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CJ McCollum's value

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Re: CJ McCollum's value 

Post#21 » by HoopsFanAZ » Mon Sep 7, 2020 7:48 pm

Matt800 wrote:
whatchaknow wrote:I would think the only gettable Star this off-season is Beal. I personally believe he’s an upgrade over cj and would part with Collins to get him. Would Anybody else entertain that kind of move?


I would do a straight trade or maybe cj + a protected pick. But I don't see why washington would do it. But I dont think Beal is enough of an upgrade or even a position of need to trade more. There's Trent Jr, Hood, and possibly Simons who can fit that 2 guard spot. And trading Collins without getting a good 4 or 5 back would weaken portland's already weak front court depth.

I love that there's some talk (steven a smith) about how if Giannis came to portland he could win a championship. But what would that even take? Giannis demanding a trade to portland and then portland making a trade around CJ, Collins, and picks? Doesn't seem likely, but a Nurkic and Giannis front court would be fun to watch.


I won’t snort or make mock of a Giannis TP. I’ve TPed the same to friends with the expected, rational reactions. I even posted a new thread on this site, yesterday, before quickly deleting it. I figured someone else could make a better argument ...

CJ + Collins + Simons + Little + 2 picks = Giannis + George Hill (mid 30s and cut salary by MIL). 1 year of Giannis and convince him to stay with Dame and Nurkic. Go big on it before Milwaukee loses leverage in approaching free agency and public demands limit options to Golden State, Miami and the like.
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Re: CJ McCollum's value 

Post#22 » by d-train » Mon Sep 7, 2020 8:00 pm

monopoman wrote:I think CJ would function much better as the main man on a team, he has his best games usually when Dame is sitting. For some reason CJ's game drops a bit when Lillard plays, but meanwhile Lillards game is fine when CJ is on the court.

Now CJ may not be good enough to be the main man on a team trying to win I just think that is where he would be at his best.

I don't. One of the best attributes of CJ is his willingness to use his talent to make a more talented player better. Normally, a player as talented as CJ would be the best player on a lousy team. I believe CJ's best games are the games we win because of the sacrifices CJ makes. CJ is a team player and he does what is best for his team.
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Re: CJ McCollum's value 

Post#23 » by d-train » Mon Sep 7, 2020 8:05 pm

whatchaknow wrote:I would think the only gettable Star this off-season is Beal. I personally believe he’s an upgrade over cj and would part with Collins to get him. Would Anybody else entertain that kind of move?

CJ by himself is a better player than Beal. I wouldn't trade Collins for Beal. Collins does things we need to be a better team. Beal would add nothing to our team, whether to replace CJ or add him to CJ, Beal doesn't improve our team. CJ is better than Beal and we need Collins.
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Re: CJ McCollum's value 

Post#24 » by d-train » Mon Sep 7, 2020 8:12 pm

Village Idiot wrote:CJ McCollum is unquestionably the most controversial player on the Trailblazers. I imagine that I speak for others here in stating that I have very mixed emotions on CJ and whether he should continue to be a Blazer.


There is nothing controversial about CJ. It doesn't make CJ controversial because he generates a lot of stupid trade ideas among Blazer fans. He is our most underrated player.

My favorite trade idea is, let's trade CJ for a better player. OK, sure, let's trade anyone for a better player. We only need to find another team that wants to trade a better player for a worse player, should be easy. The specifics are even funnier, when you get the actual trades suggested by fans. Blazer fans don't want to trade CJ for a better player, that is rarely ever suggested.

The actual best way for the Blazers to get better is for Lillard, CJ, and Nurkic to get better at involving other players in the offense and for our team defense to improve. Nurkic actually does a decent job, but since he is one of the 3 players that run our offense, he has to take some blame for an offense that sometimes doesn't find the open man.
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Re: CJ McCollum's value 

Post#25 » by Matt800 » Mon Sep 7, 2020 8:13 pm

HoopsFanAZ wrote:
Matt800 wrote:
whatchaknow wrote:I would think the only gettable Star this off-season is Beal. I personally believe he’s an upgrade over cj and would part with Collins to get him. Would Anybody else entertain that kind of move?


I would do a straight trade or maybe cj + a protected pick. But I don't see why washington would do it. But I dont think Beal is enough of an upgrade or even a position of need to trade more. There's Trent Jr, Hood, and possibly Simons who can fit that 2 guard spot. And trading Collins without getting a good 4 or 5 back would weaken portland's already weak front court depth.

I love that there's some talk (steven a smith) about how if Giannis came to portland he could win a championship. But what would that even take? Giannis demanding a trade to portland and then portland making a trade around CJ, Collins, and picks? Doesn't seem likely, but a Nurkic and Giannis front court would be fun to watch.


I won’t snort or make mock of a Giannis TP. I’ve TPed the same to friends with the expected, rational reactions. I even posted a new thread on this site, yesterday, before quickly deleting it. I figured someone else could make a better argument ...

CJ + Collins + Simons + Little + 2 picks = Giannis + George Hill (mid 30s and cut salary by MIL). 1 year of Giannis and convince him to stay with Dame and Nurkic. Go big on it before Milwaukee loses leverage in approaching free agency and public demands limit options to Golden State, Miami and the like.


I think with crazy things like that, anything is possible if it's what Giannis wants. But we'd need to see Giannis publicly express wanting to leave MIL, then several other steps before it'd be remotely realistic.

I'd probably try and do more picks over trading the young players. But yeah I imagine it would look something like what you wrote if it were to happen. Portland could also try and get R Lopez back if they don't have another big lined up through FA.
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Re: CJ McCollum's value 

Post#26 » by BlazersBroncos » Tue Sep 8, 2020 2:37 pm

CJ + Collins + Simons + Little + 2 picks = Giannis + George Hill (mid 30s and cut salary by MIL). 1 year of Giannis and convince him to stay with Dame and Nurkic. Go big on it before Milwaukee loses leverage in approaching free agency and public demands limit options to Golden State, Miami and the like.


I dont think this is close for Giannis. I would include up to 4, potentially 5, 1st round picks to get him.

He is not a killer, so playing with Dame would absilutley bring the best out of him. Putting him next to a closer like Lillard damb near guarantees us a chip.

Realistically, it would take CJ and Nurkic. Something like CJ, Nurkic, Simons, 4 1st round picks for Giannis. Honestly Zach is probably a better C fit next to him anyways. He needs the lane clear to max his talent.

G - Damian Lillard / Shabazz Napier (Vet Min) / Grant Riller (46)
G - Gary Trent Jr / Bryn Forbes (Vet Min) / Grant Riller (46)
F - Rodney Hood / Mo Harkless (MLE) / Nassir Little
F - Giannis Antetokounmpo / Carmelo Anthony (BAE) / Weynen Gabriel
C - Zach Collins / Hassan Whiteside (1/10M)

We would have lots of holes to fill as the above shows, but its a superstars league. I still dont know if that package even gets MIL on the phone.
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Re: CJ McCollum's value 

Post#27 » by DaVoiceMaster » Tue Sep 8, 2020 5:09 pm

What did the Spurs get for Leonard besides DeRozan? Similar situation. the star player has 1 year left. Toronto took the gamble and won a championship. Is it worth the same gamble for the Blazers... 1 year with Giannis and then he bolts?
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Re: CJ McCollum's value 

Post#28 » by BlazersBroncos » Tue Sep 8, 2020 6:14 pm

What did the Spurs get for Leonard besides DeRozan? Similar situation. the star player has 1 year left. Toronto took the gamble and won a championship. Is it worth the same gamble for the Blazers... 1 year with Giannis and then he bolts?


Leonard was more complicated. He basically sat out a year, everyone knew 99% he would be a rental as well.

It will cost monumentally more to get Giannis. A Kawai like heist isnt happening again anytime soon in this league.

I am confident that Lillard could get Giannis to stay, he isnt as weird as Leonard.
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Re: CJ McCollum's value 

Post#29 » by DeBlazerRiddem » Tue Sep 8, 2020 6:36 pm

BlazersBroncos wrote:I am confident that Lillard could get Giannis to stay, he isnt as weird as Leonard.


That was my thought too, but also why I am doubtful that Milwaukee trades him. You never know what will happen but everything I've heard about Giannis sounds like he is very humble, down to earth, and the type of guy to happily make a career with one franchise.


So I would trade everything to pair him with Lillard.
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Re: CJ McCollum's value 

Post#30 » by BlazersBroncos » Tue Sep 8, 2020 7:27 pm

That was my thought too, but also why I am doubtful that Milwaukee trades him. You never know what will happen but everything I've heard about Giannis sounds like he is very humble, down to earth, and the type of guy to happily make a career with one franchise.


So I would trade everything to pair him with Lillard.


Exactly, he is the type of guy that, to me, would immediatley bond with Dame.

If I am Milwaukee, I dont take any trade for him and do my best to retool this summer. If he walks, he walks. But you dont move a talent of his caliber.

I think he ends up back in MIL or in Miami. The 'alphaness' of Butler and Dame would be absolutley huge for him to be around and feed off IMO. He isnt a natural born killer like those two guys.
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Re: CJ McCollum's value 

Post#31 » by Village Idiot » Tue Sep 8, 2020 8:04 pm

BlazersBroncos wrote:
CJ + Collins + Simons + Little + 2 picks = Giannis + George Hill (mid 30s and cut salary by MIL). 1 year of Giannis and convince him to stay with Dame and Nurkic. Go big on it before Milwaukee loses leverage in approaching free agency and public demands limit options to Golden State, Miami and the like.


I dont think this is close for Giannis. I would include up to 4, potentially 5, 1st round picks to get him.

He is not a killer, so playing with Dame would absilutley bring the best out of him. Putting him next to a closer like Lillard damb near guarantees us a chip.

Realistically, it would take CJ and Nurkic. Something like CJ, Nurkic, Simons, 4 1st round picks for Giannis. Honestly Zach is probably a better C fit next to him anyways. He needs the lane clear to max his talent.

G - Damian Lillard / Shabazz Napier (Vet Min) / Grant Riller (46)
G - Gary Trent Jr / Bryn Forbes (Vet Min) / Grant Riller (46)
F - Rodney Hood / Mo Harkless (MLE) / Nassir Little
F - Giannis Antetokounmpo / Carmelo Anthony (BAE) / Weynen Gabriel
C - Zach Collins / Hassan Whiteside (1/10M)

We would have lots of holes to fill as the above shows, but its a superstars league. I still dont know if that package even gets MIL on the phone.
That is a really risky trade to make but I would take that risk. One modification would be to route Nurkic to Boston and Jaylen Brown to the Bucks. Nurk would be the perfect center for Stevens and with both Hayward and Smart the Celts would be able to fill that gap.

The more likely Bucks - Blazers deal would be something like McCollum + Hood + 16 for Middleton. They get a shot creator who can also play off-ball in CJ. Hood, if he returns to form was amazingily effecient hitting 49.5% of 3s this past season and would similarly good looks in Milwaukee.
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Re: CJ McCollum's value 

Post#32 » by BlazersBroncos » Tue Sep 8, 2020 9:05 pm

The more likely Bucks - Blazers deal would be something like McCollum + Hood + 16 for Middleton. They get a shot creator who can also play off-ball in CJ. Hood, if he returns to form was amazingily effecient hitting 49.5% of 3s this past season and would similarly good looks in Milwaukee.


This is much more likely, but to me looks alot like shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic. I am not sure the value difference is worth 16, but then again something has to be done. If GTJ can be a 15ppg guy with 40%+ 3PT shooting and Middleton fits well at SF, we are almost certainly a better team.

Most MIL fans hate this swap though, but to me the iso skills of CJ would help a ton on that squad. They need someone that can score a bucket from all 3 levels when the game is close, and while Giannis is insane he just isnt the best in that situation. You iso him and you can clog the paint whereas a guy like CJ who can dribble create would alleviate some of their issues IMO.

Its the type of deal that I could see happen at a 1-for-1 level if MIL gets bumped tonight. They absolutely will have to make a shakeup to keep Giannis happy.
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Re: CJ McCollum's value 

Post#33 » by Norm2953 » Wed Sep 9, 2020 3:36 am

DeBlazerRiddem wrote:
BlazersBroncos wrote:I am confident that Lillard could get Giannis to stay, he isnt as weird as Leonard.


That was my thought too, but also why I am doubtful that Milwaukee trades him. You never know what will happen but everything I've heard about Giannis sounds like he is very humble, down to earth, and the type of guy to happily make a career with one franchise.


So I would trade everything to pair him with Lillard.


Unlikely the Bucks would trade Giannis but I've always been in the camp that the only way I would advocate taking
on salary would be for a significant upgrade in talent. Whether that guy is Giannis, Emblid, etc any combination of
players, picks (except Dame) is fine. I would not take on salary for the Tobias Harris, Middleton's of the world if the
cost was CJ and multiple picks, players.
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Re: CJ McCollum's value 

Post#34 » by Village Idiot » Wed Sep 9, 2020 10:52 am

BlazersBroncos wrote:
The more likely Bucks - Blazers deal would be something like McCollum + Hood + 16 for Middleton. They get a shot creator who can also play off-ball in CJ. Hood, if he returns to form was amazingily effecient hitting 49.5% of 3s this past season and would similarly good looks in Milwaukee.


This is much more likely, but to me looks alot like shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic. I am not sure the value difference is worth 16, but then again something has to be done. If GTJ can be a 15ppg guy with 40%+ 3PT shooting and Middleton fits well at SF, we are almost certainly a better team.

Most MIL fans hate this swap though, but to me the iso skills of CJ would help a ton on that squad. They need someone that can score a bucket from all 3 levels when the game is close, and while Giannis is insane he just isnt the best in that situation. You iso him and you can clog the paint whereas a guy like CJ who can dribble create would alleviate some of their issues IMO.

Its the type of deal that I could see happen at a 1-for-1 level if MIL gets bumped tonight. They absolutely will have to make a shakeup to keep Giannis happy.
Both teams have gotten to the point where something needs to be done but with the Bucks it is very much a burning platform.

My proposal might be a bit of an overpay but for me the fit would be so good with Middleton at SF and GTJ at SG. Our defense would be much improved and we'd still have the TPE, MLE, BAE and all of our future picks to fill the gaps.
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Re: CJ McCollum's value 

Post#35 » by dunlop212 » Wed Sep 9, 2020 1:16 pm

Here is a Giannis trade that works.

PDX puts together a "mortgage the future" package involving CJ and draft picks for Giannis. Milwaukee does a similar package of Middleton and picks for Lillard. Add in whatever other players are needed to make the deals work.

Neither deal would ordinarily be acceptable to the team giving up the big star. But here is the key element. Both teams agree to a coin flip that determines which trade goes through.

BTW, IIRC both teams got their only championships because of coin flips (draft rights to Alcindor and Walton), so there is some sort of precedent.
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Re: CJ McCollum's value 

Post#36 » by BlazersBroncos » Wed Sep 9, 2020 4:31 pm

Here is a Giannis trade that works.

PDX puts together a "mortgage the future" package involving CJ and draft picks for Giannis. Milwaukee does a similar package of Middleton and picks for Lillard. Add in whatever other players are needed to make the deals work.

Neither deal would ordinarily be acceptable to the team giving up the big star. But here is the key element. Both teams agree to a coin flip that determines which trade goes through.

BTW, IIRC both teams got their only championships because of coin flips (draft rights to Alcindor and Walton), so there is some sort of precedent.


Adding Giannis and Middleton while moving Dame and CJ just puts us in the position that MIL is currently in. The whole point would be to team Giannis with Dame and give us the best 1/2 in the NBA.

This is all moot because MIL isnt trading Giannis. They ride it out, try to get CP3 and if he bolts, he bolts. You dont press eject on a generational talent as a small market team. You ride that plane until the fuel runs out.
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Re: CJ McCollum's value 

Post#37 » by dunlop212 » Wed Sep 9, 2020 4:49 pm

I should have been more clear in my post; the winner of the coin flip would end up with Lillard *and* Giannis. If Portland won the coin flip, it would end up with a core of Lillard, Giannis, and Nurk. If it lost, it would lose Lillard, but get Middleton, picks, and filler (an awful trade, but Milwaukee does just as poorly if it loses the coin toss).
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Re: CJ McCollum's value 

Post#38 » by BlazersBroncos » Wed Sep 9, 2020 5:55 pm

I should have been more clear in my post; the winner of the coin flip would end up with Lillard *and* Giannis. If Portland won the coin flip, it would end up with a core of Lillard, Giannis, and Nurk. If it lost, it would lose Lillard, but get Middleton, picks, and filler (an awful trade, but Milwaukee does just as poorly if it loses the coin toss).


O, well, um, that would be different.
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Re: CJ McCollum's value 

Post#39 » by JasonStern » Wed Sep 9, 2020 6:00 pm

The time to move CJ was back in 2017 when he had more value. Jimmy Butler was always my favorite target. McCollum and picks was, at that time, a far better package than Kris Dunn, Zach LaVine and Lauri Markkanen. But nobody else wanted to give up McCollum for Butler. And now we're sitting around saying how we're a Jimmy Butler away from contending.
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Re: CJ McCollum's value 

Post#40 » by HoopsFanAZ » Wed Sep 9, 2020 7:52 pm

As hopeful as I am, if CJ is moved ... and I believe Olshey is making a significant move this offseason ... I can see Middleton to Portland with his $4.5 million larger salary than CJ. 3&D for 3 level O of CJ. Blazers must sweeten with Simons and Little. Add in George Hill or RoLo and Portland sends Ariza (for one year savings for the Blazers)(Hill AND RoLo actually works, too).

If CJ goes, GTJ needs to stay. Hood at both SG and SF. Better D (and 3's) at SG and SF. This combination makes it worth it IMHO.

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