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Time to fire Olshey and Stotts?

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Re: Time to fire Olshey and Stotts? 

Post#161 » by d-train » Sat Apr 3, 2021 11:39 pm

bigzy wrote:Wanting to fire a coach 10 games over.500 at this point in the season is crazy by itself. Wanting to do it when he has played without CJ and Nurk for numerous games and without Zach Collins all year should get you banned from ever talking about the NBA.

The way it works with some people is Stotts gets all the blame for what Blazers don't do well, and none of the credit for what Blazers do well. Same goes for Olshey. The relevant fact is neither man is in any danger of losing their job.
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Re: Time to fire Olshey and Stotts? 

Post#162 » by GEE » Sun Apr 4, 2021 1:43 am

d-train wrote:
bigzy wrote:Wanting to fire a coach 10 games over.500 at this point in the season is crazy by itself. Wanting to do it when he has played without CJ and Nurk for numerous games and without Zach Collins all year should get you banned from ever talking about the NBA.

The way it works with some people is Stotts gets all the blame for what Blazers don't do well, and none of the credit for what Blazers do well. Same goes for Olshey. The relevant fact is neither man is in any danger of losing their job.


What about Dame in this regard. He seems to always get only praise, and no blame for the shortcomings.

As for Stotts, He sucks! Just look at the defensive rating, and his inability to fix the problem. No need to look any further, but if you need more, there's the long-proven inability to make any kind of in game adjustment (especially in the playoffs). And my favorite... Small-ball, and still thinking it's gonna work somehow.

I think Olshey has lost control, as evidenced by this recent trade. I worry this was influenced largely by Dame, to benefit his pal CJ and to a lesser extent, his new buddy Melo. Just a hunch.
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Re: Time to fire Olshey and Stotts? 

Post#163 » by bigzy » Sun Apr 4, 2021 3:04 pm

A coach who has won over 500 games in the NBA and has his current team at 30-19 sucks.... interesting opinion. Who exactly would you like to hire that would do a better job? Maybe you could just take over since it is such an easy job. Probably would have won 3-4 championships by now I would guess.
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Re: Time to fire Olshey and Stotts? 

Post#164 » by DaVoiceMaster » Sun Apr 4, 2021 6:48 pm

GEE wrote:
d-train wrote:
bigzy wrote:Wanting to fire a coach 10 games over.500 at this point in the season is crazy by itself. Wanting to do it when he has played without CJ and Nurk for numerous games and without Zach Collins all year should get you banned from ever talking about the NBA.

The way it works with some people is Stotts gets all the blame for what Blazers don't do well, and none of the credit for what Blazers do well. Same goes for Olshey. The relevant fact is neither man is in any danger of losing their job.


What about Dame in this regard. He seems to always get only praise, and no blame for the shortcomings.

As for Stotts, He sucks! Just look at the defensive rating, and his inability to fix the problem. No need to look any further, but if you need more, there's the long-proven inability to make any kind of in game adjustment (especially in the playoffs). And my favorite... Small-ball, and still thinking it's gonna work somehow.

I think Olshey has lost control, as evidenced by this recent trade. I worry this was influenced largely by Dame, to benefit his pal CJ and to a lesser extent, his new buddy Melo. Just a hunch.


What? Conspiracy theory because the Blazers made a trade that benefits the team, particularly come playoff time? C'mon Gee, this is a little extreme. I'm not a fan of Olshey whatsoever and I have my doubts about Stotts as much as anyone else, but this is a bit ridiculous.
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Re: Time to fire Olshey and Stotts? 

Post#165 » by GEE » Sun Apr 4, 2021 11:42 pm

I'm just saying that trading GTJ and Hood (as I said in the NP trade thread) gets rid of some big distractions about players' futures with this team. I think Olshey may have wanted to stick with the roster he had built, but making the trade, thinned out the heard and got rid of any distraction there may have been in regards to players current roles. CJ can now relax as a result, knowing Gary will no longer be talked about as a good replacement if CJ were traded.

I also feel come the end of this season, Olshey would have made a choice between Hood or Jones Jr, moving one or the other. Again, I think these are factors in deciding to do this trade. It clears up any sharing of playing time issues the players may have had, or concerns over ever moving CJ. Thins the heard and if Powell is indeed an upgrade, and as long as he doesn't require the starting SF spot, I'm all for it. Just don't play small.

Dame / CJ / Powell / (Simons)
Nurkic / Kanter / (Giles)
ROCO / Melo / Jones Jr / (Little)(RHJ)
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Re: Time to fire Olshey and Stotts? 

Post#166 » by d-train » Mon Apr 5, 2021 5:23 pm

GEE wrote:I'm just saying that trading GTJ and Hood (as I said in the NP trade thread) gets rid of some big distractions about players' futures with this team. I think Olshey may have wanted to stick with the roster he had built, but making the trade, thinned out the heard and got rid of any distraction there may have been in regards to players current roles. CJ can now relax as a result, knowing Gary will no longer be talked about as a good replacement if CJ were traded.

I also feel come the end of this season, Olshey would have made a choice between Hood or Jones Jr, moving one or the other. Again, I think these are factors in deciding to do this trade. It clears up any sharing of playing time issues the players may have had, or concerns over ever moving CJ. Thins the heard and if Powell is indeed an upgrade, and as long as he doesn't require the starting SF spot, I'm all for it. Just don't play small.

Dame / CJ / Powell / (Simons)
Nurkic / Kanter / (Giles)
ROCO / Melo / Jones Jr / (Little)(RHJ)

The only logical argument you are making is you don't like our small lineup, you don't like small ball. I understand that. A conventional lineup is a better goal if it's possible. The best lineup is what yields the best chance to win. Our lineup was small before the Powell trade and it's still small. It's a better small lineup because Powell brings more skills to make it work than either GTJ or Hood brought.

Small is what we have. Small is how many teams go these days. I would rather go small against AD with RoCo, than match size with a stiff that can barely play. I would rather go small against LeBron, than match size with a player that can't do anything that beats LeBron. Today's coaches are less concerned with convention and more concerned with having a game plan that has a chance to win. And, the NBA's new rules and how rules are enforced favor smaller lineups.

Your theory about CJ and Olshey is just strange. Powell is closer to filling CJ's shoes than GTJ, so Powell will likely fuel more dumb CJ trade ideas. I suspect Olshey doesn't care.

Trading Hood doesn't hurt or help at removing PT issues. Little and Simons aren't going to be happy with their roles and PT untill they are starters. And, with Powell in the lineup, there is less of a role and PT for Little and Simons.
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Re: Time to fire Olshey and Stotts? 

Post#167 » by Norm2953 » Mon Apr 5, 2021 6:22 pm

The problem with going with a small ball lineup is that no NBA team has ever won a championship with
such a lineup. The Suns have been trying various versions of small ball teams since the 80's and while those
teams always have great regular season records, they are not built to beat a quality opponent in a 7 game
series when your opponent is able to concentrate and lock down on their opponent.

It will be telling what Stotts does when Portland has to match up with their first round opponent. It will
either be Denver (AG, MPJ , Jokic), LAC (PG, Kwahi, Morris, Ibaka) or perhaps the Lakers with Lebron,
AD and Drummond. Portland's 3 guard lineup means Powell would have to matchup with a 6'9 player no
matter who is the opponent. If he goes to a balanced lineup, Powell goes to the bench where Toronto
fans will tell us he's nowhere near as effective. It would be fascinating to see if Stotts has the guts to
send CJ to the bench for that would allow Portland to match up and would give Portland a lot of scoring
off the bench
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Re: Time to fire Olshey and Stotts? 

Post#168 » by d-train » Mon Apr 5, 2021 7:37 pm

Norm2953 wrote:The problem with going with a small ball lineup is that no NBA team has ever won a championship with
such a lineup. The Suns have been trying various versions of small ball teams since the 80's and while those
teams always have great regular season records, they are not built to beat a quality opponent in a 7 game
series when your opponent is able to concentrate and lock down on their opponent.

It will be telling what Stotts does when Portland has to match up with their first round opponent. It will
either be Denver (AG, MPJ , Jokic), LAC (PG, Kwahi, Morris, Ibaka) or perhaps the Lakers with Lebron,
AD and Drummond. Portland's 3 guard lineup means Powell would have to matchup with a 6'9 player no
matter who is the opponent. If he goes to a balanced lineup, Powell goes to the bench where Toronto
fans will tell us he's nowhere near as effective. It would be fascinating to see if Stotts has the guts to
send CJ to the bench for that would allow Portland to match up and would give Portland a lot of scoring
off the bench

The only thing that beats a quality opponent in a 7 game series is a better quality opponent, bigger doesn't make it better. I recall small ball Suns sweeping Spurs in the 2010 playoffs. Spurs became a more quality opponent, not by finding a better prototypical big man to help Duncan, which was their weakness. They added the best players they could find, which was small ball players like Kawhi Leonard. Other than Duncan, Spurs won championships playing smaller than conventional lineups. After Robinson, they never found a good big to pair with Duncan. The great early 90's Blazers team was 3 SF's, 1 PF, and 1 PG. Duckworth started, but that team got better when Duckworth went out and Cliffy entered the game.

It will be interesting to see what happens in playoffs because Blazers got better. We had almost no chance against Lakers, Nuggets, and Clippers. Now, we are better, but we aren't going to be favorites against anyone. It will be interesting to see how a 6' 9" player fairs against a quicker smaller player that can shoot and drive to the basket and finish. Let's see what a good bigger player can do about a good quicker and skilled smaller player.

I wouldn't wait around for Stotts to go braindead and bench CJ.
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Re: Time to fire Olshey and Stotts? 

Post#169 » by mojomarc » Thu Apr 8, 2021 2:45 pm

Norm2953 wrote:The problem with going with a small ball lineup is that no NBA team has ever won a championship with
such a lineup. The Suns have been trying various versions of small ball teams since the 80's and while those
teams always have great regular season records, they are not built to beat a quality opponent in a 7 game
series when your opponent is able to concentrate and lock down on their opponent.

It will be telling what Stotts does when Portland has to match up with their first round opponent. It will
either be Denver (AG, MPJ , Jokic), LAC (PG, Kwahi, Morris, Ibaka) or perhaps the Lakers with Lebron,
AD and Drummond. Portland's 3 guard lineup means Powell would have to matchup with a 6'9 player no
matter who is the opponent. If he goes to a balanced lineup, Powell goes to the bench where Toronto
fans will tell us he's nowhere near as effective. It would be fascinating to see if Stotts has the guts to
send CJ to the bench for that would allow Portland to match up and would give Portland a lot of scoring
off the bench


The 80s Detroit Pistons' offense revolved around Isaiah Thomas and Joe Dumars, and Mark Aguirre, with Vinnie Johnson coming off the bench. They were big at PF and C with Laimbeer and Mahorn, but neither of those guys was really central to their offense. They had length, but it was pretty much defensive length that came off the bench in Sally and Rodman. The major difference was that all of those guys could play serious defense, and the fact that the game was played much more in the short and mid-range meant that the slow footspeed of their bigs wasn't an issue like it is with a more open halfcourt today. Can you imagine Bill Laimbeer charging out at an open three point shooter? The ball would be already inbounded by the time he got there. But that said, that was probably the last dynastic team that was built around the offense coming so much from players that were small for their positions.
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Re: Time to fire Olshey and Stotts? 

Post#170 » by d-train » Thu Apr 8, 2021 5:36 pm

Isiah, Dumars, Vinnie, and Aguirre are smaller than our players. Rodman was the 3rd best player and he was about the same size as RoCo. Rodman was smaller than Buck Williams, who was a small PF during that period.

Isiah, Dumars, Rodman, Vinnie, and Aguirre would be a better team today because physicality has been eliminated from the game. In today's game, these guys (except Rodman) would have fully developed 3 point shots. They would be a scoring powerhouse.

The main attribute that this Pistons team had that still applies today is the ability to get into the paint and break opponents defense. Three point shooting alone doesn't win. To win, you have to force the defense into rotations that creates breakdowns. This is why replacing GTJ with Powell is so much better for us. Plus, Powell gives us much improved defense among our top 3 offensive players.
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Re: Time to fire Olshey and Stotts? 

Post#171 » by Village Idiot » Fri Apr 9, 2021 7:49 am

It's become very evident that this group has run its course. Barring a lot of bad injury luck from other teams it's hard to see this team getting out of the first round let alone contend for anything.

The whole three guard line-up and lack of defensive aptitude is just killing us. The sad part is we have the personnel to be a better team than we are but I don't see CJ's ego tackling becoming 6th man and when neither he nor Dame give a crap about playing defense in the regular season it sends a really bad signal.

If I were Stotts I'd move CJ to the 6th man role and bring Nassir Little into the starting line-up. What he lacks in skill he makes up for in effort and the starting line-up needs a spark.

I'd also put Melo and Kanter on a very short leash and demand effort on D or not playing time. I'd give Giles a lot more run too.

In any case it's good to hear that the ownership group is running out of patience. We could do a lot worse than Olshey and Stotts but its time for new blood. Thankfully we have a good core that we can build upon. We only need some minor changes (CJ for a better fit, for example) not a total raze and rebuild.
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Re: Time to fire Olshey and Stotts? 

Post#172 » by HoopsFanAZ » Fri Apr 9, 2021 8:01 pm

Village Idiot wrote:It's become very evident that this group has run its course. Barring a lot of bad injury luck from other teams it's hard to see this team getting out of the first round let alone contend for anything.

The whole three guard line-up and lack of defensive aptitude is just killing us. The sad part is we have the personnel to be a better team than we are but I don't see CJ's ego tackling becoming 6th man and when neither he nor Dame give a crap about playing defense in the regular season it sends a really bad signal.
...
In any case it's good to hear that the ownership group is running out of patience. We could do a lot worse than Olshey and Stotts but its time for new blood. Thankfully we have a good core that we can build upon. We only need some minor changes (CJ for a better fit, for example) not a total raze and rebuild.


Stotts remaining? Only if the assistants bring defensive chops and the mandate from above is fix the D or gone.

(Mostly) agree with all above ... and the recent comments by Lillard and Powell suggest there's a growing awareness that the great chemistry among players and coaches will give way to making the changes to WIN when the Blazers either miss the playoffs and/or fail to make the 2nd round. The greatest likelihood of the "needed" changes being made is by making the play-in for teams 7-10 and losing right away. Badly. [Not even making the 10 would be done deal.] Lottery pick kept and Lillard more likely to embrace having CJ and others traded.

[My Preferences: Powell stays. Simons traded for a backup PG -- Pritchard. CJ out in a SF/PF trade package -- what it takes -- Tobias Harris, Kris Middleton ... a costly package for Sabonis and Indiana ... even a S&T for DeRozan so Pop and CJ can do their wine thing. Not making moves to WIN is not an option and CJ isn't the fit for Portland and Lillard. Compensating for the weaknesses has been shown to not work well or for long.]
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Re: Time to fire Olshey and Stotts? 

Post#173 » by Village Idiot » Fri Apr 9, 2021 8:58 pm

HoopsFanAZ wrote:
Village Idiot wrote:It's become very evident that this group has run its course. Barring a lot of bad injury luck from other teams it's hard to see this team getting out of the first round let alone contend for anything.

The whole three guard line-up and lack of defensive aptitude is just killing us. The sad part is we have the personnel to be a better team than we are but I don't see CJ's ego tackling becoming 6th man and when neither he nor Dame give a crap about playing defense in the regular season it sends a really bad signal.
...
In any case it's good to hear that the ownership group is running out of patience. We could do a lot worse than Olshey and Stotts but its time for new blood. Thankfully we have a good core that we can build upon. We only need some minor changes (CJ for a better fit, for example) not a total raze and rebuild.


Stotts remaining? Only if the assistants bring defensive chops and the mandate from above is fix the D or gone.

(Mostly) agree with all above ... and the recent comments by Lillard and Powell suggest there's a growing awareness that the great chemistry among players and coaches will give way to making the changes to WIN when the Blazers either miss the playoffs and/or fail to make the 2nd round. The greatest likelihood of the "needed" changes being made is by making the play-in for teams 7-10 and losing right away. Badly. [Not even making the 10 would be done deal.] Lottery pick kept and Lillard more likely to embrace having CJ and others traded.

[My Preferences: Powell stays. Simons traded for a backup PG -- Pritchard. CJ out in a SF/PF trade package -- what it takes -- Tobias Harris, Kris Middleton ... a costly package for Sabonis and Indiana ... even a S&T for DeRozan so Pop and CJ can do their wine thing. Not making moves to WIN is not an option and CJ isn't the fit for Portland and Lillard. Compensating for the weaknesses has been shown to not work well or for long.]
By all means Stotts has to go too. Agree with your preferences except DeRozen. I really don't want to see anymore small ball.
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Re: Time to fire Olshey and Stotts? 

Post#174 » by taufblazers33 » Fri Apr 9, 2021 9:20 pm

hey guys - coming from an outside perspective (I live in Chicago) but an avid Blazers fan past several years and have watched all games. Root cause of the struggles from my perspective is Stotts. He lacks the skillset to develop a defensive identity. Also - his offense is too predictable and there's limited plays run. It's more of 'sets' where opposing teams are prepared to defend.
Also - Melo does not bring any value that can contribute to winning.
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Re: Time to fire Olshey and Stotts? 

Post#175 » by Epicurus » Fri Apr 9, 2021 9:23 pm

Can you clarify what you mean by small ball. I assume it means Covington (or worse Anthony at center) with four shooters. If it means the three guard offense we've been seeing, then the presence of Nurk or Kanter renders it not small ball. Regarding this three guard lineup, the three guards with Nurk and Covington is +18.4 per 100 possessions for the 69 minutes its been used and with Kanter not Nurk it is 11.7 per 100 possessions for it 47 minutes together. Sometimes one-time impressions while rooting as a fan produces some shaky conclusions.
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Re: Time to fire Olshey and Stotts? 

Post#176 » by Epicurus » Fri Apr 9, 2021 9:27 pm

taufblazers33 wrote:hey guys - coming from an outside perspective (I live in Chicago) but an avid Blazers fan past several years and have watched all games. Root cause of the struggles from my perspective is Stotts. He lacks the skillset to develop a defensive identity. Also - his offense is too predictable and there's limited plays run. It's more of 'sets' where opposing teams are prepared to defend.
Also - Melo does not bring any value that can contribute to winning.
The, if the offense is so predictable, the opposing coaches must be morons for allowing the Blazers to be the 5th rated offense (and a perennial top 10 at minimum).

I would address "lacks the skillset to develop a defensive identity, if I was confident that those words have actual meaning.
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Re: Time to fire Olshey and Stotts? 

Post#177 » by Wizenheimer » Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:30 am

Olshey received a lifetime achievement award today!

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Re: Time to fire Olshey and Stotts? 

Post#178 » by Norm2953 » Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:06 am

Village Idiot wrote:It's become very evident that this group has run its course. Barring a lot of bad injury luck from other teams it's hard to see this team getting out of the first round let alone contend for anything.

The whole three guard line-up and lack of defensive aptitude is just killing us. The sad part is we have the personnel to be a better team than we are but I don't see CJ's ego tackling becoming 6th man and when neither he nor Dame give a crap about playing defense in the regular season it sends a really bad signal.

If I were Stotts I'd move CJ to the 6th man role and bring Nassir Little into the starting line-up. What he lacks in skill he makes up for in effort and the starting line-up needs a spark.

I'd also put Melo and Kanter on a very short leash and demand effort on D or not playing time. I'd give Giles a lot more run too.

In any case it's good to hear that the ownership group is running out of patience. We could do a lot worse than Olshey and Stotts but its time for new blood. Thankfully we have a good core that we can build upon. We only need some minor changes (CJ for a better fit, for example) not a total raze and rebuild.


I'm skeptical Little is ready for a starting lineup promotion but agree with CJ going to a sixth man role. Team really needs to
play their best defensive lineup in order to have any chance winning a playoff round. I do wonder if CJ will wave his contract
extension in managements face and refuse a sixth man role.
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Re: Time to fire Olshey and Stotts? 

Post#179 » by GEE » Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:44 am

d-train wrote:
GEE wrote:I'm just saying that trading GTJ and Hood (as I said in the NP trade thread) gets rid of some big distractions about players' futures with this team. I think Olshey may have wanted to stick with the roster he had built, but making the trade, thinned out the heard and got rid of any distraction there may have been in regards to players current roles. CJ can now relax as a result, knowing Gary will no longer be talked about as a good replacement if CJ were traded.

I also feel come the end of this season, Olshey would have made a choice between Hood or Jones Jr, moving one or the other. Again, I think these are factors in deciding to do this trade. It clears up any sharing of playing time issues the players may have had, or concerns over ever moving CJ. Thins the heard and if Powell is indeed an upgrade, and as long as he doesn't require the starting SF spot, I'm all for it. Just don't play small.

Dame / CJ / Powell / (Simons)
Nurkic / Kanter / (Giles)
ROCO / Melo / Jones Jr / (Little)(RHJ)

The only logical argument you are making is you don't like our small lineup, you don't like small ball. I understand that. A conventional lineup is a better goal if it's possible. The best lineup is what yields the best chance to win. Our lineup was small before the Powell trade and it's still small. It's a better small lineup because Powell brings more skills to make it work than either GTJ or Hood brought.

Small is what we have. Small is how many teams go these days. I would rather go small against AD with RoCo, than match size with a stiff that can barely play. I would rather go small against LeBron, than match size with a player that can't do anything that beats LeBron. Today's coaches are less concerned with convention and more concerned with having a game plan that has a chance to win. And, the NBA's new rules and how rules are enforced favor smaller lineups.

Your theory about CJ and Olshey is just strange. Powell is closer to filling CJ's shoes than GTJ, so Powell will likely fuel more dumb CJ trade ideas. I suspect Olshey doesn't care.

Trading Hood doesn't hurt or help at removing PT issues. Little and Simons aren't going to be happy with their roles and PT untill they are starters. And, with Powell in the lineup, there is less of a role and PT for Little and Simons.


No... Actually I mentioned the word "small" only once, though it was the last word. The point you are missing, is that I simply believe there was more to this trade, than just Olshey acquiring Powell for GTJ and Hood as a mere talent upgrade, as you are suggesting. Mainly... it makes the stars of our team more comfortable, and never considered Little or Simons. My suggesting that Dame, CJ and Melo may have had some sway in this trade decision seems perfectly "logical" to me. Also, why is it a conspiracy to simply see how happy Melo is with this trade.

You clearly are in favor of a small line-up, with your above comments, and seem fine with Powell starting at SF. I have just been clear, and unpopular, with my thinking it's a recipe for disaster. I have embraced all likelihood that Dame and CJ aren't going anywhere so we will always be a small-ball lineup, so I've tried to look for the best combinations of players we have, while still running a balanced rotation ON BOTH SIDES OF THE FLOOR. The line-up I show is evidence of that, and the unused formula for winning.

GTJ is a freakin pest on D, and Hood at 6'8, was at least 6'8 with a deadly 3 pointer. They were two players, with Duke-smarts, that anchored our squad while Nurkic and CJ were out, and had borderline starting ability on this team or any other in the league. Watch Toronto keep Hood and GTJ, and possibly start them next year, while we get a rental of Powell. Trade value can be debated, but that really wasn't my point.

Simply... Hood being gone makes Melo happy. GTJ being gone makes CJ happy. Dame has the Power over anyone else, including Olshey. And, Powell must be challenged by Stotts to come off the bench, or the trade won't work, as evidenced by the 1st quarter of the Clippers game... total annihilation.
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Re: Time to fire Olshey and Stotts? 

Post#180 » by Epicurus » Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:09 pm

To repeat myself: Regarding this three guard lineup, the three guards with Nurk and Covington is +18.4 per 100 possessions for the 69 minutes its been used and with Kanter not Nurk it is 11.7 per 100 possessions for it 47 minutes together. Sometimes one-time impressions while rooting as a fan produces some shaky conclusions.
Yes, that lineup failed in the time period you mentioned, but it is cherry picking to only use that performance to make your case.

For what it is worth, I prefer lineups with tall robust centers, a nearly as tall robust PF with a mean streak, a minimum 6'7 small forward who can score and handle the ball well, a shooting guard who shoots well but can also defend, say about '6'5" or more, and a scoring pt guard of any size who can dish and speed up a game. I don't give a damn what folks say about the game is changed, that lineup would do well. As you can easily note, the Blazers' lineups are far from my preference.

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