Dillon Brooks is a gamer. I’m surprised how well he is doing.

Brooks is really good


I am a Ducks homer and I see nothing wrong with this.
I also see Bell as a better player than Swanigan, which doesn't seem like that much of a reach so let me have that.

But, I like Swanigan. I don't believe Swanigan will be back and I don't believe we will add Bell to the team either. Bell is certainly more physically talented than Swanigan. Bell is more talented than most NBA big players.
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Re: Did NeO miss out.... 

Post#23 » by JasonStern » Thu Aug 6, 2020 8:13 pm

d-train wrote:
JasonStern wrote:
d-train wrote:Brooks is really good


I am a Ducks homer and I see nothing wrong with this.
I also see Bell as a better player than Swanigan, which doesn't seem like that much of a reach so let me have that.

But, I like Swanigan. I don't believe Swanigan will be back and I don't believe we will add Bell to the team either. Bell is certainly more physically talented than Swanigan. Bell is more talented than most NBA big players.


Bell showed promise as a rookie playing spot minutes for the Warriors, which is more than Swanigan proved. But neither are likely be in the league next year. I admit that Bell is more one of those "liked the guy in college and let it skew my fan judgement" guys. But I'm not a scout or working for a team, so I don't see anything wrong with that.

Passing on Brooks is more of a disappointment as the Blazers brought him in for a workout and liked him enough to at least go through the lengthy full interview process. But the Blazers were weak at the 4 and had Turner and Crabbe at the 3. Tough to justify using a 1st round pick when you have that much cap space tied to to one position. /sigh
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Re: Did NeO miss out.... 

Post#24 » by BlazersBroncos » Thu Aug 6, 2020 9:21 pm

I just cant buy in on Brooks. He has talent, but he takes shots that are far above his talent level. He takes some MarShon Brooks level chucks.
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Re: Did NeO miss out.... 

Post#25 » by d-train » Thu Aug 6, 2020 9:28 pm

Brooks is aggressive in every regard. I will take a 'Brooks level' competitor anytime.
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Re: Did NeO miss out.... 

Post#26 » by Soulyss » Sat Aug 8, 2020 5:02 pm

Super severe overreaction to Warren on this board.. He's a chucker that offers little else.. He had a big game.. 50 pts... Wooo!

You know who else had 50 point games in the NBA:

Corey Brewer... Mo Williams... Brandon Jennings...
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Re: Did NeO miss out.... 

Post#27 » by Goldbum » Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:32 am

Warren is a fine player. He's ball dominate, high usage, and a finisher not a creator. Reminds me of former Pacer Danny Granger. Probably not as good but close.
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Re: Did NeO miss out.... 

Post#28 » by kumquat » Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:54 am

I don't think there were any threads about Neil missing out on TJ Warren the first couple of years of his career.
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Re: Did NeO miss out.... 

Post#29 » by Blazers20 » Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:39 am

I’d take Whitsitt back over NeO
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Re: Did NeO miss out.... 

Post#30 » by Blazers20 » Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:27 am

When Phoenix traded TJ Warren for cash considerations, why wasn’t NeO all over that?
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Re: Did NeO miss out.... 

Post#31 » by Brandon-Clyde » Mon Aug 24, 2020 6:17 am

Blazers20 wrote:When Phoenix traded TJ Warren for cash considerations, why wasn’t NeO all over that?


Do you not read responses. This was literally the third response in the thread

Brandon-Clyde wrote:Portland would have hade to trade a first to create to create a tpe big enough to take on Warren as Phoenix was looking for cap space and not a player because they wanted to sign Rubio IIRC. And a first might not have been enough because the only player Portland could have traded to create a big enough tpe would have been Evan Turner which would have been a sizable contract for any team to take on without sending back some salary. Now in hindsight a first + whatever else it took would have been a good deal but Warren wasn't that well thought of then.
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Re: Did NeO miss out.... 

Post#32 » by Blazers20 » Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:11 am

That’s exactly my point NeO wasn’t all over this. He just isn’t aggressive enough making these type of trades. Why wouldn’t you have created cap space for $10M or so million to get Warren. I don’t believe NeO wanted to make that effort to pull off such a trade. Just like when Denver was offering the 14th pick to get rid of Faried and again NeO didn’t bite or make an effort and that picked turned out to be MPJ but NeO did make an effort to get Zach Collins. Also why was no effort to get a player like Bol Bol?
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Re: Did NeO miss out.... 

Post#33 » by Village Idiot » Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:37 am

You guys are rough. Talk about accentuating the negative. Like any GM Olshey has made his share of mistakes but he has also done a lot of fantastic things:

1. Culture - The Trailblazers have one of the best cultures in the NBA
2. Diamonds in the rough - Having the balls to trust his staff and select small school guys like Lillard and CJ. Identifying Nurkic and developing him into a top 10 center. The Blazers scouts have also done a very good job of developing 2nd round wing players such as Barton, Trent, Crabbe and Layman who all overperformed relative to draft position.
3. Playoffs - we're not a treadmill team.

the negative

1. too in love with his guys - values continuity and reinforcing his biases over making gutsy moves which would give us a bigger shot at winning a championship. A lot of great players have been available in trade and you would think we could have been in the running for both PG13 and Kawhi, just to name the two most glaring examples
2. play style - I get wanting to have to creators but why do both of them have to be PG sized? We aren't exactly innovators in terms of getting ahead of other teams tactically
3. not able to fill in the roster gaps well enough. Hezonja, etc? WTF?
When will we just change the name of 25 of the 30 teams to the Washington Generals?

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Re: Did NeO miss out.... 

Post#34 » by BlazersBroncos » Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:06 pm

We didnt have a TPE to get him. PHX moved him to save money. There was never the opportunity.

Also, the whole league dropped the ball on Bol. I will never understand how he slipped to 44, but he did. Holding a GM to unrealistic expectations when the entire league fell in line on underrating Bol is nuts. And I say that as a guy who would gladly let NO walk.
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Re: Did NeO miss out.... 

Post#35 » by Epicurus » Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:53 pm

When folks talk about being a WCF last season and lowlier this season, often ignored is that this is not remotely the same squad. I think only 6 players were at the beginning of the year from that squad. At that Trent wasn't on the playoff squad, SKal got traded away during this season, Collins and Hood were hurt early for the season, ANt was very marginal both then and now. The 7 who disappeared this season from the WCF squad were replaced with inferior contributors. Only Lillard and McC were contributors then and now. My point: NO deconstructed a winner (maybe for valid reasons, maybe not) and replaced the losses with wishful thinking. Ouch!
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Re: Did NeO miss out.... 

Post#36 » by JasonStern » Mon Aug 24, 2020 6:59 pm

BlazersBroncos wrote:I just cant buy in on Brooks. He has talent, but he takes shots that are far above his talent level. He takes some MarShon Brooks level chucks.


...which would be far more valuable right now that Caleb Swannigan. Nobody is saying he's an all-star or expecting that level of player from the 26th pick.


Epicurus wrote:When folks talk about being a WCF last season and lowlier this season, often ignored is that this is not remotely the same squad. I think only 6 players were at the beginning of the year from that squad. At that Trent wasn't on the playoff squad, SKal got traded away during this season, Collins and Hood were hurt early for the season, ANt was very marginal both then and now. The 7 who disappeared this season from the WCF squad were replaced with inferior contributors. Only Lillard and McC were contributors then and now. My point: NO deconstructed a winner (maybe for valid reasons, maybe not) and replaced the losses with wishful thinking. Ouch!


which has been discussed before. the lack of continuity was always going to hurt. FWIW I thought Olshey did a good job last off-season given the limitations he had, but then the reason why he was so hamstrung was because of the moves he made in 2016.

at the time, you pick Nassir Little - the consensus BPA in the draft who also fills a position of need.

you lose Aminu because of salary cap issues from 2016.

you have the tax MLE and free agents without bird rights in Hood, Kanter, and Curry. at the time, you pick Rodney Hood over Enes Kanter, especially given the team's offense and how much harder finding shooters is than bigs. you pick Hood over Curry because a healthy Hood is simply the better player.

so now you need a big until Nurkić returns and your cap exceptions are fairly limited. Whiteside is on the trading block. so you trade Harkless and fan-punching-bag Leonard.

Turner was solid as a ball handler and a defender, but never fit Stotts shot-heavy offense. Bazemore is available in a straight swap. That made total sense at the time.

Trading Layman made no sense, but if he wanted out (per reports), he wanted out.

Tolliver and Hezonja were not ideal signings, but they were minimum contracts that weren't supposed to play meaningful minutes. Both were supposedly decent shooters. you also sign Pau Gasol to fill that "10 minute a night" role should anyone get injured in hopes that he can provide some veteran leadership.

Dame
CJ/Simons/Trent
Hood/Bazemore/Hezonja/Little
Collins/Labissière/Tolliver
Nurkić*/Whiteside/Gasol

Not the best roster, but solid given what he had to work with, which again still falls on him. there was no way to see during the off-season that Gasol would immediately retire, Hood and Collins would get injured, Bazemore would never fit in, Simons would sophomore slump, Labissière would get injured, Hezonja and Tolliver would consistently play meaningful minutes, etc.

Signing Carmelo mid-season salvaged the playoffs. Bazemore, Tolliver, and future 2nds for Ariza, Gabriel, and Swanigan 2 - Electric Boogaloo was a solid move, especially if Gabriel pans out - which he has shown flashes of being able to do. Ariza would be a huge help right now. Not that Portland could have predicted a global pandemic, postponed season with a bubble play-in, etc.

Will be interesting to see what he comes up with this off-season as Dame and CJ continue to take up more of the cap.
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Re: Did NeO miss out.... 

Post#37 » by Epicurus » Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:38 pm

Seems we agree that the team in the playoffs now is not close to the team that was in the WCF last season.
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Re: Did NeO miss out.... 

Post#38 » by Blazers20 » Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:56 am

Was last year a fluke? Did the Blazers get lucky to get to the WCF?
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Re: Did NeO miss out.... 

Post#39 » by Epicurus » Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:14 am

Blazers20 wrote:Was last year a fluke? Did the Blazers get lucky to get to the WCF?
I think that seven of the contributors to the WCF were shipped elsewhere, with replacements not as useful.
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Re: Did NeO miss out.... 

Post#40 » by Blazers20 » Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:21 am

Sorry I don’t buy that, seems like excuses.

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